Israel-Palestine Drama Thread

[UNI88]

Far Far from the truth

Which part?

My guess is the "You do realize the Dem establishment, including the Whitehouse and congressional leadership, hates the far left as much as the right?" part.

MAGAt yahoos have trouble understanding that the Establishment hates rabble rousers. Just like establishment Republicans don't care for MAGAt yahoos and vice versa, establishment Democrats don't care for illiberal pseudo-progressives like AOChe. Rabble rousers upset the status quo and put their power and financial spigots at risk.

The opposing Democratic sides are better able to put aside their differences and look for common ground than the opposing Republican sides.

[kalm]

Which part?

My guess is the "You do realize the Dem establishment, including the Whitehouse and congressional leadership, hates the far left as much as the right?" part.

MAGAt yahoos have trouble understanding that the Establishment hates rabble rousers. Just like establishment Republicans don't care for MAGAt yahoos and vice versa, establishment Democrats don't care for illiberal pseudo-progressives like AOChe. Rabble rousers upset the status quo and put their power and financial spigots at risk.

The opposing Democratic sides are better able to put aside their differences and look for common ground than the opposing Republican sides.

Agreed.

[Gil Dobie]

Companywide email today, one of our co-workers were killed in Southern Lebanon on Friday.

[BDKJMU]

Omar and Rashida Taliban still at it

[SeattleGriz]

Be nice if somebody actually gave a shit about Biden. Egypt and Jordan told him to get lost. Israel's arm twisted by dumbass Blinken.

[kalm]

Be nice if somebody actually gave a shit about Biden. Egypt and Jordan told him to get lost. Israel's arm twisted by dumbass Blinken.

Ssshhh. Quiet. Adults are representing you abroad.

[GannonFan]

Be nice if somebody actually gave a shit about Biden. Egypt and Jordan told him to get lost. Israel's arm twisted by dumbass Blinken.

Ssshhh. Quiet. Adults are representing you abroad.

There's no doubt that moving on from Trump's method of foreign policy - bluster and buffoonery - is a good thing, and something we should never try again. However, foreign policy is not really something that Biden can point to as a strong point. From the chaotic withdraw from Afghanistan, to the inability to deter Russia from invading Ukraine, and now the Hamas initiated new round of fighting in the middle east (and however Iran is involved in this), Biden doesn't have a strong foreign policy record to run on. If anything, the testing of America's resolve by others has only grown under his watch. I don't think he's performed as poorly here as he has on the economy, but it's not something I'd tout either.

[BDKJMU]

Be nice if somebody actually gave a shit about Biden. Egypt and Jordan told him to get lost. Israel's arm twisted by dumbass Blinken.

Ssshhh. Quiet. Adults are representing you abroad.

What adults? Biden

“has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades.”

Robert Gates, Sec of Defense under Obama.

[BDKJMU]

Ssshhh. Quiet. Adults are representing you abroad.

There's no doubt that moving on from Trump's method of foreign policy - bluster and buffoonery - is a good thing, and something we should never try again. However, foreign policy is not really something that Biden can point to as a strong point. From the chaotic withdraw from Afghanistan, to the inability to deter Russia from invading Ukraine, and now the Hamas initiated new round of fighting in the middle east (and however Iran is involved in this), Biden doesn't have a strong foreign policy record to run on. If anything, the testing of America's resolve by others has only grown under his watch. I don't think he's performed as poorly here as he has on the economy, but it's not something I'd tout either.

Really? All that foreign policy bluster amd buffoonery led to:
the following Foreign policy accomplishments:
1.Renegotiating NAFTA (USMCA) United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement
2.Pulling out of Trans Pacific Partnership
3.Getting tough on China. A trade war is bad, but with China:
4.Nixing the terrible Iran Deal
5.Pulling out of the Paris Climate deal.
6.Getting deadbeat NATO countries to to pledge to pay more.
7.Pulling out of Syria.
8.Opening dialogue with North Korea.
9.Middle East Peace deal (Nobel Peace Prize nomination).
10.Balkans peace deal. (Nobel Peace Prize nomination).
11.Al Baghdadi, the founder of ISIS, killed.
12.Soleimani killed.
13.US Embassy moved to Jerusalem.
14.No New Wars- 1st in 40 years since Carter.
15.No Russian invasions of neighbors, unlike under GW Bush (Geogia/S Ossetia) Obama (Crimea, eastern Ukraine) , Biden (Ukraine).

What other POTUS has accomplished as much foreign policy wise in 4 years?

[kalm]

Ssshhh. Quiet. Adults are representing you abroad.

There's no doubt that moving on from Trump's method of foreign policy - bluster and buffoonery - is a good thing, and something we should never try again. However, foreign policy is not really something that Biden can point to as a strong point. From the chaotic withdraw from Afghanistan, to the inability to deter Russia from invading Ukraine, and now the Hamas initiated new round of fighting in the middle east (and however Iran is involved in this), Biden doesn't have a strong foreign policy record to run on. If anything, the testing of America's resolve by others has only grown under his watch. I don't think he's performed as poorly here as he has on the economy, but it's not something I'd tout either.

You’re blaming Joe for Russia and Hamas?

Interesting.

[GannonFan]

There's no doubt that moving on from Trump's method of foreign policy - bluster and buffoonery - is a good thing, and something we should never try again. However, foreign policy is not really something that Biden can point to as a strong point. From the chaotic withdraw from Afghanistan, to the inability to deter Russia from invading Ukraine, and now the Hamas initiated new round of fighting in the middle east (and however Iran is involved in this), Biden doesn't have a strong foreign policy record to run on. If anything, the testing of America's resolve by others has only grown under his watch. I don't think he's performed as poorly here as he has on the economy, but it's not something I'd tout either.

You’re blaming Joe for Russia and Hamas?

Interesting.

Joe certainly gets some of the blame for Russia. They hadn't mounted a major invasion of Ukraine until his Presidency and hadn't done anything large scale since they invaded Crimea (strangely, also when Biden was involved in the Executive branch). Sure, they had loads of troops, regular and militia, in eastern Ukraine for years, but they didn't feel they could invade proper until his Presidency, and specifically after he bungled the Afghanistan withdraw. He's done well recovering in how the US and others have helped Ukraine, but what would've really helped Ukraine was to deter Russia from invading in the first place. It's like giving up a bases clearing double but then trying to point to how they threw out the runner trying to stretch it to a triple. A lot of the damage is already done. Pretty sure Sun Tzu has some fancy saying about how winning the battle isn't to fight in the first place.

As for Hamas, it's not them, per se, but how he's been perceived by Iran, Hamas's sponsor. Hamas doesn't do that attack they did that prompted all of this without the blessing of Iran. Biden's been part of two administrations now that can't seem to understand what we're dealing with in Iran and has either inadvertently or even worse, consciously thought that we could buy their way back into good behavior. His standing in that part of the world clearly isn't all that respected given the pretty blunt cold shoulder he got in the region just in the past 24-48 hours.

There's a price to be paid for an inattentive and fairly limited capability President that we currently have with a clearly deteriorating and aging Joe Biden. Like I said, it's an improvement over the disaster that a second term of an angry Trump would have been, but let's not pretend that it's a huge improvement. You said adults are representing us abroad. You didn't mention if they were awake or still taking a nap.

[UNI88]

There's no doubt that moving on from Trump's method of foreign policy - bluster and buffoonery - is a good thing, and something we should never try again. However, foreign policy is not really something that Biden can point to as a strong point. From the chaotic withdraw from Afghanistan, to the inability to deter Russia from invading Ukraine, and now the Hamas initiated new round of fighting in the middle east (and however Iran is involved in this), Biden doesn't have a strong foreign policy record to run on. If anything, the testing of America's resolve by others has only grown under his watch. I don't think he's performed as poorly here as he has on the economy, but it's not something I'd tout either.

Really? All that foreign policy bluster amd buffoonery led to:
the following Foreign policy accomplishments:
1.Renegotiating NAFTA (USMCA) United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement
2.Pulling out of Trans Pacific Partnership
3.Getting tough on China. A trade war is bad, but with China:
4.Nixing the terrible Iran Deal
5.Pulling out of the Paris Climate deal.
6.Getting deadbeat NATO countries to to pledge to pay more.
7.Pulling out of Syria.
8.Opening dialogue with North Korea.
9.Middle East Peace deal (Nobel Peace Prize nomination).
10.Balkans peace deal. (Nobel Peace Prize nomination).
11.Al Baghdadi, the founder of ISIS, killed.
12.Soleimani killed.
13.US Embassy moved to Jerusalem.
14.No New Wars- 1st in 40 years since Carter.
15.No Russian invasions of neighbors, unlike under GW Bush (Geogia/S Ossetia) Obama (Crimea, eastern Ukraine) , Biden (Ukraine).

What other POTUS has accomplished as much foreign policy wise in 4 years?

Things that happened or didn’t happen on his watch aren’t necessarily trump accomplishments.

I wouldn’t call pulling out of the TPP a good thing.


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[GannonFan]

There's no doubt that moving on from Trump's method of foreign policy - bluster and buffoonery - is a good thing, and something we should never try again. However, foreign policy is not really something that Biden can point to as a strong point. From the chaotic withdraw from Afghanistan, to the inability to deter Russia from invading Ukraine, and now the Hamas initiated new round of fighting in the middle east (and however Iran is involved in this), Biden doesn't have a strong foreign policy record to run on. If anything, the testing of America's resolve by others has only grown under his watch. I don't think he's performed as poorly here as he has on the economy, but it's not something I'd tout either.

Really? All that foreign policy bluster amd buffoonery led to:
the following Foreign policy accomplishments:
1.Renegotiating NAFTA (USMCA) United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement eh, relatively minor deal, good that we did it but nto all that significant
2.Pulling out of Trans Pacific Partnership is pulling out better than getting a better deal? I understand that global trade feels like it's in retreat, but in reality we still need it
3.Getting tough on China. A trade war is bad, but with China: agreed, I think his bluster worked well here - people needed to be woken up to the danger that is China and I think he did tha
4.Nixing the terrible Iran Deal the damage was already done here - we had already given Iran most of their money without really doing anything to stop them from advancing their program. I agree that it was a terrible deal, but Trump doesn't get that much credit for backing out of a deal that had already been executed
5.Pulling out of the Paris Climate deal. Again, like the TPP thing, the better play would've been to make a better deal. His outcome was just to turn our backs and ignore it - but we do need some plan going forward on addressing climate change, even if it looks nothing like the Paris accord - he did the easy part while ignoring the real work
6.Getting deadbeat NATO countries to to pledge to pay more. Did he? Strangely, it wasn't until Biden's inability to deter Russia from invading Ukraine that this really started to happen. Trump had the right position - they of course need to pay a lot more - but I don't think he carried this one across the goal line
7.Pulling out of Syria. Aren't we still there? Reduced some, sure, but I thought we still have folks there. Could be wrong.
8.Opening dialogue with North Korea. Nothing came of this. I don't blame Trump, nothing will ever come of this because of the North Korean side. Not much of an accomplishment here.
9.Middle East Peace deal (Nobel Peace Prize nomination). I do give him the biggest credit here - I thought his bluster and bravado actually did move the needle here and certainly painted a better vision of a Middle East where the Arab nations came to peace with Israel - I wouldn't have thought it would work, but it definitely did. One of Biden's biggest failures is not following up on an actual genuine Trump vistory here, just because Dems couldn't stomach admitting it
10.Balkans peace deal. (Nobel Peace Prize nomination). a lesser version of the gains in the Middle East. He gets credit for this from me, but it was relatively minor in scope and not worth a line item here
11.Al Baghdadi, the founder of ISIS, killed. Yay, good thing. But I don't think Trump made a difference here. This was going to happen regardless who was in charge
12.Soleimani killed. I give Trump credit for this one. This was a big deal and it was something I'm not sure other Presidents would've green-lit.
13.US Embassy moved to Jerusalem. I give him credit for this, just like his other Middle East initiatives. He discarded the stalled other approaches and advanced the issue in the Middle East, perhaps like no other President would. Again, one of his signature acheivements
14.No New Wars- 1st in 40 years since Carter. Well, he was a one-termer, just like Carter, so...
15.No Russian invasions of neighbors, unlike under GW Bush (Geogia/S Ossetia) Obama (Crimea, eastern Ukraine) , Biden (Ukraine). I give him credit here - for all of the talk by folks on here that he was a Russian puppet, like I said, if he was he was the worst puppet ever. He did stand in the way of many things that Russia wanted to do - whether he did that on purpose or by accident I don't know, but to his credit, Russia didn't dare to make the moves they did once he left office

What other POTUS has accomplished as much foreign policy wise in 4 years?

My comments above in red.

[Bobcat]

Right, the minivan taliban isn’t trying to force their views on anyone.

MAGAt yahoos might talk the talk about small government and fiscal responsibility but they don’t walk the walk. They’re focused on forcing their morals on others, see book bans, attempting to punish people who go out of state for abortions, deconkis’ war on Disney, etc. they are just as bad as the wokehodists.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean as bad as you and your "everything goes" mentality? For someone who's cool with anything goes, you sure do whine about what others are doing a lot.

I agree, him and Kalm are just trolls spewing vitriol and hate. Real one trick ponies.

[Caribbean Hen]

You’re blaming Joe for Russia and Hamas?

Interesting.

Joe certainly gets some of the blame for Russia. They hadn't mounted a major invasion of Ukraine until his Presidency and hadn't done anything large scale since they invaded Crimea (strangely, also when Biden was involved in the Executive branch). Sure, they had loads of troops, regular and militia, in eastern Ukraine for years, but they didn't feel they could invade proper until his Presidency, and specifically after he bungled the Afghanistan withdraw. He's done well recovering in how the US and others have helped Ukraine, but what would've really helped Ukraine was to deter Russia from invading in the first place. It's like giving up a bases clearing double but then trying to point to how they threw out the runner trying to stretch it to a triple. A lot of the damage is already done. Pretty sure Sun Tzu has some fancy saying about how winning the battle isn't to fight in the first place.

As for Hamas, it's not them, per se, but how he's been perceived by Iran, Hamas's sponsor. Hamas doesn't do that attack they did that prompted all of this without the blessing of Iran. Biden's been part of two administrations now that can't seem to understand what we're dealing with in Iran and has either inadvertently or even worse, consciously thought that we could buy their way back into good behavior. His standing in that part of the world clearly isn't all that respected given the pretty blunt cold shoulder he got in the region just in the past 24-48 hours.

There's a price to be paid for an inattentive and fairly limited capability President that we currently have with a clearly deteriorating and aging Joe Biden. Like I said, it's an improvement over the disaster that a second term of an angry Trump would have been, but let's not pretend that it's a huge improvement. You said adults are representing us abroad. You didn't mention if they were awake or still taking a nap.

Joey Rotten and all of his bumbling advisors only needed to live in Puerto Rico for a year to have a much better concept on foreign policy… Iran is not a friend no matter how much allowance he gives them, kind of like his bad seed son … spoiled rotten

[kalm]

You mean as bad as you and your "everything goes" mentality? For someone who's cool with anything goes, you sure do whine about what others are doing a lot.

I agree, him and Kalm are just trolls spewing vitriol and hate. Real one trick ponies.

I don’t hate anyone. I genuinely am saddened and feel sorry for Trump supporters. I also see the strong evidence of Trump’s disregard for democracy, expertise, and common courtesy toward his fellow man.

He misunderstood most by his own supporters.

[Gil Dobie]

I agree, him and Kalm are just trolls spewing vitriol and hate. Real one trick ponies.

I don’t hate anyone. I genuinely am saddened and feel sorry for Trump supporters. I also see the strong evidence of Trump’s disregard for democracy, expertise, and common courtesy toward his fellow man.

He misunderstood most by his own supporters.

I'm sad for this generation and the political climate of today.

[kalm]

I don’t hate anyone. I genuinely am saddened and feel sorry for Trump supporters. I also see the strong evidence of Trump’s disregard for democracy, expertise, and common courtesy toward his fellow man.

He misunderstood most by his own supporters.

I'm sad for this generation and the political climate of today.

Me too Gil. And it was created by the Boomers and Gen X.

We have ourselves to blame. However, if you follow history, this current generation of young adults will overcome that climate and recreate a better world than we left them.

[houndawg]

You’re blaming Joe for Russia and Hamas?

Interesting.

Joe certainly gets some of the blame for Russia. They hadn't mounted a major invasion of Ukraine until his Presidency and hadn't done anything large scale since they invaded Crimea (strangely, also when Biden was involved in the Executive branch). Sure, they had loads of troops, regular and militia, in eastern Ukraine for years, but they didn't feel they could invade proper until his Presidency, and specifically after he bungled the Afghanistan withdraw. He's done well recovering in how the US and others have helped Ukraine, but what would've really helped Ukraine was to deter Russia from invading in the first place. It's like giving up a bases clearing double but then trying to point to how they threw out the runner trying to stretch it to a triple. A lot of the damage is already done. Pretty sure Sun Tzu has some fancy saying about how winning the battle isn't to fight in the first place.

As for Hamas, it's not them, per se, but how he's been perceived by Iran, Hamas's sponsor. Hamas doesn't do that attack they did that prompted all of this without the blessing of Iran. Biden's been part of two administrations now that can't seem to understand what we're dealing with in Iran and has either inadvertently or even worse, consciously thought that we could buy their way back into good behavior. His standing in that part of the world clearly isn't all that respected given the pretty blunt cold shoulder he got in the region just in the past 24-48 hours.

There's a price to be paid for an inattentive and fairly limited capability President that we currently have with a clearly deteriorating and aging Joe Biden. Like I said, it's an improvement over the disaster that a second term of an angry Trump would have been, but let's not pretend that it's a huge improvement. You said adults are representing us abroad. You didn't mention if they were awake or still taking a nap.

Yes, we learned that from the previous administration. Thank you for sharing.

[houndawg]

Joe certainly gets some of the blame for Russia. They hadn't mounted a major invasion of Ukraine until his Presidency and hadn't done anything large scale since they invaded Crimea (strangely, also when Biden was involved in the Executive branch). Sure, they had loads of troops, regular and militia, in eastern Ukraine for years, but they didn't feel they could invade proper until his Presidency, and specifically after he bungled the Afghanistan withdraw. He's done well recovering in how the US and others have helped Ukraine, but what would've really helped Ukraine was to deter Russia from invading in the first place. It's like giving up a bases clearing double but then trying to point to how they threw out the runner trying to stretch it to a triple. A lot of the damage is already done. Pretty sure Sun Tzu has some fancy saying about how winning the battle isn't to fight in the first place.

As for Hamas, it's not them, per se, but how he's been perceived by Iran, Hamas's sponsor. Hamas doesn't do that attack they did that prompted all of this without the blessing of Iran. Biden's been part of two administrations now that can't seem to understand what we're dealing with in Iran and has either inadvertently or even worse, consciously thought that we could buy their way back into good behavior. His standing in that part of the world clearly isn't all that respected given the pretty blunt cold shoulder he got in the region just in the past 24-48 hours.

There's a price to be paid for an inattentive and fairly limited capability President that we currently have with a clearly deteriorating and aging Joe Biden. Like I said, it's an improvement over the disaster that a second term of an angry Trump would have been, but let's not pretend that it's a huge improvement. You said adults are representing us abroad. You didn't mention if they were awake or still taking a nap.

Joey Rotten and all of his bumbling advisors only needed to live in Puerto Rico for a year to have a much better concept on foreign policy… Iran is not a friend no matter how much allowance he gives them, kind of like his bad seed son … spoiled rotten

Getting an early jump on stupid-for-breakfast today I see.

[Caribbean Hen]

Joey Rotten and all of his bumbling advisors only needed to live in Puerto Rico for a year to have a much better concept on foreign policy… Iran is not a friend no matter how much allowance he gives them, kind of like his bad seed son … spoiled rotten

Getting an early jump on stupid-for-breakfast today I see.

Just being honest

Sorry if it chaps your balls

[Caribbean Hen]

Be nice if somebody actually gave a shit about Biden. Egypt and Jordan told him to get lost. Israel's arm twisted by dumbass Blinken.

Ssshhh. Quiet. Adults are representing you abroad.

Name one

[Caribbean Hen]

I don’t hate anyone. I genuinely am saddened and feel sorry for Trump supporters. I also see the strong evidence of Trump’s disregard for democracy, expertise, and common courtesy toward his fellow man.

He misunderstood most by his own supporters.

I'm sad for this generation and the political climate of today.

Just turn off the news and stay off Twitter…. Life has never
Been better

[BDKJMU]

Biden WH is a clown show. Basically doxxed a bunch of Delta operators.
https://redstate.com/bobhoge/2023/10/19 ... s-n2165319

[UNI88]

I'm sad for this generation and the political climate of today.

Me too Gil. And it was created by the Boomers and Gen X.

We have ourselves to blame. However, if you follow history, this current generation of young adults will overcome that climate and recreate a better world than we left them.

Members of the Millenial and Gen Z generations have contributed to today's woes. They might mean well but they ignore history and can be just as rigid in their beliefs as Boomers and Gen X.