Culture Wars

[UNI88]

Why? What did Bill say that was wrong? Are you going to tell me that there aren't people who have oversimplified things and think Israel is to blame? My oldest blames Israel, never mentions Hamas' responsibility and he's a smart kid. The pseudo-progressive narrative that whites are colonial oppressors and that darker-skinned people are victims ignores history and oversimplifies reality.

We wouldn't be having this discussion if Hamas hadn't focused on terrorizing Israel and Jews and then doing what they did in October rather than building up Gaza for the benefit of the Palestinian people. Hamas lit the match.

And Israel's retaliation has killed 30 times the number of Israelis killed so far. I'm not necessarily opposed to revenge killing per se but this is going considerably beyond that, along with creating the next generation of terrorists who will see their life's calling as killing Jews.

Sure, if October was hamas' first terrorist attack on Israel. Unfortunately, it wasn't. hamas was founded in 1987 and carried out it's first suicide bombing in 1993. Since 1993 the cycle between hamas and Israel is roughly as follows:

1. hamas coordinates terrorist attack on Israeli citizens.
2. hamas terrorists flee to Gaza and hide among civilians.
3. Israel responds with force.
4. The force and casualties are considered excessive by the international community.
5. The international community pressures Israel into a ceasefire and peace.
6. hamas fundraising skyrockets.
7. the wealth of hamas leaders increases.
8. hamas buys more weapons and explosives and spends time and money training more terrorists.
9. Go back to #1

That is the cycle, over and fvcking over again. You know what the definition of insanity is. Israel would be insane to think that any peace with hamas will last and that more Israelis won't be killed. If what they're doing isn't right then what should they do to protect their citizens?

[Caribbean Hen]

And Israel's retaliation has killed 30 times the number of Israelis killed so far. I'm not necessarily opposed to revenge killing per se but this is going considerably beyond that, along with creating the next generation of terrorists who will see their life's calling as killing Jews.

Sure, if October was hamas' first terrorist attack on Israel. Unfortunately, it wasn't. hamas was founded in 1987 and carried out it's first suicide bombing in 1993. Since 1993 the cycle between hamas and Israel is roughly as follows:

1. hamas coordinates terrorist attack on Israeli citizens.
2. hamas terrorists flee to Gaza and hide among civilians.
3. Israel responds with force.
4. The force and casualties are considered excessive by the international community.
5. The international community pressures Israel into a ceasefire and peace.
6. hamas fundraising skyrockets.
7. the wealth of hamas leaders increases.
8. hamas buys more weapons and explosives and spends time and money training more terrorists.
9. Go back to #1

That is the cycle, over and fvcking over again. You know what the definition of insanity is. Israel would be insane to think that any peace with hamas will last and that more Israelis won't be killed. If what they're doing isn't right then what should they do to protect their citizens?

Agree

[kalm]

I have two college kids in the house who could argue circles around Bill on this one.

Why? What did Bill say that was wrong? Are you going to tell me that there aren't people who have oversimplified things and think Israel is to blame? My oldest blames Israel, never mentions Hamas' responsibility and he's a smart kid. The pseudo-progressive narrative that whites are colonial oppressors and that darker-skinned people are victims ignores history and oversimplifies reality.

We wouldn't be having this discussion if Hamas hadn't focused on terrorizing Israel and Jews and then doing what they did in October rather than building up Gaza for the benefit of the Palestinian people. Hamas lit the match.

White colonization and racism are facts. Killing innocent
children and non-combatants whether it’s Hamas or the IDF via sloppy operations at best or intentionally knowing the consequences at the worst is wrong. The Rafah incineration of refugees sent by Israel to a specific place being a grotesque example

My kids recognize the role Hamas has played. That doesn’t let Israel off the hook for its actions.

[houndawg]

And Israel's retaliation has killed 30 times the number of Israelis killed so far. I'm not necessarily opposed to revenge killing per se but this is going considerably beyond that, along with creating the next generation of terrorists who will see their life's calling as killing Jews.

Sure, if October was hamas' first terrorist attack on Israel. Unfortunately, it wasn't. hamas was founded in 1987 and carried out it's first suicide bombing in 1993. Since 1993 the cycle between hamas and Israel is roughly as follows:

1. hamas coordinates terrorist attack on Israeli citizens.
2. hamas terrorists flee to Gaza and hide among civilians.
3. Israel responds with force.
4. The force and casualties are considered excessive by the international community.
5. The international community pressures Israel into a ceasefire and peace.
6. hamas fundraising skyrockets.
7. the wealth of hamas leaders increases.
8. hamas buys more weapons and explosives and spends time and money training more terrorists.
9. Go back to #1

That is the cycle, over and fvcking over again. You know what the definition of insanity is. Israel would be insane to think that any peace with hamas will last and that more Israelis won't be killed. If what they're doing isn't right then what should they do to protect their citizens?

Peace with the Palestinians should be the aim not peace with Hamas.

I imagine that at the highest levels of Israel's government, the hostages are seen as a necessary sacrifice and already considered dead, regardless of what they say in public

[UNI88]

Sure, if October was hamas' first terrorist attack on Israel. Unfortunately, it wasn't. hamas was founded in 1987 and carried out it's first suicide bombing in 1993. Since 1993 the cycle between hamas and Israel is roughly as follows:

1. hamas coordinates terrorist attack on Israeli citizens.
2. hamas terrorists flee to Gaza and hide among civilians.
3. Israel responds with force.
4. The force and casualties are considered excessive by the international community.
5. The international community pressures Israel into a ceasefire and peace.
6. hamas fundraising skyrockets.
7. the wealth of hamas leaders increases.
8. hamas buys more weapons and explosives and spends time and money training more terrorists.
9. Go back to #1

That is the cycle, over and fvcking over again. You know what the definition of insanity is. Israel would be insane to think that any peace with hamas will last and that more Israelis won't be killed. If what they're doing isn't right then what should they do to protect their citizens?

Peace with the Palestinians should be the aim not peace with Hamas.

I imagine that at the highest levels of Israel's government, the hostages are seen as a necessary sacrifice and already considered dead, regardless of what they say in public

Can there be long-term peace with the Palestinians while hamas rules Gaza?

Will the Palestinians overthrow hamas? If yes, how long before it likely happens?

Should Israel sit around twiddling their thumbs and essentially ignoring hamas terrorist attacks waiting for it to happen?

[UNI88]

Why? What did Bill say that was wrong? Are you going to tell me that there aren't people who have oversimplified things and think Israel is to blame? My oldest blames Israel, never mentions Hamas' responsibility and he's a smart kid. The pseudo-progressive narrative that whites are colonial oppressors and that darker-skinned people are victims ignores history and oversimplifies reality.

We wouldn't be having this discussion if Hamas hadn't focused on terrorizing Israel and Jews and then doing what they did in October rather than building up Gaza for the benefit of the Palestinian people. Hamas lit the match.

White colonization and racism are facts. Killing innocent
children and non-combatants whether it’s Hamas or the IDF via sloppy operations at best or intentionally knowing the consequences at the worst is wrong. The Rafah incineration of refugees sent by Israel to a specific place being a grotesque example

My kids recognize the role Hamas has played. That doesn’t let Israel off the hook for its actions.

Colonization and racism are not unique to white people.

White people are not always the oppressors and brown people the victims.

Your kids recognize the role hamas has played but plenty of protesters do not. Those are the people Maher is criticizing.

Maher is absolutely correct that both extremes have anti-semitic elements.

[kalm]

White colonization and racism are facts. Killing innocent
children and non-combatants whether it’s Hamas or the IDF via sloppy operations at best or intentionally knowing the consequences at the worst is wrong. The Rafah incineration of refugees sent by Israel to a specific place being a grotesque example

My kids recognize the role Hamas has played. That doesn’t let Israel off the hook for its actions.

Colonization and racism are not unique to white people.

White people are not always the oppressors and brown people the victims.

Your kids recognize the role hamas has played but plenty of protesters do not. Those are the people Maher is criticizing.

Maher is absolutely correct that both extremes have anti-semitic elements.

No…they’re not but European colonization is prevalent. What percentage of protestors support Hamas?

The anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless.

Meanwhile…GAZA has no gas, no running water, hospitals have collapsed, starvation, no banking, massive inflation for even subsistence level living. The majority are under 18. Would you blame them for holding Israel accountable or is that simply more anti-semitism?

[Caribbean Hen]

Colonization and racism are not unique to white people.

White people are not always the oppressors and brown people the victims.

Your kids recognize the role hamas has played but plenty of protesters do not. Those are the people Maher is criticizing.

Maher is absolutely correct that both extremes have anti-semitic elements.

No…they’re not but European colonization is prevalent. What percentage of protestors support Hamas?

The anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless.

Meanwhile…GAZA has no gas, no running water, hospitals have collapsed, starvation, no banking, massive inflation for even subsistence level living. The majority are under 18. Would you blame them for holding Israel accountable or is that simply more anti-semitism?

Tough

Every Puerto Rican has experienced the same

[kalm]

No…they’re not but European colonization is prevalent. What percentage of protestors support Hamas?

The anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless.

Meanwhile…GAZA has no gas, no running water, hospitals have collapsed, starvation, no banking, massive inflation for even subsistence level living. The majority are under 18. Would you blame them for holding Israel accountable or is that simply more anti-semitism?

Tough

Every Puerto Rican has experienced the same

That doesn’t make it right.

[Caribbean Hen]

Tough

Every Puerto Rican has experienced the same

That doesn’t make it right.

There are no solutions
only trade offs

[UNI88]

Colonization and racism are not unique to white people.

White people are not always the oppressors and brown people the victims.

Your kids recognize the role hamas has played but plenty of protesters do not. Those are the people Maher is criticizing.

Maher is absolutely correct that both extremes have anti-semitic elements.

No…they’re not but European colonization is prevalent. What percentage of protestors support Hamas?

The anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless.

Meanwhile…GAZA has no gas, no running water, hospitals have collapsed, starvation, no banking, massive inflation for even subsistence level living. The majority are under 18. Would you blame them for holding Israel accountable or is that simply more anti-semitism?

European colonization was the most recent and was more widespread than past colorizations due to advancements in shipbuilding, navigation, etc. Should white people today be held responsible for what white people did in the past? If yes, what is the statue of limitations?

I have no idea what percentage of protesters support hamas. How many of the protesters that don't support hamas tell them to take down their pro-hamas signs or similar? Why doesn't silence is violence apply to speaking up to hamas supporters?

I don't see protesters raising a ruckus over Chinese colonization of Xinjiang or the South China Sea.

I don't condone what Israel is doing but I understand it.

Maybe the anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless but I don't think Maher was being lazy. The extreme left is just as guilty of anti-Semitism as the extreme right.

[Caribbean Hen]

No…they’re not but European colonization is prevalent. What percentage of protestors support Hamas?

The anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless.

Meanwhile…GAZA has no gas, no running water, hospitals have collapsed, starvation, no banking, massive inflation for even subsistence level living. The majority are under 18. Would you blame them for holding Israel accountable or is that simply more anti-semitism?

European colonization was the most recent and was more widespread than past colorizations due to advancements in shipbuilding, navigation, etc. Should white people today be held responsible for what white people did in the past? If yes, what is the statue of limitations?

I have no idea what percentage of protesters support hamas. How many of the protesters that don't support hamas tell them to take down their pro-hamas signs or similar? Why doesn't silence is violence apply to speaking up to hamas supporters?

I don't see protesters raising a ruckus over Chinese colonization of Xinjiang or the South China Sea.

I don't condone what Israel is doing but I understand it.

Maybe the anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless but I don't think Maher was being lazy. The extreme left is just as guilty of anti-Semitism as the extreme right.

“Seldom is the claim made that black Americans alive at this moment are worse off than if their ancestors had been left in Africa. Any attempt to make that case with statistics on income, life expectancy, or numerous other variables would collapse like a house of cards.”

The Soul Train

[kalm]

European colonization was the most recent and was more widespread than past colorizations due to advancements in shipbuilding, navigation, etc. Should white people today be held responsible for what white people did in the past? If yes, what is the statue of limitations?

I have no idea what percentage of protesters support hamas. How many of the protesters that don't support hamas tell them to take down their pro-hamas signs or similar? Why doesn't silence is violence apply to speaking up to hamas supporters?

I don't see protesters raising a ruckus over Chinese colonization of Xinjiang or the South China Sea.

I don't condone what Israel is doing but I understand it.

Maybe the anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless but I don't think Maher was being lazy. The extreme left is just as guilty of anti-Semitism as the extreme right.

“Seldom is the claim made that black Americans alive at this moment are worse off than if their ancestors had been left in Africa. Any attempt to make that case with statistics on income, life expectancy, or numerous other variables would collapse like a house of cards.”

The Soul Train

How does that excuse past slavery, and current racism and socio-economics?

[Caribbean Hen]

“Seldom is the claim made that black Americans alive at this moment are worse off than if their ancestors had been left in Africa. Any attempt to make that case with statistics on income, life expectancy, or numerous other variables would collapse like a house of cards.”

The Soul Train

How does that excuse past slavery, and current racism and socio-economics?

Why would you think it did ?

Just a talking point that nobody wants to talk about

[UNI88]

European colonization was the most recent and was more widespread than past colorizations due to advancements in shipbuilding, navigation, etc. Should white people today be held responsible for what white people did in the past? If yes, what is the statue of limitations?

I have no idea what percentage of protesters support hamas. How many of the protesters that don't support hamas tell them to take down their pro-hamas signs or similar? Why doesn't silence is violence apply to speaking up to hamas supporters?

I don't see protesters raising a ruckus over Chinese colonization of Xinjiang or the South China Sea.

I don't condone what Israel is doing but I understand it.

Maybe the anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless but I don't think Maher was being lazy. The extreme left is just as guilty of anti-Semitism as the extreme right.

“Seldom is the claim made that black Americans alive at this moment are worse off than if their ancestors had been left in Africa. Any attempt to make that case with statistics on income, life expectancy, or numerous other variables would collapse like a house of cards.”

The Soul Train

I wouldn't even attempt to make that case. I can make the case that black Americans are worse off than they would be if they hadn't been the victims of racist policies through at least the Civil Rights Act of 1968. Those policies inhibited their ability to get an education, suppressed their wages and made it almost impossible to build equity and wealth through homeownership. They didn't get the same opportunities to build generational wealth that they could have passed down to their children that white people did.

And I ask the people who now complain that diversity policies are discriminatory, where were your complaints when black Americans were routinely discriminated against in the past?

[Caribbean Hen]

“Seldom is the claim made that black Americans alive at this moment are worse off than if their ancestors had been left in Africa. Any attempt to make that case with statistics on income, life expectancy, or numerous other variables would collapse like a house of cards.”

The Soul Train

I wouldn't even attempt to make that case. I can make the case that black Americans are worse off than they would be if they hadn't been the victims of racist policies through at least the Civil Rights Act of 1968. Those policies inhibited their ability to get an education, suppressed their wages and made it almost impossible to build equity and wealth through homeownership. They didn't get the same opportunities to build generational wealth that they could have passed down to their children that white people did.

And I ask the people who now complain that diversity policies are discriminatory, where were your complaints when black Americans were routinely discriminated against in the past?

No it didn’t, you could make the case education was better for blacks before the 1960s, at least in certain areas

https://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

[Caribbean Hen]

No…they’re not but European colonization is prevalent. What percentage of protestors support Hamas?

The anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless.

Meanwhile…GAZA has no gas, no running water, hospitals have collapsed, starvation, no banking, massive inflation for even subsistence level living. The majority are under 18. Would you blame them for holding Israel accountable or is that simply more anti-semitism?

European colonization was the most recent and was more widespread than past colorizations due to advancements in shipbuilding, navigation, etc. Should white people today be held responsible for what white people did in the past? If yes, what is the statue of limitations?

I have no idea what percentage of protesters support hamas. How many of the protesters that don't support hamas tell them to take down their pro-hamas signs or similar? Why doesn't silence is violence apply to speaking up to hamas supporters?

I don't see protesters raising a ruckus over Chinese colonization of Xinjiang or the South China Sea.

I don't condone what Israel is doing but I understand it.

Maybe the anti-Semitic label is being lazily cast to the point of being rendered meaningless but I don't think Maher was being lazy. The extreme left is just as guilty of anti-Semitism as the extreme right.

https://www.hoover.org/research/anti-semitism-generic

Is Anti-Semitism Generic?

What do Jews have in common with Armenians, Ibos, and Marwaris? An historically similar pattern of economic and social roles—and of persecution. By Thomas Sowell.

[UNI88]

I wouldn't even attempt to make that case. I can make the case that black Americans are worse off than they would be if they hadn't been the victims of racist policies through at least the Civil Rights Act of 1968. Those policies inhibited their ability to get an education, suppressed their wages and made it almost impossible to build equity and wealth through homeownership. They didn't get the same opportunities to build generational wealth that they could have passed down to their children that white people did.

And I ask the people who now complain that diversity policies are discriminatory, where were your complaints when black Americans were routinely discriminated against in the past?

No it didn’t, you could make the case education was better for blacks before the 1960s, at least in certain areas

https://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

Where does that prove that education was as good for blacks as it was for whites?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You've railed on biden for putting his kids in private schools to avoid being put in schools that were integrated via busing but ignore the question of why busing would be needed if schools were equal.

And you ignore the difference in job opportunities/wages and discriminatory housing policies.

[Caribbean Hen]

No it didn’t, you could make the case education was better for blacks before the 1960s, at least in certain areas

https://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

Where does that prove that education was as good for blacks as it was for whites?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You've railed on biden for putting his kids in private schools to avoid being put in schools that were integrated via busing but ignore the question of why busing would be needed if schools were equal.

And you ignore the difference in job opportunities/wages and discriminatory housing policies.

The article gives several examples of success stories of black schools prior to the 1950s, and proves that the test scores were just as good as white schools in many cases.

Why are you arguing about it?

[Caribbean Hen]

No it didn’t, you could make the case education was better for blacks before the 1960s, at least in certain areas

https://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

Where does that prove that education was as good for blacks as it was for whites?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You've railed on biden for putting his kids in private schools to avoid being put in schools that were integrated via busing but ignore the question of why busing would be needed if schools were equal.

And you ignore the difference in job opportunities/wages and discriminatory housing policies.

Show me!
I don’t remember saying that

[UNI88]

Where does that prove that education was as good for blacks as it was for whites?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You've railed on biden for putting his kids in private schools to avoid being put in schools that were integrated via busing but ignore the question of why busing would be needed if schools were equal.

And you ignore the difference in job opportunities/wages and discriminatory housing policies.

Show me!
I don’t remember saying that

I must have mistaken you for another MAQA yahoo. My apologies for the faulty memory,

I don't read Sowell's letter the same way you do. Black Americans might have received a better education in the past than they do today but that doesn't mean that historically their education has been close to equal to that of white Americans on average.

[Caribbean Hen]

Show me!
I don’t remember saying that

I must have mistaken you for another MAQA yahoo. My apologies for the faulty memory,

I don't read Sowell's letter the same way you do. Black Americans might have received a better education in the past than they do today but that doesn't mean that historically their education has been close to equal to that of white Americans on average.

Of course it hasn’t been close to equal

My point was there used to be some really good inner city schools that produced successful students and competitive test scores

Big gov lover SnoopDawg basically showed his ugly hand when I said Harlem used to have some good schools…. Today, not even close …. All part of the modern day Dem urban Cotten field

[kalm]

I must have mistaken you for another MAQA yahoo. My apologies for the faulty memory,

I don't read Sowell's letter the same way you do. Black Americans might have received a better education in the past than they do today but that doesn't mean that historically their education has been close to equal to that of white Americans on average.

Of course it hasn’t been close to equal

My point was there used to be some really good inner city schools that produced successful students and competitive test scores

Big gov lover SnoopDawg basically showed his ugly hand when I said Harlem used to have some good schools…. Today, not even close …. All part of the modern day Dem urban Cotten field

Questions:

Do you personally know any public school administrators or teachers?

What metrics are you using for educational success?

[UNI88]

I must have mistaken you for another MAQA yahoo. My apologies for the faulty memory,

I don't read Sowell's letter the same way you do. Black Americans might have received a better education in the past than they do today but that doesn't mean that historically their education has been close to equal to that of white Americans on average.

Of course it hasn’t been close to equal

My point was there used to be some really good inner city schools that produced successful students and competitive test scores

Big gov lover SnoopDawg basically showed his ugly hand when I said Harlem used to have some good schools…. Today, not even close …. All part of the modern day Dem urban Cotten field

I won't argue that Democrats haven't damaged modern education. They have.

But it's not just Democrats - Bush's No Child Left Behind did some damage and zealous Republicans pushing voucher welfare programs and implementing standards developed by Prager and Moms For Fascism are gutting public education today.

There are still schools doing excellent work educating young Black students. I'm most familiar with Chicago so here are a few there:
- Young Magnet High School
- Jones College Prep High School
- Brooks College Prep Academy
- Hancock College Preparatory

[houndawg]

Peace with the Palestinians should be the aim not peace with Hamas.

I imagine that at the highest levels of Israel's government, the hostages are seen as a necessary sacrifice and already considered dead, regardless of what they say in public

Can there be long-term peace with the Palestinians while hamas rules Gaza?

Will the Palestinians overthrow hamas? If yes, how long before it likely happens?

Should Israel sit around twiddling their thumbs and essentially ignoring hamas terrorist attacks waiting for it to happen?

No chance, the tribal feud is thousands of years old