The Ukraine Crisis

[GannonFan]

18's the age for selective service in this country. I don't see this as a thing to really debate, there are far bigger things than the draft age of conscripts in Ukraine.

I wouldn’t want to tell those grieving Ukrainian mothers that

It never had to happen as at this point, it’s just a senseless slaughter that won’t change the outcome of this stalemate

War sucks, and it's mostly the young who fight the ways, meaning kids way too early in life have those lives ended way before they should.

With that said, all of this could have been avoided with Putin NOT invading the country. Russia wasn't at risk, nothing Russia was involved in was at risk. It was a land grab, pure and simple.

As for how it can end, I'll be the first to ask what is our endgame and what do folks here, Democrat or Republican want? Russia isn't leaving the occupied parts of the Ukraine, from the Crimea part stolen in 2014 to the eastern provinces stolen in the most recent invasion, unless we decided to put boots on the ground and push them out. Are we willing to do that? Who's offering up their kid to man the front lines of that effort to evict Russia from the illegally gotten gains of this invasion? I think there's certainly an argument that can be made to do that, but that's a huge political decision to make and we've vacillated on that for the past 4 years.

[kalm]

I wouldn’t want to tell those grieving Ukrainian mothers that

It never had to happen as at this point, it’s just a senseless slaughter that won’t change the outcome of this stalemate

War sucks, and it's mostly the young who fight the ways, meaning kids way too early in life have those lives ended way before they should.

With that said, all of this could have been avoided with Putin NOT invading the country. Russia wasn't at risk, nothing Russia was involved in was at risk. It was a land grab, pure and simple.

As for how it can end, I'll be the first to ask what is our endgame and what do folks here, Democrat or Republican want? Russia isn't leaving the occupied parts of the Ukraine, from the Crimea part stolen in 2014 to the eastern provinces stolen in the most recent invasion, unless we decided to put boots on the ground and push them out. Are we willing to do that? Who's offering up their kid to man the front lines of that effort to evict Russia from the illegally gotten gains of this invasion? I think there's certainly an argument that can be made to do that, but that's a huge political decision to make and we've vacillated on that for the past 4 years.

Europe.

[Caribbean Hen]

I wouldn’t want to tell those grieving Ukrainian mothers that

It never had to happen as at this point, it’s just a senseless slaughter that won’t change the outcome of this stalemate

War sucks, and it's mostly the young who fight the ways, meaning kids way too early in life have those lives ended way before they should.

With that said, all of this could have been avoided with Putin NOT invading the country. Russia wasn't at risk, nothing Russia was involved in was at risk. It was a land grab, pure and simple.

As for how it can end, I'll be the first to ask what is our endgame and what do folks here, Democrat or Republican want? Russia isn't leaving the occupied parts of the Ukraine, from the Crimea part stolen in 2014 to the eastern provinces stolen in the most recent invasion, unless we decided to put boots on the ground and push them out. Are we willing to do that? Who's offering up their kid to man the front lines of that effort to evict Russia from the illegally gotten gains of this invasion? I think there's certainly an argument that can be made to do that, but that's a huge political decision to make and we've vacillated on that for the past 4 years.

Really there are no good solutions, only trade offs

It’s most important to negotiate with all parties

[GannonFan]

War sucks, and it's mostly the young who fight the ways, meaning kids way too early in life have those lives ended way before they should.

With that said, all of this could have been avoided with Putin NOT invading the country. Russia wasn't at risk, nothing Russia was involved in was at risk. It was a land grab, pure and simple.

As for how it can end, I'll be the first to ask what is our endgame and what do folks here, Democrat or Republican want? Russia isn't leaving the occupied parts of the Ukraine, from the Crimea part stolen in 2014 to the eastern provinces stolen in the most recent invasion, unless we decided to put boots on the ground and push them out. Are we willing to do that? Who's offering up their kid to man the front lines of that effort to evict Russia from the illegally gotten gains of this invasion? I think there's certainly an argument that can be made to do that, but that's a huge political decision to make and we've vacillated on that for the past 4 years.

Europe.

Is Europe even capable of offensive military action? Heck, I'm not sure Europe could even attain air superiority. The easy part for Europe is the grandstanding and then the funding. The actual military part is where the difficulty would lie. Europe didn't fare that well back in the 90's when they tried to intervene in the Bosnian conflict - I don't think the past 20 years have made them any more effective.

[BDKJMU]

I wouldn’t want to tell those grieving Ukrainian mothers that

It never had to happen as at this point, it’s just a senseless slaughter that won’t change the outcome of this stalemate

You're correct it never had to happen. It happened because putin and russia invaded.

How would you propose this ends? A ceasefire and eventual peace agreement? Why should Zelensky and Ukraine trust putin this time? Should we list the agreements that putin has already broken? Will the US and Europe provide security agreements? Will putin accept them?

You act as if it's as simple as trump telling Zelensky that Ukraine has to agree to peace with putin and russia and then there will be peace and lives and money will be saved and we'll all sing kumbaya. It's not and pretending that it is plays into putin's hands. Do you want to be a russian stooge or think for yourself?

Which happened because the US & NATO.

1990/1991 under Bush Sr Gorbachev promised NATO wouldn’t expand to Russian border.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ders-early

1994 under Clinton Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty Ukraine told if gave up their thousands of nukes would be provided protection. How’d that turn out? Ukraine should have been told to keep at least some of their nukes.

2004 under Bush Jr NATO expanded to Russian border (Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania), making the 1990/1991 ‘not one inch eastward’ a lie and POKING THE RUSSIAN BEAR.

2014 under Obama Russia
-annexed Crimea
-invaded Eastern Ukraine
Obama does nothing, reneges on 1994 promise of nuclear nonproliferation treaty.

2022 under Biden Russia invades all of Ukraine.

2025 inherits the mess. All 5 POTUSes before Trump have blame in this. Yet I hear 100% of the criticism of the left at Trump, and nothing about the previous 5 POTUSes..

[UNI88]

You're correct it never had to happen. It happened because putin and russia invaded.

How would you propose this ends? A ceasefire and eventual peace agreement? Why should Zelensky and Ukraine trust putin this time? Should we list the agreements that putin has already broken? Will the US and Europe provide security agreements? Will putin accept them?

You act as if it's as simple as trump telling Zelensky that Ukraine has to agree to peace with putin and russia and then there will be peace and lives and money will be saved and we'll all sing kumbaya. It's not and pretending that it is plays into putin's hands. Do you want to be a russian stooge or think for yourself?

Which happened because the US & NATO.

1990/1991 under Bush Sr Gorbachev promised NATO wouldn’t expand to Russian border.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ders-early

1994 under Clinton Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty Ukraine told if gave up their thousands of nukes would be provided protection. How’d that turn out? Ukraine should have been told to keep at least some of their nukes.

2004 under Bush Jr NATO expanded to Russian border (Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania), making the 1990/1991 ‘not one inch eastward’ a lie and POKING THE RUSSIAN BEAR.

2014 under Obama Russia
-annexed Crimea
-invaded Eastern Ukraine
Obama does nothing, reneges on 1994 promise of nuclear nonproliferation treaty.

2022 under Biden Russia invades all of Ukraine.

2025 under Trump Russia negotiates with Trump, Ukraine isn't invited or allowed to participate. Trump wants to Ukraine to accept Russia keeping all of it's territorial gains, giving the US 50% of its mineral rights with NO security assurances.

2025 exasperates the mess by trying to force Ukraine to give up whatever leverage it has. All 6 POTUSes including Trump have blame in this. Yet I hear Trump blaming everyone but himself.

Talk about cherry picking points that support your agenda.

Who else told Ukraine they'd be safe if they gave up those nukes?
Russia’s lies about peace: 30 years of broken promises in international negotiations

Exposing the myth of Western betrayal of Russia over NATO’s eastern enlargement

‘Not one inch eastward’ – and what it really meant

Did NATO make a binding promise to refrain from eastward enlargement, only to make a clandestine volte-face?
...
To be clear, then, the talks in February 1990 were never about NATO expansion into Eastern Europe. They were confined to the specific issue of NATO’s defence in the wake of German unification – and the two issues should not be conflated. It is also important to remember that the Warsaw Pact was still in existence during these talks, so NATO enlargement was a moot point.
...
As soon as the new Russian Federation sank into political chaos in 1993 (giving rise to ultranationalist voices), the governments of Zwischeneuropa embarked on an active search for security, which inevitably meant ever closer ties with the ‘institutional West’. Many US politicians, believing in the inexorable ‘universalisation of Western liberal democracy’, greeted this search with glee. It is crucial to remember, however, that the push for NATO’s opening eastward above all came from the Eastern Europeans and Balts. Contrary to the claims of current Russian propagandists, NATO had no institutionally driven expansion plans aimed at ‘encircling’ Russia.

putin and russia not liking NATO expansion doesn't justify them invading Ukraine. It happened because putin wanted it to.

Keep pushing putin's agenda and you might need to register under FARA.

[SeattleGriz]

No. Not even close. Trump didn't get us into the war, Biden did. The fact you want more Ukrainians dead is telling.

biden didn't try to sell out Ukraine (our ally) to curry favor with a brutal dictator, trump did (which is the point of the comic). The fact you want the genocide of the Ukrainian people and identity is telling.

You're a broken record repeating the same bullshit FAKE NEWS over and over.

I'd suggest a trip to the minors (AGS) to up your game but that's too much of a MAQA yahoo echo chamber and is unlikely to help get you back to being able to contribute substantive points. Maybe just stop regurgitating MAQA yahoo echo chamber talking points and start thinking for yourself again.

How exactly is Trump trying to sell out Ukraine? This ought to be gold, especially coming from a guy who's fine with young Ukrainians being slaughtered.

[SeattleGriz]

Which happened because the US & NATO.

1990/1991 under Bush Sr Gorbachev promised NATO wouldn’t expand to Russian border.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ders-early

1994 under Clinton Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty Ukraine told if gave up their thousands of nukes would be provided protection. How’d that turn out? Ukraine should have been told to keep at least some of their nukes.

2004 under Bush Jr NATO expanded to Russian border (Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania), making the 1990/1991 ‘not one inch eastward’ a lie and POKING THE RUSSIAN BEAR.

2014 under Obama Russia
-annexed Crimea
-invaded Eastern Ukraine
Obama does nothing, reneges on 1994 promise of nuclear nonproliferation treaty.

2022 under Biden Russia invades all of Ukraine.

2025 under Trump Russia negotiates with Trump, Ukraine isn't invited or allowed to participate. Trump wants to Ukraine to accept Russia keeping all of it's territorial gains, giving the US 50% of its mineral rights with NO security assurances.

2025 exasperates the mess by trying to force Ukraine to give up whatever leverage it has. All 6 POTUSes including Trump have blame in this. Yet I hear Trump blaming everyone but himself.

Talk about cherry picking points that support your agenda.

Who else told Ukraine they'd be safe if they gave up those nukes?
Russia’s lies about peace: 30 years of broken promises in international negotiations

Exposing the myth of Western betrayal of Russia over NATO’s eastern enlargement

‘Not one inch eastward’ – and what it really meant

Did NATO make a binding promise to refrain from eastward enlargement, only to make a clandestine volte-face?
...
To be clear, then, the talks in February 1990 were never about NATO expansion into Eastern Europe. They were confined to the specific issue of NATO’s defence in the wake of German unification – and the two issues should not be conflated. It is also important to remember that the Warsaw Pact was still in existence during these talks, so NATO enlargement was a moot point.
...
As soon as the new Russian Federation sank into political chaos in 1993 (giving rise to ultranationalist voices), the governments of Zwischeneuropa embarked on an active search for security, which inevitably meant ever closer ties with the ‘institutional West’. Many US politicians, believing in the inexorable ‘universalisation of Western liberal democracy’, greeted this search with glee. It is crucial to remember, however, that the push for NATO’s opening eastward above all came from the Eastern Europeans and Balts. Contrary to the claims of current Russian propagandists, NATO had no institutionally driven expansion plans aimed at ‘encircling’ Russia.

putin and russia not liking NATO expansion doesn't justify them invading Ukraine. It happened because putin wanted it to.

Keep pushing putin's agenda and you might need to register under FARA.

You need to read up on the Budapest memorandum. The US trampled all over that agreement well before Russia ignored it. Also, Ukraine had NO control over those nukes, just corruptiin trying to sell them. Acting like Ukraine gave up defensive capabilities.

[kalm]

[Caribbean Hen]

Klam endlessly supports continuing the murder of young innocent men in the Ukraine and Russia

pat yourself on the back Benito

[kalm]

Our newest ally.

Local officials from Russia’s ruling party have caused controversy by presenting mothers of soldiers killed in Ukraine with gifts of meat grinders, an appliance widely used to describe Russia’s brutal tactics on the front line.

The United Russia party in the northern Murmansk region posted photos on social media showing officials smiling as they visited bereaved mothers with gifts of flowers and boxed meat grinders for International Women’s Day on Saturday, which is widely celebrated in Russia.

The post included a message thanking the “dear mums” for their “strength of spirit and the love you put into bringing up your sons”. It said the gifts were the initiative of the women’s wing of the party.

Some online commentators called the gesture as “shameful” and “inappropriate”.

Russia is often accused of throwing its frontline soldiers into a “meat grinder” with scant regard for their lives.

The Russian word for meat grinder, myasorubka, has the same double meaning as in English.

https://fortune.com/2025/03/08/vladimir ... s-ukraine/

[SeattleGriz]

The Atlantic. Holy shit.

[SeattleGriz]

Our newest ally.

Local officials from Russia’s ruling party have caused controversy by presenting mothers of soldiers killed in Ukraine with gifts of meat grinders, an appliance widely used to describe Russia’s brutal tactics on the front line.

The United Russia party in the northern Murmansk region posted photos on social media showing officials smiling as they visited bereaved mothers with gifts of flowers and boxed meat grinders for International Women’s Day on Saturday, which is widely celebrated in Russia.

The post included a message thanking the “dear mums” for their “strength of spirit and the love you put into bringing up your sons”. It said the gifts were the initiative of the women’s wing of the party.

Some online commentators called the gesture as “shameful” and “inappropriate”.

Russia is often accused of throwing its frontline soldiers into a “meat grinder” with scant regard for their lives.

The Russian word for meat grinder, myasorubka, has the same double meaning as in English.

https://fortune.com/2025/03/08/vladimir ... s-ukraine/

Got any better sources than this click bait?

You fall for every stupid thing in the world.

[UNI88]

Russia’s Peace Demands on Ukraine Have Not Budged

Trump in his address to Congress this week said Russia has sent “strong signals that they are ready for peace.” Is that true?
Not really. The Kremlin has not budged from its maximal demands for ending the conflict, which Russian President Vladimir Putin laid out last June and include:

• no NATO membership for Ukraine;
• Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian provinces (even though Russia does not physically control all the territory of three of them);
• Ukraine’s demilitarization and denazification (code for the installation of a pro-Russia puppet in Kyiv); and
• the lifting of anti-Russia sanctions.

...
Trump has described a deal on Ukrainian minerals as tantamount to a security guarantee because Russia would not be likely to threaten U.S. business interests. Is that valid?

There are at least two problems with this idea. First, how much private business interest would there be in Ukraine? Before the full-scale invasion, Ukraine had a reputation for being one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. U.S. foreign direct investment was small. Now, U.S. businesses would be looking at a country devastated by war and still struggling with corruption. Moreover, Ukraine’s mineral wealth is a matter of great speculation, and a sizable portion is located in Russia-occupied territory. These circumstances hardly amount to an attractive investment environment.

Second, Ukraine occupies a special place in the Russian political imagination. Kievan Rus is the source of modern Russian statehood. Ukrainian territory has served as a critical buffer zone against foreign enemies for centuries, as well as a source of Russian power in the past 150 years. Russians consider their preeminence in Ukraine as essential to their security and prosperity. Reasserting or sustaining Russia’s influence in Ukraine would override any concern about threatening U.S. business in Ukraine, especially when U.S. administrations, including Trump’s, have made it clear for decades that the United States is not prepared to go to war against Russia to defend Ukraine. A U.S. business presence in Ukraine in 2014 did nothing to dissuade Russia from seizing Crimea and instigating rebellion in the Donbas.

[kalm]

Our newest ally.



https://fortune.com/2025/03/08/vladimir ... s-ukraine/

Got any better sources than this click bait?

You fall for every stupid thing in the world.

It was originally reported in the telegraph.

Wah! Everything that doesn’t agree with me, I don’t like! Wah!

[SeattleGriz]

Russia’s Peace Demands on Ukraine Have Not Budged

Trump in his address to Congress this week said Russia has sent “strong signals that they are ready for peace.” Is that true?
Not really. The Kremlin has not budged from its maximal demands for ending the conflict, which Russian President Vladimir Putin laid out last June and include:

• no NATO membership for Ukraine;
• Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian provinces (even though Russia does not physically control all the territory of three of them);
• Ukraine’s demilitarization and denazification (code for the installation of a pro-Russia puppet in Kyiv); and
• the lifting of anti-Russia sanctions.

...
Trump has described a deal on Ukrainian minerals as tantamount to a security guarantee because Russia would not be likely to threaten U.S. business interests. Is that valid?

There are at least two problems with this idea. First, how much private business interest would there be in Ukraine? Before the full-scale invasion, Ukraine had a reputation for being one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. U.S. foreign direct investment was small. Now, U.S. businesses would be looking at a country devastated by war and still struggling with corruption. Moreover, Ukraine’s mineral wealth is a matter of great speculation, and a sizable portion is located in Russia-occupied territory. These circumstances hardly amount to an attractive investment environment.

Second, Ukraine occupies a special place in the Russian political imagination. Kievan Rus is the source of modern Russian statehood. Ukrainian territory has served as a critical buffer zone against foreign enemies for centuries, as well as a source of Russian power in the past 150 years. Russians consider their preeminence in Ukraine as essential to their security and prosperity. Reasserting or sustaining Russia’s influence in Ukraine would override any concern about threatening U.S. business in Ukraine, especially when U.S. administrations, including Trump’s, have made it clear for decades that the United States is not prepared to go to war against Russia to defend Ukraine. A U.S. business presence in Ukraine in 2014 did nothing to dissuade Russia from seizing Crimea and instigating rebellion in the Donbas.

This lost all credibility at the bolded part. It's been explained many times the demilitarization is the removal of all NATO capabilities and the denazification is the removal of mercenaries.

This isn't hard, but hey, you don't have any skin in the game so you can just keep typing bullshit from a keyboard.

[UNI88]

Got any better sources than this click bait?

You fall for every stupid thing in the world.

It was originally reported in the telegraph.

Wah! Everything that doesn’t agree me, I don’t like! Wah!

Here's a New York Post story ...

Russian ruling party faces backlash for gifting meat grinder to mother of soldier killed in Ukraine war

Members of Russia’s ruling party are under fire after bizarrely gifting a meat grinder to the mother of a soldier killed in Ukraine as part of an International Women’s Day campaign, according to reports.

[UNI88]

Russia’s Economic Gamble: The Hidden Costs of War-Driven Growth

The storm of government spending is sustaining the current state of affairs, but it cannot address the chronic problems that have long plagued the Russian economy. We are witnessing an irreversible turn toward economic stagnation.

Since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the Russian economy has repeatedly defied expectations. Predictions of a double-digit contraction never materialized. On the contrary, GDP grew by 3.6 percent in 2023 and an expected 4 percent in 2024: rates that both developed and developing nations might envy. Key indicators like GDP growth, household income, and low unemployment have become President Vladimir Putin’s trump cards. He brandishes them to the West as proof that sanctions are ineffective, and presents them to partners in Asia and Africa as evidence of Russia’s sound economic policies and the resilience of its development model. Chinese officials are apparently convinced, having reportedly established an interagency commission to study Russia’s economic model.

Yet this image of resilience is deceptive. Over the past two years, Russia’s economy has operated like a marathoner on fiscal steroids—and now those steroids are wearing off. Growth is slowing, key sectors are cooling, and the arguments underpinning Putin’s claims of economic “invulnerability” are unraveling. The Kremlin faces the mounting challenge of sustaining the war effort and funding social and infrastructure programs. Simultaneously maintaining low inflation and a stable ruble is proving increasingly unsustainable. Without significant course corrections, the current momentum may falter within a year. By 2026–2027, the fiscal and social challenges now on the horizon could fully metastasize into a crisis.
...
Russia’s economic future beyond 2025 looks troubling. On the surface, economic growth and low unemployment create an illusion of stability for the country’s new economic model. However, this model is already confronting three fundamental limitations: a shortage of labor, exhausted production capacities, and stagnating export revenues due to sanctions. The storm of government spending is sustaining the current state of affairs, but it cannot address the chronic problems that have long plagued the Russian economy.

[kalm]

Russia’s Peace Demands on Ukraine Have Not Budged

This lost all credibility at the bolded part. It's been explained many times the demilitarization is the removal of all NATO capabilities and the denazification is the removal of mercenaries.

This isn't hard, but hey, you don't have any skin in the game so you can just keep typing bullshit from a keyboard.

You do realize all you’re doing is re-stating old Russian justifications?

Putin has done a damn good job of insuring NATO or, in the case we abandon NATO, a unified Europe protects Ukraine going forward.

He remains a master strategist.

[UNI88]

This lost all credibility at the bolded part. It's been explained many times the demilitarization is the removal of all NATO capabilities and the denazification is the removal of mercenaries.

This isn't hard, but hey, you don't have any skin in the game so you can just keep typing bullshit from a keyboard.

You do realize all you’re doing is re-stating old Russian justifications?

Putin has done a damn good job of insuring NATO or, in the case we abandon NATO, a unified Europe protects Ukraine going forward.

He remains a master strategist.

Also from that article ...

Russian officials understand that the U.S.-Ukraine relationship is central to any negotiations to end the Russia-Ukraine war. They are counting on Washington to break Kyiv’s will to fight and compel it to make major concessions to Moscow. Yet Russian officials believe a total breakdown in U.S.-Ukraine relations would only complicate the situation and bring the Europeans into the process in an unhelpful way as they try to bolster support for Ukraine’s anti-Russia resistance.

[SeattleGriz]

This lost all credibility at the bolded part. It's been explained many times the demilitarization is the removal of all NATO capabilities and the denazification is the removal of mercenaries.

This isn't hard, but hey, you don't have any skin in the game so you can just keep typing bullshit from a keyboard.

You do realize all you’re doing is re-stating old Russian justifications?

Putin has done a damn good job of insuring NATO or, in the case we abandon NATO, a unified Europe protects Ukraine going forward.

He remains a master strategist.

It's called clarification. The article, being disingenuous, tried to say Putin's statement of demilitarization and denazification means he wants a compliant leader in Ukraine. You have to be a retard at the highest levels to misconstrue those statements this far into the SMO.

Ukraine is finished bro. People like you have ensured that. Unified Europe couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.

[UNI88]

Zelensky says ready to quit if it brings peace, pushes back on US demand for Ukrainian minerals

Asked at a press conference Sunday if he was ready to quit if it ensures peace for Ukraine, Zelensky said: “If (it guarantees) peace for Ukraine, if you really need me to resign, I am ready. I can exchange it for NATO.”
...
Zelensky on Sunday also pushed back against Trump’s demand for a $500 billion share of Ukraine’s deposits of rare earths and other minerals as part of a draft “deal” Trump said would reflect the amount of aid the US has provided to Ukraine during its war with Russia.

[UNI88]

EU leaders agree on defence surge, support Zelenskiy after US aid freeze

"Today we have shown that the European Union is rising to the challenge, building the Europe of defence and standing with Ukraine shoulder to shoulder," the chairman of the meeting Antonio Costa told reporters.
...
"Europe as a whole is truly capable of winning any military, financial, economic confrontation with Russia - we are simply stronger," Tusk said.

French President Emmanuel Macron, who on Wednesday had told French voters that Russia was a threat to France and Europe, said all this was just a first step. "Whatever happens in Ukraine, we need to build autonomous defence capacities in Europe," he said after the EU summit.

[kalm]

You do realize all you’re doing is re-stating old Russian justifications?

Putin has done a damn good job of insuring NATO or, in the case we abandon NATO, a unified Europe protects Ukraine going forward.

He remains a master strategist.

It's called clarification. The article, being disingenuous, tried to say Putin's statement of demilitarization and denazification means he wants a compliant leader in Ukraine. You have to be a retard at the highest levels to misconstrue those statements this far into the SMO.

Ukraine is finished bro. People like you have ensured that. Unified Europe couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.

Oh. Is that what it is?

Russia has been calling for free and fair elections this week! On account of they are just really into democracy and other nation’s autonomy!

[SeattleGriz]

It's called clarification. The article, being disingenuous, tried to say Putin's statement of demilitarization and denazification means he wants a compliant leader in Ukraine. You have to be a retard at the highest levels to misconstrue those statements this far into the SMO.

Ukraine is finished bro. People like you have ensured that. Unified Europe couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.

Oh. Is that what it is?

Russia has been calling for free and fair elections this week! On account of they are just really into democracy and other nation’s autonomy!

Well apparently you haven't been paying attention if you again needed clarification. We've talked this issue ad nauseum on this board, but all of a sudden you think the CFR has sleuthed out a truth out of thin air.