Gore Shuts Down Disseneter

[Cleets Part 2]

I believe I'll have another drink.

Um... it's a little early for that mister..!!!

[D1B]

I know you do Cleets. I would not get your information from Baldy or Z though for the above reasons. These are the same idiots who would have been convinced that smoking is healthy back in the day and would have been numbers 2 and 3 in line to put a bullet through the the head of Martin Luther King or one of the Kennedy's.

With little exception the overwheming concensus of the world wide scientific community, in varying degrees, support a notion that climate change, recent climate change is a result of the endeavors of man.

Every reputable scientific journal, every nation on earth (except us of course) you name it.

According to the conk twins - the world has been duped by professors in tweed suits who are scamming the united states government for research grants.

D1b sir...
I believe the Global Climate is changing
I believe there are potentially grave consequences for most mammals due to this change

I am not certain humans have directly effected this change

I believe there are massive misinformation campaigns on both sides of the issue
I believe both sides have profited from the misinformation

Not saying your wrong but elaborate on the misinformation campaigns of GW scientific community. Thanks

This is the crucial differnce between the two sides: The deniers money almost solely goes towards media campaigns and lobbying - not scientific research.

[AZGrizFan]

Not saying your wrong but elaborate on the misinformation campaigns of GW scientific community. Thanks

This is the crucial differnce between the two sides: The deniers money almost solely goes towards media campaigns and lobbying - not scientific research.

1) cherry-picking data that fits their objective
2) designing tests to get desired result
3) going into testing with a preconceived notion of the desired outcome
4) Ignoring data that doesn't fit their pre-conceived idea
5) Inability to explain anomalies and shouting down dissenters

[D1B]

Not saying your wrong but elaborate on the misinformation campaigns of GW scientific community. Thanks

This is the crucial differnce between the two sides: The deniers money almost solely goes towards media campaigns and lobbying - not scientific research.

1) cherry-picking data that fits their objective
2) designing tests to get desired result
3) going into testing with a preconceived notion of the desired outcome
4) Ignoring data that doesn't fit their pre-conceived idea
5) Inability to explain anomalies and shouting down dissenters

Z, who specifically is doing this?

Where is the money coming from to support this world wide hoax on NOAAC, National Geographic, Scientific American, countless other scientific guilds and societies, and all the major countries of the world save for a couple with business interests?

Who is making all the money? and how much?

[Cleets Part 2]

D1b sir...
I believe the Global Climate is changing
I believe there are potentially grave consequences for most mammals due to this change

I am not certain humans have directly effected this change

I believe there are massive misinformation campaigns on both sides of the issue
I believe both sides have profited from the misinformation

Not saying your wrong but elaborate on the misinformation campaigns of GW scientific community. Thanks

This is the crucial differnce between the two sides: The deniers money almost solely goes towards media campaigns and lobbying - not scientific research.

We can agree on that...
Exxon Mobil is in the business of selling oil not the search for the truth it's fairly easy to discern their motives - this should be obvious to anyone... what is not so obvious is the money / grants / Research funds in the Global Warming camp...

back in 1990 I worked on a project with an organization called NREL and our team was assisting in Hydrogen Storage Techniques for Fuel Cell Power Systems... The money coming in from the DOE and investment groups and research grants was something that could hardly believed had I not seen it for myself...

Although I do not personally know, nor am I involved directly in any Global Climate studies or research grants I can tell you based on the government link Baldy provided - it smacks of FREE MONEY...
Why do I say this: Because as my team worked on Storage we weren't really players but the Development guys we worked with were constantly telling stories about how they were "encouraged" to come to certain conclusions about the usability and potential of Hydrogen Fuel cells...

why were they encouraged to come to certain conclusions regardless of actual findings - because there was more money to be had if they "fostered false hope"

[AZGrizFan]

Although I do not personally know, nor am I involved directly in any Global Climate studies or research grants I can tell you based on the government link Baldy provided - it smacks of FREE MONEY...
Why do I say this: Because as my team worked on Storage we weren't really players but the Development guys we worked with were constantly telling stories about how they were "encouraged" to come to certain conclusions about the usability and potential of Hydrogen Fuel cells...

why were they encouraged to come to certain conclusions regardless of actual findings - because there was more money to be had if they "fostered false hope"

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!!

[Cleets Part 2]

Although I do not personally know, nor am I involved directly in any Global Climate studies or research grants I can tell you based on the government link Baldy provided - it smacks of FREE MONEY...
Why do I say this: Because as my team worked on Storage we weren't really players but the Development guys we worked with were constantly telling stories about how they were "encouraged" to come to certain conclusions about the usability and potential of Hydrogen Fuel cells...

why were they encouraged to come to certain conclusions regardless of actual findings - because there was more money to be had if they "fostered false hope"

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!!

Talk about your classic case of CHERRY PICKING DATA..!!! (I feel used)
Why didn't you highlight the part about Exxon Mobile

[AZGrizFan]

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!!

Talk about your classic case of CHERRY PICKING DATA..!!! (I feel used)
Why didn't you highlight the part about Exxon Mobile

Because everybody KNOWS what Exxon Mobil's agenda is. The GW crowd play as if they HAVE no agenda, and they're just benevolent scientists out to find the "pure" answer....and they've been exposed as frauds.

[D1B]

Not saying your wrong but elaborate on the misinformation campaigns of GW scientific community. Thanks

This is the crucial differnce between the two sides: The deniers money almost solely goes towards media campaigns and lobbying - not scientific research.

We can agree on that...
Exxon Mobil is in the business of selling oil not the search for the truth it's fairly easy to discern their motives - this should be obvious to anyone... what is not so obvious is the money / grants / Research funds in the Global Warming camp...

back in 1990 I worked on a project with an organization called NREL and our team was assisting in Hydrogen Storage Techniques for Fuel Cell Power Systems... The money coming in from the DOE and investment groups and research grants was something that could hardly believed had I not seen it for myself...

Although I do not personally know, nor am I involved directly in any Global Climate studies or research grants I can tell you based on the government link Baldy provided - it smacks of FREE MONEY...
Why do I say this: Because as my team worked on Storage we weren't really players but the Development guys we worked with were constantly telling stories about how they were "encouraged" to come to certain conclusions about the usability and potential of Hydrogen Fuel cells...

why were they encouraged to come to certain conclusions regardless of actual findings - because there was more money to be had if they "fostered false hope"

No doubt it happens. The people you worked with on the Hydrogen Cell project are risking their credibility for government grants! Wow, idiots. Anyway, I have no doubt this happens. However this does not mean the well is poisioned - which is Exxon/Conk 101

[D1B]

Talk about your classic case of CHERRY PICKING DATA..!!! (I feel used)
Why didn't you highlight the part about Exxon Mobile

Because everybody KNOWS what Exxon Mobil's agenda is. The GW crowd play as if they HAVE no agenda, and they're just benevolent scientists out to find the "pure" answer....and they've been exposed as frauds.

Z, who (scientists) specifically are the frauds? Please elaborate and be specific about the nature of their fraud. Thanks.

[Cleets Part 2]

We can agree on that...
Exxon Mobil is in the business of selling oil not the search for the truth it's fairly easy to discern their motives - this should be obvious to anyone... what is not so obvious is the money / grants / Research funds in the Global Warming camp...

back in 1990 I worked on a project with an organization called NREL and our team was assisting in Hydrogen Storage Techniques for Fuel Cell Power Systems... The money coming in from the DOE and investment groups and research grants was something that could hardly believed had I not seen it for myself...

Although I do not personally know, nor am I involved directly in any Global Climate studies or research grants I can tell you based on the government link Baldy provided - it smacks of FREE MONEY...
Why do I say this: Because as my team worked on Storage we weren't really players but the Development guys we worked with were constantly telling stories about how they were "encouraged" to come to certain conclusions about the usability and potential of Hydrogen Fuel cells...

why were they encouraged to come to certain conclusions regardless of actual findings - because there was more money to be had if they "fostered false hope"

No doubt it happens. The people you worked with on the Hydrogen Cell project are risking their credibility for government grants! Wow, idiots. Anyway, I have no doubt this happens. However this does not mean the well is poisioned - which is Exxon/Conk 101

Oh No doubt, SPOT ON D1B...
I don't necessarily agree with AZGF - I just for once happen to not completely disagree with him...

BUT..!!!

Global Warming International Spokes person and figurehead AL Gore has lied and profited greatly - much to his everlasting shame (in my opinion) and has besmirched the cause - also I believe that the temptation for great sums of money (see Baldy Gov. link) is too overwhelming and to easy to pass up...

Scientists Researchers and Advanced Technicians are humans first - scientists second - fraud in the scientific community is no more rare than fraud in the business community - we can't in one breath (as I often do) call out the capitalist corporate greed and corruption as the fall of man and then pretend that the men on our side are somehow not corruptable (sp) and above shame or seediness

it's a tough position for me - as I have worked in the sciences for the past 2 decades - but on this one I have to stand back and say on this issue: Both sides are kinda full of sh!t...

[D1B]

No doubt it happens. The people you worked with on the Hydrogen Cell project are risking their credibility for government grants! Wow, idiots. Anyway, I have no doubt this happens. However this does not mean the well is poisioned - which is Exxon/Conk 101

Oh No doubt, SPOT ON D1B...
I don't necessarily agree with AZGF - I just for once happen to not completely disagree with him...

BUT..!!!

Global Warming International Spokes person and figurehead AL Gore has lied and profited greatly - much to his everlasting shame (in my opinion) and has besmirched the cause - also I believe that the temptation for great sums of money (see Baldy Gov. link) is too overwhelming and to easy to pass up...

Scientists Researchers and Advanced Technicians are humans first - scientists second - fraud in the scientific community is no more rare than fraud in the business community - we can't in one breath (as I often do) call out the capitalist corporate greed and corruption as the fall of man and then pretend that the men on our side are somehow not corruptable (sp) and above shame or seediness

it's a tough position for me - as I have worked in the sciences for the past 2 decades - but on this one I have to stand back and say on this issue: Both sides are kinda full of sh!t...

Fair enough. I would caution you not to lose the forest for the tree. While frad may exist, the bulk of the research to date is of credible origin. There is essentially no debate about this. In fact you are seeing former deniers backpeddle to "it exists but it's too expensive to deal with "

[Grizalltheway]

Because everybody KNOWS what Exxon Mobil's agenda is. The GW crowd play as if they HAVE no agenda, and they're just benevolent scientists out to find the "pure" answer....and they've been exposed as frauds.

Z, who (scientists) specifically are the frauds? Please elaborate and be specific about the nature of their fraud. Thanks.

Don't ask him. He copied and pasted all that shit from Tman's posts.

[Cleets Part 2]

Oh No doubt, SPOT ON D1B...
I don't necessarily agree with AZGF - I just for once happen to not completely disagree with him...

BUT..!!!

Global Warming International Spokes person and figurehead AL Gore has lied and profited greatly - much to his everlasting shame (in my opinion) and has besmirched the cause - also I believe that the temptation for great sums of money (see Baldy Gov. link) is too overwhelming and to easy to pass up...

Scientists Researchers and Advanced Technicians are humans first - scientists second - fraud in the scientific community is no more rare than fraud in the business community - we can't in one breath (as I often do) call out the capitalist corporate greed and corruption as the fall of man and then pretend that the men on our side are somehow not corruptable (sp) and above shame or seediness

it's a tough position for me - as I have worked in the sciences for the past 2 decades - but on this one I have to stand back and say on this issue: Both sides are kinda full of sh!t...

Fair enough. I would caution you not to lose the forest for the tree. While frad may exist, the bulk of the research to date is of credible origin. There is essentially no debate about this. In fact you are seeing former deniers backpeddle to "it exists but it's too expensive to deal with "

I already stated: I believe climate change is real...
I just don't know if anybody can honestly say "It's cause by humans"

[D1B]

Fair enough. I would caution you not to lose the forest for the tree. While frad may exist, the bulk of the research to date is of credible origin. There is essentially no debate about this. In fact you are seeing former deniers backpeddle to "it exists but it's too expensive to deal with "

I already stated: I believe climate change is real...
I just don't know if anybody can honestly say "It's cause by humans"

You are in the extreme minority of scientists then. The debate, if you pay attention, is over. Now it's increasingly about what, if anything to do about it.

[Cap'n Cat]

Z, who (scientists) specifically are the frauds? Please elaborate and be specific about the nature of their fraud. Thanks.

Don't ask him. He copied and pasted all that shit from Tman's posts.

No shit!!

[AZGrizFan]

Z, who (scientists) specifically are the frauds? Please elaborate and be specific about the nature of their fraud. Thanks.

Don't ask him. He copied and pasted all that shit from Tman's posts.

Which is ironic in that when T-Man DOES elaborate and IS specific about the fraud (which he has been on NUMEROUS occasions) he's lambasted for the long, detailed posts.

So, in conclusion: Fuck off and die.

[AZGrizFan]

Don't ask him. He copied and pasted all that shit from Tman's posts.

No shit!!

You too, douchebag. I don't have time for your immature BS.

[Grizalltheway]

Don't ask him. He copied and pasted all that shit from Tman's posts.

Which is ironic in that when T-Man DOES elaborate and IS specific about the fraud (which he has been on NUMEROUS occasions) he's lambasted for the long, detailed posts.

So, in conclusion: Fuck off and die.

You'd be lost without me.

[Grizalltheway]

Oh, and Tman gets lambasted because he copies and pastes from bullshit right wing bloggers who hold the same extreme views as him. Hardly iron-clad sources.

[AZGrizFan]

Oh, and Tman gets lambasted because he copies and pastes from bullshit right wing bloggers who hold the same extreme views as him. Hardly iron-clad sources.

There isn't a viable source in the WORLD that you'd accept if it didn't agree with your viewpoint. Your blinders are so fucking impenatrable that you wouldn't recognize independent thought if it walked up and kicked you in the balls.

[Grizalltheway]

Oh, and Tman gets lambasted because he copies and pastes from bullshit right wing bloggers who hold the same extreme views as him. Hardly iron-clad sources.

There isn't a viable source in the WORLD that you'd accept if it didn't agree with your viewpoint. Your blinders are so fucking impenatrable that you wouldn't recognize independent thought if it walked up and kicked you in the balls.

I'm perfectly willing to consider viewpoints different from my own, it's what being a progressive is all about. I'll usually disagree with other viewpoints, but it doesn't mean I won't consider them.

[AZGrizFan]

There isn't a viable source in the WORLD that you'd accept if it didn't agree with your viewpoint. Your blinders are so fucking impenatrable that you wouldn't recognize independent thought if it walked up and kicked you in the balls.

I'm perfectly willing to consider viewpoints different from my own, it's what being a progressive is all about. I'll usually disagree with other viewpoints, but it doesn't mean I won't consider them.

OK, I guess that makes me a textbook progressive. I've considered your opinion, and D's, and Cappy's, and TTBF's, and I reject them.

Wow. I feel better now that I'm a "progressive".

You fuckers slay me.

[Grizalltheway]

I'm perfectly willing to consider viewpoints different from my own, it's what being a progressive is all about. I'll usually disagree with other viewpoints, but it doesn't mean I won't consider them.

OK, I guess that makes me a textbook progressive. I've considered your opinion, and D's, and Cappy's, and TTBF's, and I reject them.

Wow. I feel better now that I'm a "progressive".

You fuckers slay me.

The thing is, you DON'T actually consider them. You immediately dismiss the above posters and me as losers who have never had a real job or done anything for themselves. I like to give you, Tman and native shit, but I at least have an open enough mind to consider why you feel the way you do. The same can't be said of you fellas.

[Cleets Part 2]

I already stated: I believe climate change is real...
I just don't know if anybody can honestly say "It's cause by humans"

You are in the extreme minority of scientists then. The debate, if you pay attention, is over. Now it's increasingly about what, if anything to do about it.

You might be surprised..!!!
I'm not a minority among the Scientists & Physicist and Engineers that I know
it's about 50/50
The concern is real - but there's nowhere near as much finger pointing