AZ Governor wants Nat Guard copters from other states

[dbackjon]

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer is asking President Barack Obama to reallocate National Guard helicopters from other states to help Arizona secure its border with Mexico.
Brewer made the request in a letter to Obama dated Thursday and released on Friday.
She says Arizona only has four OH-58 Kiowa helicopters available for border missions because some choppers are deployed overseas and others are reserved for training missions.
Brewer requests that additional helicopters be freed up from training missions or taken from other states and assigned to the southwestern border.
The governor acknowledges that her request may be unpopular with other governors, but she says she believes there are legitimate national interests in sending more aircraft to Arizona.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/ ... 03286.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dbackjon]

OK non-Arizonans - start lobbying your Governor to send YOUR states troops/Choppers to the border and help out.

[GannonFan]

OK non-Arizonans - start lobbying your Governor to send YOUR states troops/Choppers to the border and help out.

Sorry - we need ours here in PA to help protect the Liberty Bell from further damage. It might seem like an easy target by foreign or domestic radicals because it already has a crack in it. Plus we're pretty hostile with New Jersey these days so we need them to patrol our boarder there.

[Col Hogan]

OK non-Arizonans - start lobbying your Governor to send YOUR states troops/Choppers to the border and help out.

Sorry - we need ours here in PA to help protect the Liberty Bell from further damage. It might seem like an easy target by foreign or domestic radicals because it already has a crack in it. Plus we're pretty hostile with New Jersey these days so we need them to patrol our boarder there.

Ahh...the Arlen Spector school of politics...when BRAC announced they planned to take the A-10s from the PA Air National Guard at Willow Grove, Spector immediately said they were needed to protect Philly from terrorists...

Wwwwwwhhhhhhhaaaaattttt??????

Arizona should ask to borrow the helos for some time, but in the end, they would need more pilots in their Army National Guard to keep them flying...

It's an idea...

[dbackjon]

Or allow the ones in Afganistan and Iraq to come home...

[Col Hogan]

Or allow the ones in Afganistan and Iraq to come home...

So someone who has already gone has to go again too soon???

Nahh...the feds pay the bills...the Governor should ask the borrow choppers from other states for the time being...

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

They dont need anymore choppers from other states.

All they need to do is fly the 4 they have for ONE month on the border and shoot every single person they see near the border on either side.

The only warning they get is the ad in the news paper and on billboards telling the Mexicans we are going to do this.

The ad and the billboards will be in English.

[dbackjon]

They dont need anymore choppers from other states.

All they need to do is fly the 4 they have for ONE month on the border and shoot every single person they see near the border on either side.

The only warning they get is the ad in the news paper and on billboards telling the Mexicans we are going to do this.

The ad and the billboards will be in English.

yeah, that's the ticket. Shoot American citizens as well.

You gonna shoot up Nogales, Douglas and other border cities? You do know they go right to the border.

One of your dumber ideas, AG

[SuperHornet]

Normally, I'm about as hawkish as the next Republican, but I draw the line at this.

1. She's asking already over-worked and under-paid people to take on yet ANOTHER task. One for which they have not been trained. She's setting them up for failure.

2. This thing has the feel of a police action. The only U.S. military organization authorized police powers within the continental U.S. is the COAST GUARD. This action is ILLEGAL under the Posse Comitatus Act.

So unless Brewer wants to reimburse the feds for this AND get Posse Comitatus repealed, she has NO business doing this. All it does is get a cheap pop from the electorate. One of our local congressional candidates has already lost my vote over this issue, and a gubernatorial candidate is about to.

[Col Hogan]

Normally, I'm about as hawkish as the next Republican, but I draw the line at this.

1. She's asking already over-worked and under-paid people to take on yet ANOTHER task. One for which they have not been trained. She's setting them up for failure.

2. This thing has the feel of a police action. The only U.S. military organization authorized police powers within the continental U.S. is the COAST GUARD. This action is ILLEGAL under the Posse Comitatus Act.

So unless Brewer wants to reimburse the feds for this AND get Posse Comitatus repealed, she has NO business doing this. All it does is get a cheap pop from the electorate. One of our local congressional candidates has already lost my vote over this issue, and a gubernatorial candidate is about to.

The National Guard, in Title 32 Status (32 U.S.C 101 - 908), is not federalized...therefore, Posse Comitatus (18 USC 1385) does not apply...they can participate in law enforcement actions, usually under the supervision of local LEOs...

And who is overworked & under paid??? I know who much the military works...they can handle this assignment...and regarding the training, it depends on the specifics of the mission, which I don't know...Do you???

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Normally, I'm about as hawkish as the next Republican, but I draw the line at this.

1. She's asking already over-worked and under-paid people to take on yet ANOTHER task. One for which they have not been trained. She's setting them up for failure.

2. This thing has the feel of a police action. The only U.S. military organization authorized police powers within the continental U.S. is the COAST GUARD. This action is ILLEGAL under the Posse Comitatus Act.

So unless Brewer wants to reimburse the feds for this AND get Posse Comitatus repealed, she has NO business doing this. All it does is get a cheap pop from the electorate. One of our local congressional candidates has already lost my vote over this issue, and a gubernatorial candidate is about to.

The National Guard, in Title 32 Status (32 U.S.C 101 - 908), is not federalized...therefore, Posse Comitatus (18 USC 1385) does not apply...they can participate in law enforcement actions, usually under the supervision of local LEOs...

And who is overworked & under paid??? I know who much the military works...they can handle this assignment...and regarding the training, it depends on the specifics of the mission, which I don't know...Do you???

SH must not have been paying attention during Rambo.

[native]

Normally, I'm about as hawkish as the next Republican, but I draw the line at this.

1. She's asking already over-worked and under-paid people to take on yet ANOTHER task. One for which they have not been trained. She's setting them up for failure.

2. This thing has the feel of a police action. The only U.S. military organization authorized police powers within the continental U.S. is the COAST GUARD. This action is ILLEGAL under the Posse Comitatus Act.

So unless Brewer wants to reimburse the feds for this AND get Posse Comitatus repealed, she has NO business doing this. All it does is get a cheap pop from the electorate. One of our local congressional candidates has already lost my vote over this issue, and a gubernatorial candidate is about to.

...and normally I support you, SH, but this time you are dead wrong. It's the BORDER, not an internal police action, and the National Guard could perform plenty of non-posse-comitatus tasks.

However, IF some U.S. citizens are working as coyotes or trafficking for the cartels, and they get their arses blown off on the border, then BOO-FVCKING-HOO. That would be a GOOD thing.

[SuperHornet]

Hogan: That's just the point. Even if Posse Comitatus doesn't apply, the other point does. We already have folk doing back-to-back-to-back deployments. The Reserves and Guard have people getting illegally fired from their jobs (or just not getting hired to begin with) due to their military commitment. (In many cases, it's hard to prove, even for those members who know about the support law.) Divorce rates, traditionally high in the military anyway, are even worse in this time of excessively high OPTEMPO. I'll grant that INS types could come over to train, but the fact still remains that our folk aren't getting a break as it is, yet they're being asked to do something else as well? Our forces are being stretched too thin.

Native: While I'll have to agree to disagree with you on your point #1, if we do allow the Guard to do this, I would wholeheartedly back your point #2. The Navy does anti-drug ops outside the Continental US and is very successful at it, so I have no cause to worry that the Guard would fail at that if legally asked. My main beef, of course, is with the INS-type stuff.

[native]

Hogan: That's just the point. Even if Posse Comitatus doesn't apply, the other point does. We already have folk doing back-to-back-to-back deployments. The Reserves and Guard have people getting illegally fired from their jobs (or just not getting hired to begin with) due to their military commitment. (In many cases, it's hard to prove, even for those members who know about the support law.) Divorce rates, traditionally high in the military anyway, are even worse in this time of excessively high OPTEMPO. I'll grant that INS types could come over to train, but the fact still remains that our folk aren't getting a break as it is, yet they're being asked to do something else as well? Our forces are being stretched too thin.

Native: While I'll have to agree to disagree with you on your point #1, if we do allow the Guard to do this, I would wholeheartedly back your point #2. The Navy does anti-drug ops outside the Continental US and is very successful at it, so I have no cause to worry that the Guard would fail at that if legally asked. My main beef, of course, is with the INS-type stuff.

We are in agreement, SuperHornet.

I would note that the Coast Guard is already exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act. That is why they fall under the Department of Homeland Security and not the Department of Defense (although the USCG can be legally seconded to the DoD under certain circumstances.)

The biggest immediate problem, as noted by other posters, is that the Coast Guard is not equipped for the mission in Arizona.

One solution would be for USCG officers to be assigned to military units assigned to Arizona, in order to supervise the military operations and to perform specific law enforcement duties when required. This has already been done in joint LE ops with the U.S. Navy.

[YoUDeeMan]

2. This thing has the feel of a police action. The only U.S. military organization authorized police powers within the continental U.S. is the COAST GUARD.

I like people who demonstrate the ability to think outside the box.

Drop a Coast Guard cutter into the middle of the desert? It just might work...illegal aliens would never expect that.

[Skjellyfetti]

Jan Brewer needs to buy some of these Walkera helicopters being advertised at the bottom of this page.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

2. This thing has the feel of a police action. The only U.S. military organization authorized police powers within the continental U.S. is the COAST GUARD.

I like people who demonstrate the ability to think outside the box.

Drop a Coast Guard cutter into the middle of the desert? It just might work...illegal aliens would never expect that.

If you disguised it as a Home Depot they would line up in droves under the covered waiting areas.

http://www.dirtybutton.com/videos/330-amazing-racist/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Col Hogan]

Hogan: That's just the point. Even if Posse Comitatus doesn't apply, the other point does. We already have folk doing back-to-back-to-back deployments. The Reserves and Guard have people getting illegally fired from their jobs (or just not getting hired to begin with) due to their military commitment. (In many cases, it's hard to prove, even for those members who know about the support law.) Divorce rates, traditionally high in the military anyway, are even worse in this time of excessively high OPTEMPO. I'll grant that INS types could come over to train, but the fact still remains that our folk aren't getting a break as it is, yet they're being asked to do something else as well? Our forces are being stretched too thin.

Native: While I'll have to agree to disagree with you on your point #1, if we do allow the Guard to do this, I would wholeheartedly back your point #2. The Navy does anti-drug ops outside the Continental US and is very successful at it, so I have no cause to worry that the Guard would fail at that if legally asked. My main beef, of course, is with the INS-type stuff.

SH, define "back-to-back deployments"...

Reserve components are on a mandatory 5 - 1 deployment ratio per the SECDEF...that means they must be home 5 days for every one day deployed...

So if a reserve/Guard unit deploys for one year...then must be home five before the next mandatory deployment...some units/states are volunteering for a higher deployment level, but Guard units (the subject here) are not going on "back-to-back" deployments like the active duty is...some active duty units are on a 1 - 1 deployment level, with the SECDEF goal being 3 - 1...

Your point about illegal firings, while valid, is not as wide spread as you make it sound...

And the National Guard is already doing counter-drug missions within the U.S....have been for years, with a huge budget...It's wasted money IMHO, but the training and equipment already exists and is in full use each and every day in just about every state in the Union...

[ASUG8]

SC still has a newly single Gov. Mark Sanford, so he needs the helos here for chasing tail.

[dbackjon]

Arizona National Guard Helos were in full training mode this weekend - doing drills at Papago Park Military Reservations (about a mile from my house).

[Col Hogan]

Arizona National Guard Helos were in full training mode this weekend - doing drills at Papago Park Military Reservations (about a mile from my house).

That's what drill weekends are for...training...

[SuperHornet]

You bring up some good points, Hogan. Unfortunately, the military often skirts the rules to suit the situation. For example, sea pay is mandatory for those who are aboard ship for thirty days or more. Not a big deal for those permanently assigned to ships, but it's HUGE for squadrons which get assigned to ships for 29 days, sent home for one, and then go right back out to skirt the rule. When the poop hits the fan, these deployment rules are going to get skewered if they're not already. The goal is nice, but the reality is probably not so nice. Remember that the Reserves are responsible for backfilling bases, too, unless that has gone out the window in this deployment environment.

When I was in the Reserves, I begged for active duty and generally got it when I wanted it (generally during the summer to accommodate school) because others didn't want to go. (What I got was generally backfill-type stuff.) Today, nobody seems to have that choice and gets sent at inopportune times. Of course, that's hardly news to anybody....