"Recovery Summer"
"Recovery Summer"
What a joke. Double dip is on the way...
Recovery loses speed as consumers turn cautious
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The recovery lost momentum in the spring as growth slowed to a 2.4 percent pace, its most sluggish showing in nearly a year and too weak to drive down unemployment.
Consumers spent less, companies slowed their restocking of shelves and the nation's trade deficit dragged more on the economy in the April-to-June quarter. In a separate report, the Commerce Department said the recession was deeper than previously estimated.
Together, the reports raise doubts about whether employers will hire enough and consumers will spend enough to invigorate the economy. As unemployment remains near double digits, Congress could feel pressure to pass more stimulus measures to speed the recovery. So far, Republicans and some Democrats have blocked additional spending because of their concerns about the size of the deficit.
Investors reacted to the report with disappointment. Stock futures fell in the hour before the markets opened.
The Commerce Department report released Friday did offer some encouraging. Businesses invested the most in 13 years on equipment and software during the second quarter. For the first time in two years, builders boosted spending on commercial projects. And home builders spent the most in 27 years, although many expect that to fade now that government homebuying tax credits have expired.
The report also showed that the economy grew at a 3.7 percent pace in the first three months of this year. That was much better than the 2.7 percent pace estimated just a month ago.
Still, the recovery has been losing power for two straight quarters. That raises concerns about whether it will fizzle out. Or worse, tip back into a "double-dip" recession.
Unless something changes rapidly, we will kickoff the 2010 football season in a recession.
Thank you, President Obama...
Recovery loses speed as consumers turn cautious
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The recovery lost momentum in the spring as growth slowed to a 2.4 percent pace, its most sluggish showing in nearly a year and too weak to drive down unemployment.
Consumers spent less, companies slowed their restocking of shelves and the nation's trade deficit dragged more on the economy in the April-to-June quarter. In a separate report, the Commerce Department said the recession was deeper than previously estimated.
Together, the reports raise doubts about whether employers will hire enough and consumers will spend enough to invigorate the economy. As unemployment remains near double digits, Congress could feel pressure to pass more stimulus measures to speed the recovery. So far, Republicans and some Democrats have blocked additional spending because of their concerns about the size of the deficit.
Investors reacted to the report with disappointment. Stock futures fell in the hour before the markets opened.
The Commerce Department report released Friday did offer some encouraging. Businesses invested the most in 13 years on equipment and software during the second quarter. For the first time in two years, builders boosted spending on commercial projects. And home builders spent the most in 27 years, although many expect that to fade now that government homebuying tax credits have expired.
The report also showed that the economy grew at a 3.7 percent pace in the first three months of this year. That was much better than the 2.7 percent pace estimated just a month ago.
Still, the recovery has been losing power for two straight quarters. That raises concerns about whether it will fizzle out. Or worse, tip back into a "double-dip" recession.
Unless something changes rapidly, we will kickoff the 2010 football season in a recession.
Thank you, President Obama...
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Sounds like we need another stimulus bill.
From your article:
Also, this seems like people freaking out to me. It was predicted to be 2.5 and it's 2.4. Doesn't seem like reason to lose your shit.
From your article:
The economy began to grow in the third quarter of last year after having suffered the worst recession since the Great Depression. And in the following quarter the economy's growth surged at a 5 percent pace, the high water mark of the rebound.
Much of the expansion was driven by the government's massive $862 billion stimulus package of tax cuts and increased spending.
Also, this seems like people freaking out to me. It was predicted to be 2.5 and it's 2.4. Doesn't seem like reason to lose your shit.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Since the first one worked so well, that's exactly what we need.Skjellyfetti wrote:Sounds like we need another stimulus bill.
From your article:The economy began to grow in the third quarter of last year after having suffered the worst recession since the Great Depression. And in the following quarter the economy's growth surged at a 5 percent pace, the high water mark of the rebound.
Much of the expansion was driven by the government's massive $862 billion stimulus package of tax cuts and increased spending.
Also, this seems like people freaking out to me. It was predicted to be 2.5 and it's 2.4. Doesn't seem like reason to lose your ****.
I love how the American left..."progressives" rail against the free market, denigrate capitalism, decry big business, big oil, etc, but they are the first ones in there whining how we need to save the free market and capitalism with bogus "stimulus" packages and bailouts.
It is called the free market because everyone is free to succeed or fail. Good business decisions, good business models, and good management are rewarded by being successful. Bad business decisions, models, and bad management reward the free market with their failure. It is a matter of profit and loss, you can't have profit with out the losses. Bad companies should be allowed to fail, period.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Sounds like you're confusing the stimulus bill with TARP, oh bald one.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Both baldy and myself have gone on the record many times as being against both TARP AND the massive stimulus packages. I'm fairly certain (given the industry he's in) he knows way more about TARP than you do (or ever will).Skjellyfetti wrote:Sounds like you're confusing the stimulus bill with TARP, oh bald one.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Let me see if I've got this right... for my own edification.
The democrats want to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire yet they want more stimulus spending????????????
So is what I just typed code for tax and spend/income redistribution?????????????????? Or perhaps code for "the government knows better how to spend the money of hard working tax paying americans than the producers, earners, and business owners than they do?" Or perhaps "lower taxes on small business doesn't help the economy but higher taxes and government spending does??????????????"
The arrogance...
The democrats want to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire yet they want more stimulus spending????????????
So is what I just typed code for tax and spend/income redistribution?????????????????? Or perhaps code for "the government knows better how to spend the money of hard working tax paying americans than the producers, earners, and business owners than they do?" Or perhaps "lower taxes on small business doesn't help the economy but higher taxes and government spending does??????????????"
The arrogance...
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
And the ruling class of Dems and Reps are stilling living with champaigne wishes and caviar dreams while the rest of us wait for a recovery........................
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Both baldy and myself have gone on the record many times as being against both TARP AND the massive stimulus packages. I'm fairly certain (given the industry he's in) he knows way more about TARP than you do (or ever will). [/quote]AZGrizFan wrote:Sounds like you're confusing the stimulus bill with TARP, oh bald one.
Then he should know not to respond to a post on the stimulus bill with a post railing against TARP.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
And you should learn how to use the quote function.Skjellyfetti wrote:Then he should know not to respond to a post on the stimulus bill with a post railing against TARP.AZGrizFan wrote:
Both baldy and myself have gone on the record many times as being against both TARP AND the massive stimulus packages. I'm fairly certain (given the industry he's in) he knows way more about TARP than you do (or ever will).
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Lubricunt, I have one question for you:
Where do you think all that stimulus money ends up?
Where do you think all that stimulus money ends up?
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Not at all. In the end it's all the same, $15,000,000,000,000 of debt and growing exponentially.Skjellyfetti wrote:Sounds like you're confusing the stimulus bill with TARP, oh bald one.
Or was that a racist comment?
Re: "Recovery Summer"
Then he should know not to respond to a post on the stimulus bill with a post railing against TARP. [/quote]Skjellyfetti wrote:Both baldy and myself have gone on the record many times as being against both TARP AND the massive stimulus packages. I'm fairly certain (given the industry he's in) he knows way more about TARP than you do (or ever will).AZGrizFan wrote:Sounds like you're confusing the stimulus bill with TARP, oh bald one.
My post was a response to government intervention in any form. Don't give a fvck if its TARP or stimulus.
I would love to sit you down one day and give you a lesson in simple and basic economics.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
I don't want to ever find myself in the same room with lubricunt. I'd wring his pompous neck.Baldy wrote:My post was a response to government intervention in any form. Don't give a fvck if its TARP or stimulus.Skjellyfetti wrote:
Then he should know not to respond to a post on the stimulus bill with a post railing against TARP.
I would love to sit you down one day and give you a lesson in simple and basic economics.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
AZ, your arthritic joints would crumble if you ever tried to wring my neck.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Thank you for confirming my point.Skjellyfetti wrote:AZ, your arthritic joints would crumble if you ever tried to wring my neck.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Given that we put 9/11, Katrina, and two wars on a credit card, wouldn't allowing the Bush Tax Cuts to expire be a redistribution of a redistribution?blueballs wrote:Let me see if I've got this right... for my own edification.
The democrats want to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire yet they want more stimulus spending????????????
So is what I just typed code for tax and spend/income redistribution?????????????????? Or perhaps code for "the government knows better how to spend the money of hard working tax paying americans than the producers, earners, and business owners than they do?" Or perhaps "lower taxes on small business doesn't help the economy but higher taxes and government spending does??????????????"
The arrogance...
Of course small businesses should be protected, but I don't feel sorry for multinational corporations and the uber rich. For many of them, taxes have been reduced and income has increased while the country crumbles.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
baldy is also "way more of a pirate than you will EVER be"AZGrizFan wrote:baldy knows way more about TARP than you do (or ever will).Skjellyfetti wrote:Sounds like you're confusing the stimulus bill with TARP, oh bald one.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
"Recovery Summer" is going about as well as the "Summer of George"
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Katrina Costs: $288 billionkalm wrote:Given that we put 9/11, Katrina, and two wars on a credit card, wouldn't allowing the Bush Tax Cuts to expire be a redistribution of a redistribution?blueballs wrote:Let me see if I've got this right... for my own edification.
The democrats want to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire yet they want more stimulus spending????????????
So is what I just typed code for tax and spend/income redistribution?????????????????? Or perhaps code for "the government knows better how to spend the money of hard working tax paying americans than the producers, earners, and business owners than they do?" Or perhaps "lower taxes on small business doesn't help the economy but higher taxes and government spending does??????????????"
The arrogance...
Of course small businesses should be protected, but I don't feel sorry for multinational corporations and the uber rich. For many of them, taxes have been reduced and income has increased while the country crumbles.
9/11 costs: $100 billion
Iraq/Afghanistan: $1.2 trillion
Stimulus Plan: $787 billion
Oil Spill: $3 billion
Cash for Clunkers: $3 billion
Home Buyer Credit: $12.6 billion
Healthcare Costs: $950 billion
Unemployment Extension: $100 billion
....and on and on and on and on.....
And FYI Kalm, this country is crumbling because 47% of individuals pay NO taxes at all. This country is crumbling because more and more people expect the government to take care of them. This country is crumbling because we have a government that, instead of representing the will of the people (healthcare, immigration, stimulus packages) think THEY know what's best and pass legislation in the face of overwhelming disapproval from the voters.
This country is crumbling because of turds like you who think that people who make over $200,000 are the devil and must pay MORE than their fair share to maintain the infrastructure of this country.
Last edited by AZGrizFan on Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Can't use health care as an example anymore, AZ.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00004.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Opposition to the landmark health care overhaul declined over the past month, to 35 percent from 41 percent, according to the latest results of a tracking poll, reported Thursday.
Fifty percent of the public held a favorable view of the law, up slightly from 48 percent a month ago, while 14 percent expressed no opinion about the measure, according to the poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation.
(More polls from the Washington Post)
The approval level was the highest for the legislation since it was enacted in March, after a divisive year-long debate. In April, the poll found 46 percent in favor and 40 percent opposed.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
I'll see your ^^ and raise you a:Skjellyfetti wrote:Can't use health care as an example anymore, AZ.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00004.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Opposition to the landmark health care overhaul declined over the past month, to 35 percent from 41 percent, according to the latest results of a tracking poll, reported Thursday.
Fifty percent of the public held a favorable view of the law, up slightly from 48 percent a month ago, while 14 percent expressed no opinion about the measure, according to the poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation.
(More polls from the Washington Post)
The approval level was the highest for the legislation since it was enacted in March, after a divisive year-long debate. In April, the poll found 46 percent in favor and 40 percent opposed.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... h_care_law" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks, but I'll keep using it.The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 58% of voters favor repeal, including 48% who Strongly Favor it. Thirty-seven percent (37%) are opposed to repeal, with 28% who are Strongly Opposed.
Support for repeal is up two points from a week ago but is consistent with findings recorded over the past several month. Weekly tracking surveys have found support for repeal has ranged from 52% to 63%.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
AZGrizFan wrote:I'll see your ^^ and raise you a:Skjellyfetti wrote:Can't use health care as an example anymore, AZ.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00004.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... h_care_law" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks, but I'll keep using it.The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 58% of voters favor repeal, including 48% who Strongly Favor it. Thirty-seven percent (37%) are opposed to repeal, with 28% who are Strongly Opposed.
Support for repeal is up two points from a week ago but is consistent with findings recorded over the past several month. Weekly tracking surveys have found support for repeal has ranged from 52% to 63%.
Yeah. I didn't think you'd have a cutesy little comeback for THAT, KY.
Game, set, match: AZGrizFan.
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
AZGrizFan wrote:Katrina Costs: $288 billionkalm wrote:
Given that we put 9/11, Katrina, and two wars on a credit card, wouldn't allowing the Bush Tax Cuts to expire be a redistribution of a redistribution?
Of course small businesses should be protected, but I don't feel sorry for multinational corporations and the uber rich. For many of them, taxes have been reduced and income has increased while the country crumbles.
9/11 costs: $100 billion
Iraq/Afghanistan: $1.2 trillion
Stimulus Plan: $787 billion
Oil Spill: $3 billion
Cash for Clunkers: $3 billion
Home Buyer Credit: $12.6 billion
Healthcare Costs: $950 billion
Unemployment Extension: $100 billion
....and on and on and on and on.....
And FYI Kalm, this country is crumbling because 47% of individuals pay NO taxes at all. This country is crumbling because more and more people expect the government to take care of them. This country is crumbling because we have a government that, instead of representing the will of the people (healthcare, immigration, stimulus packages) think THEY know what's best and pass legislation in the face of overwhelming disapproval from the voters.
This country is crumbling because of turds like you who think that people who make over $200,000 are the devil and must pay MORE than their fair share to maintain the infrastructure of this country.
Z, you should sometime try - what's that phrase you like - oh yeah, getting off of Wall Street's dick for awhile.
BTW, I guess you can lump Exxon into that 47% since they actually got money back from the government last year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/busin ... hardt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Even if the discussion is restricted to federal taxes (for which the statistics are better), a vast majority of households end up paying federal taxes. Congressional Budget Office data suggests that, at most, about 10 percent of all households pay no net federal taxes. The number 10 is obviously a lot smaller than 47.
The reason is that poor families generally pay more in payroll taxes than they receive through benefits like the Earned Income Tax Credit. It’s not just poor families for whom the payroll tax is a big deal, either. About three-quarters of all American households pay more in payroll taxes, which go toward Medicare and Social Security, than in income taxes.
Focusing on the statistical middle class — the middle 20 percent of households, as ranked by income — underlines this point. Households in this group made $35,400 to $52,100 in 2006, the last year for which the Congressional Budget Office has released data. That would describe a household with one full-time worker earning about $17 to $25 an hour. Such hourly pay is typical for firefighters, preschool teachers, computer support specialists, farmers, members of the clergy, mail carriers, secretaries and truck drivers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Taking into account both taxes and tax credits, the average household in this group paid a total income tax rate of just 3 percent. A good number of people, in fact, paid no net income taxes. They are among the alleged free riders.
But the picture starts to change when you look not just at income taxes but at all taxes. This average household would have paid 0.8 percent of its income in corporate taxes (through the stocks it owned), 0.9 percent in gas and other federal excise taxes, and 9.5 percent in payroll taxes. Add these up, and the family’s total federal tax rate was 14.2 percent.
I realize that it’s possible to argue that payroll taxes should be excluded from the discussion because they pay for benefits — Social Security and Medicare — that people receive on the back end. But that argument doesn’t seem very persuasive.
Why? People do not receive benefits equal to the payroll taxes they paid. Those who die at age 70 will receive much less in Social Security and Medicare than they paid in taxes. Those who die at 95 will probably get much more.
The different kinds of federal taxes are really just accounting categories. At the end of the day, the government has to cover the cost of all its operations with revenue from all its taxes. We can’t wish our deficit away by saying that it’s mostly a Medicare and Social Security deficit.
If anything, the government numbers I’m using here exaggerate how much of the tax burden falls on the wealthy. These numbers fail to account for the income that is hidden from tax collectors — a practice, research shows, that is more common among affluent families. “Because higher-income people are understating their income,” Joel Slemrod, a tax scholar at the University of Michigan, says, “We’ve been overstating their average tax rates.”
State and local taxes, meanwhile, may actually be regressive. That is, middle-class and poor families may face higher tax rates than the wealthy. As Kim Rueben of the Tax Policy Center notes, state and local income taxes and property taxes are less progressive than federal taxes, while sales taxes end up being regressive. The typical family pays a lot of state and local taxes, too — almost half as much as in federal taxes.
There is no question that the wealthy pay a higher overall tax rate than any other group. That is an American tradition. But there is also no question that their tax rates have fallen more than any other group’s over the last three decades. The only reason they are paying more taxes than in the past is that their pretax incomes have risen so rapidly — which hardly seems a great rationale for a further tax cut.
Do ya think the wealthy are really complaining about having to pay more of the taxes?
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Re: "Recovery Summer"
Well, then perhaps there needs to be another tax level for those of us not getting rich, but who are going to be impacted if these tax cuts expire.kalm wrote:Oh, and believe me, I wasn't referring to $200K/year earners.
And believe ME, if the government could figure out a way to give back the FICA and medicare taxes paid by that 47% and make the OTHER 53% pay for THAT too, they'd be all OVER it.
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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12