Montana will be offered by WAC

[JALMOND]

The thing is that the Pac-10 will not grant a road game to the WAC if they can beat the WAC 42-14 at home. Washington State is only 10 miles from Idaho, yet the Cougars have never played at the Kibbie Dome since Idaho joined the WAC. Boise had a home and home with Oregon State, but no other Pac-10 team played at Boise until last year when Oregon came in to start the season. If Griz Nation is hoping to catch a game in Missoula against the Pac-10, they most likely will have to wait a long time for it to happen. The Ducks, UW, even Wazzu are not going to run right out there just because it is Montana.

Duck fans are already complaining about this season's "weak" non-conference schedule.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Cal just played @ Nevada. And lost.

[JALMOND]

Cal just played @ Nevada. And lost.

Nevada has been out of the Big Sky for 17 years and is just now getting some luv from the Pac-10 and the BCS. Montana needs to look at this scenario and see if this is the path they want. You can see what the WAC wants, when it could be argued that its top two teams (and possibly the top three) all came from the Big Sky.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Cal just played @ Nevada. And lost.

Is that supposed to refute J's point or what? Nevada went up the same time Boise so his point about the PAC not working with the WAC for the WAC to have home games stands. In fact the WAC will be considered much less of a conference with the recent losses and will have even less leverage in that regard.

Boise ain't gonna be coming for a OOC game to Missoula anytime soon either I wouldn't think because they are all about traveling to ANY big school they can to get some credibility for their program and coming to MT ain't gonna achieve nothing for them.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Just wanted to throw it out there. Carry-on.

[BearIt]

[

Griz football is a product, it's not a "friend" as Bearit stated. If Grizza doesn't feel the link to the product that he previously did because of the changes then I can't fault him for stepping away from it and it is likely that I will also not feel the link that I did when we had the OPPORTUNITY to play for a championship IF we have a good team that year.

Nobody said **** about counting on playoff games. We have had them if we were good, and that can be counted on now. It will never be able to be counted again.

Bear it...did you seriously use NCAA seeding as part of the argument.

My point is directed at Grizza who wants to stay in FCS because he like to have 7-10 home games every year. We really are only ensured of having 6 home games each year. 2 of his reasons for not moving up were: Having fewer home games and not getting to see my "friends" at the games that I only see during Griz Game season. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it looks to me that he is counting on playoffs for more home games. If we stop consistantly making the play offs (see GSU), then these 2 reasons for staying in the FCS are no longer valid.

I know the NCAA seeding thing is a stretch, but my point is that things can change with the playoff system that could reduce our home games as well.

Personally I love the playoffs and would be sad to see them go, but would I feel the same if my team wasn't consistantly a part of them? I don't know. You don't see a lot of "anti move-up" talk coming from the fans of Sac State, Portland State or Texas State. Perhaps their limited participation in the playoffs has something to do with that. How will our fan base feel if we miss the playoffs for the next 5 years?

[Silenoz]

Has anyone pointed out that FBS teams play more regular season games?

[JALMOND]

Personally I love the playoffs and would be sad to see them go, but would I feel the same if my team wasn't consistantly a part of them? I don't know. You don't see a lot of "anti move-up" talk coming from the fans of Sac State, Portland State or Texas State. Perhaps their limited participation in the playoffs has something to do with that. How will our fan base feel if we miss the playoffs for the next 5 years?

The lack of playoff appearances may have something to do with the pro-WAC feeling in Portland and Sacramento, but it may have something else, something that the Griz and other Big Sky schools do not have. Not speaking for Sac State, but just from PSU's perspective, a move to the WAC would benefit in Portland. As I stated before, the Pac-10 has been extremely lax in giving the WAC a home and home. If the WAC had a presence in Portland, it may become attractive to have Oregon and/or Oregon State play a "road" game in Portland, thus scheduling a home and home with the Vikings. Five or six home games plus a game in Portland may be quite attractive for the Ducks and Beavers, as well as Sacramento would for Stanford and Cal.

I must preface this, though, with the fact that there is currently no talk on any of the PSU fan sites, nor on Oregon Live about any WAC expansion or moveup from PSU. This talk of PSU to the WAC is also something I have been strongly opposed to in the past.

[BearIt]

The way I see it. One of the problems for Montana fans compared to the other potential WAC programs is that because of our current playoff success, we see ourselves losing that aspect by moving to the FBS. Other programs in the WAC discussions really aren't losing the playoffs because they have had little participation. The problem is Montana fans do not seem to realize that we can "lose" the playoffs with out moving to the FBS. Look at YSU or GSU as examples.

I agree that the reward of a playoff is better than the reward of a Bowl game, but lets assume that we are like the rest of the football world and that most seasons we don't participate in either. Now all you get are regular season games. Which matchups would you rather see the griz face: Big sky/Great West teams or WAC/MWC teams?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

[

Griz football is a product, it's not a "friend" as Bearit stated. If Grizza doesn't feel the link to the product that he previously did because of the changes then I can't fault him for stepping away from it and it is likely that I will also not feel the link that I did when we had the OPPORTUNITY to play for a championship IF we have a good team that year.

Nobody said **** about counting on playoff games. We have had them if we were good, and that can be counted on now. It will never be able to be counted again.

Bear it...did you seriously use NCAA seeding as part of the argument.

My point is directed at Grizza who wants to stay in FCS because he like to have 7-10 home games every year. We really are only ensured of having 6 home games each year. 2 of his reasons for not moving up were: Having fewer home games and not getting to see my "friends" at the games that I only see during Griz Game season. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it looks to me that he is counting on playoffs for more home games. If we stop consistantly making the play offs (see GSU), then these 2 reasons for staying in the FCS are no longer valid.

Ok, I gotcha now on the first paragraph. I misunderstood what you were saying in regards to the "friend' thing as it was filtered through GtFalls' post I guess. The thing is if we are good then we have a shot in FCS. If we are bad in FCS we have the same chance as if we are good in FBS we will have no shot at anything.

I know the NCAA seeding thing is a stretch, but my point is that things can change with the playoff system that could reduce our home games as well.

Things can change but us having home games during the playoffs via a seeding process is not one of them. We sent the NCAA 1 million last year for the three games we hosted. They put the only seeding the top four in place specifically because they wanted to get rid of any controversy with seedings. Ask McNeese about this issue. Hell it's bandied about as the "Montana Rule" when it comes to the playoffs for a reason. Sorry man, but that one doesn't work in any sense.
Personally I love the playoffs and would be sad to see them go, but would I feel the same if my team wasn't consistantly a part of them? I don't know. You don't see a lot of "anti move-up" talk coming from the fans of Sac State, Portland State or Texas State. Perhaps their limited participation in the playoffs has something to do with that. How will our fan base feel if we miss the playoffs for the next 5 years?

As I said I've been there while we weren't involved and a lot of fans didn't think a lot about the playoffs in 86, 87...then we got in in 1988 and went to Idaho first round...the candle was lit. In 1989 everybody was abuzz suddenly when we lost a game because they really wanted to see a home playoff game if it was possible. When the time came and we found out that we would be hosting a playoff game that is THE MOMENT that Griz football started to become the beast that it is now. It was amazing to feel that change.

After the 1989 run we were out of the playoffs for 1990, 91. & 92 (suffering a 1-5 start) and you know what? 1993 started and nobody knew that there would be a Dave Dickenson that would lift the program to new heights. Didn't damper the spirit or the attendance. Griz fans were talking about getting back to the playoffs. So NO, I absolutely do not think that missing the playoffs for a five years would damper the desire to be back in it.

Some fans of Sac St., Tx State, & PSU have don't embrace what the playoffs mean partially because they don't have the experience of being in them fairly consistently but I think it's primarily because they can't shake the penis Envy of the bigger schools that are situated nearby to them. They long for their programs to be the next Oregon, or USC, or Texas in spite of the fact that it will never happen. I think that has more to do with it than anything else.

[BearIt]

If the WAC had a presence in Portland, it may become attractive to have Oregon and/or Oregon State play a "road" game in Portland, thus scheduling a home and home with the Vikings. Five or six home games plus a game in Portland may be quite attractive for the Ducks and Beavers, as well as Sacramento would for Stanford and Cal.

Agreed, but PDX needs a larger venue for that to happen. It would be great if there was a 50-60K stadium in PDX. I could see the Ducks and Beavers both occassionally scheduling games here not just against PSU It would be a perfect location for the Civil War. PSU should move up and build it.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

The way I see it. One of the problems for Montana fans compared to the other potential WAC programs is that because of our current playoff success, we see ourselves losing that aspect by moving to the FBS. Other programs in the WAC discussions really aren't losing the playoffs because they have had little participation. The problem is Montana fans do not seem to realize that we can "lose" the playoffs with out moving to the FBS. Look at YSU or GSU as examples.

I agree that the reward of a playoff is better than the reward of a Bowl game, but lets assume that we are like the rest of the football world and that most seasons we don't participate in either. Now all you get are regular season games. Which matchups would you rather see the griz face: Big sky/Great West teams or WAC/MWC teams?

I've said this already but I'll say it again for ya. IF we have a good year we get the chance to see how we good we are against the rest of the teams.

No matter if we have a good or bad year in FBS we don't get that chance.

The WAC sucks fucking shit and I don't know how anyone would act like those teams coming in is better than what we have regular season right now.

I can not think of ANY WAC games that we will be a part of that will interest me a great deal. We have established rivalries with the BSC that we will not have with the WAC. MWC is a different story but we give up everything for one game a year against an MWC team...maybe, one game.

Just differing perspectives I guess but if you are getting all jacked up about WAC games then I think you are getting jacked up about what we wish the WAC was, not what it actually is.

[grizzaholic]

[

Griz football is a product, it's not a "friend" as Bearit stated. If Grizza doesn't feel the link to the product that he previously did because of the changes then I can't fault him for stepping away from it and it is likely that I will also not feel the link that I did when we had the OPPORTUNITY to play for a championship IF we have a good team that year.

Nobody said **** about counting on playoff games. We have had them if we were good, and that can be counted on now. It will never be able to be counted again.

Bear it...did you seriously use NCAA seeding as part of the argument.

My point is directed at Grizza who wants to stay in FCS because he like to have 7-10 home games every year. We really are only ensured of having 6 home games each year. 2 of his reasons for not moving up were: Having fewer home games and not getting to see my "friends" at the games that I only see during Griz Game season. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it looks to me that he is counting on playoffs for more home games. If we stop consistantly making the play offs (see GSU), then these 2 reasons for staying in the FCS are no longer valid.

I know the NCAA seeding thing is a stretch, but my point is that things can change with the playoff system that could reduce our home games as well.

Personally I love the playoffs and would be sad to see them go, but would I feel the same if my team wasn't consistantly a part of them? I don't know. You don't see a lot of "anti move-up" talk coming from the fans of Sac State, Portland State or Texas State. Perhaps their limited participation in the playoffs has something to do with that. How will our fan base feel if we miss the playoffs for the next 5 years?

Reading too much into it again. Are you from Florida? Not sure if you have read the thread or just snippits...

[BearIt]

I've said this already but I'll say it again for ya. IF we have a good year we get the chance to see how we good we are against the rest of the teams.

No matter if we have a good or bad year in FBS we don't get that chance.

The WAC sucks **** **** and I don't know how anyone would act like those teams coming in is better than what we have regular season right now.

I can not think of ANY WAC games that we will be a part of that will interest me a great deal. We have established rivalries with the BSC that we will not have with the WAC. MWC is a different story but we give up everything for one game a year against an MWC team...maybe, one game.

Just differing perspectives I guess but if you are getting all jacked up about WAC games then I think you are getting jacked up about what we wish the WAC was, not what it actually is.

Ursus, like I said in an earlier post. I will be content with either decision to stay or go. I'm just trying to point out that staying in the FCS doesn't necessarily mean that we will continue to have our current success. It seems like a lot of people's passion about the FCS revolves around the playoffs, but there is no promise that we will continue to be a regular playoff participant.

I have to disagree with you on some of your post. I'm not necessarily jacked up about the WAC, but I'm not jacked up about alot of the BSC either. As a whole, the new WAC will be better competition than most of the current Big Sky. Also we have a lost rivalry with Idaho that would be reestablished. I would enjoy this if we move up plus add in the more frequent MWC and PAC-10 games and I will happy with being in the FBS.

Flip side for me losing Weber, EWU, and MSU would suck. I really enjoy those rivalries in Football and Basketball and I will be happy to stay to keep those.

[GtFllsGriz]

Ursus, sorry if I offended you so much. What I was trying to say, maybe not so elegantly, is that I will be a fan of the Griz no matter which way we go. There are positives and negatives either way. I get tired of all the negativity surrounding moving up such as, fewer games, fans will desert the Griz as soon as they lose, we won't be able to recruit anyone. I think that is as much bs as we will kick everyone's butt in the WAC and we are superior to the BSC. So much of it is bs on both sides. I personally try to remain optomistic about it either way. I also believe that change within the FCS is coming within a few years no matter what we want.

I am a fan of the Griz either way. If you choose to quit watching the Griz if they move to the WAC, so be it. That is your choice. I will miss your avatar.

[grizzaholic]

Ursus, sorry if I offended you so much. What I was trying to say, maybe not so elegantly, is that I will be a fan of the Griz no matter which way we go. There are positives and negatives either way. I get tired of all the negativity surrounding moving up such as, fewer games, fans will desert the Griz as soon as they lose, we won't be able to recruit anyone. I think that is as much bs as we will kick everyone's butt in the WAC and we are superior to the BSC. So much of it is bs on both sides. I personally try to remain optomistic about it either way. I also believe that change within the FCS is coming within a few years no matter what we want.

I am a fan of the Griz either way. If you choose to quit watching the Griz if they move to the WAC, so be it. That is your choice. I will miss your avatar.

And again we have a someone that is unable to read. No one is saying that they will quit watching the Griz, wishing for them to lose, and disliking them.... Just said that they will not support them MONETARILY.

[GtFllsGriz]

Ok, sorry, I must be reading this all wrong. Won't support them monetarily...gotcha. Maybe I am reading way too much into the comments. We have beat this to death on egriz as well and it seems there are those that will commit suicide if we move up and those that think we are way too good for the BSC. I have opinions but am still in the middle on the issue. I just think some of the arguments are bs on both sides. I would like to think that we are all Griz fans first but get the feeling that if certain fans, ON EACH SIDE, don't get there way, they want to pick up their football and go home. Once again, sorry if I offended anyone. Thank God it is Fri. Time for a drink. Go Griz

[grizzaholic]

Ok, sorry, I must be reading this all wrong. Won't support them monetarily...gotcha. Maybe I am reading way too much into the comments. We have beat this to death on egriz as well and it seems there are those that will commit suicide if we move up and those that think we are way too good for the BSC. I have opinions but am still in the middle on the issue. I just think some of the arguments are bs on both sides. I would like to think that we are all Griz fans first but get the feeling that if certain fans, ON EACH SIDE, don't get there way, they want to pick up their football and go home. Once again, sorry if I offended anyone. Thank God it is Fri. Time for a drink. Go Griz

Yes Egriz has beaten this dead horse, glued it back together and beat it again.

I also am glad it is Friday, Homecoming weekend. There is a drinking thread in the Locker Room....Always has good ideas as long as you don't drink anything that Andy7171 is drinking.

[GtFllsGriz]

Yeah, I think I will stay away from whatever he had also. LOL Go Griz

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Ursus, sorry if I offended you so much. What I was trying to say, maybe not so elegantly, is that I will be a fan of the Griz no matter which way we go. There are positives and negatives either way. I get tired of all the negativity surrounding moving up such as, fewer games, fans will desert the Griz as soon as they lose, we won't be able to recruit anyone. I think that is as much bs as we will kick everyone's butt in the WAC and we are superior to the BSC. So much of it is bs on both sides. I personally try to remain optomistic about it either way. I also believe that change within the FCS is coming within a few years no matter what we want.

I am a fan of the Griz either way. If you choose to quit watching the Griz if they move to the WAC, so be it. That is your choice. I will miss your avatar.

Let's say the current fan base is 50/50 on this thing. I think it's more like 60/40 in favor of FCS but the people I talk with the most are fans from the Don Read era forward so my view could be askew a little in favor of what the actual fan base thinks so I'll give ya 50/50 in sake of fairness.

Some of that 50% is gonna be pissed and won't want to pay for it anymore. They will still be fans and hope the Griz do well but they don't even have the hope of seeing the Griz play for a NC anymore once it's taken away. Some of those fans are not going to want to pay and give their previous level of FINANCIAL support. They will have their place taken by new fans that don't have any attachment or a very small attachment to the previous FCS championship runs.

I would like to see games against ID again and would go if offered tickets to other games I'm sure. I just ain't gonna keep buying season tickets and be a lap dog for something I don't want to see happen. Let some other fan that is emotionally invested in the move up and what is forthcoming carry the load for what they support. It's gonna take a lot of money if they do it so those that want it can pay the tab as far as I'm concerned.

I used to attend EVERY bball game until Bill Moos thought it was a good idea to move the students section and shrink it so the seats could be sold to GSA members. That move turned out to be a real atmosphere changer and took away what was once a fantastic home atmosphere for Griz BBall. I have went to TWO Griz BBall since 1992. Two in almost 20 yrs. because they fucked up a great thing and I wouldn't have went to those if I a friend hadn't offered me the tickets for free.

As far as changes coming. You could be right but I think the bigger changes are still going to be in FBS. The BCS conferences don't like sharing the money with the smaller schools in FBS and they will leverage to control that once the big boys get their alignments in order the smaller conferences are gonna have to eat what they kill and I don't know if there is gonna be a lot left to kill when the Big Four get done. We'll be in a conference that is looking for scraps from the masters table. I've been wrong before though.

I wasn't about the downfall of Grizzly BBall though.

You take away the chance to play for a national championship then you move from a severe passion of mine into a different category altogether where winning and losing don't have nearly the impact they do now.

[Cap'n Cat]

Ok, sorry, I must be reading this all wrong. Won't support them monetarily...gotcha. Maybe I am reading way too much into the comments. We have beat this to death on egriz as well and it seems there are those that will commit suicide if we move up and those that think we are way too good for the BSC. I have opinions but am still in the middle on the issue. I just think some of the arguments are bs on both sides. I would like to think that we are all Griz fans first but get the feeling that if certain fans, ON EACH SIDE, don't get there way, they want to pick up their football and go home. Once again, sorry if I offended anyone. Thank God it is Fri. Time for a drink. Go Griz

Don't EVER apologize on a message board, you worm.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Ok, sorry, I must be reading this all wrong. Won't support them monetarily...gotcha. Maybe I am reading way too much into the comments. We have beat this to death on egriz as well and it seems there are those that will commit suicide if we move up and those that think we are way too good for the BSC. I have opinions but am still in the middle on the issue. I just think some of the arguments are bs on both sides. I would like to think that we are all Griz fans first but get the feeling that if certain fans, ON EACH SIDE, don't get there way, they want to pick up their football and go home. Once again, sorry if I offended anyone. Thank God it is Fri. Time for a drink. Go Griz

I spent too much time typing the last post as Grizza nailed the crux of what I was saying anyway.

You don't see me on eGriz because I, like you, see way too much of the outlandish talk about who we are and what we could do either way. I try to only talk about things like this from a rational perspective but since my perspective is all I have I'll have to go with that.

BTW, no offense taken. I do not cotton to the "shame on you" thing thogh. Since you're used to some of the eGriz style posters I can see where it came from though.

[Cap'n Cat]

Ok, sorry, I must be reading this all wrong. Won't support them monetarily...gotcha. Maybe I am reading way too much into the comments. We have beat this to death on egriz as well and it seems there are those that will commit suicide if we move up and those that think we are way too good for the BSC. I have opinions but am still in the middle on the issue. I just think some of the arguments are bs on both sides. I would like to think that we are all Griz fans first but get the feeling that if certain fans, ON EACH SIDE, don't get there way, they want to pick up their football and go home. Once again, sorry if I offended anyone. Thank God it is Fri. Time for a drink. Go Griz

I spent too much time typing the last post as Grizza nailed the crux of what I was saying anyway.

You don't see me on eGriz because I, like you, see way too much of the outlandish talk about who we are and what we could do either way. I try to only talk about things like this from a rational perspective but since my perspective is all I have I'll have to go with that.

BTW, no offense taken. I do not cotton to the "shame on you" thing thogh. Since you're used to some of the eGriz style posters I can see where it came from though.

Which is worse, Bisonville or eGriz?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I've said this already but I'll say it again for ya. IF we have a good year we get the chance to see how we good we are against the rest of the teams.

No matter if we have a good or bad year in FBS we don't get that chance.

The WAC sucks **** **** and I don't know how anyone would act like those teams coming in is better than what we have regular season right now.

I can not think of ANY WAC games that we will be a part of that will interest me a great deal. We have established rivalries with the BSC that we will not have with the WAC. MWC is a different story but we give up everything for one game a year against an MWC team...maybe, one game.

Just differing perspectives I guess but if you are getting all jacked up about WAC games then I think you are getting jacked up about what we wish the WAC was, not what it actually is.

Ursus, like I said in an earlier post. I will be content with either decision to stay or go. I'm just trying to point out that staying in the FCS doesn't necessarily mean that we will continue to have our current success. It seems like a lot of people's passion about the FCS revolves around the playoffs, but there is no promise that we will continue to be a regular playoff participant.

I have to disagree with you on some of your post. I'm not necessarily jacked up about the WAC, but I'm not jacked up about alot of the BSC either. As a whole, the new WAC will be better competition than most of the current Big Sky. Also we have a lost rivalry with Idaho that would be reestablished. I would enjoy this if we move up plus add in the more frequent MWC and PAC-10 games and I will happy with being in the FBS.

Flip side for me losing Weber, EWU, and MSU would suck. I really enjoy those rivalries in Football and Basketball and I will be happy to stay to keep those.

Bearit, I don't know where you get that I've ever said anything about the playoffs being a guarantee, I agree that they are not as I've seen it happen both ways in Griz history. So we agree on that...we good there?

As far as the WAC vs. the BSC, we know that CP & UCD are coming in to the BSC. We have a good idea of what the WAC is gonna look like with Nevada, Boise, & Fresno gone. You'll take the WAC, I'll stick with the way the BSC is gonna look, and the chance at playing for something meaningful.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I spent too much time typing the last post as Grizza nailed the crux of what I was saying anyway.

You don't see me on eGriz because I, like you, see way too much of the outlandish talk about who we are and what we could do either way. I try to only talk about things like this from a rational perspective but since my perspective is all I have I'll have to go with that.

BTW, no offense taken. I do not cotton to the "shame on you" thing thogh. Since you're used to some of the eGriz style posters I can see where it came from though.

Which is worse, Bisonville or eGriz?

I don't go to either enough to know the answer to that one Cappy.