Showdown In Wisconsin

[GannonFan]

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

So you agree then that the Republicans should have voted for Universal Health Care, like Obama was elected to do

No, I don't agree with that. If you don't like something, don't vote for it. I'm not sure I advocate running away and hiding, but I personally have no problem with people voting against the majority.

[Bronco]

The folks over on state run media have me confused. 1st Ed Schultz says we have a surplus in the social security trust fund and now Rachael Madcow is saying the Governor has a surplus in the bank and is only doing this for political reasons.

Which is it?
==

Rachel Maddow says Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year
PolitiFact.com ^ | 2/18/2011 | Dave Umhoefer, PolitiFact

It has taken hold with conviction: the idea that Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker ginned up a phony budget crisis to justify his bold bid to strip state employees of most bargaining rights and cut their benefits.

A volley of e-mails, blog posts and inquiries to reporters followed a Madison Capital Times editorial on Feb. 16, 2011, that said no state budget deficit exists for 2010-’11 -- or if it does, it’s the fault of Walker and the Republicans in the Legislature.

Liberal MSNBC talk show host Rachel Maddow joined in Feb. 17, accusing Walker of manipulating the situation for political gain.

"Despite what you may have heard about Wisconsin’s finances, the state is on track to have a budget surplus this year," she said. "I am not kidding."

--
From a Wisconsin paper


WI Gov.-elect Scott Walker to inherit projected $3.3 billion budget deficit
Madison Examiner ^ | 11/24/2010 | Paul Neuberger

Wisconsin Gov.-elect Scott Walker was the recipient of the unwelcome news that he will be inheriting a projected budget deficit as high as $3.3 billion over the next two years. Last week, the Wisconsin Department of Administration (DOA) published a report announcing there would be a $1.5 billion gap between state revenue and state spending through June 30, 2013. It appears that the news is much grimmer than that, however.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...

[Baldy]

1. State employees "averaging" 100k??? I don't know what state you live in, but it sure as hell isn't true in Wisconsin. Most public servants make less in the public sector than they would in the corporate world for similar jobs. The reasons they stay in the public sector? Generally much more stable, better benefits and the prospect of helping your state.

Milwaukee government school teachers average $100,000 per year in compensation. That is a fact.

[youtube][/youtube]

2. "hitching a ride"? These people work for a living. They repair your roads, teach your kids, clean your water, and PROTECT YOU WHILE YOU SLEEP. They aren't asking for a fucking handout - they work for a living. They want their right to bargain collectively with their employer to be respected.

The people paying their salaries work for a living too, its just that they average making about 2.5X less and don't have a free Cadillac benefits package. I find it rather unfathomable that you believe Joe 6pack should work for less than half the wage, pay for his own healthcare, and pay for the salary and a gaudy benefits package of public servants.

in fact - the head of AFSCME in Wisconsin (I believe, might be SEIU) has said if the Governor is willing to negotiate in good faith, the public employees believe a compromise, wherein they cover more of their pensions and benefits as a means of helping stem the budget crisis would be appropriate. (provided their right to bargain collectively is respected)...

doesn't seem unreasonable - waiting to hear what Walker has to say to that.

It's amazing how things change in such a short period of time. Two short years ago all we heard from the Donks was you got to get in the back seat, we're driving the car, come along for the ride, an my favorite Obama quote I posted earlier in this thread, "elections have consequences". When Donks win, there is no compromise. When they lose, they scream for compromise and "bipartisanship".

It sucks when this shit comes and bites you in the ass. Obama ran on his healthcare platform, we didn't want it, but he shoved it down our throats anyway. Walker ran on this platform and now gets to shove it down their throats. The only difference is Americans didn't want Obamacare, but the people in Wisconsin want this.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

1. State employees "averaging" 100k??? I don't know what state you live in, but it sure as hell isn't true in Wisconsin. Most public servants make less in the public sector than they would in the corporate world for similar jobs. The reasons they stay in the public sector? Generally much more stable, better benefits and the prospect of helping your state.

Milwaukee government school teachers average $100,000 per year in compensation. That is a fact.

[youtube][/youtube]

2. "hitching a ride"? These people work for a living. They repair your roads, teach your kids, clean your water, and PROTECT YOU WHILE YOU SLEEP. They aren't asking for a fucking handout - they work for a living. They want their right to bargain collectively with their employer to be respected.

The people paying their salaries work for a living too, its just that they average making about 2.5X less and don't have a free Cadillac benefits package. I find it rather unfathomable that you believe Joe 6pack should work for less than half the wage, pay for his own healthcare, and pay for the salary and a gaudy benefits package of public servants.

in fact - the head of AFSCME in Wisconsin (I believe, might be SEIU) has said if the Governor is willing to negotiate in good faith, the public employees believe a compromise, wherein they cover more of their pensions and benefits as a means of helping stem the budget crisis would be appropriate. (provided their right to bargain collectively is respected)...

doesn't seem unreasonable - waiting to hear what Walker has to say to that.

It's amazing how things change in such a short period of time. Two short years ago all we heard from the Donks was you got to get in the back seat, we're driving the car, come along for the ride, an my favorite Obama quote I posted earlier in this thread, "elections have consequences". When Donks win, there is no compromise. When they lose, they scream for compromise and "bipartisanship".

It sucks when this shit comes and bites you in the ass. Obama ran on his healthcare platform, we didn't want it, but he shoved it down our throats anyway. Walker ran on this platform and now gets to shove it down their throats. The only difference is Americans didn't want Obamacare, but the people in Wisconsin want this.

the quote in the video YOU posted said the average pay was 56k /year.... ya lyin' sack of shit.

watch your own fucking video!

(0:18 in the video)

[Pwns]

Honestly, how f^&*ing entitlement-minded have teachers become? They're basically bi^ching and moaning because they aren't going to get their pay raises, which teachers in most states get quite often. How many friggin' millions of people are unemployed and underemployed while they complain because their pay raises are going to be delayed and perhaps have to actually contribute to their pensions with their own salary like normal private-sector workers? Also, they don't seem to give a sh^t about Johnny the Janitor or Billy the Bus Driver, who would be hurt much worse by this bill.

Can't say I think the bill is a good idea, though. There's a right way and a wrong way to go about fixing these type of problems. Scott Walker could learn from Chris Christie about how to do it right.

[JohnStOnge]

the quote in the video YOU posted said the average pay was 56k /year.... ya lyin' sack of ****.

watch your own **** video!

He referred to $100,000 in "compensation." Salary is just part of total compensation as total compensation includes the value of benefits such as the health insurance, life insurance, and retirement programs. So it's theoretically possible that both statements could be true.

My understanding is that State employees make lower salaries relative to people in comparable positions in private industry. However, I do think they tend to have much better benefits packages as well as far better job security. And they are not as accoutable. With the States I have experience with it is much more difficult for a State to terminate an employee for poor performance than it is for a private employer to do that.

[Baldy]

Milwaukee government school teachers average $100,000 per year in compensation. That is a fact.

[youtube][/youtube]


The people paying their salaries work for a living too, its just that they average making about 2.5X less and don't have a free Cadillac benefits package. I find it rather unfathomable that you believe Joe 6pack should work for less than half the wage, pay for his own healthcare, and pay for the salary and a gaudy benefits package of public servants.


It's amazing how things change in such a short period of time. Two short years ago all we heard from the Donks was you got to get in the back seat, we're driving the car, come along for the ride, an my favorite Obama quote I posted earlier in this thread, "elections have consequences". When Donks win, there is no compromise. When they lose, they scream for compromise and "bipartisanship".

It sucks when this shit comes and bites you in the ass. Obama ran on his healthcare platform, we didn't want it, but he shoved it down our throats anyway. Walker ran on this platform and now gets to shove it down their throats. The only difference is Americans didn't want Obamacare, but the people in Wisconsin want this.

the quote in the video YOU posted said the average pay was 56k /year.... ya lyin' sack of shit.

watch your own fucking video!

(0:18 in the video)

Pay attention you stoopid fucktard.
I said their total COMPENSATION was $100K a year, and compensation includes their free Cadillac benefit plans.

(0:45 of the video)

[Bronco]

I wonder if this is because they know how unions keep some crappy teachers around.

==

29.4% Of Milwaukee public school teachers send their own children to private schools
Washington Times ^ | September 22, 2004

Nationwide, public school teachers are almost twice as likely as other parents to choose private schools for their own children, the study by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute found. More than 1 in 5 public school teachers said their children attend private schools.

... in cities like Milwaukee... where 29.4 percent of public school teachers sent their children to private schools...

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...

[Thumper 76]

Growing up in WI and having some of the teachers I had and seeing how they "negotiated" I have 0 pity for the bastards. There were a few that I like sure, but when I have a teacher in one of my high school classes say to us "I only have three years left before I retire and they can't fire me thanks to my union, and I don't want to grade papers, so I am going to give you all the answers for the test in the same order as the test, right before the test, so I don't have to grade much."
No lie, the guy went through and would go "Number 1, A, Number 2, C, and so on" and the rest of the class periods we would sit and read from the book while he surfed the internet.

And then, the year that the paper mill in my town was shutting down (thankfully it reopened shortly after) and its the towns whole economy, the teachers tried to pass a reforendum to raise the taxes on the town and county to get a RAISE! The entire town was going under and they were throwing a fit because it didn't pass so they didn't get their annual raise.

[Bronco]

Average MPS Teacher Compensation Tops $100k/year
[Milwaukee, Wisconsin] MacIver News Service – For the first time in history, the average annual compensation for a teacher in the Milwaukee Public School system will exceed $100,000.

That staggering figure was revealed last night at a meeting of the MPS School Board.
The average salary for an MPS teacher is $56,500. When fringe benefits are factored in, the annual compensation will be $100,005 in 2011.

MacIver’s Bill Osmulski has more in this video report.
http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/03/ave ... -100kyear/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bronco]

In order to be filled with this much hate they must have been listening to Palin, Limbaugh and Beck.


Twitter Users Wish Death on Scott Walker

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube][/youtube]

[Col Hogan]

In order to be filled with this much hate they must have been listening to Palin, Limbaugh and Beck.


Twitter Users Wish Death on Scott Walker

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube][/youtube]

So, where's the outrage, dback...D1B...Cap....

Where is the condemnation of the uncivil discourse from these people...

[Thumper 76]

Oh I should post some of the stuff thats being said on facebook right now by some of the people from my hometown

[biobengal]

The idea that there is a "right" to force someone to keep you as an employee is absurd. An employer should have the right to end its association with an employee at any time for any reason just like an employee has a right to end association with the employer.

Gone are the days when a person could hold one job for their entire life. My father in law held one union job for 20+ years, compared to 3 non-union jobs in his last ten. However, sadly, I have to agree with John on this one; there is no inherent right to hold a job, no inherent right to employer supported health care, no right to employer supported pension.

At the moment the public sector is different, they have these rights and the perks that come with them. We'll see if the assumptions aobut public employees (lazy, greedy, etc.), the removal of collective bargaining and the decreased benefits will affect these occupations and the desire for people to fill them, especially teaching.

[kalm]

Gone are the days when a person could hold one job for their entire life. My father in law held one union job for 20+ years, compared to 3 non-union jobs in his last ten. However, sadly, I have to agree with John on this one; there is no inherent right to hold a job, no inherent right to employer supported health care, no right to employer supported pension.

At the moment the public sector is different, they have these rights and the perks that come with them. We'll see if the assumptions aobut public employees (lazy, greedy, etc.), the removal of collective bargaining and the decreased benefits will affect these occupations and the desire for people to fill them, especially teaching.

This.

I think it's absolutely adorable how the conk champions of the "free market" and money = free speech are shocked! shocked! I tell ya about teachers greasing the skids of state lawmakers to pass favorable compensation. Cause, you know, the bankers and the defense contractors and the energy producers and the realtors associations don't ever do that. No, when it comes to teacher compensation the all powerful Baldy and Bronco should set the scale and public workers free speech shouldn't matter.

I'm beginning to admire the teachers, cops, and firefighters as much as Lloyd Blankfein. They've worked the system to perfection.

[Chizzang]

Gone are the days when a person could hold one job for their entire life. My father in law held one union job for 20+ years, compared to 3 non-union jobs in his last ten. However, sadly, I have to agree with John on this one; there is no inherent right to hold a job, no inherent right to employer supported health care, no right to employer supported pension.

At the moment the public sector is different, they have these rights and the perks that come with them. We'll see if the assumptions aobut public employees (lazy, greedy, etc.), the removal of collective bargaining and the decreased benefits will affect these occupations and the desire for people to fill them, especially teaching.

This.

I think it's absolutely adorable how the conk champions of the "free market" and money = free speech are shocked! shocked! I tell ya about teachers greasing the skids of state lawmakers to pass favorable compensation. Cause, you know, the bankers and the defense contractors and the energy producers and the realtors associations don't ever do that. No, when it comes to teacher compensation the all powerful Baldy and Bronco should set the scale and public workers free speech shouldn't matter.

I'm beginning to admire the teachers, cops, and firefighters as much as Lloyd Blankfein. They've worked the system to perfection.

Exactly...
It really just comes down to who you think should be allowed to steal from the system and who shouldn't...
or perhaps more appropriately - who steals is such a manner as to go along with your style of world view

Wall Street Fund managers =
Insurance Companies =
Banking Executives =
Defense Contractors =
Oil Conglomerates =

Teachers =
Union Workers =

[Baldy]

Gone are the days when a person could hold one job for their entire life. My father in law held one union job for 20+ years, compared to 3 non-union jobs in his last ten. However, sadly, I have to agree with John on this one; there is no inherent right to hold a job, no inherent right to employer supported health care, no right to employer supported pension.

At the moment the public sector is different, they have these rights and the perks that come with them. We'll see if the assumptions aobut public employees (lazy, greedy, etc.), the removal of collective bargaining and the decreased benefits will affect these occupations and the desire for people to fill them, especially teaching.

This.

I think it's absolutely adorable how the conk champions of the "free market" and money = free speech are shocked! shocked! I tell ya about teachers greasing the skids of state lawmakers to pass favorable compensation. Cause, you know, the bankers and the defense contractors and the energy producers and the realtors associations don't ever do that. No, when it comes to teacher compensation the all powerful Baldy and Bronco should set the scale and public workers free speech shouldn't matter.

I'm beginning to admire the teachers, cops, and firefighters as much as Lloyd Blankfein. They've worked the system to perfection.

Why wouldn't you admire them? Government employee unions contribute almost exclusively to Donks, and half of the Obama administration transferred to the White House from Goldman Sachs.

[Grizalltheway]

This.

I think it's absolutely adorable how the conk champions of the "free market" and money = free speech are shocked! shocked! I tell ya about teachers greasing the skids of state lawmakers to pass favorable compensation. Cause, you know, the bankers and the defense contractors and the energy producers and the realtors associations don't ever do that. No, when it comes to teacher compensation the all powerful Baldy and Bronco should set the scale and public workers free speech shouldn't matter.

I'm beginning to admire the teachers, cops, and firefighters as much as Lloyd Blankfein. They've worked the system to perfection.

Why wouldn't you admire them? Government employee unions contribute almost exclusively to Donks, and half of the Obama administration transferred to the White House from Goldman Sachs.

Nice deflection, as usual, but that really has nothing to do with kalm's assertion that private sector companies/employees are just as guilty, if not more so, of milking the government cow.

[Grizalltheway]

Although, the Goldman-Sachs tidbit is exhibit A for how fucked up the corporatocracy has become.

[Chizzang]

Although, the Goldman-Sachs tidbit is exhibit A for how fucked up the corporatocracy has become.

Agreed..!!!
Bush and Obama are beholden to the same Wall Street Golden God
Beyond that they again only differ in who ass they kiss

Bush knelt at the alter of Big Oil and Defense Money
Obama is blowing the Social Agenda

Meet new boss - same as the old boss

[oldsloguy]

Average MPS Teacher Compensation Tops $100k/year
[Milwaukee, Wisconsin] MacIver News Service – For the first time in history, the average annual compensation for a teacher in the Milwaukee Public School system will exceed $100,000.

That staggering figure was revealed last night at a meeting of the MPS School Board.
The average salary for an MPS teacher is $56,500. When fringe benefits are factored in, the annual compensation will be $100,005 in 2011.

MacIver’s Bill Osmulski has more in this video report.
http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/03/ave ... -100kyear/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jeeze Bronc, you need to understand than when you are not working you have to spend more money on recreational activities. The typical school teacher works an average of 180 days per year while most others work 230+ days per year. They need more money to help them cover the free time and lead meaningful lives. What would you suggest they do with their spare time, sit at home because they don’t have enough money!!! Have a heart!!

Sheesh, my wife and I are retired and during the summer, everwhere we go there are teachers hiking, biking, canoeing, kayaking yada yada. It costs money!

[Bronco]

Here's the Governor explaining how there will be layoffs.

http://rightnetwork.com/videos/860061582" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Baldy]

Why wouldn't you admire them? Government employee unions contribute almost exclusively to Donks, and half of the Obama administration transferred to the White House from Goldman Sachs.

Nice deflection, as usual, but that really has nothing to do with kalm's assertion that private sector companies/employees are just as guilty, if not more so, of milking the government cow.

Well, not quite the deflection kalm tried to make.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but if you want to have a vigorous discussion about that, be my guest and make another thread.

[D1B]

Go Walker! Fuck the public employees and their unions!

If he wins look for this circus in your state capital soon. Then hopefully to washington.

[D1B]

Nice deflection, as usual, but that really has nothing to do with kalm's assertion that private sector companies/employees are just as guilty, if not more so, of milking the government cow.

Well, not quite the deflection kalm tried to make.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but if you want to have a vigorous discussion about that, be my guest and make another thread.

"start another thread' = typical cop out of the defeated.