Wofford @ UNI Game Thread

[clawman]

Seriously...Really... the kick returner just DROPPED the ball and walked off the field? So whats the rest of the story???

[UNI88]

He should feel the worst....2 personal foul penalties, and that fumble.

His actions were directly responsible for 14 of the 21 second half points.

No sense in kicking a kid while he's already down.

I'd give him responsibility for 11 of the 21 second half points. I think UNI gets a FG on the one drive regardless of the first personal foul penalty.

And I'm with YT on #2. I feel bad for the kid. He wanted to win and went over the edge because of his desire and those personal fouls got in his head and had him all screwed up. What kind of person he is and what kind of team he plays on will be defined more by how he and his teammates react to what happened than what actually happened. He's a junior so hopefully he chalks this up as a learning experience and works harder to help the team get back to the playoffs next year. Hopefully, his teammates rally around him to help him realize that he's human and humans make mistakes. Even thinking about leaving him in CF because he screwed up the way he did wouldn't reflect well on the team or the coach.

[JayJ79]

Seriously...Really... the kick returner just DROPPED the ball and walked off the field? So whats the rest of the story???

no, he caught the ball in the endzone, and just stood there holding the ball out (waiting to toss it to the ref or something).

then one of the UNI kick coverage guys runs in, knocks the ball out of his hands, and a second coverage guy jumps on the loose ball in the endzone for the TD.

returner never took a knee for the touchback, so the play was still live.

[griz8791]

UNI was soundly defeated by NDSU earlier this year. They are pretenders. They are on their way out because this is the beginning of the "BISON ERA" a term the plow jockies at panther talk just cant handle!

What a bunch of intellectually challenged sandusky types those UNI folks are.

Behold, it has returned from the grave and walks among us.

[Trapped in CA]

UNI was soundly defeated by NDSU earlier this year. They are pretenders. They are on their way out because this is the beginning of the "BISON ERA" a term the plow jockies at panther talk just cant handle!

What a bunch of intellectually challenged sandusky types those UNI folks are.

Even Mr Obvious would think that someone should be the last person making any jokes that remotely concern male + male sex.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Cap'n Cat]

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[JayJ79]

I'll never get tired of watching that clip.

*files it in the same archive as the '05 Texas State "take a knee" game*

[JayJ79]

UNI's radio guy mentioned that Wofford's radio guy claimed that supposedly, in SoCon games (with SoCon officials), the refs will often blow the play dead on kickoff touchback situations without the returner having to take a knee.

Can any SoCon fans verify that?

If it is true, then the SoCon officials suck for not following the rules properly. (But it's still a boneheaded move by the return guy)

[∞∞∞]

The way he acted, it seems like it was actually an invalid fair catch signal which still meant it was a dead ball:

A. A catch after an invalid signal is not a fair catch, and the ball is
dead where caught or recovered. If the signal follows a catch or recovery, the
ball is dead when the signal is first given.

B. Invalid signals beyond the neutral zone apply only to Team B.

C. An invalid signal beyond the neutral zone is possible only when the ball has
crossed the neutral zone.

It's a 5 yard penalty in the NFL, but not giving the proper signal isn't a penalty in the NCAA. From what I just read, an invalid signal in the NCAA is pretty much the same as a fair catch. In the end, I guess it's up to the ref, but his body language definitely indicated he wanted a dead ball even though he didn't make the fair catch signal (which made it an invalid signal).

[FargoBison]

UNI's radio guy mentioned that Wofford's radio guy claimed that supposedly, in SoCon games (with SoCon officials), the refs will often blow the play dead on kickoff touchback situations without the returner having to take a knee.

Can any SoCon fans verify that?

If it is true, then the SoCon officials suck for not following the rules properly. (But it's still a boneheaded move by the return guy)

This happened at an NDSU game vs MN. Our player caught the ball in the endzone, stood there for a while and then threw the ball to the ref. The Ref avoided the throw and our player recovered it at the three yard line. Then the refs huddled and decided he never intended to return the kick and it was placed at the 20.

[clenz]

The way he acted, it seems like it was actually an invalid fair catch signal which still meant it was a dead ball:

A. A catch after an invalid signal is not a fair catch, and the ball is
dead where caught or recovered. If the signal follows a catch or recovery, the
ball is dead when the signal is first given.

B. Invalid signals beyond the neutral zone apply only to Team B.

C. An invalid signal beyond the neutral zone is possible only when the ball has
crossed the neutral zone.

It's a 5 yard penalty in the NFL, but not giving the proper signal isn't a penalty in the NCAA. From what I just read, an invalid signal in the NCAA is pretty much the same as a fair catch. In the end, I guess it's up to the ref, but his body language definitely indicated he wanted a dead ball even though he didn't make the fair catch signal (which made it an invalid signal).

There was no fair catch...the wave of the hand had to do with his movement and catching his balance. I was standing in the north concourse, literally right above the play, there was no fair catch, no whistle, no nothing.

[∞∞∞]

There was no fair catch...the wave of the hand had to do with his movement and catching his balance. I was standing in the north concourse, literally right above the play, there was no fair catch, no whistle, no nothing.

An invalid signal is anything that's not a fair catch signal. His body language could be that signal and it's pretty clear he wanted the ball dead. It's kinda stupid, but I think it's there to protect the athletes.

[clenz]

There was no fair catch...the wave of the hand had to do with his movement and catching his balance. I was standing in the north concourse, literally right above the play, there was no fair catch, no whistle, no nothing.

An invalid signal is anything that's not a fair catch signal. His body language could be that signal and it's pretty clear he wanted the ball dead. It's kinda stupid, but I think it's there to protect the athletes.

There was no signal. If he wanted the ball dead all he had to do was take a knee.

Had UNI defenders given up and gone off the field he could have easily taken off for 6....no matter how you want to look at it, it is his own damn fault.

[∞∞∞]

An invalid signal is anything that's not a fair catch signal. His body language could be that signal and it's pretty clear he wanted the ball dead. It's kinda stupid, but I think it's there to protect the athletes.

There was no signal. If he wanted the ball dead all he had to do was take a knee.

Had UNI defenders given up and gone off the field he could have easily taken off for 6....no matter how you want to look at it, it is his own damn fault.

I disagree; his body language in the endzone was clearly the signal he wasn't going to play the ball. I think that's where the invalid signal rule kicks in which seems there to protect the athlete...what if the other team leveled him when it's pretty clear he wasn't going to play the ball out?

[clenz]

There was no signal. If he wanted the ball dead all he had to do was take a knee.

Had UNI defenders given up and gone off the field he could have easily taken off for 6....no matter how you want to look at it, it is his own damn fault.

I disagree; his body language in the endzone was clearly the signal he wasn't going to play the ball. I think that's where the invalid signal rule kicks in which seems there to protect the athlete...what if the other team leveled him when it's pretty clear he wasn't going to play the ball out?

He should have kneed the ball then. I was screaming at the top of my lungs for our guys to lay him the fuck out for just standing there like that. If he wanted the play to end there is a real quick way to do that....take a knee.

Had UNI's players walked off the field before the whistle was blown he could have ran it back.


No different than a QB taking a knee to end the game. If he takes the snap and just stands there the play isn't over, he is fair game to be taken down.

[∞∞∞]

He should have kneed the ball then. I was screaming at the top of my lungs for our guys to lay him the fuck out for just standing there like that.

Yes, because football isn't just a game and a simple mental mistake should clearly lead to possible injury. Listen to yourself...we're talking about young adults with the rest of their lives ahead of them.

Also, it's pretty obvious the invalid signal rule is there for a reason because otherwise it wouldn't exist since it offers nothing fundamentally different than a fair catch. It's a safety cushion so students don't get hurt if they make a mental gaffe. If it's obvious that the player isn't going to play the ball, that's your signal there.

[clenz]

He should have kneed the ball then. I was screaming at the top of my lungs for our guys to lay him the fuck out for just standing there like that.

Yes, because football isn't just a game and a simple mental mistake should clearly lead to possible injury. Listen to yourself...we're talking about young adults with the rest of their lives ahead of them.

Also, it's pretty obvious the invalid signal rule is there for a reason because otherwise it wouldn't exist since it offers nothing fundamentally different than a fair catch. It's a safety cushion so students don't get hurt if they make a mental gaffe. If it's obvious that the player isn't going to play the ball, that's your signal there.

So if a QB takes a snap and stops avoiding tackles, but doesn't go down and he just stands there the play is over?

Same with a RB...takes a hand off and just stands there the play should be over?

Horse shit. You want the play to be over, end the play by taking a knee. That's all you have to do in college football no matter where you are on the field or your position.

[∞∞∞]

Those are ridiculous comparisons and you know it. You're comparing QBs and RBs whom are completely aware of what they're doing if they just stop to a kick returner who wasn't aware and could've gotten seriously injured. Plus your situations have nothing in the rules to protect the player from what they're doing; the invalid signal rule is in place to protect a kick returner if he forgets to call a dead ball but shows he wants one (and it's clear he did).

[UNI88]

Those are ridiculous comparisons and you know it. You're comparing QBs and RBs whom are completely aware of what they're doing if they just stop to a kick returner who wasn't aware and could've gotten seriously injured. Plus your situations have nothing in the rules to protect the player from what they're doing; the invalid signal rule is in place to protect a kick returner if he forgets to call a dead ball but shows he wants one (and it's clear he did).

If I understand you correctly, you're stating that not taking a knee when it is clear that that is what you want/intend to do is an invalid signal because you are not properly signaling your intent. Essentially, making no signal is the same as making the wrong signal and thus an invalid signal. I don't disagree with you in theory but that would be very difficult to interpret and call in a game situation. One referee could interpret it very differently from another - if the kicking team hit the returner, one referee could call it a personal foul and another might make no call. If the returner stood back there and waited for the kicking team to leave the field then ran it for a TD, one referee might call it a downed ball based on the returners apparent intent and place it on the 20 while another might let the TD stand. IMO, that's too ambiguous and difficult for the kicking team to interpret and play accordingly. Yes someone might get injured but it's football and there is always a chance of injury. It's pretty simple if the returner wants to avoid a potential injury in that situation, take a knee.

[clenz]

Apparently Woffords own coach disagrees with Trip....


"For the life of me, I don't get it," said Wofford head coach Mike Ayers. "Evidently, he didn't understand that you have to take a knee. He's returned a lot of kicks for us and has taken a knee several times. I don't know. In the heat of the moment, things go awry.

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Listen to the ruling from the ref...."The recieving team caught the ball in the endzeone. Never made it out, did not down the ball. He dropped the ball, fumbled. The kicking team recovered, it is a touchdown.


The announcer also stated after that it was the right call because he never declared he wanted the play dead.

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[Silenoz]

UNI's radio guy mentioned that Wofford's radio guy claimed that supposedly, in SoCon games (with SoCon officials), the refs will often blow the play dead on kickoff touchback situations without the returner having to take a knee.

Can any SoCon fans verify that?

If it is true, then the SoCon officials suck for not following the rules properly. (But it's still a boneheaded move by the return guy)

I'm pretty sure I've seen this even at the NFL level

[Aho Old Guy]

I didn't see the play but I suspect it would somehow be handled in the NCAA ref book under an interpretation of impetus.

As far as I know there is no rule on 'taking a knee' but the kid certainly had a 'blackout' moment.