Where Are the 47% of Americans Who Pay No Income Taxes?

[Gil Dobie]

Don't raise taxes and make the government more efficient and responsible with the money.

But you'll still have people who don't contribute in the form of income tax. This seems to be something that bothers you and other Conks a great deal. Are you ok with this?

Where did I say it bothered me?

[death dealer]

Don't raise taxes and make the government more efficient and responsible with the money.

But you'll still have people who don't contribute in the form of income tax. This seems to be something that bothers you and other Conks a great deal. Are you ok with this?

Ah, but that's where you are wrong. A) I'm not a Conk or whatever else you want to label people, and B) What bothers me is saying that I don't pay my fair shair when I already pay 40%, while so many people pay nothing. (and saying they pay payroll taxes is bullshit, because I'm not counting that in my percentage, so that's a wash)

[citdog]

LOVE that map!!!!!


why not look at the same from the adoption of the Constitution until the illegal invasion of SOVEREIGN States Confederated in 1861?

we paid 90% of the bills for the national government in those years and saw all internal imporvrments made in the yankee States and all we got in return were high tariffs and yankee insolence.

turnabout, read reacharound, is only fair play.

[AZGrizFan]

Don't raise taxes and make the government more efficient and responsible with the money.

But you'll still have people who don't contribute in the form of income tax. This seems to be something that bothers you and other Conks a great deal. Are you ok with this?

You are blatantly incorrect. What BOTHERS me is that, despite the fact that I currently hand over 40% of my income to the federal government, they (and those that pay NO federal income taxes) still think that somehow I'm not paying "my fair share" and should, in fact, pay MORE while they continue to pay NOTHING.

The only reason the "47% of Americans pay no federal income taxes" even comes up is because there's constant discussion amongst the progressive mindset that those who ARE supporting the system should somehow support it MORE.

edit: I see DeathDealer beat me to it.

[UNI88]

But you'll still have people who don't contribute in the form of income tax. This seems to be something that bothers you and other Conks a great deal. Are you ok with this?

Ah, but that's where you are wrong. A) I'm not a Conk or whatever else you want to label people, and B) What bothers me is saying that I don't pay my fair shair when I already pay 40%, while so many people pay nothing. (and saying they pay payroll taxes is bullshit, because I'm not counting that in my percentage, so that's a wash)

DD, what do you think that % is when you add in FICA, Medicare, state & local property taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes etc.? If Donks can refute the 47% don't pay taxes by stating that most of those people do pay sales and other taxes then you can use those types of taxes as well. We need to compare apples to apples.

As Chizzang likes to say - the government doesn't have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem.

[Skjellyfetti]

Was Mitt Romney a Member of the 47 Percent?

Mitt Romney isn't a big fan of the 47 percent of people who pay no federal income tax. But there's a small problem. Romney himself might have been a member of the 47 percent as recently as 2009.

There's no shame in being a member of the 47 percent. At some point of our lives, almost all of us are. As my colleague Derek Thompson pointed out, it's mostly people who are too young, too old, or too poor who have no federal income tax liability. In other words, students, retirees, or the working poor -- particularly those with children who qualify for refundable tax credits. The chart below from the Hamilton Project -- look at the red line -- breaks down who does and does not pay federal income taxes by age. Notice how few people under 25 and over 60 pay federal income taxes.



This isn't a story about makers and takers. It's a story about undergraduates and pensioners.

But there's another group of people who don't pay federal income taxes. That's people who have had a bad year. Some of them have lost their jobs. Some of them have lost money on investments. In either case, they don't have much, or any, income to tax. And that brings us to Romney and 2009. As Joshua Green of Businesweek has speculated, it's possible that Romney suffered big enough losses during the 2008 market crash that he zeroed out his 2009 federal income tax liability. Of course, Romney has claimed that he never paid less than a 13 percent effective federal rate the last decade ... but he refuses to release any tax returns from before 2010. That's not to say that Romney is necessarily lying, just that we have no way to check. Consider that six of the top 400 tax filers -- a group making nearly ten times as much as Romney -- paid nothing in federal income taxes in 2009. It's certainly plausible that Romney was a member of the 47 percent in 2009.

Romney's comments about the 47 percent weren't just baffling because all of us are the 47 percent -- including, perhaps, himself. Romney's comments about the 47 percent were baffling because this is what Republicans wanted. As Ezra Klein notes, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush's tax cuts are why so many people don't pay federal income tax now. Refundable tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) are rightly thought of as good conservative tax policy by wonks like Reihan Salam. These credits help the poor, but don't reduce work incentives -- a point research has borne out.

In other words, the 47 percent exist mostly because of Republican policies with Democratic stamps of approval. And they exist because we pay different amount of taxes at different times in our lives. Sometimes we're in school. Sometimes we're out of work. Sometimes we retire from work. Republicans used to think it made sense for us to not pay federal income taxes at these times.

Apparently not anymore.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... nt/262519/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[death dealer]

Was Mitt Romney a Member of the 47 Percent?

Mitt Romney isn't a big fan of the 47 percent of people who pay no federal income tax. But there's a small problem. Romney himself might have been a member of the 47 percent as recently as 2009.

There's no shame in being a member of the 47 percent. At some point of our lives, almost all of us are. As my colleague Derek Thompson pointed out, it's mostly people who are too young, too old, or too poor who have no federal income tax liability. In other words, students, retirees, or the working poor -- particularly those with children who qualify for refundable tax credits. The chart below from the Hamilton Project -- look at the red line -- breaks down who does and does not pay federal income taxes by age. Notice how few people under 25 and over 60 pay federal income taxes.



This isn't a story about makers and takers. It's a story about undergraduates and pensioners.

But there's another group of people who don't pay federal income taxes. That's people who have had a bad year. Some of them have lost their jobs. Some of them have lost money on investments. In either case, they don't have much, or any, income to tax. And that brings us to Romney and 2009. As Joshua Green of Businesweek has speculated, it's possible that Romney suffered big enough losses during the 2008 market crash that he zeroed out his 2009 federal income tax liability. Of course, Romney has claimed that he never paid less than a 13 percent effective federal rate the last decade ... but he refuses to release any tax returns from before 2010. That's not to say that Romney is necessarily lying, just that we have no way to check. Consider that six of the top 400 tax filers -- a group making nearly ten times as much as Romney -- paid nothing in federal income taxes in 2009. It's certainly plausible that Romney was a member of the 47 percent in 2009.

Romney's comments about the 47 percent weren't just baffling because all of us are the 47 percent -- including, perhaps, himself. Romney's comments about the 47 percent were baffling because this is what Republicans wanted. As Ezra Klein notes, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush's tax cuts are why so many people don't pay federal income tax now. Refundable tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) are rightly thought of as good conservative tax policy by wonks like Reihan Salam. These credits help the poor, but don't reduce work incentives -- a point research has borne out.

In other words, the 47 percent exist mostly because of Republican policies with Democratic stamps of approval. And they exist because we pay different amount of taxes at different times in our lives. Sometimes we're in school. Sometimes we're out of work. Sometimes we retire from work. Republicans used to think it made sense for us to not pay federal income taxes at these times.

Apparently not anymore.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... nt/262519/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But it's not just those 400 that Democrats want to raise taxes on now is it? It's the guys like me.I really do feel that I pay enough into the system. You may disagree, but that really is irrelevant to me.

[OL FU]

Not real surprising. the states with the lowest mediun incomes and the lowest cost of living pay the lowest amounts of taxes.

On the other hand, could be those damn confederates would rather not work than pay the federal gubmint

[AZGrizFan]

six of the top 400 tax filers -- a group making nearly ten times as much as Romney -- paid nothing in federal income taxes in 2009.[/size][/b] It's certainly plausible that Romney was a member of the 47 percent in 2009.

So, 6 out of the top 400 (or 1.5%) filers didn't pay any federal income taxes in 2009 and this genius makes the leap of logic that it's "certainly plausible that Romney was a member of the 47%"?



Here's another stat for you: 100% of 47% Americans paid no federal income tax in 2009.

[89Hen]

BTW, 40% of Mississippi voted for Obama. I wonder if any of those 40% were part of the 45% that didn't pay taxes.

[BDKJMU]

NBC Link

From the Tax Policy Center:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopic ... eholds.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, who do y'all want to raise taxes on? The elderly or those making under $20,000?

According to that chart there are 28.3% non elderly, over 20k income paying zero income tax. Those folks should all be paying at least a small amount.

You could start by getting rid of the welfare check that is the EITC.

[CID1990]

Don't you have some Spanish verbs to conjugate?

Uds. deben volver a trabajo! Mis acciones están bajando. Pendejos!

[AZGrizFan]

BTW, 40% of Mississippi voted for Obama. I wonder if any of those 40% were part of the 45% that didn't pay taxes.

Yes. They were 40 of the 45%.

[Tod]

From the Tax Policy Center:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopic ... eholds.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, who do y'all want to raise taxes on? The elderly or those making under $20,000?

According to that chart there are 28.3% non elderly, over 20k income paying zero income tax. Those folks should all be paying at least a small amount.

You could start by getting rid of the welfare check that is the EITC.

The EITC - Brought to you by Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan.

[BDKJMU]

According to that chart there are 28.3% non elderly, over 20k income paying zero income tax. Those folks should all be paying at least a small amount.

You could start by getting rid of the welfare check that is the EITC.

The EITC - Brought to you by Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan.

Sure, it was in tax bills that Ford & Reagan signed. I don't know who came up with it and if it was a compromise for votes. Doesn't change the fact that is dumb to give people a bigger income tax refund than they actually pay in income taxes.

[JohnStOnge]

The map creates an exaggerated perception of variation by using dramatic colors to identify the top 10 and bottom 10. It creates the impression, for example, that Louisiana and Texas are substantially different than New York and California. Texas and Louisiana are each at 39%, New York is at 35%, and California is at 37%. Pretty similar.

If you're looking for a political take here is one: If nobody who has no federal income tax liability were allowed to vote, the Democrats would have no shot at winning the Presidency and Republicans would dominate both houses of Congress. Those in the low income demographic vote overwhelmingly Democrat on a consistent basis and there is no State on that list that has fewer than 21 percent, according to that article, who pay no Federal income taxes. Swing states like Ohio and Florida would suddenly become consistent, reliable, Republican voting States if those people couldn't vote.

[JohnStOnge]

If Donks can refute the 47% don't pay taxes by stating that most of those people do pay sales and other taxes then you can use those types of taxes as well. We need to compare apples to apples.

All of that doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming preponderance of the tax burden is carried by a relatively few people at the top while a very large percentage of the people carries, relatively, very little of the tax burden.

I've posted stuff on here before about how it looks when you consider all federal taxes including payroll taxes, etc. The picture doesn't change much from that you get when you just look at income taxes. And if you look at sales taxes and other taxes it's not going to change much either. You're still going to have the top 10 percent of income earners or so carrying the overwhelming preponderance of the load while the bottom 50 or 60 percent carries very little of it.

[CID1990]

I like pie.

[JohnStOnge]

The crux of what Romney said is absolutely true. We have reached a point in history where a large percentage of the citizens of the United States think they are entitled to have what they need. They think that if they need something and can't get it on their own that automatically means government is responsible for providing it to them. They think they have a "rights" to food, housing, health care, etc. Frankly, I think Romney underestimated the percentage when he put it at 47%.

And that entitlement mentality works to the advantage of the Democratic Party.

Where he is technically wrong is in saying that 100% of the 47% he was saying pay no income taxes would vote for Obama. It's probably more long the lines of 60% of that 47%. But he's basically right in saying that there is no incentive for people who don't pay income taxes to favor lower income taxes and in saying that there is a large percentage of Americans who have the entitlement mentality.

[kalm]

The crux of what Romney said is absolutely true. We have reached a point in history where a large percentage of the citizens of the United States think they are entitled to have what they need. They think that if they need something and can't get it on their own that automatically means government is responsible for providing it to them. They think they have a "rights" to food, housing, health care, etc. Frankly, I think Romney underestimated the percentage when he put it at 47%.

And that entitlement mentality works to the advantage of the Democratic Party.

Where he is technically wrong is in saying that 100% of the 47% he was saying pay no income taxes would vote for Obama. It's probably more long the lines of 60% of that 47%. But he's basically right in saying that there is no incentive for people who don't pay income taxes to favor lower income taxes and in saying that there is a large percentage of Americans who have the entitlement mentality.

The entitlement mentality transcends tax rate. There are a whole shit ton of well to do folks who get rich off the government. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[D1B]

The crux of what Romney said is absolutely true. We have reached a point in history where a large percentage of the citizens of the United States think they are entitled to have what they need. They think that if they need something and can't get it on their own that automatically means government is responsible for providing it to them. They think they have a "rights" to food, housing, health care, etc. Frankly, I think Romney underestimated the percentage when he put it at 47%.

And that entitlement mentality works to the advantage of the Democratic Party.

Where he is technically wrong is in saying that 100% of the 47% he was saying pay no income taxes would vote for Obama. It's probably more long the lines of 60% of that 47%. But he's basically right in saying that there is no incentive for people who don't pay income taxes to favor lower income taxes and in saying that there is a large percentage of Americans who have the entitlement mentality.

Okay, John, so where are the jobs? The vast majority of people would work their asses off if there were decent jobs. The wealthy have enjoyed decades of tax breaks now and corporations get more welfare than anyone.

So where are the jobs?

Aint it the deal that we'll give you capitalists and entrepreneurs our labor at a reasonable rate and a larger chunk of our shared cultural, scientific and natural resources, and in return you'll create industries and jobs that give us a decent standard of living?

So where are the jobs?

Don't you work for the government?

So where are the jobs?

Did the capitalists take the easy way out and dropped manufacturing for the fast and easy profits derived from money changing? They sure fucking did.

The biggest conk loudmouths here don't produce a fucking thing. They're all money handlers.

So where are the jobs? Conks.

[D1B]

The crux of what Romney said is absolutely true. We have reached a point in history where a large percentage of the citizens of the United States think they are entitled to have what they need. They think that if they need something and can't get it on their own that automatically means government is responsible for providing it to them. They think they have a "rights" to food, housing, health care, etc. Frankly, I think Romney underestimated the percentage when he put it at 47%.

And that entitlement mentality works to the advantage of the Democratic Party.

Where he is technically wrong is in saying that 100% of the 47% he was saying pay no income taxes would vote for Obama. It's probably more long the lines of 60% of that 47%. But he's basically right in saying that there is no incentive for people who don't pay income taxes to favor lower income taxes and in saying that there is a large percentage of Americans who have the entitlement mentality.

The entitlement mentality transcends tax rate. There are a whole shit ton of well to do folks who get rich off the government. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I bet half the conks here work for the government, got ahead only with the help of the government or work for a company that sucks gub tit.

Hypoconks.

[JohnStOnge]

he entitlement mentality transcends tax rate. There are a whole **** ton of well to do folks who get rich off the government.

Getting rich off the government isn't the same thing as the entitlement mentality I'm talking about. Give me an example you're thinking of and if I'm able to find this exchange again I'll comment on why. I'm about to go to bed so there's a chance that I'll come back looking for your example and not be able to find it. That's happened to me before. But give it a shot.

[ODUsmitty]

1. Unions killing jobs - companies offshoring operations.
2. EPA regulations killing coal, power, oil expoloration industries. announced today that 1200 coal jobs to be eliminated in VA, WV, PA. Does coal mined today burn less well than coal mined a decade ago. No, but the regulations surrounding its use have changed significantly.
3. THis administration's extension of unemployment benefits allowed those laid off to stay unemployed, vice taking jobs in less-desirable industries. Had UE expired in a reasonable timeframe, those lower-level jobs would have been filled by folks needing to make ends meet (vice having the remaining workers subsidize their inactivity).
4. Stimulus was idiotic. Have had a road in my community repaved 4 times in the past 3 years. Wonderful.
5. People are not retiring early enough. Older folks got burned with collapse of stock/housing market in 2008, and had to continue working. This kept jobs away from younger workers entering the workforce.
6. Health-care reform makes prospective employers wary of cost of adding manpower.

[kalm]

he entitlement mentality transcends tax rate. There are a whole **** ton of well to do folks who get rich off the government.

Getting rich off the government isn't the same thing as the entitlement mentality I'm talking about. Give me an example you're thinking of and if I'm able to find this exchange again I'll comment on why. I'm about to go to bed so there's a chance that I'll come back looking for your example and not be able to find it. That's happened to me before. But give it a shot.

A sense of entitlement in the land of opportunity has no bounds. There are countless examples, but let's start with members of congress, tax attorneys, trust fund children...