Student Loans

[kalm]

The DOE is forecast to see more profit off student loan debt this year then the most profitable private companies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb ... opular_art" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bronco]

-
That story doesn't make sense
Not that I don't believe everything BHO tells us

Student loan write-offs hit $3 billion in first two months of year

Chicago Tribune ^ | March 26, 2013 | Elvina Nawaguna, Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Banks wrote off $3 billion of student loan debt in the first two months of 2013, up more than 36 percent from the year-ago period, as many graduates remain jobless, underemployed or cash-strapped in a slow U.S. economic recovery, an Equifax study showed. The credit reporting agency also said Monday that student lending has grown from last year because more people are going back to school and the cost of higher education has risen. "Continued weakness in labor markets is limiting work options once people graduate or quit their programs, leading to a steady rise in delinquencies...

New Peril for Parents: Their Kids' Student Loans
Wall Street Journal ^ | 10/26/2012 | Kelly Greene

Cyndee Marcoux already was stretched thin, thanks to the $80,000 in student loans she racked up after getting divorced and going back to school a decade ago. Her breaking point came in 2010, when her daughter defaulted on student-loan payments of her own. That's because Ms. Marcoux, a 53-year-old library administrator in Seekonk, Mass., co-signed for about $55,000 of her daughter's loans. When the daughter was unable to keep making payments, Ms. Marcoux was on the hook—a burden that forced her to reshuffle her entire life. To scrape up the extra $550 a month she owed, she sold her house,...

College students learn of Obama's secret Pell Grant cuts
examiner.com ^ | 11/14/12 | Victor Medina


Sorry, college students. President Obama has cut your access to Pell Grants by 33%; he just forgot to mention it before Election Day.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...

[GannonFan]

So not only are college and universities robbing us blind, the government is in cohoots with them as well. Yes, I actually used the word cahoot.

This is like a raping of a generation going on here. You have misguided parents that steer their often overprivaleged kids to fancy colleges with a Starbucks in every building studying majors that have no tie-in with any actual job skill or job out there, they pay an absolute fortune for however long they are in school, and then sit there slackjawed when they can't find a job and have to start paying back the fortune they borrowed. What a broken system and unfortunately, the people who could make the changes are apparently too busy reaping the short tem monetary benefits of the status quo.

Soon we'll likely have a student loan amnesty program where we just wipe away all the student loan debt (well, by wipe away I mean all the taxpayers who don't have student loans will be forced to pay the bill for those who do) and we won't change the system that created this so we can go and do this all over again. Super.

[Pwns]

So not only are college and universities robbing us blind, the government is in cohoots with them as well. Yes, I actually used the word cahoot.

This is like a raping of a generation going on here. You have misguided parents that steer their often overprivaleged kids to fancy colleges with a Starbucks in every building studying majors that have no tie-in with any actual job skill or job out there, they pay an absolute fortune for however long they are in school, and then sit there slackjawed when they can't find a job and have to start paying back the fortune they borrowed. What a broken system and unfortunately, the people who could make the changes are apparently too busy reaping the short tem monetary benefits of the status quo.

Soon we'll likely have a student loan amnesty program where we just wipe away all the student loan debt (well, by wipe away I mean all the taxpayers who don't have student loans will be forced to pay the bill for those who do) and we won't change the system that created this so we can go and do this all over again. Super.

Don't blame the colleges, here. They are only responding to market forces. Schools with more amenities, more course offerings, more degree programs (multicultural comparative white guilt literature studies! yay!), and higher "rankings" (as a rule of thumb don't climb the rankings without spending more money) attract more applicants. Simple thought experiment: how many ads for four-year institutions have you seen that use affordable tuition as a sales pitch? Probably very few if any. The for-profit university ads all over the internet sure as hell don't.

Basically, you combine this seller's market of higher education with huge credit lines the federal government provides and the insane "you-are-a-loser-without-college-and-no-technical-schools-don't-count" crap that is hammered into the heads of high school students, you have the mess that we have today.

[GannonFan]

So not only are college and universities robbing us blind, the government is in cohoots with them as well. Yes, I actually used the word cahoot.

This is like a raping of a generation going on here. You have misguided parents that steer their often overprivaleged kids to fancy colleges with a Starbucks in every building studying majors that have no tie-in with any actual job skill or job out there, they pay an absolute fortune for however long they are in school, and then sit there slackjawed when they can't find a job and have to start paying back the fortune they borrowed. What a broken system and unfortunately, the people who could make the changes are apparently too busy reaping the short tem monetary benefits of the status quo.

Soon we'll likely have a student loan amnesty program where we just wipe away all the student loan debt (well, by wipe away I mean all the taxpayers who don't have student loans will be forced to pay the bill for those who do) and we won't change the system that created this so we can go and do this all over again. Super.

Don't blame the colleges, here. They are only responding to market forces. Schools with more amenities, more course offerings, more degree programs (multicultural comparative white guilt literature studies! yay!), and higher "rankings" (as a rule of thumb don't climb the rankings without spending more money) attract more applicants. Simple thought experiment: how many ads for four-year institutions have you seen that use affordable tuition as a sales pitch? Probably very few if any. The for-profit university ads all over the internet sure as hell don't.

Basically, you combine this seller's market of higher education with huge credit lines the federal government provides and the insane "you-are-a-loser-without-college-and-no-technical-schools-don't-count" crap that is hammered into the heads of high school students, you have the mess that we have today.

Why can't I blame the colleges? They're making record profits (and yes, virtually all colleges are "for profit" - the idea that only schools like Strayer and the University of Phoenix care about money is absurd - they all want as much money as they can get) and they are recognizing that they can keep getting more and more. They aren't just covering the costs of their fancy upgrades, they are blowing way past covering their expenses. Granted, they are doing what any entity should do when the government basically says "here, take all of this money" and that's what government has done by dishing out student loans in ever increasing amounts. Student financial aid funding goes up 5%, lo and behold college expenses and tuition go up by at least 5%. It's a simple transfer of taxpayer funds from the government to higher education. We start occupying public spaces when banks and Wall St do that, we pillory Big Oil when they do it, so why can't we criticize Big Education when they step up to the trough?

[Pwns]

Why can't I blame the colleges? They're making record profits (and yes, virtually all colleges are "for profit" - the idea that only schools like Strayer and the University of Phoenix care about money is absurd - they all want as much money as they can get) and they are recognizing that they can keep getting more and more. They aren't just covering the costs of their fancy upgrades, they are blowing way past covering their expenses. Granted, they are doing what any entity should do when the government basically says "here, take all of this money" and that's what government has done by dishing out student loans in ever increasing amounts. Student financial aid funding goes up 5%, lo and behold college expenses and tuition go up by at least 5%. It's a simple transfer of taxpayer funds from the government to higher education. We start occupying public spaces when banks and Wall St do that, we pillory Big Oil when they do it, so why can't we criticize Big Education when they step up to the trough?

GF, aren't you the one that says runaway healthcare costs are a result of too many people always wanting the best drugs and best doctors and best procedures with the best available technologies? In that respect, aren't the big profits of health insurance companies comparable to the record money that colleges bring in (BTW, I doubt most non-for-profit colleges have huge stashes of cash stowed away, in fact many of them have debts)?

When you blame colleges for high tuition prices, are you not using the same logic used to blame high healthcare costs on insurance companies?

[GannonFan]

Why can't I blame the colleges? They're making record profits (and yes, virtually all colleges are "for profit" - the idea that only schools like Strayer and the University of Phoenix care about money is absurd - they all want as much money as they can get) and they are recognizing that they can keep getting more and more. They aren't just covering the costs of their fancy upgrades, they are blowing way past covering their expenses. Granted, they are doing what any entity should do when the government basically says "here, take all of this money" and that's what government has done by dishing out student loans in ever increasing amounts. Student financial aid funding goes up 5%, lo and behold college expenses and tuition go up by at least 5%. It's a simple transfer of taxpayer funds from the government to higher education. We start occupying public spaces when banks and Wall St do that, we pillory Big Oil when they do it, so why can't we criticize Big Education when they step up to the trough?

GF, aren't you the one that says runaway healthcare costs are a result of too many people always wanting the best drugs and best doctors and best procedures with the best available technologies? In that respect, aren't the big profits of health insurance companies comparable to the record money that colleges bring in (BTW, I doubt most non-for-profit colleges have huge stashes of cash stowed away, in fact many of them have debts)?

When you blame colleges for high tuition prices, are you not using the same logic used to blame high healthcare costs on insurance companies?

Well, for one, I do blame, to some extent, insurance companies when it comes to healthcare costs. So I do blame others as well when it comes to soaring college tuitions. I clearly blamed goverment itself, and they're probably the biggest culprit in this since they keep that same sentiment that Tobey had in the "West Wing" when they came up with the great idea of "we could promise everyone $5000 to make college more affordable". Obviously, if everyone had that much money, it's simple economics that the costs of most things, college tuition in this case, would rise similarly. I also blame students and their parents - why anyone would pay upwards of $50k per year for any school, let alone the large number of schools like LaSalle or similar schools, and come out with a generic liberal study-type degree is beyond me. If I'm footing $200k or more in spending (and I wouldn't) I would certainly want something more tangible in terms of work goal than just holding an English degree.

But the other capricious thing about colleges in general is the self fulfilling aspect of them. Many colleges are very involved in the setting of educational requirements that various professions need to have in order to be employed in that profession. They therefore have a vested interest in stretching out the requirements so as to cast the widest net in terms of prospective students. A public school classroom teacher in PA, for instance, is required to attend x amount of hours in post graduate study over several years in order to remain being a teacher. They tend to get very little from these classes, but they are a sure way for colleges in the state to know that there is a pre set group of future students that will need their services. So colleges help to set the criteria for what education is needed in the workplace, and then they conveniently hang a shingle out advertising their supply of that education. Kinda like the same way that the folks on the right complained about insurance companies crafting a lot of the Obamacare legislation and then mandating that everyone have insurance. At least healthcare insurance didn't make everyone, until recently, have health insurance. But they took the idea from the Education field and made it their own. Shrewd.

[blueballs]

I've done some deals for college professors and they are cleaning up... all over $150k/yr with full benefits. What a fucking scam...

The only better gig I've seen is working at the post office. I pre-qualified a guy a couple of weeks ago that made $80k/yr with full benefits as a window clerk at the post office- in his own words "selling stamps." That job is worth a quarter of that in the private sector. I pre-qualified another lady who earned $88k last year delivering the mail.... and we all wonder why the USPS is broke.

The student loan debt check will come due in the next few years, and it will directly affect the housing and all housing related industries like furniture, hardware, lending, title, and all the subs and vendors. The mountain of student loan debt will mean more and more young people can't qualify for mortgages and it will really put the squeeze on the broader economy. It is coming folks... get ready.

[Ivytalk]

And the Great Circle of Life continues: people can't find jobs, so they go to college to get a degree that won't qualify them for any job, and they can't pay their loans back! Absurd in the Sartre sense.

[biobengal]

I've done some deals for college professors and they are cleaning up... all over $150k/yr with full benefits.

If anything, public college professors are underpaid, especially when compared to private college professors. Ultimately, I suspect your argument is related to your precious tax money funding those marxist liberal professors.

[kalm]

I've done some deals for college professors and they are cleaning up... all over $150k/yr with full benefits.

If anything, public college professors are underpaid, especially when compared to private college professors. Ultimately, I suspect your argument is related to your precious tax money funding those marxist liberal professors.

This.

My father was one of those evil, twisted ivory tower residents who trained 1000's of Eastern Washington kids to become the teachers that are educating area youth to this day. He didn't get rich off it, but cared deeply about his profession, worked his ass off, and was able to own a modest home, put his kid through school, and retire with dignity. Btw, he was a moderate Dem who voted for Reagan...and I'm guessing there were tons like him at directional universities throughout the land.

The over- paid teacher meme is one of the doofiest stereotypes out there. It reeks of ignorance, ungratefullness and class warfare.

[houndawg]

If anything, public college professors are underpaid, especially when compared to private college professors. Ultimately, I suspect your argument is related to your precious tax money funding those marxist liberal professors.

This.

My father was one of those evil, twisted ivory tower residents who trained 1000's of Eastern Washington kids to become the teachers that are educating area youth to this day. He didn't get rich off it, but cared deeply about his profession, worked his ass off, and was able to own a modest home, put his kid through school, and retire with dignity. Btw, he was a moderate Dem who voted for Reagan...and I'm guessing there were tons like him at directional universities throughout the land.

The over- paid teacher meme is one of the doofiest stereotypes out there. It reeks of ignorance, ungratefullness and class warfare.

College profs aren't rich, but they make enough to be able to have an opinion without fear of being on the street tomorrow if their employer doesn't agree. That kind of shit gives conks the vapors.

[YoUDeeMan]

This.

My father was one of those evil, twisted ivory tower residents who trained 1000's of Eastern Washington kids to become the teachers that are educating area youth to this day. He didn't get rich off it, but cared deeply about his profession, worked his ass off, and was able to own a modest home, put his kid through school, and retire with dignity. Btw, he was a moderate Dem who voted for Reagan...and I'm guessing there were tons like him at directional universities throughout the land.

The over- paid teacher meme is one of the doofiest stereotypes out there. It reeks of ignorance, ungratefullness and class warfare.

Things are a bit different now, kalm. Two of my in-laws are professors, as are most of my neighbors. Once they reach full professor, they suddenly teach only one, two max, classes per semester, with limited numbers of students...and they have assistants that do much of the teaching, and they all have profitable businesses on the side that are directly related to their teachings. Every...single...one...of...them...without...exception. Seriously, it is a game. They can't get fired and they go on cruise control. Once they have their classes set up the way they want to teach, they just walk through the motions and allow assitants to do the grunt work. And they find ways to limit the number of days they actually teach (finals for finals week...no way, that would mean the professor would not be able to get an early start on summer vacation).

The associate professors say they struggle with larger classes and fewer assistants. But the full professors are on easy street...no doubt about that.

[houndawg]

This.

My father was one of those evil, twisted ivory tower residents who trained 1000's of Eastern Washington kids to become the teachers that are educating area youth to this day. He didn't get rich off it, but cared deeply about his profession, worked his ass off, and was able to own a modest home, put his kid through school, and retire with dignity. Btw, he was a moderate Dem who voted for Reagan...and I'm guessing there were tons like him at directional universities throughout the land.

The over- paid teacher meme is one of the doofiest stereotypes out there. It reeks of ignorance, ungratefullness and class warfare.

Things are a bit different now, kalm. Two of my in-laws are professors, as are most of my neighbors. Once they reach full professor, they suddenly teach only one, two max, classes per semester, with limited numbers of students...and they have assistants that do much of the teaching, and they all have profitable businesses on the side that are directly related to their teachings. Every...single...one...of...them...without...exception. Seriously, it is a game. They can't get fired and they go on cruise control. Once they have their classes set up the way they want to teach, they just walk through the motions and allow assitants to do the grunt work. And they find ways to limit the number of days they actually teach (finals for finals week...no way, that would mean the professor would not be able to get an early start on summer vacation).

The associate professors say they struggle with larger classes and fewer assistants. But the full professors are on easy street...no doubt about that.

Where does this nonsense that professors can't be fired come from? Professors get fired all the time, including full profs.

[GannonFan]

I agree with Cluck here. Full time college professors are almost working at a retirement pace yet getting a pretty good salary. I've never considered college professors as the beaten down masses that a few have tried to paint them as here. Sure, like in any profession, there are exceptions, but a considerable majority work a ridiculously light work load and pull in large salaries. They are certainly some of the reason why colleges are vastly overpriced today and clearly part of the beneficiaries of that economic pillaging going on.

[houndawg]

I agree with Cluck here. Full time college professors are almost working at a retirement pace yet getting a pretty good salary. I've never considered college professors as the beaten down masses that a few have tried to paint them as here. Sure, like in any profession, there are exceptions, but a considerable majority work a ridiculously light work load and pull in large salaries. They are certainly some of the reason why colleges are vastly overpriced today and clearly part of the beneficiaries of that economic pillaging going on.

Could you define the terms "considerable majority", "ridiculously light work load", and "large salaries"?

I haven't seen anyone here trying to portray them as the beaten down masses. Just the opposite.

[HI54UNI]

This.

My father was one of those evil, twisted ivory tower residents who trained 1000's of Eastern Washington kids to become the teachers that are educating area youth to this day. He didn't get rich off it, but cared deeply about his profession, worked his ass off, and was able to own a modest home, put his kid through school, and retire with dignity. Btw, he was a moderate Dem who voted for Reagan...and I'm guessing there were tons like him at directional universities throughout the land.

The over- paid teacher meme is one of the doofiest stereotypes out there. It reeks of ignorance, ungratefullness and class warfare.

Things are a bit different now, kalm. Two of my in-laws are professors, as are most of my neighbors. Once they reach full professor, they suddenly teach only one, two max, classes per semester, with limited numbers of students...and they have assistants that do much of the teaching, and they all have profitable businesses on the side that are directly related to their teachings. Every...single...one...of...them...without...exception. Seriously, it is a game. They can't get fired and they go on cruise control. Once they have their classes set up the way they want to teach, they just walk through the motions and allow assitants to do the grunt work. And they find ways to limit the number of days they actually teach (finals for finals week...no way, that would mean the professor would not be able to get an early start on summer vacation).

The associate professors say they struggle with larger classes and fewer assistants. But the full professors are on easy street...no doubt about that.

You forgot the paid sabbaticals too.....

[houndawg]

Things are a bit different now, kalm. Two of my in-laws are professors, as are most of my neighbors. Once they reach full professor, they suddenly teach only one, two max, classes per semester, with limited numbers of students...and they have assistants that do much of the teaching, and they all have profitable businesses on the side that are directly related to their teachings. Every...single...one...of...them...without...exception. Seriously, it is a game. They can't get fired and they go on cruise control. Once they have their classes set up the way they want to teach, they just walk through the motions and allow assitants to do the grunt work. And they find ways to limit the number of days they actually teach (finals for finals week...no way, that would mean the professor would not be able to get an early start on summer vacation).

The associate professors say they struggle with larger classes and fewer assistants. But the full professors are on easy street...no doubt about that.

You forgot the paid sabbaticals too.....

Are you saying that they don't do research during a paid sabbatical in the land of Publish or Perish?

[YoUDeeMan]

Where does this nonsense that professors can't be fired come from? Professors get fired all the time, including full profs.

Sure, schools terminate (or do not renew the contracts of) professors that do not have tenure. Those folks fully know they signed up for such a non-tenured, short-term position, so there is no surprise there. They aren't really "fired" in that sense.

However, tenured full professors rarely get fired...short of a murder conviction.

If you have proof that tenured full professors get routinely terminated, post your link.

[houndawg]

Where does this nonsense that professors can't be fired come from? Professors get fired all the time, including full profs.

Sure, schools terminate (or do not renew the contracts of) professors that do not have tenure. Those folks fully know they signed up for such a non-tenured, short-term position, so there is no surprise there. They aren't really "fired" in that sense.

However, tenured full professors rarely get fired...short of a murder conviction.

If you have proof that tenured full professors get routinely terminated, post your link.

What happened to "they can't be fired"?

[kalm]

You forgot the paid sabbaticals too.....

Are you saying that they don't do research during a paid sabbatical in the land of Publish or Perish?

Yeah but research and publishing isn't really "work". Sabbaticals are really just like a paid vacation and writing books is a hobby.

And how dare some of them moonlight in the private sector...contributing to the economy...acting like capitalists...gaining valuable real world insight which they can pass on to the kids.

[D1B]

This.

My father was one of those evil, twisted ivory tower residents who trained 1000's of Eastern Washington kids to become the teachers that are educating area youth to this day. He didn't get rich off it, but cared deeply about his profession, worked his ass off, and was able to own a modest home, put his kid through school, and retire with dignity. Btw, he was a moderate Dem who voted for Reagan...and I'm guessing there were tons like him at directional universities throughout the land.

The over- paid teacher meme is one of the doofiest stereotypes out there. It reeks of ignorance, ungratefullness and class warfare.

College profs aren't rich, but they make enough to be able to have an opinion without fear of being on the street tomorrow if their employer doesn't agree. That kind of shit gives conks the vapors.

[houndawg]

Where does this nonsense that professors can't be fired come from? Professors get fired all the time, including full profs.

Sure, schools terminate (or do not renew the contracts of) professors that do not have tenure. Those folks fully know they signed up for such a non-tenured, short-term position, so there is no surprise there. They aren't really "fired" in that sense.

However, tenured full professors rarely get fired...short of a murder conviction.

If you have proof that tenured full professors get routinely terminated, post your link.

Tenure means that you can't be fired without cause, and that you are guaranteed a hearing in front of your peers. Granted, to the overwheling majority of job holders that seems like you cant be fired. There are many ways short of your claim about a murder conviction being the only way. Sexual harassment, moral turpitude....University of South Florida lists 14 ways to get fired if you have tenure. I'll let you do your own leg work, the facts are readily available.

You have a good point about many full profs slacking off at the end of their careers teaching-load wise, but that isn't much different than the coroporate exec types that hang around for even bigger salaries, and bonuses, long after their productive years.

[Ibanez]

I agree with Cluck here. Full time college professors are almost working at a retirement pace yet getting a pretty good salary. I've never considered college professors as the beaten down masses that a few have tried to paint them as here. Sure, like in any profession, there are exceptions, but a considerable majority work a ridiculously light work load and pull in large salaries. They are certainly some of the reason why colleges are vastly overpriced today and clearly part of the beneficiaries of that economic pillaging going on.

Gotta agree here. From my experience, my father in law is a professor at a local college. He's tenured, carries 4 classes a semester including various events for the local community and training teams for national competitions. He doesn't earn 6 figures and while this state has wasted money on other projects, him and his colleagues haven't had a raise in 4 years. But his area, they keep on going, educating the young and hoping to truly make a difference. There are some that show up just to collect a paycheck. Every school has the good and bad but I think the bad teachers are the norm.

[houndawg]

This.

My father was one of those evil, twisted ivory tower residents who trained 1000's of Eastern Washington kids to become the teachers that are educating area youth to this day. He didn't get rich off it, but cared deeply about his profession, worked his ass off, and was able to own a modest home, put his kid through school, and retire with dignity. Btw, he was a moderate Dem who voted for Reagan...and I'm guessing there were tons like him at directional universities throughout the land.

The over- paid teacher meme is one of the doofiest stereotypes out there. It reeks of ignorance, ungratefullness and class warfare.

Things are a bit different now, kalm. Two of my in-laws are professors, as are most of my neighbors. Once they reach full professor, they suddenly teach only one, two max, classes per semester, with limited numbers of students...and they have assistants that do much of the teaching, and they all have profitable businesses on the side that are directly related to their teachings. Every...single...one...of...them...without...exception. Seriously, it is a game. They can't get fired and they go on cruise control. Once they have their classes set up the way they want to teach, they just walk through the motions and allow assitants to do the grunt work. And they find ways to limit the number of days they actually teach (finals for finals week...no way, that would mean the professor would not be able to get an early start on summer vacation).

The associate professors say they struggle with larger classes and fewer assistants. But the full professors are on easy street...no doubt about that.

Why would they need a profitable bidniz on the side when they already make astronomical pay and bennies?