2013 NFC B/West Thread

[Mvemjsunpx]

Have you officially made that your catchphrase yet?

Have I said that a lot?

I don't know. I was just referring to your tendency toward absolute certainty when you predict things involving teams you're a fan of.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Have I said that a lot?

I don't know. I was just referring to your tendency toward absolute certainty when you predict things involving teams you're a fan of.

No way I do that.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Russell must've taken his car keys.

[rkwittem]

I REALLY want to pick St. Louis to win the division, but I don't trust them completely yet. I'm not worried about Bradford...but I am worried about his offensive line. The running game is also a concern but I think Zac Stacy could have an Alfred Morris-type season. I love his game. He's only 5-8, but he's 215 pounds and he's ran well in the SEC behind Vandy's offensive line. His vision and running instincts are good. I expect the combination of Stacy, Daryl Richardson (a homeless man's Chris Johnson), and Isaiah Pead should be enough to be a competent rushing attack.
As for the wide receivers, losing Amendola is not much of a loss. Adding Tavon Austin, improvement from Chris Givens, Austin Pettis, and Brian Quick, plus additions of Jared Cook and Stedman Bailey will give Bradford the most well-rounded collection of wideouts he's ever had. I'm especially intrigued by reports that the Rams are shifting their offense to a version of the 2008 Oklahoma Sooners offense. Essentially it's a pro-style hurry-up. And I expect it to work. Bradford loved that offense in college and he's finally got players that can do it. The Rams can play pretty much any personnel they want to. They can go 2 TE with Cook and Kendricks or 4 wides with Austin, Bailey, Givens, and Quick, or any combination thereof. This, coupled with the diverse collection of talents in the backfield has me excited for St. Louis's potential. Their defense is of course fantastic. They have few flaws. I loved the Ogletree draft pick. Jeff Fisher is one of my favorite coaches in the league. I might be wrong but the Rams are maybe the only team that knows how to, and can, beat the 49ers and Seahawks. That's all Jeff Fisher's doing, IMO. If Bradford improves markedly (to the point where he is referred to routinely by ESPN, CBS, Fox, NBC on a national level in-season)...either the Seahawks or 49ers will miss the playoffs with the Rams taking their spot.

With all this being said, that's an overly optimistic take on St. Louis. I don't expect Bradford to improve markedly, unless Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey turn out to be the next Percy Harvin and Greg Jennings (their NFL comparisons in the predraft process). I also expect their offensive line to cost the Rams a few games. anything from 7 to 11 wins at the high end is reasonable, but that won't be enough, IMO.

Seattle 13-3
SF 12-4
St. Louis 10-6
Arizona 5-11

And to address another question, Harbaugh is unquestionably a better coach than Pete Carroll, both collegiately and professionally. Harbaugh won at Stanford when they sucked and beat Carroll soundly when he was there. Pete has the college hardware but he took chicken salad and made it into better chicken salad. (Winning at USC is easier). Harbaugh took Stanford's chicken shit and made chicken salad out of it. That's why Stanford is still good and USC sucks now.
As for their pro resumes, Harbaugh has 2 NFC Championship game appearances as well as a Super Bowl appearance. Carroll has neither, if memory serves. Undoubtedly SE will correct me if I'm wrong and probably take it personally if so...

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Harbaugh is a better coach, but I wouldn't say by a much. Harbaugh took a 1-11 Stanford team and turned it into a 12-1 team in four years. Carroll took over a 5-7 team and turned it into a 11-2 team in two years. If you want to use the chicken salad argument about their college teams before and after, then the same could be said about their NFL teams before and after. SF didn't need to be rebuilt; that roster was full of early round picks that Singletary couldn't make use of, whereas Carroll completely rebuilt the Seahawks roster into a contender. DT/DE Red Bryant, C Max Unger, and P Jon Ryan are the only current Hawks that were on the roster in 2009, IRCC.

The Rams are a year or two away from contending for the division, IMO. If everything goes right, they could earn the second Wildcard in the NFC though. NFCW is stacked... even Arizona should be right around a .500 team with a competent QB throwing to that WR corps.

[rkwittem]

Harbaugh is a better coach, but I wouldn't say by a much. Harbaugh took a 1-11 Stanford team and turned it into a 12-1 team in four years. Carroll took over a 5-7 team and turned it into a 11-2 team in two years. If you want to use the chicken salad argument about their college teams before and after, then the same could be said about their NFL teams before and after. SF didn't need to be rebuilt; that roster was full of early round picks that Singletary couldn't make use of, whereas Carroll completely rebuilt the Seahawks roster into a contender. DT/DE Red Bryant, C Max Unger, and P Jon Ryan are the only current Hawks that were on the roster in 2009, IRCC.

The Rams are a year or two away from contending for the division, IMO. If everything goes right, they could earn the second Wildcard in the NFC though. NFCW is stacked... even Arizona should be right around a .500 team with a competent QB throwing to that WR corps.

No, you can't. Building a college program and building a NFL winner are 2 totally different processes. The NFL has a level playing field. NCAA does not. Stanford is not anywhere close to USC in terms of fan support, alumni $$$, and proximity to top-shelf DI talent.

Also, saw that Harvin's banged up...already. Big shocker.

[clenz]

Anyone else not shocked that Harvin is hurt?

No?

Get used to it Seattle...he's you headache (pun intended) now

quando omni flunkus moritati

[SuperHornet]

Not exactly, rk. NFL coaches do NOT start out equal with every other NFL coach. Their hands are tied by the talent brought in, and that's a function of two variables: the amount of $$ the owner is willing to spend (the NFL does NOT have a salary floor) and the football intelligence of the GM. An indirect variable is how well the GM gets along with the coach; a rocky relationship often leads to poor records, regardless of the talent on the team. At the college level, however, it's all directly tied to the coach: who he recruits related to his coaching philosophy, and how well he sells the program to those recruits. So, you're correct to say that coaching in each realm is different, but you're wrong on the reasoning, IMO.

[SuperHornet]

Watch out for St. Louis special teams to kick butt; they have the best coordinator in the league. Of course, that's only 1/3 of the game, so I reserve judgment on the Rams until I see the rest of the team in action.

The 49ers are in deep doo-doo right now, though. A DB is HIGHLY upset with his contract (though he clearly should have read it himself; kinda sounds like the idiots foisting ObamaCare on us) after the base salary spike he THOUGHT he'd earned to nearly $3M was voided by the team when he failed to go to a meeting. He has since fired his agent. Many athletes in his situation would sulk, thereby inhibiting team performance. It remains to be seen whether or not that happens. Whether he does or not, though, this WILL be a distraction for the team.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Harbaugh is a better coach, but I wouldn't say by a much. Harbaugh took a 1-11 Stanford team and turned it into a 12-1 team in four years. Carroll took over a 5-7 team and turned it into a 11-2 team in two years. If you want to use the chicken salad argument about their college teams before and after, then the same could be said about their NFL teams before and after. SF didn't need to be rebuilt; that roster was full of early round picks that Singletary couldn't make use of, whereas Carroll completely rebuilt the Seahawks roster into a contender. DT/DE Red Bryant, C Max Unger, and P Jon Ryan are the only current Hawks that were on the roster in 2009, IRCC.

The Rams are a year or two away from contending for the division, IMO. If everything goes right, they could earn the second Wildcard in the NFC though. NFCW is stacked... even Arizona should be right around a .500 team with a competent QB throwing to that WR corps.

No, you can't. Building a college program and building a NFL winner are 2 totally different processes. The NFL has a level playing field. NCAA does not. Stanford is not anywhere close to USC in terms of fan support, alumni $$$, and proximity to top-shelf DI talent.

Also, saw that Harvin's banged up...already. Big shocker.

Disagree with everything other than fan support (as if it matters much in relation to success on the field anyway). Stanford has quite the successful and extensive alumni base, and certainly isn't hurting for money. The proximity to top-shelf recruits argument is bogus. Proximity matters very little when it comes to premier BCS recruiting. Most of that talent comes from Texas (Andrew Luck) and Florida.

Regardless, my point still stands; Harbaugh had a loaded cupboard when he took the reins in SF, whereas Pete Carroll completely rebuilt Seattle's roster, largely with scraps from other teams (Michael Robinson - SF, Chris Clemons - PHI, Brandon Browner - CFL), and late round steals (Richard Sherman - 5th, Kam Chancellor - 5th, Russell Wilson - 3rd). Just as Harbaugh deserves the credit for rebuilding Stanford into a winner and excellent coaching of SF's talent, Pete deserves the credit for rebuilding the Seahawks into a winner and excellent coaching of USC's talent.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Anyone else not shocked that Harvin is hurt?

No?

Get used to it Seattle...he's you headache (pun intended) now

quando omni flunkus moritati

I am. Before last year's ankle injury, he had only missed 3 out of 48 games. That doesn't scream injury prone. It remains to be seen if he'll miss any games this year... he was running full speed just days ago. Now James Carpenter and Walter Thurmond... they are injury prone.

[SuperHornet]

No, you can't. Building a college program and building a NFL winner are 2 totally different processes. The NFL has a level playing field. NCAA does not. Stanford is not anywhere close to USC in terms of fan support, alumni $$$, and proximity to top-shelf DI talent.

Also, saw that Harvin's banged up...already. Big shocker.

Disagree with everything other than fan support (as if it matters much in relation to success on the field anyway). Stanford has quite the successful and extensive alumni base, and certainly isn't hurting for money. The proximity to top-shelf recruits argument is bogus. Proximity matters very little when it comes to premier BCS recruiting. Most of that talent comes from Texas (Andrew Luck) and Florida.

Regardless, my point still stands; Harbaugh had a loaded cupboard when he took the reins in SF, whereas Pete Carroll completely rebuilt Seattle's roster, largely with scraps from other teams (Michael Robinson - SF, Chris Clemons - PHI, Brandon Browner - CFL), and late round steals (Richard Sherman - 5th, Kam Chancellor - 5th, Russell Wilson - 3rd). Just as Harbaugh deserves the credit for rebuilding Stanford into a winner and excellent coaching of SF's talent, Pete deserves the credit for rebuilding the Seahawks into a winner and excellent coaching of USC's talent.

Agree with just about everything you say here, SE. Except for describing Wilson as a "late-round steal." Many great quarterbacks have been drafted in the third round, notably Joe Montana. (Not that Wilson has qualified for a comparison to Montana; he hasn't been around long enough yet.) For me, a "late-round steal" would be anything, oh, say, fifth round on. Other than that, you are spot on here.

[uofmman1122]

The 49ers are in deep doo-doo right now, though. A DB is HIGHLY upset with his contract (though he clearly should have read it himself; kinda sounds like the idiots foisting ObamaCare on us) after the base salary spike he THOUGHT he'd earned to nearly $3M was voided by the team when he failed to go to a meeting. He has since fired his agent. Many athletes in his situation would sulk, thereby inhibiting team performance. It remains to be seen whether or not that happens. Whether he does or not, though, this WILL be a distraction for the team.

More wishful thinking, just like how you said Alex Smith would never lose his job, Kaepernick would never be good, and the 49ers would never make the Super Bowl last year.

[clenz]

Anyone else not shocked that Harvin is hurt?

No?

Get used to it Seattle...he's you headache (pun intended) now

quando omni flunkus moritati

I am. Before last year's ankle injury, he had only missed 3 out of 48 games. That doesn't scream injury prone. It remains to be seen if he'll miss any games this year... he was running full speed just days ago. Now James Carpenter and Walter Thurmond... they are injury prone.

The dude is always hurt/bitching/complaining/not sure he will play. He never practiced in Minnesota because of one ailment or another. Anytime he was called on his he threw a giant media bitch fit about how he wasn't being treated fairly.

Harvin is a locker room cancer but the Vikings, and us as fans, were willing to put up with it because of his talent. However, at some point the cancer over takes the good.

Say what you want about Ponder not being a great QB yet (maybe ever), but the way Percy treated/talked to/about Ponder did nothing but stunt his growth. Ponder was so fixated on keeping Percy happy (not possible by the way) that he didn't read his options and just focused on Percy.

Along with the keeping him happy....he has a huge issue with authority and has never respected any coach (except Urban Meyer who let him do what ever he wanted with no repercussions. If you doubt that look at all of the issues that are now coming out from everywhere Urban has been. The number of arrests/issues that were covered up and never addressed http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2 ... news-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). He punched an official in high school, he beat up his WR coach at Florida (mentioned in the article above as well as many other if you google it), He had to be restrained from beating Brad Childress up in the locker room, and similar stories about Leslie Frazier.

Another reason the Vikings were happy to see him go? He isn't a #1 WR but thinks he needs #1 money. Do you really think a slot WR is worth 67 million? Had he stayed in Minnesota he would have done nothing except bitch about his contract this year, and not resign when he was a free agent. Why not get something for him, especially a first round pick that was used on a great prospect CB...a position the Vikings really need help at. He doens’t impact the game the way a #1 receiver or a great running back like Adrian Peterson or a great QB like Tom Brady impacts the game. He is a #2 weapon on a good offense. He is unique and talented but he is not top-of-the-line in terms of value. That’s just the truth. He doesn't stretch the field, he isn't a real redzone threat most of the time, and doesn't really get into the end zone all that frequently (averages 5 receiving TD's a year, less than 1 rushing TD per year, and 1 return TD per year...so 6 or 7 TD's per season). Never had more than 87 catches in a season, averages just 11 yards per reception and 60 yards per game.


If Seattle wants to pay that 67 million dollars go for it.


I guess Seattle is going to show the Vikings what their missing with Percy...just like they did with Sydney Rice (who has still only ever had 1 good season and that was in Minnesota with 83 catches and was book ended with seasons of 15 and 13 catches...He had more catches in 2009 with MN than he has in both years in Seattle combined). I shouldn't be suprised your willing to pay Percy 67 million, you're paying Sydney 8.5 million this coming season. Oh, and just like how Tarvaris didn't get a fair shake in Minnesota and was going to be an above average QB in Seattle and prove the Vikings wrong....and he just admitted he isn't playing football to play/get better. The only reason he resigned with Seattle was to collect a pay check.

[rkwittem]

No, you can't. Building a college program and building a NFL winner are 2 totally different processes. The NFL has a level playing field. NCAA does not. Stanford is not anywhere close to USC in terms of fan support, alumni $$$, and proximity to top-shelf DI talent.

Also, saw that Harvin's banged up...already. Big shocker.

Disagree with everything other than fan support (as if it matters much in relation to success on the field anyway). Stanford has quite the successful and extensive alumni base, and certainly isn't hurting for money. The proximity to top-shelf recruits argument is bogus. Proximity matters very little when it comes to premier BCS recruiting. Most of that talent comes from Texas (Andrew Luck) and Florida.

Regardless, my point still stands; Harbaugh had a loaded cupboard when he took the reins in SF, whereas Pete Carroll completely rebuilt Seattle's roster, largely with scraps from other teams (Michael Robinson - SF, Chris Clemons - PHI, Brandon Browner - CFL), and late round steals (Richard Sherman - 5th, Kam Chancellor - 5th, Russell Wilson - 3rd). Just as Harbaugh deserves the credit for rebuilding Stanford into a winner and excellent coaching of SF's talent, Pete deserves the credit for rebuilding the Seahawks into a winner and excellent coaching of USC's talent.

I'm sorry, was Stanford selling out before they got Harbaugh? What, they weren't? Case closed. Ticket sales drive revenue for football programs at all levels of college football, more so at the top. Money is crucial for success in college football. It should be no surprise that Tennessee football has go to hell since Philip Fulmer left. Their program was in HUGE debt recently. No money = weak recruiting = weak teams = less money = less wins over time. That's how it works. Money greases the engines of every major college program.

Proximity DOES matter...maybe not so much for Stanford but you've got to be kidding me if you think that the SEC wins because they dominate Texas and Florida (only Florida). And how many guys does Stanford have from Florida on their roster? 4...tops? Any? I don't care to look. But I bet not too many. No, proximity is HUGE for programs. That's why the Big Ten blows right now. The only states in that conference that put out decent numbers of BCS-caliber recruits regularly are Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan, in that order. Ohio State and Michigan clean up there and leave the scraps for the rest of the conference. This is a major difference betweeen them and the SEC. In the SEC, you have Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Florida and the Carolinas to recruit from...and with A&M on board, east Texas is more open too. Alabama does most of its recruiting in Georgia, Alabama and Florida. Georgia does its recruiting in Georgia, Florida and the Carolinas. Plenty of good teams don't even bother with Texas. Ohio State didn't recruit Texas heavily under Tressel. Penn State didn't under Paterno. LSU and Arkansas were the only 2 SEC teams with strong Texas presences prior to A&M's arrival and the majority of the Pac-12 doesn't recruit Texas. Teams that don't have immediate, close access to top-shelf players (i.e. a "pipeline") have to recruit nationally. It is a farce to assume that location doesn't matter. Why do you think Oregon recruits Texas so hard? Or Nebraska? Or Kansas State? The top talent states are Texas, California, Florida, Ohio, Georgia..with maybe a couple others (Pennsylvania and maybe a few others like New Jersey, Alabama, and Maryland/Virginia thrown in) as the top ones.

All that means really is that Stanford was NOT a "premier" BCS recruiter prior to Harbaugh. They have to recruit out of area because NoCal isn't nearly as loaded with top-end talent as southern Cal and those other states I mentioned are.

Chris Clemons wasn't a "scrap" player when he left Philly. And the 3rd round is a "late" round? Really? I'll give you the others but the notion of the 3rd round as a late round in a 7-round draft amuses me. Anything to make Russ sound better...gotta love homers.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

For any other position 3rd round isn't late, but for QBs, who are constantly overdrafted (Ponder, Gabbert, Tebow, Locker, Tannehill, etc), finding one in the middle of the 3rd is pretty late, and most definitely a steal.

My point was that proximity doesn't really matter in regards to Stanford vs. USC... it's not like SoCal is all that far from the bay area... both schools heavily recruit up and down the state.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I am. Before last year's ankle injury, he had only missed 3 out of 48 games. That doesn't scream injury prone. It remains to be seen if he'll miss any games this year... he was running full speed just days ago. Now James Carpenter and Walter Thurmond... they are injury prone.

Spoiler: show

The dude is always hurt/bitching/complaining/not sure he will play. He never practiced in Minnesota because of one ailment or another. Anytime he was called on his he threw a giant media bitch fit about how he wasn't being treated fairly.

Harvin is a locker room cancer but the Vikings, and us as fans, were willing to put up with it because of his talent. However, at some point the cancer over takes the good.

Say what you want about Ponder not being a great QB yet (maybe ever), but the way Percy treated/talked to/about Ponder did nothing but stunt his growth. Ponder was so fixated on keeping Percy happy (not possible by the way) that he didn't read his options and just focused on Percy.

Along with the keeping him happy....he has a huge issue with authority and has never respected any coach (except Urban Meyer who let him do what ever he wanted with no repercussions. If you doubt that look at all of the issues that are now coming out from everywhere Urban has been. The number of arrests/issues that were covered up and never addressed http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2 ... news-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). He punched an official in high school, he beat up his WR coach at Florida (mentioned in the article above as well as many other if you google it), He had to be restrained from beating Brad Childress up in the locker room, and similar stories about Leslie Frazier.

Another reason the Vikings were happy to see him go? He isn't a #1 WR but thinks he needs #1 money. Do you really think a slot WR is worth 67 million? Had he stayed in Minnesota he would have done nothing except bitch about his contract this year, and not resign when he was a free agent. Why not get something for him, especially a first round pick that was used on a great prospect CB...a position the Vikings really need help at. He doens’t impact the game the way a #1 receiver or a great running back like Adrian Peterson or a great QB like Tom Brady impacts the game. He is a #2 weapon on a good offense. He is unique and talented but he is not top-of-the-line in terms of value. That’s just the truth. He doesn't stretch the field, he isn't a real redzone threat most of the time, and doesn't really get into the end zone all that frequently (averages 5 receiving TD's a year, less than 1 rushing TD per year, and 1 return TD per year...so 6 or 7 TD's per season). Never had more than 87 catches in a season, averages just 11 yards per reception and 60 yards per game.


If Seattle wants to pay that 67 million dollars go for it.


I guess Seattle is going to show the Vikings what their missing with Percy...just like they did with Sydney Rice (who has still only ever had 1 good season and that was in Minnesota with 83 catches and was book ended with seasons of 15 and 13 catches...He had more catches in 2009 with MN than he has in both years in Seattle combined). I shouldn't be suprised your willing to pay Percy 67 million, you're paying Sydney 8.5 million this coming season. Oh, and just like how Tarvaris didn't get a fair shake in Minnesota and was going to be an above average QB in Seattle and prove the Vikings wrong....and he just admitted he isn't playing football to play/get better. The only reason he resigned with Seattle was to collect a pay check.

Tell us how you really feel.

Is he overpaid? Probably. Is he a dynamic player that requires special attention by defenses allowing for other guys on offense to be more productive? Most certainly. The notion that he doesn't stretch the field is silly. He's one of the 3 fastest guys on the field nearly every Sunday. Minnesota didn't use him as a deep threat because there were no other weapons to draw attention other than maybe Rudolph; defenses could just key on Harvin and Peterson. Not to mention his greatest strength is his athleticism in making defenders miss by getting him the ball in space, hence why he's primarily used in the slot and on bubble screens and reverses.

[rkwittem]

For any other position 3rd round isn't late, but for QBs, who are constantly overdrafted (Ponder, Gabbert, Tebow, Locker, Tannehill, etc), finding one in the middle of the 3rd is pretty late, and most definitely a steal.

My point was that proximity doesn't really matter in regards to Stanford vs. USC... it's not like SoCal is all that far from the bay area... both schools heavily recruit up and down the state.

That's a weak argument. A late round is a late round- the 3rd isn't one, regardless of position. What's Tom Brady, then? A UDFA? We get it, Russell Wilson was a great story and is a fine player. Stop building him up unnecessarily. Sure, he's a "steal." Whatever. Aaron Rodgers was a steal. Drew Brees was a steal. It happens.
The QB's you listed for being over drafted have only been taken in the last 3/4 years. I could sit here and argue sample size all day long. I'm sure if I dug through NFL drafts I could find a bunch of "late round" QB gems.


Stanford can't go into SoCal and just pluck guys. They need to fit Stanford....especially the Harbaugh-Shaw iterations. Mostly, I'm referring to academics, but they've developed a propensity for the power-style type of player.

[rkwittem]

Along with the keeping him happy....he has a huge issue with authority and has never respected any coach (except Urban Meyer who let him do what ever he wanted with no repercussions. If you doubt that look at all of the issues that are now coming out from everywhere Urban has been. The number of arrests/issues that were covered up and never addressed http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2 ... news-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). He punched an official in high school, he beat up his WR coach at Florida (mentioned in the article above as well as many other if you google it), He had to be restrained from beating Brad Childress up in the locker room, and similar stories about Leslie Frazier....

Wow. Just wow. Keep your anti-Urban Meyer/Ohio State rhetoric to yourself. That article is almost 1.5 years old. And don't say "I didn't bring up Ohio State," I know that's part of your beef with Urban Meyer. You yourself told me last fall that you liked Michigan. So you're obviously biased. That however, isn't my issue with your claims. I will ignore that stuff.
Just because certain events and issues cropped up and you didn't hear about them doesn't mean they were "covered up" or "never addressed." Unless you worked at Florida under Meyer or in their athletic department, you and Matt Hayes have no clue what you're talking about. I'm sure that someone dealt with them...probably a Tim Tebow/Brandon Spikes/Charlie Strong/Dan Mullen/Mickey Marotti-type guy. Maybe Urban did grill him, who knows....I don't claim to and it's foolish for you to as well. It's dumb for Matt Hayes to. He has had a bone to pick with Ohio State for awhile and seeing Urban leave his beloved Florida Gators

Maybe Harvin liked Meyer because Meyer treats his players better than the Vikings or his HS team did. Don't act like players don't get preferential treatment at college. Guys do all across the country, regardless of whether they're DIII, JUCO, DII, FCS, and DI. You get some perks from being BMOC. It may not be right but that's how it goes...in my experience anyway. Also, Matt Hayes is a dick unless you're a SEC lover. He loves hero-worshipping those teams and bashing Ohio State. That's how he gets clicks.

I agree with most of your other stuff. I personally think Harvin is a #1 WR...but not a traditional one.

[clenz]

Wow. Just wow. Keep your anti-Urban Meyer/Ohio State rhetoric to yourself. That article is almost 1.5 years old. And don't say "I didn't bring up Ohio State," I know that's part of your beef with Urban Meyer. You yourself told me last fall that you liked Michigan. So you're obviously biased. That however, isn't my issue with your claims. I will ignore that stuff.
Just because certain events and issues cropped up and you didn't hear about them doesn't mean they were "covered up" or "never addressed." Unless you worked at Florida under Meyer or in their athletic department, you and Matt Hayes have no clue what you're talking about. I'm sure that someone dealt with them...probably a Tim Tebow/Brandon Spikes/Charlie Strong/Dan Mullen/Mickey Marotti-type guy. Maybe Urban did grill him, who knows....I don't claim to and it's foolish for you to as well. It's dumb for Matt Hayes to. He has had a bone to pick with Ohio State for awhile and seeing Urban leave his beloved Florida Gators

Maybe Harvin liked Meyer because Meyer treats his players better than the Vikings or his HS team did. Don't act like players don't get preferential treatment at college. Guys do all across the country, regardless of whether they're DIII, JUCO, DII, FCS, and DI. You get some perks from being BMOC. It may not be right but that's how it goes...in my experience anyway. Also, Matt Hayes is a dick unless you're a SEC lover. He loves hero-worshipping those teams and bashing Ohio State. That's how he gets clicks.

I agree with most of your other stuff. I personally think Harvin is a #1 WR...but not a traditional one.

Litterally none of this has/had/will have anything to do with Ohio State...ever. The fact you had to jump in and defend something I never brought up is fucking laughable...not that I actually expected any better from you. Litterally the only reason you are in this thread is because your new coach was mentioned.


It's well documented that Urban Meyer has long let his star players do whatever the hell they want to keep them happen. The only person who didn't seem to know that is apparently you.


This article is from April 2012
http://www.businessinsider.com/urban-me ... ida-2012-4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Linked in that article is this article from eariler in that April
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footba ... t=hp_t2_a3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


He also said that he hated the way that the SEC school recruited...yet he comes into Ohio State and instantly starts pulling the shit that was apparently the reason he left Florida, and that he spoke out against on ESPN for a year.


I'm sure you'll find a way to twist this and blah blah blah you are a Michigan fan blah blah fucking retard Ohio State...blah blah jealous...blah blah. Save it.

Urban is not, not has he ever, been a clean coach.

[clenz]

Spoiler: show

The dude is always hurt/bitching/complaining/not sure he will play. He never practiced in Minnesota because of one ailment or another. Anytime he was called on his he threw a giant media bitch fit about how he wasn't being treated fairly.

Harvin is a locker room cancer but the Vikings, and us as fans, were willing to put up with it because of his talent. However, at some point the cancer over takes the good.

Say what you want about Ponder not being a great QB yet (maybe ever), but the way Percy treated/talked to/about Ponder did nothing but stunt his growth. Ponder was so fixated on keeping Percy happy (not possible by the way) that he didn't read his options and just focused on Percy.

Along with the keeping him happy....he has a huge issue with authority and has never respected any coach (except Urban Meyer who let him do what ever he wanted with no repercussions. If you doubt that look at all of the issues that are now coming out from everywhere Urban has been. The number of arrests/issues that were covered up and never addressed http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2 ... news-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). He punched an official in high school, he beat up his WR coach at Florida (mentioned in the article above as well as many other if you google it), He had to be restrained from beating Brad Childress up in the locker room, and similar stories about Leslie Frazier.

Another reason the Vikings were happy to see him go? He isn't a #1 WR but thinks he needs #1 money. Do you really think a slot WR is worth 67 million? Had he stayed in Minnesota he would have done nothing except bitch about his contract this year, and not resign when he was a free agent. Why not get something for him, especially a first round pick that was used on a great prospect CB...a position the Vikings really need help at. He doens’t impact the game the way a #1 receiver or a great running back like Adrian Peterson or a great QB like Tom Brady impacts the game. He is a #2 weapon on a good offense. He is unique and talented but he is not top-of-the-line in terms of value. That’s just the truth. He doesn't stretch the field, he isn't a real redzone threat most of the time, and doesn't really get into the end zone all that frequently (averages 5 receiving TD's a year, less than 1 rushing TD per year, and 1 return TD per year...so 6 or 7 TD's per season). Never had more than 87 catches in a season, averages just 11 yards per reception and 60 yards per game.


If Seattle wants to pay that 67 million dollars go for it.


I guess Seattle is going to show the Vikings what their missing with Percy...just like they did with Sydney Rice (who has still only ever had 1 good season and that was in Minnesota with 83 catches and was book ended with seasons of 15 and 13 catches...He had more catches in 2009 with MN than he has in both years in Seattle combined). I shouldn't be suprised your willing to pay Percy 67 million, you're paying Sydney 8.5 million this coming season. Oh, and just like how Tarvaris didn't get a fair shake in Minnesota and was going to be an above average QB in Seattle and prove the Vikings wrong....and he just admitted he isn't playing football to play/get better. The only reason he resigned with Seattle was to collect a pay check.

Tell us how you really feel.

Is he overpaid? Probably. Is he a dynamic player that requires special attention by defenses allowing for other guys on offense to be more productive? Most certainly. The notion that he doesn't stretch the field is silly. He's one of the 3 fastest guys on the field nearly every Sunday. Minnesota didn't use him as a deep threat because there were no other weapons to draw attention other than maybe Rudolph; defenses could just key on Harvin and Peterson. Not to mention his greatest strength is his athleticism in making defenders miss by getting him the ball in space, hence why he's primarily used in the slot and on bubble screens and reverses.

Well...surgery it is for him.....GREAT trade for the Vikings just got even fucking better.


Hip surgery is one of the hardest to fully recover from, especially for a player like Harvin.

Chances he plays this year? Less than 5%?

[rkwittem]

Wow. Just wow. Keep your anti-Urban Meyer/Ohio State rhetoric to yourself. That article is almost 1.5 years old. And don't say "I didn't bring up Ohio State," I know that's part of your beef with Urban Meyer. You yourself told me last fall that you liked Michigan. So you're obviously biased. That however, isn't my issue with your claims. I will ignore that stuff.
Just because certain events and issues cropped up and you didn't hear about them doesn't mean they were "covered up" or "never addressed." Unless you worked at Florida under Meyer or in their athletic department, you and Matt Hayes have no clue what you're talking about. I'm sure that someone dealt with them...probably a Tim Tebow/Brandon Spikes/Charlie Strong/Dan Mullen/Mickey Marotti-type guy. Maybe Urban did grill him, who knows....I don't claim to and it's foolish for you to as well. It's dumb for Matt Hayes to. He has had a bone to pick with Ohio State for awhile and seeing Urban leave his beloved Florida Gators

Maybe Harvin liked Meyer because Meyer treats his players better than the Vikings or his HS team did. Don't act like players don't get preferential treatment at college. Guys do all across the country, regardless of whether they're DIII, JUCO, DII, FCS, and DI. You get some perks from being BMOC. It may not be right but that's how it goes...in my experience anyway. Also, Matt Hayes is a dick unless you're a SEC lover. He loves hero-worshipping those teams and bashing Ohio State. That's how he gets clicks.

I agree with most of your other stuff. I personally think Harvin is a #1 WR...but not a traditional one.

Litterally none of this has/had/will have anything to do with Ohio State...ever. The fact you had to jump in and defend something I never brought up is fucking laughable...not that I actually expected any better from you. Litterally the only reason you are in this thread is because your new coach was mentioned.


It's well documented that Urban Meyer has long let his star players do whatever the hell they want to keep them happen. The only person who didn't seem to know that is apparently you.


This article is from April 2012
http://www.businessinsider.com/urban-me ... ida-2012-4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Linked in that article is this article from eariler in that April
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footba ... t=hp_t2_a3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


He also said that he hated the way that the SEC school recruited...yet he comes into Ohio State and instantly starts pulling the shit that was apparently the reason he left Florida, and that he spoke out against on ESPN for a year.


I'm sure you'll find a way to twist this and blah blah blah you are a Michigan fan blah blah fucking retard Ohio State...blah blah jealous...blah blah. Save it.

Urban is not, not has he ever, been a clean coach.

well, I originally commented on the St. Louis Rams, so I was here before you decided to drag Urban through the mud while bitching about Percy Harvin. I also guarantee you wouldn't say any of that stuff about Urban Meyer if he was at Michigan. In any case, you said it had nothing at all ("literally," in your words) with Ohio State...but you brought up Urban Meyer....who is OHIO STATE'S HEAD COACH. If that's got nothing to do with Ohio State, I don't know what does....
I read the Matt Hayes article when it came out. Every article you've linked here just goes back to the Matt Hayes piece. That's your only source. Matt Hayes loves the Gators. Urban leaves, they suck, he comes back for a Big Ten team, UF/SEC fans and media get jealous/angry, Hayes writes a douchebag article. Happens all the time. Maybe it's all true, but he's only one guy. And a lack of bias isn't one of Hayes' best journalistic qualities.

He also said that he hated the way that the SEC school recruited...yet he comes into Ohio State and instantly starts pulling the shit that was apparently the reason he left Florida, and that he spoke out against on ESPN for a year.

This quote was so especially dumb that I had to reply specifically to it.
Bret Bielema blew the whistle on it said "We at the Big Ten don’t want to be like the SEC—in any way, shape or form.” in reference to Meyer's so-called "illegal" recruiting. (SEC-style in your eye, I'm sure)
Then a year later, Bielema bolts for the SEC. What a great source that is. Mark Dantonio at MSU was pissed because Jim Tressel would nudge kids from Ohio that couldn't make it to OSU b/c of scholarships or grades to MSU and he got a ton of wins on those kids' backs. Kids like Le'Veon Bell, William Gholston, et al. Maybe Urban really was ill. The SEC recruits like 14 different Urban Meyers...I doubt that was the issue, considering he was kicking all of their butts in recruiting. I'm guessing the issues Urban had were overzealous media and 24-7-365 media coverage. That'd be my guess. I, unlike you, am not going to pretend to know. That's my guess. That's all I have need to say on Urban Meyer.

Getting back on subject...Harvin will be back by Thanksgiving. Suggs was back way too fast. Ray Lewis came back really fast. He'll have some magical recovery and be back soon enough. That's my prediction. If the NFC West comes down to injuries, the Rams are in a nice spot. Their corners match up very, very well with the abysmal receivers left in Seattle or San Fran right now. Boldin and Tate aren't even #1 WRs on any other team in the NFL, period. Yet they'll have to be for SF and Seattle. If Bradford can take the next step....the possibilities are there for the Rams.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

The receivers left in Seattle are abysmal? Weren't you just douching about hyperbole?

We still have the same WRs that played last year, who helped the offense finish #9 in scoring despite starting the season averaging just 17 points a game. Rice is our #1 WR, and Tate is a solid #2 still with potential to get better. He's Percy without the top end speed and elite athleticism.

[Gil Dobie]

Anyone else not shocked that Harvin is hurt?

No?

Get used to it Seattle...he's you headache (pun intended) now

quando omni flunkus moritati

I am. Before last year's ankle injury, he had only missed 3 out of 48 games. That doesn't scream injury prone. It remains to be seen if he'll miss any games this year... he was running full speed just days ago. Now James Carpenter and Walter Thurmond... they are injury prone.

Heard the injuray may have come from the Seattle game last season. Harvin could be out of football a calender year by the time he plays again.

[uofmman1122]

Not only is Harbaugh a much better coach than Carroll, the San Francisco office blows Seattle's out of the water.

This is why we didn't go after Harvin.