Who was better: 96' Marshall or 13' NDSU?

[BDKJMU]

Both teams finished 15-0, the only 2 I know of to have done so.

1996 Marshall team kicked the crap out of most teams they played. Not a single win by less than 2 TDs, and only 3 by less than 24 points. Granted they didn't play a I-A, and played a Div II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Marsh ... tball_team" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They were loaded with at least 9 future NFL players, 5 of them draft picks (2 1st round, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 5th). Here's who they had on their 96' team:

-Randy Moss, then a rFr in 96' after signing with Notre Dame, getting denied admission, then getting booted from FSU. From wiki: "..set the NCAA Division I-AA records for most games with a touchdown catch in a season (14), most consecutive games with a touchdown catch (13), most touchdown passes caught in a season (28 – tying Jerry Rice's 1984 record), and most receiving yards gained by a freshman in a season (1709 on 78 catches), a record which still stands. Moss was also the leading kickoff returner in Division I-AA on the season, with 612 total yards and a 34.0 yard average."
1st round draft pick in 98'. 15 seasons in the NFL, slew of All Pro, Pro Bowl & other awards.

-Chad Pennington: in 95' as a true Fr had led Marshall to the NC game which lost to Montana. In 96' he redshirted as he was the backup to Eric Kresser, a FL transfer. Pennington in 97' was back as starting QB, led Marhsall to a 13-0 season in their 1st yr in the MAC, and was 5th in the Heisman voting. A 1st round draft pick in 2000, 11 seasons in the NFL, 2nd to Manning in 08' AP NFL MVP voting.

-John Wade, a Jr Center in 96' who was a 5th round in 98', spent 11 seasons in the NFL. From Harrisonburg, VA, btw.

-Rogers Beckett, a Fr DB in 96' who was a 2nd Rd draft pick in 2000

-Doug Chapman, as a Fr RB in 96' rushed for over 1200 yds. A 3rd round draft pick in 2000.

-Chris Hanson, a Soph punter in 96' who spent 11 seasons in the NFL.

-Billy Lyon, a Jr DL in 96' who spent 6 seasons in the NFL.

-Andre O'Neal, a Fr LB in 96' who spent 2 seasons in the NFL.

-Chris Parker, a Sr RB who spent a season in the NFL.

[Mvemjsunpx]

I think '96 Marshall was better, but they were I-AA in name only.

[93henfan]

I think '96 Marshall was better, but they were I-AA in name only.

This.

[Aho Old Guy]

Marshall ain't shiite

They had one heck of a run, though. All those Donnan teams didn't mess around, and played great ball. Between The Vermin, The Convicts and the Hundering Terds, SoCon league games were the real deal, and the play-offs were just practice.

I think '96 Marshall was better, but they were I-AA in name only.

This.

Butt-hurt playoff roadkill ??



The 1995 team that lost to Montana (Pennington's Freshman year) was just as good as the '96 team, too. They had a few down years, but before they left for the MAC, they were THE I-AA elite of the late '80s and '90s.

As far as NDSU is concerned, we'll see. Get back to me in 2020!

[JohnStOnge]

It's always relative to the times. But relative to the times it was definitely the 96 Marshall team. One thing you have to do is look at who they played in the championship game and how easily they handled them.

Going in to the 1996 championship game Montana was 14 - 0 and had outscored its opponents by an average of 44 - 14. The Griz's closest call was a 24-10 win over Portland State. They beat Oregon State 35-14. In their three playoff games they'd beaten Nicholls State by 48-3, East Tennessee State by 44-14, and Troy by 70 - 7. If there had been no Marshall team out there we could very well be talking about whether or not this year's NDSU team was greater than the 1996 Montana team. That's how good that Montana team was.

And Marshall handled them easily. I couldn't stand Marshall but it is what it is. That was the best I-AA/FCS team relative to the time it played in ever. And it's possible that the debate should be over whether the 1996 Montana team was the second best ever but just happened to have the misfortune of coming along at the same time that great Marshall team did.

What North Dakota State did was great. But I don't think they played any great teams in the playoffs. As things worked out they didn't play any seeded teams to get there and when they got there they were playing the 6 seed. And no matter who they'd played there just wasn't a situation like there was in 1996 where there was another really great team out there that they'd have to beat.

[AZGrizFan]

I agree with John's assessment....thus, we'll never really know.

[JohnStOnge]

The 1995 team that lost to Montana (Pennington's Freshman year) was just as good as the '96 team, too. They had a few down years, but before they left for the MAC, they were THE I-AA elite of the late '80s and '90s.

1995 team wasn't as good as the 1996 team because Randy Moss totally changed any game he played in. Basically they had almost all their starters back from 1995 then added Randy Moss and a SEC caliber quarterback. Pennington was very good and obviously was an NFL player but as a freshman in 1995 I don't think he was as good as the Florida transfer Marshall had in 1996.

Marshall was not THE I-AA elite during any period. In the 1980s it was clearly Georgia Southern with national titles in 85, 86, and 89. Marshall had zero national titles during the 1980s. In the 1990s Marshall won two national titles while Youngstown State won four (three while Marshall was still in I-AA). Plus Youngstown State was 2 - 1 in national title games against Marshall and the one Marshall win was by 3 on a last second field goal while Youngstown State pretty much controlled the other two games in winning by 8 and 12 (That's the way YSU was. They were conservative on offense and smothering on defense so you might look up and see that you only lost by 8 but you never really had a chance).

Anyway, just a little pet peeve of mine. Back when Marshall was in I-AA I used to hear that they were THE top I-AA program and they clearly never were. Up there, yes. But never THE top program in terms of winning national championships. It was Georgia Southern in the 1980s and it was Youngstown State in the 1990s.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I watched both teams and IMO its not even close.

NDSU would have shut that Marshall team down PERIOD. Moss or No Mas.


NDSU would have won by 17+

[JohnStOnge]

I watched both teams and IMO its not even close.

NDSU would have shut that Marshall team down PERIOD. Moss or No Mas.


NDSU would have won by 17+

All I can say is that you have got to be kidding me.

To me the idea that what we're talking about is a team from 18 years ago vs. one from now plays a role. Players are always getting bigger and faster as everything from childhood nutrition to training techniques advance. That's why I think one always has to put the "relative to its time" qualifier in there to be fair. But shut that Marshall team down? No way. Neither North Dakota State nor anybody else in college football at any level right now has anybody that could cover Randy Moss in his prime. That guy was inhuman. As long as he was in there any team that played would have to completely distort its defense in order to have any hope of keeping him from beating them single-handedly.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW, through its first 14 games the 1996 Montana team was about as dominant as the 2013 NDSU team was through its first 14 games. The 1996 Montana won those 14 games by an average of 29 points while the 2013 NDSU team won its first 14 games by an average of 27. 1996 Montana played a bad PAC 10 team while 2013 NDSU played a middle of the pack Big 12 team. But the 1996 Montana team dominated that bad Pac 10 team to win by 35-14. The 1996 Montana team won its first three playoff games by an average of 46 while the 2013 NDSU team won its first three playoff games by an average of 34.

The big difference is that there wasn't anything remotely like the 1996 Marshall team waiting for the 2013 NDSU team when the Bison got to the championship game.

[Gil Dobie]

It's great to be compared to the all-time greats.

I notice Marshall won 11 home games in 1996, NDSU won 9 this year. Would be great to see NDSU defense try and stop the Marshall offense. It's not if anyone can cover Moss, it's more can the defense pressure the QB to stop or hurry the throw, possibly cause a turnover. Another question is, would NDSU wear down the Marshall Defense? I see Montana gave up over 30 points 3 times that regular season. Montana was a great team, great record, but defense may be the reason they could not slow Marshall.

[Pwns]

One advantage you have to give the Marshall team IMO is that no team that NDSU played was anywhere close to that 1996 Montana team that Marshall run off the field. I mean, Montana had a 35-14 win over Oregon State, and they blew out their first three playoff opponents even worse than NDSU did. That was a heck of an FCS team that would win the championship on many seasons.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

One advantage you have to give the Marshall team IMO is that no team that NDSU played was anywhere close to that 1996 Montana team that Marshall run off the field. I mean, Montana had a 35-14 win over Oregon State, and they blew out their first three playoff opponents even worse than NDSU did. That was a heck of an FCS team that would win the championship on many seasons.

Like beating Oregon St is ever a big deal......they suck.

Marshall never played a defense like NDSU. It wouldn't be close and so what if they had Moss. The QB still has to get the ball delivered and I don't think he would have had time.

[SeattleGriz]

I think '96 Marshall was better, but they were I-AA in name only.

This.

Like NDSU wasn't. They have boatload of Minnesota kids they won't get now the UM is winning.

They were a FBS top 35 in disguise team.

[JohnStOnge]

Well, one thing that's not debatable is that the 1996 Marshall team was more dominant. No game they played was ever really in doubt. We'll cut slack for North Dakota State on the Kansas State game because Kansas State was a fairly solid BCS league team but there's also the fact that, really, Northern Iowa pretty much had to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in order to have North Dakota State go undefeated this year. They had North Dakota State's game winning TD drive stopped but a defensive lineman got called for hands to the face. The outcome of that game was very MUCH in doubt for North Dakota State.

Another thing is that you guys act like the only defense involved in this discussion is 2013 North Dakota State's. And North Dakota State's defense was very good this year in giving up only 11.3 points per game. But Marshall's 1996 defense only gave up 13.9 points per game. Relative to their time they were far more explosive on offense and comparable on defense.

The 1996 Marshall team was just more head and shoulders above the rest of I-AA/FCS than the 2013 NDSU team was. And that's in spite of the fact that there was another really great I-AA team out there in 1996 (Montana) while there wasn't a team like that in 2013.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This.

Like NDSU wasn't. They have boatload of Minnesota kids they won't get now the UM is winning.

They were a FBS top 35 in disguise team.

Hate to break it to you but the Bison are still getting kids that the U is passing on.

[BDKJMU]

I watched both teams and IMO its not even close.

NDSU would have shut that Marshall team down PERIOD. Moss or No Mas.


NDSU would have won by 17+

All I can say is that you have got to be kidding me.

To me the idea that what we're talking about is a team from 18 years ago vs. one from now plays a role. Players are always getting bigger and faster as everything from childhood nutrition to training techniques advance. That's why I think one always has to put the "relative to its time" qualifier in there to be fair. But shut that Marshall team down? No way. Neither North Dakota State nor anybody else in college football at any level right now has anybody that could cover Randy Moss in his prime. That guy was inhuman. As long as he was in there any team that played would have to completely distort its defense in order to have any hope of keeping him from beating them single-handedly.

Yeah. He's got to be smoking something. That Marshall team was absolutely LOADED for a I-AA team. 9 future NFL players, 5 future draft picks, including 2 1st rounders, one of them a likely HOF and a man among boys., a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder.

Who does NDSU have on their team likely to be drafted?
#77 might be the top OL in I-AA.
#1 may be the best corner. Think he's a 3 time All American.
I'm sure they have a couple of others, but none that are 1st rounders....

[Mvemjsunpx]

All I can say is that you have got to be kidding me.

To me the idea that what we're talking about is a team from 18 years ago vs. one from now plays a role. Players are always getting bigger and faster as everything from childhood nutrition to training techniques advance. That's why I think one always has to put the "relative to its time" qualifier in there to be fair. But shut that Marshall team down? No way. Neither North Dakota State nor anybody else in college football at any level right now has anybody that could cover Randy Moss in his prime. That guy was inhuman. As long as he was in there any team that played would have to completely distort its defense in order to have any hope of keeping him from beating them single-handedly.

Yeah. He's got to be smoking something. That Marshall team was absolutely LOADED for a I-AA team. 9 future NFL players, 5 future draft picks, including 2 1st rounders, one of them a likely HOF and a man among boys., a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder.

Who does NDSU have on their team likely to be drafted?
#77 might be the top OL in I-AA.
#1 may be the best corner. Think he's a 3 time All American.
I'm sure they have a couple of others, but none that are 1st rounders....

Alpha's been fellating the NDSU bandwagon the whole season just to troll eGriz, so you should probably just ignore him.

As JSO said: NDSU's defense is good, but even they wouldn't have had an answer for Randy Moss.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Who is better?

Moss was a great player for sure.

This Bison team is very special. 3-peat has been done only once before.

[putter]

Going with Marshall. Moss, Pennington (back up), Kresser, Olandis Gary etc. There is no one on NDSU's team that could run with Moss, period. NDSU is an amazing team but I don't think they get it done against that Marshall team.

[BDKJMU]

Going with Marshall. Moss, Pennington (back up), Kresser Olandis Gary etc. There is no one on NDSU's team that could run with Moss, period. NDSU is an amazing team but I don't think they get it done against that Marshall team.

Saw that Orlandis was listed as having transferred to marshall from UGA and drafted 4th rd in 99', but he's not listed anywhere in Marshall's records (top 21 career rushers, top 22 single season, never had a 100 yd game)...

[Gil Dobie]

Yeah. He's got to be smoking something. That Marshall team was absolutely LOADED for a I-AA team. 9 future NFL players, 5 future draft picks, including 2 1st rounders, one of them a likely HOF and a man among boys., a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder.

Who does NDSU have on their team likely to be drafted?
#77 might be the top OL in I-AA.
#1 may be the best corner. Think he's a 3 time All American.
I'm sure they have a couple of others, but none that are 1st rounders....

I would rather see the game than speculate. One interesting fact, NDSU has 0 FBS transfers, how many did Marshall have other than Moss? I like the fact that NDSU can find all these athletes that get passed over by Minnesota and Wisconsin, and a lesser extent Nebraska. I heard Wisconsin only went after linemen if they were 6'5" or over. Last year the Bison recruited a couple all-state WI kids that were just under 6'5" that played at smaller high schools.

[93henfan]

Yeah. He's got to be smoking something. That Marshall team was absolutely LOADED for a I-AA team. 9 future NFL players, 5 future draft picks, including 2 1st rounders, one of them a likely HOF and a man among boys., a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder.

Who does NDSU have on their team likely to be drafted?
#77 might be the top OL in I-AA.
#1 may be the best corner. Think he's a 3 time All American.
I'm sure they have a couple of others, but none that are 1st rounders....

I would rather see the game than speculate. One interesting fact, NDSU has 0 FBS transfers, how many did Marshall have other than Moss? I like the fact that NDSU can find all these athletes that get passed over by Minnesota and Wisconsin, and a lesser extent Nebraska. I heard Wisconsin only went after linemen if they were 6'5" or over. Last year the Bison recruited a couple all-state WI kids that were just under 6'5" that played at smaller high schools.

Marshall had tons of transfers. That's why I've always laughed at anyone criticizing a school about transfers.

I remember watching the TV broadcast of UD at Marshall in the 92 Semis and the majority of the Marshall players introduced were transfers. Marshall did not give two sh!ts what anyone thought about taking transfers.

[mrklean]

The 1989 Georgia Southern University Team is THE BEST FCS Team of all time. PERIOD 15-0

[93henfan]

The 1989 Georgia Southern University Team is THE BEST FCS Team of all time. PERIOD 15-0

Yes, because nobody has gone 15-0 recently.