Philosophy of D-II Scheduling

[SuperHornet]

Possibly.

NAIA (at least the upper tier teams) are usually seen as roughly equivalent to D-II in football. NAIA D-I in hoops is probably equivalent to NCAA D-II, while NAIA D-II is probably about the same as NCAA D-III.

The average fan isn't going to see that, though. Most people who aren't knowledgeable enough to post here will see NAIA as BELOW all NCAA Divisions. Those that post here, though, will likely observe that the Carrolls of the world are at least NCAA D-II in character, and possibly even FCS caliber. They have their reasons for remaining in NAIA, though....

Yeah, it's known as NCAA standards for one, funding would be a good strong second.

That's true. There are SOME, though, that try to straddle the line, maintaining membership in both. I think SOU might be one of those. Seems to me that there's something a little sneaky about doing that. It almost guarantees a playoff spot one way or the other unless you're just complete crap, right?

[Wedgebuster]

In a nutter, the attraction is getting an early home game against what would be expected to be an undermanned squad, 36 scholarships at best vs 63 at the FCS level, which hopefully translates into a warm up and a win. What gets missed some times is a very good D-2 program will put a pretty salty starting lineup on the field, so you can't make stupid mistakes.

I was at the MSU/Chadron State game and the Bobcats not only greatly under estimated Chadron's miniature running back, they committed a penalty on almost every single special teams play in the first three quarters.

I was also at the UNC/Chadron State game a year later, and that was a case of a very well disciplined D-2 versus a terribly bad disciplined joke of a FCS squad, it was 31-0 and the previous year's Chadron team was better IMO.

You take a chance of not looking too good playing down, but that's the trade off for a cheap home early season game..

[JohnStOnge]

My understanding is that D2s also are able to take players that D-Is can't take. Not sure about that but I've gotten that impression.

In any case there is a history that says that top D2 teams are generally not "cupcakes" from the standpoint of FCS teams scheduling them. All you have to know is that, historically, D2 teams that have made the playoffs have a winning record against I-AA/FCS squads. I haven't run the numbers recently and it's a lot of work to do but I've done it enough in the past to be confident that it's the case. Such games don't happen as frequently as games between FCS playoff teams and FBS teams do. A lot of the D2 powers play a lot of conference games. Sometimes that's ALL they play. Like last year Northwest Missouri State played 11 conference games. That was its entire regular season schedule.

Took a quick look at last year and if I didn't miss anything there were only two games with D2 playoff teams going 1 - 1 against FCS. One was Colorado State Pueblo's impressive win over Sam Houston State and the other was Tuskegee's not so impressive loss to 4-8 SWAC team Alabama A&M. But that's another thing. Certain D2 conferences area lot tougher than others. If you schedule a top team from the Gulf South, for instance, that's a lot different than scheduling a top team from Tuskegee's conference (Southern-Intercollegiate).

[Wedgebuster]

My understanding is that D2s also are able to take players that D-Is can't take. Not sure about that but I've gotten that impression.

In any case there is a history that says that top D2 teams are generally not "cupcakes" from the standpoint of FCS teams scheduling them. All you have to know is that, historically, D2 teams that have made the playoffs have a winning record against I-AA/FCS squads. I haven't run the numbers recently and it's a lot of work to do but I've done it enough in the past to be confident that it's the case. Such games don't happen as frequently as games between FCS playoff teams and FBS teams do. A lot of the D2 powers play a lot of conference games. Sometimes that's ALL they play. Like last year Northwest Missouri State played 11 conference games. That was its entire regular season schedule.

Took a quick look at last year and if I didn't miss anything there were only two games with D2 playoff teams going 1 - 1 against FCS. One was Colorado State Pueblo's impressive win over Sam Houston State and the other was Tuskegee's not so impressive loss to 4-8 SWAC team Alabama A&M. But that's another thing. Certain D2 conferences area lot tougher than others. If you schedule a top team from the Gulf South, for instance, that's a lot different than scheduling a top team from Tuskegee's conference (Southern-Intercollegiate).

D-2 athletes still have to pass the NCAA Clearinghouse Requirements, however they can do so at a slightly less stringent level, mainly one less in core completion requirements, so say one less year in math, or foreign language. They still have GPA and ACT or SAT standards to be eligible. You see some damn good players land there just because of that, and then there are the great athletes that are an inch or two shorter, or a tenth slower in the 40 that fill the rosters, they are the ones you have to watch out for when they play up.

[JohnStOnge]

Just posting because I looked at something on top D-II teams and FCS opponents and it didn't come out like I expected it to. Didn't come out consistent with my expectation that the top D-IIs would win the majority of the time. This time I just used top 25 D-II teams for the years 2011 - 2014 as indicated by the American Football Coaches Association polls available at http://www.afca.com/article/article.php ... _coachpoll" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

The result is that top 25 D-II teams were 6 - 9 against FCS opponents during those four seasons (40%). Moreover, Colorado State Pueblo's blowout of Sam Houston State last year was the only win over what I'd call a better than average FCS team. The other five wins were two over Davidson teams that were 2-8 and 0-9 against other FCS opponents, one over a Northern Colorado team that went 0-9 against FCS, one over a Nicholls State team that went 0-8 against FCS, and one over an Alabama A&M team that went 5-5 against FCS.

The D-II top 25 teams did better during the later two years than during the earlier two years. Top 25 D-II teams were 5-2 vs. FCS opponents during 2013 and 2014 after going 1-7 against such opponents during 2011 and 2012.

I think that even though 1 of 3 games involving top 25 Gulf South teams was a blowout and all three were D-II losses the results involving that league are consistent with my belief that you've got a good chance of getting a competitive game if you schedule a top Gulf South opponent. The three games were a 23-24 Delta State loss to a Northwestern State team that went 5-5 against FCS, a 6-34 West Alabama loss to a Samford team that went 6-3 against FCS, and a 21-24 two-overtimes North Alabama loss to a Jacksonville State team that went 9-4 against FCS teams and reached the FCS quarterfinals by beating Samford in the first round then McNeese State in the second. North Alabama gave them a much tougher game than either of those two did. Outgained Jacksonville State 427 to 311 in total yards but somehow managed to lose.

In my opinion the Gulf South tends to have very athletic teams. Lots of fast guys. I do think it's probably the strongest D-II league.

[kperk014]

I was thinking more along the lines of not scheduling a passing leader in D2 (SOU) while knowing your secondary is total dog ****…you know, use some common sense.

I don’t follow D2 so I wouldn’t know the difference, which plays into the point of why bother risking a loss by playing a top notch D2 opponent. None of those D2 opponents will draw any interest at the gate so the point is moot on bringing in a "name" D2 opponent.

Games with North Alabama drew crowds of 21,682 at Central Florida just before they began their D1 journey, 20,834 at Jacksonville State, 19,497 at Alabama A&M, 17,411 (would have been much more if stadium had been expanded at the time) at Youngstown State, 22,136 at Portland State in their last year in D2 and 24,837 against Abilene Christian near the end of their D2 run. We only drew 13,683 to our win over FBS Louisiana-Lafayette. I guess they knew what was coming.

[89Hen]

Just posting because I looked at something on top D-II teams and FCS opponents and it didn't come out like I expected it to. Didn't come out consistent with my expectation that the top D-IIs would win the majority of the time. This time I just used top 25 D-II teams for the years 2011 - 2014 as indicated by the American Football Coaches Association polls available at http://www.afca.com/article/article.php ... _coachpoll" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

The result is that top 25 D-II teams were 6 - 9 against FCS opponents during those four seasons (40%). Moreover, Colorado State Pueblo's blowout of Sam Houston State last year was the only win over what I'd call a better than average FCS team. The other five wins were two over Davidson teams that were 2-8 and 0-9 against other FCS opponents, one over a Northern Colorado team that went 0-9 against FCS, one over a Nicholls State team that went 0-8 against FCS, and one over an Alabama A&M team that went 5-5 against FCS.

The D-II top 25 teams did better during the later two years than during the earlier two years. Top 25 D-II teams were 5-2 vs. FCS opponents during 2013 and 2014 after going 1-7 against such opponents during 2011 and 2012.

I think that even though 1 of 3 games involving top 25 Gulf South teams was a blowout and all three were D-II losses the results involving that league are consistent with my belief that you've got a good chance of getting a competitive game if you schedule a top Gulf South opponent. The three games were a 23-24 Delta State loss to a Northwestern State team that went 5-5 against FCS, a 6-34 West Alabama loss to a Samford team that went 6-3 against FCS, and a 21-24 two-overtimes North Alabama loss to a Jacksonville State team that went 9-4 against FCS teams and reached the FCS quarterfinals by beating Samford in the first round then McNeese State in the second. North Alabama gave them a much tougher game than either of those two did. Outgained Jacksonville State 427 to 311 in total yards but somehow managed to lose.

In my opinion the Gulf South tends to have very athletic teams. Lots of fast guys. I do think it's probably the strongest D-II league.

You could have just said "89 was right" and saved the bandwidth.

[JohnStOnge]

You could have just said "89 was right" and saved the bandwidth.

No because if I know from having done it in the past that if I were to go back farther I'd get D-II playoff teams winning the majority of their games against I-AA/FCS opponents. It's just they had a really bad time of it during during 2010 - 2014 (I did a math goof up earlier by saying referring to do years). If I were to go back and say "all time" there's very little doubt I'd come out with results consistent with what I've been saying.

Most if not all years if you schedule North Alabama, as one example, you're going to get an opponent that's stronger than the majority of FCS teams. Northwest Missouri State's another one that is consistently tougher than the average FCS but you're never going to schedule them because all of their regular season games are conference games. As I wrote earlier there's a pretty good bit of that in D-II.

[Wedgebuster]

Again, it is the 63 scholarships at FCS vs the maximum of 36 in the bigger D-2 conferences. The RMAC, long considered a lower level D-2 conference limits full scholarships to 24, and they actually divide them up among the team with some getting tuition and fees, some getting housing and meals, etc. That is not allowed in D-1

Chadron State was running on 23 scholarships when they dumped Montana State, and shut out Northern Colorado the next year. The ONLY football player in Chadron State history to have a full scholarship was on those teams.

Not even Don Beebe, who their stadium is named for had a full ride.

That is a huge advantage, but not ever a slam dunk...