NBA Finals

[Gil Dobie]

Irving for sure but I don't know about Love. I think he showed this season exactly what he is, a great player on bad teams. You put players like that on good teams and they don't know what to do (not being the focus of the team). Olynik did the Cavs a favor by forcing Love out of the postseason.

Love injured and Irving healthy would have made a big difference, whereas Irving injured and Love healthy would have got them the same results, if not worse. James needed Irving, he would have got along fine without Love.

Timberwolves were 40-42 in Love's last season and he averaged 26 pts and 12 boards. They split the season series with Portland, 2-2. I wouldn't exactly call a 40-42 team in the West bad, compared to what has been making the playoffs in the East. This year the Wolves had the worst record in the league without Love.

[Gil Dobie]

So a top 10 all time player still that would still completely change the game plan of other teams.

There's a reason there are very few true centers left anymore. The game has "evolved" them out.

Notice MJ didn't start winning until Pippen got into the league and got a couple seasons of NBA ball under his belt. Pippen is in the top 50 players all time on many lists. The year MJ sat the Bulls still went to game 7 of the conference semis. His early teams had some pretty nice players as well - Cartright, Grant, Armstrong, etc... His last 3 he had a pretty nice cast as well - Kerr, Harper, Kukoc, Longley, Rodman

Top to bottom this Cavs team isn't even close to having anyone like that on it's roster. Mosgov might be better than Cartright...maybe. No one else really comes close.

I understand how the game has evolved. I don't know if Malone or Lebron are in my top 10 of all-time, Barkley for sure is not. I have seen some great scoring, great stats and some great wins by Lebron and Malone, but they never really gave me the anticipation of something great was about to happen. That anticipation was there with Magic, Bird, Erving, Maravich, Kobe, Wade Today's players that have that thing I would pay money to watch play, are Durant, Curry and Westbrook. Wade and Kobe of course are past their prime.

Malone and Lebron are both top 20 though. Maybe they are just too plain-jane, everyday supermen.

[bluehenbillk]

So a top 10 all time player still that would still completely change the game plan of other teams.

There's a reason there are very few true centers left anymore. The game has "evolved" them out.

Notice MJ didn't start winning until Pippen got into the league and got a couple seasons of NBA ball under his belt. Pippen is in the top 50 players all time on many lists. The year MJ sat the Bulls still went to game 7 of the conference semis. His early teams had some pretty nice players as well - Cartright, Grant, Armstrong, etc... His last 3 he had a pretty nice cast as well - Kerr, Harper, Kukoc, Longley, Rodman

Top to bottom this Cavs team isn't even close to having anyone like that on it's roster. Mosgov might be better than Cartright...maybe. No one else really comes close.

I understand how the game has evolved. I don't know if Malone or Lebron are in my top 10 of all-time, Barkley for sure is not. I have seen some great scoring, great stats and some great wins by Lebron and Malone, but they never really gave me the anticipation of something great was about to happen. That anticipation was there with Magic, Bird, Erving, Maravich, Kobe, Wade Today's players that have that thing I would pay money to watch play, are Durant, Curry and Westbrook. Wade and Kobe of course are past their prime.

Malone and Lebron are both top 20 though. Maybe they are just too plain-jane, everyday supermen.

Cmon man. Look I'm not the biggest LeBron guy in the world but to say he's not top 10 of all-time? Really? You need to watch more basketball or just stick to things you know more about....

[SDHornet]

Nobody is arguing that point. He'd have carried the team even if Love and Irving had been healthy. But Love and Irving versus Shumpert and Dellavedova is a gigantic lift and would have made the difference, I believe.

Irving for sure but I don't know about Love. I think he showed this season exactly what he is, a great player on bad teams. You put players like that on good teams and they don't know what to do (not being the focus of the team). Olynik did the Cavs a favor by forcing Love out of the postseason.

Love injured and Irving healthy would have made a big difference, whereas Irving injured and Love healthy would have got them the same results, if not worse. James needed Irving, he would have got along fine without Love.

Love would have shot the ball from the perimeter a hell of a lot better than what those garbage players did. That alone would have opened things up for BronBron or even Mosgov in the paint. I’m not buying that the Cavs were better without him.

[SDHornet]

I understand how the game has evolved. I don't know if Malone or Lebron are in my top 10 of all-time, Barkley for sure is not. I have seen some great scoring, great stats and some great wins by Lebron and Malone, but they never really gave me the anticipation of something great was about to happen. That anticipation was there with Magic, Bird, Erving, Maravich, Kobe, Wade Today's players that have that thing I would pay money to watch play, are Durant, Curry and Westbrook. Wade and Kobe of course are past their prime.

Malone and Lebron are both top 20 though. Maybe they are just too plain-jane, everyday supermen.

Cmon man. Look I'm not the biggest LeBron guy in the world but to say he's not top 10 of all-time? Really? You need to watch more basketball or just stick to things you know more about....

This. LeBron is easily a top 10 all time player. Not sure how anyone can say otherwise and yes, he is easily worth the cost of admission.

[AZGrizFan]

Cmon man. Look I'm not the biggest LeBron guy in the world but to say he's not top 10 of all-time? Really? You need to watch more basketball or just stick to things you know more about....

This. LeBron is easily a top 10 all time player. Not sure how anyone can say otherwise and yes, he is easily worth the cost of admission.

Top 10 of his generation? Sure. Of the past 25 years? Fine. Top 10 in my lifetime? Nope. Different game now than 30, 40, 50 years ago. Just off the top of my head:

Russell
Chamberlain
West
Bird
Magic
Jordan
Robertson
Kareem
Baylor
Dr. J
Elvin Hayes
Ewing
Olajawon
Havlicek
Moses Malone

The reason he's taken 3 different teams to the finals virtually by himself is because he's played his entire career in the Eastern Conference--you can do that in the East. That's also the reason he's 2-4 in finals appearances.

[SDHornet]

This. LeBron is easily a top 10 all time player. Not sure how anyone can say otherwise and yes, he is easily worth the cost of admission.

Top 10 of his generation? Sure. Of the past 25 years? Fine. Top 10 in my lifetime? Nope. Different game now than 30, 40, 50 years ago. Just off the top of my head:

Russell
Chamberlain
West
Bird
Magic
Jordan
Robertson
Kareem
Baylor
Dr. J
Elvin Hayes
Ewing
Olajawon
Havlicek
Moses Malone

The reason he's taken 3 different teams to the finals virtually by himself is because he's played his entire career in the Eastern Conference--you can do that in the East. That's also the reason he's 2-4 in finals appearances.

Meh...so why aren't other star players in the East able to do the same thing? And how is it his problem if most of the other teams in the East suck?

[clenz]

This. LeBron is easily a top 10 all time player. Not sure how anyone can say otherwise and yes, he is easily worth the cost of admission.

Top 10 of his generation? Sure. Of the past 25 years? Fine. Top 10 in my lifetime? Nope. Different game now than 30, 40, 50 years ago. Just off the top of my head:

Russell
Chamberlain
West
Bird
Magic
Jordan
Robertson
Kareem
Baylor
Dr. J
Elvin Hayes
Ewing
Olajawon
Havlicek
Moses Malone

The reason he's taken 3 different teams to the finals virtually by himself is because he's played his entire career in the Eastern Conference--you can do that in the East. That's also the reason he's 2-4 in finals appearances.

The crazy thing about the guys from the 60s and 70s is that they were massive for their time, but wouldn't be now.

Go back to the 60s and the average NBA player was 6'4/6'5 between 190-210 lbs. The average NBA player now is 6'7/6/8 220lbs

Russell was 6'9 210-220 during his playing days. That was GREAT size in the 60s. That's the average now. For a guy that played in the post that would make a huge difference.

[Gil Dobie]

Top 10 of his generation? Sure. Of the past 25 years? Fine. Top 10 in my lifetime? Nope. Different game now than 30, 40, 50 years ago. Just off the top of my head:

Russell
Chamberlain
West
Bird
Magic
Jordan
Robertson
Kareem
Baylor
Dr. J
Elvin Hayes
Ewing
Olajawon
Havlicek
Moses Malone

The reason he's taken 3 different teams to the finals virtually by himself is because he's played his entire career in the Eastern Conference--you can do that in the East. That's also the reason he's 2-4 in finals appearances.

The crazy thing about the guys from the 60s and 70s is that they were massive for their time, but wouldn't be now.

Go back to the 60s and the average NBA player was 6'4/6'5 between 190-210 lbs. The average NBA player now is 6'7/6/8 220lbs

Russell was 6'9 210-220 during his playing days. That was GREAT size in the 60s. That's the average now. For a guy that played in the post that would make a huge difference.

I would say that for Mikan and the 1950's, but there were plenty of bigs during the 1960's. Russell's backup was Mel Counts 7', 230 lbs, Wilt was 7' 270 lbs, Knicks had 6-11 Walt Bellamy and 6'9 Willis Reed, Warriors had 6'11 Nate Thurmond.

Kareem was the best of them all. His Freshman team at UCLA beat the #1 ranked varsity team, as Freshmen were ineligible back then, when he was called Lew Alcindor. College basketball outlawed the dunk with the Alcindor rule. John Wooden once said Alcindor could Lew could have scored 50 points a game, but he also said UCLA would not have won all those games. Kareem had the unstoppable shot, the skyhook. Kareem also learned martial arts from Bruce Lee, so he wasn't a wimp. Kareem of the 1980's, that most remember, was on the downside of his career.

1970's was a big man era with Kareem, Moses Malone, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, Bill Walton, Robert Parrish as far as the big names.

[Gil Dobie]

Cmon man. Look I'm not the biggest LeBron guy in the world but to say he's not top 10 of all-time? Really? You need to watch more basketball or just stick to things you know more about....

Been an NBA fan since watching Bill Russell win at the end of his career. Former season ticket holder. I've seen most of these players live at a game. My opinion is just as valid as yours, just coming from a different perspective.

[Gil Dobie]

This. LeBron is easily a top 10 all time player. Not sure how anyone can say otherwise and yes, he is easily worth the cost of admission.

Maybe I should start watching ESPN My opinion is from what I see, just like anyone else.

[GannonFan]

The crazy thing about the guys from the 60s and 70s is that they were massive for their time, but wouldn't be now.

Go back to the 60s and the average NBA player was 6'4/6'5 between 190-210 lbs. The average NBA player now is 6'7/6/8 220lbs

Russell was 6'9 210-220 during his playing days. That was GREAT size in the 60s. That's the average now. For a guy that played in the post that would make a huge difference.

I would say that for Mikan and the 1950's, but there were plenty of bigs during the 1960's. Russell's backup was Mel Counts 7', 230 lbs, Wilt was 7' 270 lbs, Knicks had 6-11 Walt Bellamy and 6'9 Willis Reed, Warriors had 6'11 Nate Thurmond.

Kareem was the best of them all. His Freshman team at UCLA beat the #1 ranked varsity team, as Freshmen were ineligible back then, when he was called Lew Alcindor. College basketball outlawed the dunk with the Alcindor rule. John Wooden once said Alcindor could Lew could have scored 50 points a game, but he also said UCLA would not have won all those games. Kareem had the unstoppable shot, the skyhook. Kareem also learned martial arts from Bruce Lee, so he wasn't a wimp. Kareem of the 1980's, that most remember, was on the downside of his career.

1970's was a big man era with Kareem, Moses Malone, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, Bill Walton, Robert Parrish as far as the big names.

Not sure Kareem was better than Chamberlain. People forget how athletic Chamberlain was. And talking of rule changes, the NBA drastically changed to combat Chamberlain's dominance - widened the lane, adding offensive goaltending, and maybe the most impressive, banning dunking when shooting free throws - yes, Chamberlain used to dunk free throw shots without a running start. Some of his personality, some drama on the clubs he played for, and certainly the players around him, prevented him winning more titles than he did. But he also played for and starred on two of the best teams of all time - the 1966-67 Sixers and the 1971-72 Lakers.

[Gil Dobie]

I would say that for Mikan and the 1950's, but there were plenty of bigs during the 1960's. Russell's backup was Mel Counts 7', 230 lbs, Wilt was 7' 270 lbs, Knicks had 6-11 Walt Bellamy and 6'9 Willis Reed, Warriors had 6'11 Nate Thurmond.

Kareem was the best of them all. His Freshman team at UCLA beat the #1 ranked varsity team, as Freshmen were ineligible back then, when he was called Lew Alcindor. College basketball outlawed the dunk with the Alcindor rule. John Wooden once said Alcindor could Lew could have scored 50 points a game, but he also said UCLA would not have won all those games. Kareem had the unstoppable shot, the skyhook. Kareem also learned martial arts from Bruce Lee, so he wasn't a wimp. Kareem of the 1980's, that most remember, was on the downside of his career.

1970's was a big man era with Kareem, Moses Malone, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, Bill Walton, Robert Parrish as far as the big names.

Not sure Kareem was better than Chamberlain. People forget how athletic Chamberlain was. And talking of rule changes, the NBA drastically changed to combat Chamberlain's dominance - widened the lane, adding offensive goaltending, and maybe the most impressive, banning dunking when shooting free throws - yes, Chamberlain used to dunk free throw shots without a running start. Some of his personality, some drama on the clubs he played for, and certainly the players around him, prevented him winning more titles than he did. But he also played for and starred on two of the best teams of all time - the 1966-67 Sixers and the 1971-72 Lakers.

Chamberlains started winning when he finally developed into a team oriented player. Scoring average went down, assists went up. He averaged 24 points and 24 rebound for Phily that first championship season and 21 points, 29 rebounds and 9 assists during the playoffs. As you can see his scoring was down from when he was the team.

I give the nod to Kareem, because he was a better Free Throw shooter. Wilt 51%, Kareem 72%.

[GannonFan]

Not sure Kareem was better than Chamberlain. People forget how athletic Chamberlain was. And talking of rule changes, the NBA drastically changed to combat Chamberlain's dominance - widened the lane, adding offensive goaltending, and maybe the most impressive, banning dunking when shooting free throws - yes, Chamberlain used to dunk free throw shots without a running start. Some of his personality, some drama on the clubs he played for, and certainly the players around him, prevented him winning more titles than he did. But he also played for and starred on two of the best teams of all time - the 1966-67 Sixers and the 1971-72 Lakers.

Chamberlains started winning when he finally developed into a team oriented player. Scoring average went down, assists went up. He averaged 24 points and 24 rebound for Phily that first championship season and 21 points, 29 rebounds and 9 assists during the playoffs. As you can see his scoring was down from when he was the team.

I give the nod to Kareem, because he was a better Free Throw shooter. Wilt 51%, Kareem 72%.

He didn't develop into a team player, they just put a team around him finally. Wilt probably would've shot better if they hadn't changed the rules on him halfway through. He shot FT's much better in high school and college. I give the nod to Wilt - he actually played very well against Kareem when Kareem came into the league even though Kareem was 10 years younger and Wilt was all banged up.

[Gil Dobie]

He didn't develop into a team player, they just put a team around him finally. Wilt probably would've shot better if they hadn't changed the rules on him halfway through. He shot FT's much better in high school and college. I give the nod to Wilt - he actually played very well against Kareem when Kareem came into the league even though Kareem was 10 years younger and Wilt was all banged up.

I can't really argue with Wilt as the best either. Both were great players.

[JALMOND]

Irving for sure but I don't know about Love. I think he showed this season exactly what he is, a great player on bad teams. You put players like that on good teams and they don't know what to do (not being the focus of the team). Olynik did the Cavs a favor by forcing Love out of the postseason.

Love injured and Irving healthy would have made a big difference, whereas Irving injured and Love healthy would have got them the same results, if not worse. James needed Irving, he would have got along fine without Love.

Timberwolves were 40-42 in Love's last season and he averaged 26 pts and 12 boards. They split the season series with Portland, 2-2. I wouldn't exactly call a 40-42 team in the West bad, compared to what has been making the playoffs in the East. This year the Wolves had the worst record in the league without Love.

As those young Wolves there now get more experience, they will take that team to heights that Love could only imagine. Wiggins and LaVine will only continue to get better and consequently, the team will, too.

The fact that Cleveland looked better (and actually did play better) without Love on the floor shows that no team will be good with Love as its main threat. Put him on a team that is consistently in the lottery and he will put up his gaudy statistics. Put him on a playoff team and he will disappoint. As Barkley says, "I may be wrong, but I doubt it."

[clenz]

Timberwolves were 40-42 in Love's last season and he averaged 26 pts and 12 boards. They split the season series with Portland, 2-2. I wouldn't exactly call a 40-42 team in the West bad, compared to what has been making the playoffs in the East. This year the Wolves had the worst record in the league without Love.

As those young Wolves there now get more experience, they will take that team to heights that Love could only imagine. Wiggins and LaVine will only continue to get better and consequently, the team will, too.

The fact that Cleveland looked better (and actually did play better) without Love on the floor shows that no team will be good with Love as its main threat. Put him on a team that is consistently in the lottery and he will put up his gaudy statistics. Put him on a playoff team and he will disappoint. As Barkley says, "I may be wrong, but I doubt it."

The sports talk guys in Minneapolis say the exact same thing. None of them would redo the trade they pulled for Wiggins.

Reports of Love being moody, hard to deal with, etc... all came out around playoff time in Cleveland once it was clear he wouldn't be back. The same reports were there in MN but were masked because he was the only guy in town.

Lavine, Wiggins and either big in this draft is one hell of a core to build on. If Pekovic could stay healthy for 65 games to go opposite the new guy it starts to become a team that gets to fighting for a potential 8 seed in a year or two.

Maybe by then the new pod system will be in play and MN can play more East teams to get a few more wins.

I don't think the Bucks were any better than the Wolves last year, but you see the difference in the east and west
Couple that with the travel required by being in the same division as Portland, OKC, Utah and Denver plus many games in California and Arizona. That will take a huge tole on a team

[SDHornet]

Couple that with the travel required by being in the same division as Portland, OKC, Utah and Denver plus many games in California and Arizona. That will take a huge tole on a team

Meh. These guys aren't flying coach and crashing in ratty motels like you and I would be if we were on a similar trip. I'm sure cush private jets and nightly stays in the Ritz Carlton lighten the traveling burden.

[Gil Dobie]

As those young Wolves there now get more experience, they will take that team to heights that Love could only imagine. Wiggins and LaVine will only continue to get better and consequently, the team will, too.

The fact that Cleveland looked better (and actually did play better) without Love on the floor shows that no team will be good with Love as its main threat. Put him on a team that is consistently in the lottery and he will put up his gaudy statistics. Put him on a playoff team and he will disappoint. As Barkley says, "I may be wrong, but I doubt it."

The sports talk guys in Minneapolis say the exact same thing. None of them would redo the trade they pulled for Wiggins.

Reports of Love being moody, hard to deal with, etc... all came out around playoff time in Cleveland once it was clear he wouldn't be back. The same reports were there in MN but were masked because he was the only guy in town.

Lavine, Wiggins and either big in this draft is one hell of a core to build on. If Pekovic could stay healthy for 65 games to go opposite the new guy it starts to become a team that gets to fighting for a potential 8 seed in a year or two.

Maybe by then the new pod system will be in play and MN can play more East teams to get a few more wins.

I don't think the Bucks were any better than the Wolves last year, but you see the difference in the east and west
Couple that with the travel required by being in the same division as Portland, OKC, Utah and Denver plus many games in California and Arizona. That will take a huge tole on a team

Totally agree, the Wiggins trade is looking like a big win for the Wolves. Muhammad also made huge strides last season, just could not keep him away from the injury bug. Wolves played most of the season with 4 starters out. This gave Lavine a lot of playing time that will reap benefits in the future. Curious to see what the Wolves will look like after the draft next year. Rumors are Russell has moved up to #2 on the Wolves draft charts. Is there a block buster trade in the works to get Russell and Towns? Come on Philly, Flip is calling.

[clenz]

The sports talk guys in Minneapolis say the exact same thing. None of them would redo the trade they pulled for Wiggins.

Reports of Love being moody, hard to deal with, etc... all came out around playoff time in Cleveland once it was clear he wouldn't be back. The same reports were there in MN but were masked because he was the only guy in town.

Lavine, Wiggins and either big in this draft is one hell of a core to build on. If Pekovic could stay healthy for 65 games to go opposite the new guy it starts to become a team that gets to fighting for a potential 8 seed in a year or two.

Maybe by then the new pod system will be in play and MN can play more East teams to get a few more wins.

I don't think the Bucks were any better than the Wolves last year, but you see the difference in the east and west
Couple that with the travel required by being in the same division as Portland, OKC, Utah and Denver plus many games in California and Arizona. That will take a huge tole on a team

Totally agree, the Wiggins trade is looking like a big win for the Wolves. Muhammad also made huge strides last season, just could not keep him away from the injury bug. Wolves played most of the season with 4 starters out. This gave Lavine a lot of playing time that will reap benefits in the future. Curious to see what the Wolves will look like after the draft next year. Rumors are Russell has moved up to #2 on the Wolves draft charts. Is there a block buster trade in the works to get Russell and Towns? Come on Philly, Flip is calling.

There's been a lot of talk about maybe trading the #1 pick (wouldn't it be something if they went so many years without getting it and trade it the year they get it) to move to 2 or 3, stock some picks and trade those get to the Russell.


It would be a HUGE coup if they could trade for Wiggins and the following year deal for Towns and Russell.

That likely means Djeng or Peck gets dealt and maybe Rubio as well.

[clenz]

Paul Allen was talking about Love/Cleveland just a bit ago and how Lebron and Love can both opt out and resign.

He, and I agree with him, would be shocked if Love resigned. He doesn't have any friends on the team from the looks of it. His stats aren't as impressive, which hurts his image and he doesn't get a max deal. He's better off signing on a shit team and putting up massive double doubles while getting 20-30 wins to build him imagine of he's just like Dirk.

[GannonFan]

The sports talk guys in Minneapolis say the exact same thing. None of them would redo the trade they pulled for Wiggins.

Reports of Love being moody, hard to deal with, etc... all came out around playoff time in Cleveland once it was clear he wouldn't be back. The same reports were there in MN but were masked because he was the only guy in town.

Lavine, Wiggins and either big in this draft is one hell of a core to build on. If Pekovic could stay healthy for 65 games to go opposite the new guy it starts to become a team that gets to fighting for a potential 8 seed in a year or two.

Maybe by then the new pod system will be in play and MN can play more East teams to get a few more wins.

I don't think the Bucks were any better than the Wolves last year, but you see the difference in the east and west
Couple that with the travel required by being in the same division as Portland, OKC, Utah and Denver plus many games in California and Arizona. That will take a huge tole on a team

Totally agree, the Wiggins trade is looking like a big win for the Wolves. Muhammad also made huge strides last season, just could not keep him away from the injury bug. Wolves played most of the season with 4 starters out. This gave Lavine a lot of playing time that will reap benefits in the future. Curious to see what the Wolves will look like after the draft next year. Rumors are Russell has moved up to #2 on the Wolves draft charts. Is there a block buster trade in the works to get Russell and Towns? Come on Philly, Flip is calling.

Eh, it could happen, but I don't know how right now. The Sixers seem to be moving away from Russell - they're apparently scared off by the sheer lack of athleticism. They may not even take him if he's there at #3. Heck, on the rumors of the Knicks giving this year's #4 for one or more of the Sixers first round picks next year, there's talk that the Sixers could use those picks to get Prozingas and Mudiay and stay away from Russell altogether. But the Sixers aren't trading out of this draft, there will be someone they want at #3.

[clenz]

Totally agree, the Wiggins trade is looking like a big win for the Wolves. Muhammad also made huge strides last season, just could not keep him away from the injury bug. Wolves played most of the season with 4 starters out. This gave Lavine a lot of playing time that will reap benefits in the future. Curious to see what the Wolves will look like after the draft next year. Rumors are Russell has moved up to #2 on the Wolves draft charts. Is there a block buster trade in the works to get Russell and Towns? Come on Philly, Flip is calling.

Eh, it could happen, but I don't know how right now. The Sixers seem to be moving away from Russell - they're apparently scared off by the sheer lack of athleticism. They may not even take him if he's there at #3. Heck, on the rumors of the Knicks giving this year's #4 for one or more of the Sixers first round picks next year, there's talk that the Sixers could use those picks to get Prozingas and Mudiay and stay away from Russell altogether. But the Sixers aren't trading out of this draft, there will be someone they want at #3.

If that's the case the rumor, which was kind of stupid when it first came out and debunked by everyone, that the Wolves and Knicks could work a deal for #4 for Rubio *could* still happen

[JohnStOnge]

Whether James is top 10 all time or not kind of depends to some extent, I think, on whether you're talking about top 10 in absolute terms or top 10 in terms of how he compares to other players of his time. I think that in basketball, like any other sport, players keep getting better overall as time goes on. Like if you took Wilt Chamberlin in his prime, put him in a time machine, and transported him to today he almost certainly would not be nearly as dominant as he was when he played. In fact he might not even stand out as a great player. That sort of thing.

But I am a LeBron James "hater" in the sense that I can't stand seeing pro basketball players turned into social icons. Like "King James" and all that crap. It's a basketball player, for Pete's sake. So I must admit I pull against him because I'm SO sick of seeing the commercials and such. I don't even watch NBA basketball but just listening to the Sports news I'm pulling for James' team to lose just because I can't stand the "hero worship" crap with a friggin' basketball player. I know it's not his fault but it's my visceral reaction.

[Gil Dobie]

Whether James is top 10 all time or not kind of depends to some extent, I think, on whether you're talking about top 10 in absolute terms or top 10 in terms of how he compares to other players of his time. I think that in basketball, like any other sport, players keep getting better overall as time goes on. Like if you took Wilt Chamberlin in his prime, put him in a time machine, and transported him to today he almost certainly would not be nearly as dominant as he was when he played. In fact he might not even stand out as a great player. That sort of thing.

Are assuming Chamberlain had his same training from the 1950's or 1960's, or that he had modern training with AAU basketball allowing him to play all year? The closest modern player to his build was Hakeem Olajuwon, a player that had a decent career. Chamberlain was an athlete, not a big body like Shaq. His track stats from Wiki
high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 yards in 49.0 seconds and the 880 yards in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, and broad jumped 22 feet.