Tiger Woods ------ It's Time!

[AZGrizFan]

Don't see Tiger on the Leaderboard. Long way from being the next Jack.

Jack Nicklaus 18 Majors wins, 19 second place finishes
Tiger Woods 14 Major Wins, 6 second place finishes

LOL and conveniently forget that Tiger is tied with Jack on the all time PGA wins list for second.

And Tiger's prime rips Jack's prime a new one. Tiger in his prime was a freak of nature golf had never seen. Even if Tiger doesn't match Jack's Major Record, if he becomes the #1 all time PGA winner, a case can still be made for Tiger being the best golfer of all time.

I'm not sure how you can even make that statement with a straight face.

[Seahawks08]

go look for yourself. Tiger was ripping people. Tiger has won by 8 strokes or more ten times, including one time at the US Open by 15 strokes. Meanwhile, Jack only did it 3 times. Jack scratched by the competition while Tiger dominated it.

[AZGrizFan]

go look for yourself. Tiger was ripping people. Tiger has won by 8 strokes or more ten times, including one time at the US Open by 15 strokes. Meanwhile, Jack only did it 3 times. Jack scratched by the competition while Tiger dominated it.

Comparing "primes" 40 years apart is seriously just a joke. Different equipment, different greenskeeping, different nutrition, different everything.

[Seahawks08]

Then how would you go about arguing for Jack over Woods? Just the Majors and 2nd place finishes?

[AZGrizFan]

Then how would you go about arguing for Jack over Woods? Just the Majors and 2nd place finishes?

It's just hard to compare, period...but those two stats are pretty good indicators.

[eagleskins]

Asians can't play golf

[Gil Dobie]

During Jack's winning span, his competition won more majors than anyone during Tigers winning span, even if you include the last 4 years. The most during Tigers era is Phil with 4, tied with Ray Floyd who also won exclusively during Jack's span. There was nothing like a Nicklaus charge on a Sunday afternoon. How many times has Tiger come from behind on a Sunday?

Trevino 6 Majors
Palmer 7
Watson 8
Player 9

Some of Jack's near misses from Yahoo sports

1977 British Open: This one was better known as the Duel in the Sun, when Jack and Tom Watson deleted the rest of the field on the weekend. Nicklaus had a birdie putt on the par-5 17th but couldn't convert while Watson made his to go a shot up. What did Jack do? Just roll in a 40-footer for birdie on 18 after Tom hit it to 2 feet, putting the pressure on Watson to stroke his in, which he did.
1982 U.S. Open: You know Jack is confident when he says to friends in the clubhouse that the worst he could do was get in a playoff with Watson after Tom's tee shot missed the green left on 17. You know the story from there. Bruce Edwards tells him to get it close, Watson replies, "Get it close? Hell, I'm going to make it," which he did, and birdied the 18th to beat Jack by two. If that chips doesn't disappear on 17, the playoff would have been very, very likely.
1983 PGA Championship: While it is true that none of Tiger Woods' majors have come from behind, Jack was famous for putting on a show in the final round. This PGA Championship was no different, with Nicklaus charging on Sunday at Riviera to post a 66. It was one shot low to take down Hal Sutton, who claimed his first major.
1972 British Open: Nicklaus closed the '72 British with an improbable 66 after trailing Lee Trevino by six shots heading into Sunday, but Trevino chipped in for par on 17 and then made a great par on 18 to beat Jack by one shot after Nicklaus had already claimed the Masters and U.S. Open earlier in the season. It was the only time in his career that Jack would win the first two majors in a row.
1960 U.S. Open: He wasn't even a pro, but Nicklaus nearly stole his first major from Arnold Palmer at Cherry Hills. Playing with Ben Hogan, Nicklaus shot a final-round 71, but it wasn't good enough as Arnie scorched the course on his way to a 65. Who gave the best commentary on Jack's week? None other than Hogan, who said, "I played with the young man who should have won the U.S. Open."
1971 U.S. Open: If the '77 British is the Duel in the Sun, this one was the Showdown with the Serpent. On the first tee of the 18-hole playoff, Trevino tossed a rubber snake in Jack's direction, which landed a laugh from Nicklaus and an opening birdie. That wouldn't be enough to close out Trevino, who shot 68 to Jack's 71.
1977 Masters: If you've ever heard the words "green" and "jacket" together in the same sentence, you know of Jack's closing 65 in the 1986 Masters. That was incredible, but his final round 66 in '77 was nearly as impressive, if not for a man named Tom. Nicklaus and Watson were tied for the lead at Augusta National, with Jack in the fairway on 18. Tom rolled in a birdie putt on 17 to go up a shot, and it forced Nicklaus to back off his approach shot. Now standing over it knowing he needed a birdie, the Golden Bear tried a more aggressive line, only to dump it in the bunker, make a bogey and give Watson a two-shot victory.

[kalm]

During Jack's winning span, his competition won more majors than anyone during Tigers winning span, even if you include the last 4 years. The most during Tigers era is Phil with 4, tied with Ray Floyd who also won exclusively during Jack's span. There was nothing like a Nicklaus charge on a Sunday afternoon. How many times has Tiger come from behind on a Sunday?

Trevino 6 Majors
Palmer 7
Watson 8
Player 9

Some of Jack's near misses from Yahoo sports

1977 British Open: This one was better known as the Duel in the Sun, when Jack and Tom Watson deleted the rest of the field on the weekend. Nicklaus had a birdie putt on the par-5 17th but couldn't convert while Watson made his to go a shot up. What did Jack do? Just roll in a 40-footer for birdie on 18 after Tom hit it to 2 feet, putting the pressure on Watson to stroke his in, which he did.
1982 U.S. Open: You know Jack is confident when he says to friends in the clubhouse that the worst he could do was get in a playoff with Watson after Tom's tee shot missed the green left on 17. You know the story from there. Bruce Edwards tells him to get it close, Watson replies, "Get it close? Hell, I'm going to make it," which he did, and birdied the 18th to beat Jack by two. If that chips doesn't disappear on 17, the playoff would have been very, very likely.
1983 PGA Championship: While it is true that none of Tiger Woods' majors have come from behind, Jack was famous for putting on a show in the final round. This PGA Championship was no different, with Nicklaus charging on Sunday at Riviera to post a 66. It was one shot low to take down Hal Sutton, who claimed his first major.
1972 British Open: Nicklaus closed the '72 British with an improbable 66 after trailing Lee Trevino by six shots heading into Sunday, but Trevino chipped in for par on 17 and then made a great par on 18 to beat Jack by one shot after Nicklaus had already claimed the Masters and U.S. Open earlier in the season. It was the only time in his career that Jack would win the first two majors in a row.
1960 U.S. Open: He wasn't even a pro, but Nicklaus nearly stole his first major from Arnold Palmer at Cherry Hills. Playing with Ben Hogan, Nicklaus shot a final-round 71, but it wasn't good enough as Arnie scorched the course on his way to a 65. Who gave the best commentary on Jack's week? None other than Hogan, who said, "I played with the young man who should have won the U.S. Open."
1971 U.S. Open: If the '77 British is the Duel in the Sun, this one was the Showdown with the Serpent. On the first tee of the 18-hole playoff, Trevino tossed a rubber snake in Jack's direction, which landed a laugh from Nicklaus and an opening birdie. That wouldn't be enough to close out Trevino, who shot 68 to Jack's 71.
1977 Masters: If you've ever heard the words "green" and "jacket" together in the same sentence, you know of Jack's closing 65 in the 1986 Masters. That was incredible, but his final round 66 in '77 was nearly as impressive, if not for a man named Tom. Nicklaus and Watson were tied for the lead at Augusta National, with Jack in the fairway on 18. Tom rolled in a birdie putt on 17 to go up a shot, and it forced Nicklaus to back off his approach shot. Now standing over it knowing he needed a birdie, the Golden Bear tried a more aggressive line, only to dump it in the bunker, make a bogey and give Watson a two-shot victory.

They're both amazing and the points about comparing from different era's is legit. Jack's second place record is almost as amazing as the wins, and during his prime I think he was equally as impressive. A few years ago I watched a replay of tour event in Florida from the mid-70's where Jack comes from 4 down to win by birdying the final five holes. And to show the difference between the era's he's hitting 2,3,4, nothing less that 5 iron for the approach shots all the way home.

Tiger's win at Pebble though was the most complete and thorough boot stomping in the modern era. I had a buddy who caddies at Pebble and he analyzed the hole by hole scoring when it was all over and Tiger beats the field
match play that week. Now he could be fibbing and I never looked it up to confirm it but if so...

[Gil Dobie]

There's always a chance that Tiger could be Jack's record. Only 3 golfers have won 5 majors after the age of 35..........Jack Nicklaus (6), Hogan (8), Snead(5). Tiger is a great golfer and might have broken the record by now if not for the knee and personal problems.

[kalm]

Of course I think we all know who the real winner was yesterday...

[youtube][/youtube]

[dal4018]

There's always a chance that Tiger could be Jack's record. Only 3 golfers have won 5 majors after the age of 35..........Jack Nicklaus (6), Hogan (8), Snead(5). Tiger is a great golfer and might have broken the record by now if not for the knee and personal problems.

I will say it was the personal stuff away from the course that led to to his downfall.Being attacked at 2:45 am by your wife no way was she trying to say him she ripped him a new one for his infidelities!!!!

[89Hen]

During Jack's winning span, his competition won more majors than anyone during Tigers winning span, even if you include the last 4 years. The most during Tigers era is Phil with 4, tied with Ray Floyd who also won exclusively during Jack's span. ...
Trevino 6 Majors
Palmer 7
Watson 8
Player 9

Not sure I understand this point Gil. You're saying there were more top notch golfers then?

[dbackjon]

During Jack's winning span, his competition won more majors than anyone during Tigers winning span, even if you include the last 4 years. The most during Tigers era is Phil with 4, tied with Ray Floyd who also won exclusively during Jack's span. ...
Trevino 6 Majors
Palmer 7
Watson 8
Player 9

Not sure I understand this point Gil. You're saying there were more top notch golfers then?

That is what I am getting.

That Jack had more competition during his run

[AZGrizFan]

Not sure I understand this point Gil. You're saying there were more top notch golfers then?

That is what I am getting.

That Jack had more competition during his run

There's no doubt the group of golfers that could be considered "great" was significantly larger back then.

[kalm]

Not sure I understand this point Gil. You're saying there were more top notch golfers then?

That is what I am getting.

That Jack had more competition during his run

There's a certain degree of truth to that and you could also throw in the two years that Johnny Miller absolutely dominated into the mix. Tiger hasn't to deal with someone like a Tom Watson who was on fire at various times and absolutely owned one of the majors.

[89Hen]

That is what I am getting.

That Jack had more competition during his run

No chance I agree with that. Back when Nicklaus was winning, there were very few international players of note playing. It really was the US Open.

Number of international golfers with top 10 finishes....

Nicklaus first to last US Open: (* is Gary Player)
1962 - 1 *
1963 - 2 *
1964 - 1
1965 - 3 *
1966 - 0
1967 - 1
1968 - 2
1969 - 2
1970 - 3
1971 - 0
1972 - 1
1973 - 0
1974 - 1 *
1975 - 1
1976 - 0
1977 - 1
1978 - 1 *
1979 - 2 *
1980 - 1
23 in 19 years (only 17 taking out Gary Player)

In last 10 years:
2003 - 7
2004 - 6
2005 - 6
2006 - 7
2007 - 6
2008 - 6
2009 - 7
2010 - 5
2011 - 8
2012 - 6

That's pretty darn stark to me.

[AZGrizFan]

Don't see Tiger on the Leaderboard. Long way from being the next Jack.

Jack Nicklaus 18 Majors wins, 19 second place finishes
Tiger Woods 14 Major Wins, 6 second place finishes

LOL and conveniently forget that Tiger is tied with Jack on the all time PGA wins list for second.

And Tiger's prime rips Jack's prime a new one. Tiger in his prime was a freak of nature golf had never seen. Even if Tiger doesn't match Jack's Major Record, if he becomes the #1 all time PGA winner, a case can still be made for Tiger being the best golfer of all time.

The 1965 PGA tour had 36 events. The 2005 PGA tour had 49 events. Tiger has had a LOT more opportunities to win tournaments than Jack ever could have imagined.

[89Hen]

The 1965 PGA tour had 36 events. The 2005 PGA tour had 49 events. Tiger has had a LOT more opportunities to win tournaments than Jack ever could have imagined.

I don't know if Tiger has ever played more than 20 Tour events in a season. I'd be willing to wager you that Nicklaus played in more Tour events in his first X number of years on tour (how many years has Tiger been on?).

BTW, the PGA Tour does NOT have 49 events. They don't play from mid-November through the Hawaii tourneys the second week of January and don't run events during the Masters or US Open, so unless there are 57 weeks in the year Obama, you're exaggerating.

[kalm]

That is what I am getting.

That Jack had more competition during his run

No chance I agree with that. Back when Nicklaus was winning, there were very few international players of note playing. It really was the US Open.

Number of international golfers with top 10 finishes....

Nicklaus first to last US Open: (* is Gary Player)
1962 - 1 *
1963 - 2 *
1964 - 1
1965 - 3 *
1966 - 0
1967 - 1
1968 - 2
1969 - 2
1970 - 3
1971 - 0
1972 - 1
1973 - 0
1974 - 1 *
1975 - 1
1976 - 0
1977 - 1
1978 - 1 *
1979 - 2 *
1980 - 1
23 in 19 years (only 17 taking out Gary Player)

In last 10 years:
2003 - 7
2004 - 6
2005 - 6
2006 - 7
2007 - 6
2008 - 6
2009 - 7
2010 - 5
2011 - 8
2012 - 6

That's pretty darn stark to me.

Not more, but better competition.

[89Hen]

Not more, but better competition.

The fields of the 70's did not have the best players in the WORLD in them. That's the entire point; you could have a list of players like Nicklaus, Palmer, Player, Watson, etc... BECAUSE there wasn't as much great competition. Throw in 40 of the best international players and those guys don't have nearly as many titles between them.

[AZGrizFan]

The 1965 PGA tour had 36 events. The 2005 PGA tour had 49 events. Tiger has had a LOT more opportunities to win tournaments than Jack ever could have imagined.

I don't know if Tiger has ever played more than 20 Tour events in a season. I'd be willing to wager you that Nicklaus played in more Tour events in his first X number of years on tour (how many years has Tiger been on?).

BTW, the PGA Tour does NOT have 49 events. They don't play from mid-November through the Hawaii tourneys the second week of January and don't run events during the Masters or US Open, so unless there are 57 weeks in the year Obama, you're exaggerating.

I tried to find that number, but was unable. The 49 included the majors.

http://www.pgatour.com/2008/r/winners_a ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting to see the ebb and flow of the number of tour events each year....

[dal4018]

He's a shell of his former self.

Hookers are on speed dial.

That was the reason he lost his place as the top golfer in the first place my brother called him the modern day version of boxer Jack Johnson!!!!!

[dal4018]

LOL and conveniently forget that Tiger is tied with Jack on the all time PGA wins list for second.

And Tiger's prime rips Jack's prime a new one. Tiger in his prime was a freak of nature golf had never seen. Even if Tiger doesn't match Jack's Major Record, if he becomes the #1 all time PGA winner, a case can still be made for Tiger being the best golfer of all time.

The 1965 PGA tour had 36 events. The 2005 PGA tour had 49 events. Tiger has had a LOT more opportunities to win tournaments than Jack ever could have imagined.

Left you a pm on Butch and his comments on Tiger.Jack never won a US Open by an Ungodly like 15 strokes!!!!!!!!

[kalm]

Not more, but better competition.

The fields of the 70's did not have the best players in the WORLD in them. That's the entire point; you could have a list of players like Nicklaus, Palmer, Player, Watson, etc... BECAUSE there wasn't as much great competition. Throw in 40 of the best international players and those guys don't have nearly as many titles between them.

Are you suggesting that there were other golfer overseas, the equivalent of Arnie, Watson etc that chose not to play in the open?

[dal4018]

Butch Harmon said Tiger lost his nerve to put anyone agree???