Best All Time FCS QB

[grizzaholic]

Dave Dickenson = 1
Armanti Edwards = 2
Joe Flacco = 0
Neil Lomax = 0
Steve McNair = 0
Tony Romo = 0
Eric Sanders = 0

Based upon the only stat that really counts with regard to the above group, I would rank the QB’s in the following order

1. Armanti Edwards
2. Dave Dickenson
3+. Everyone else

All other stats are meaningless.....you're either 1st or last....

Since you said you are either 1st or last....why even put DD second?

Why not just put AE number 1 and then a pile of shit afterwards?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Dave Dickenson = 1
Armanti Edwards = 2
Joe Flacco = 0
Neil Lomax = 0
Steve McNair = 0
Tony Romo = 0
Eric Sanders = 0

Based upon the only stat that really counts with regard to the above group, I would rank the QB’s in the following order

1. Armanti Edwards
2. Dave Dickenson
3+. Everyone else

All other stats are meaningless.....you're either 1st or last....

Since you said you are either 1st or last....why even put DD second?

Why not just put AE number 1 and then a pile of shit afterwards?

I'm pretty sure he means you are either first or last in that you either win one (1st), or you do not, in which case you are last.

[Skjellyfetti]

Armanti has the hardware. That's all that matters.

[Grizalltheway]

Thing is, that's really not all that matters.

[Shellin]

I would rank the QB’s in the following order

1. Armanti Edwards
2. Tony Romo
3. Steve McNair
4. Eric Sanders
5. Dave Dickenson
6. Joe Flacco (tough to rate as he only had 2 seasons, very well could be higher)
7. Neil Lomax

1. Armanti Edwards
2. Dave Dickenson
3. Tracy Ham

I'm not really sure where to go after those 3 but I don't know how you can possibly rate Romo or Sanders above Dickenson. Romo and McNair both piled up their numbers against inferior competition and Romo got rolled when he got to the playoffs and didn't get to pick on OVC teams anymore.

The efficiency numbers were interesting, though I'm not sure why DD's is so much lower than some of the other guys in your stats? Higher ypc, very similar accuracy, way more yards and only 3 more interceptions than Sanders despite 451 more career attempts. Maybe I just don't understand how efficiency works but just looking at the stats it doesn't seem like Sanders' efficiency should be over 60 points better than Dickenson.

edit I just went and plugged Dickenson's stats into a couple different NCAA QB Efficiency calculators and his efficiency came out as 167.81, which actually makes him the most efficient passer on that list.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I would rank the QB’s in the following order

1. Armanti Edwards
2. Tony Romo
3. Steve McNair
4. Eric Sanders
5. Dave Dickenson
6. Joe Flacco (tough to rate as he only had 2 seasons, very well could be higher)
7. Neil Lomax

1. Armanti Edwards
2. Dave Dickenson
3. Tracy Ham

I'm not really sure where to go after those 3 but I don't know how you can possibly rate Romo or Sanders above Dickenson. Romo and McNair both piled up their numbers against inferior competition and Romo got rolled when he got to the playoffs and didn't get to pick on OVC teams anymore.

The efficiency numbers were interesting, though I'm not sure why DD's is so much lower than some of the other guys in your stats? Higher ypc, very similar accuracy, way more yards and only 3 more interceptions than Sanders despite 451 more career attempts. Maybe I just don't understand how efficiency works but just looking at the stats it doesn't seem like Sanders' efficiency should be over 60 points better than Dickenson.

edit I just went and plugged Dickenson's stats into a couple different NCAA QB Efficiency calculators and his efficiency came out as 167.81, which actually makes him the most efficient passer on that list.

Making more sense that it was just a mistake or a different way of calculating then compared to now.

To have someone be more efficient isn't inconceivable but it would have to be at least close. From what I watched I've rarely seen a QB do what he did as far as getting the ball to his receivers.

BTW, good to see ya around Shellin.

[Skjellyfetti]

Thing is, that's really not all that matters.

Yeah, you're right. Homer filled polls on the internet are just as important.

[Mvemjsunpx]

Dave Dickenson
1,015-1,477 (68.7%)
13,486 yards (13.2 ypc)
116touchdowns
26 interceptions
98.78 efficiency

Armanti Edwards
511-802 (63.7%)
7,101 yards (13.89 ypc)
62touchdowns
26 interceptions
157.12 efficiency
755 rushes
4,361 yards (5.8 yards per carry)
65 touchdowns

Joe Flacco
596-942 (63.2%)
7,057 yards (11.84 ypc)
41 touchdowns
15 interceptions
137.38 efficiency

Neil Lomax
936-1,606 (58.2%)
13,220 yards (14.12 ypc)
106 touchdowns
55 interceptions
80.13 efficiency

Steve McNair
927-1,680 (55.1%)
14,496 yards (15.63 ypc)
119 touchdowns
58 interceptions
72.94 efficiency
375 rushes
2,237 yards (5.4 ypc)
152 touchdowns

Tony Romo
584-941 (62.0%)
8,212 yards (14.06 ypc)
85 touchdowns
36 interceptions
157.52 efficiency

Eric Sanders
714-1,026 (69.8%) (75.2% as a senior on 315 attempts)
9,012 yards (12.62 ypc)
69 touchdowns
23 interceptions
161.08 rating



So I took the list that we have to vote from, added Eric Sanders (I was going to add Rich Gannon as he was the other one that has been widely discussed but I can’t find his college stats), and compiled their stats to match them up head to head.

I would rank the QB’s in the following order

1. Armanti Edwards
2. Tony Romo
3. Steve McNair
4. Eric Sanders
5. Dave Dickenson
6. Joe Flacco (tough to rate as he only had 2 seasons, very well could be higher)
7. Neil Lomax

Dickenson and Lomax had great looking numbers, but were clearly in a pass happy offense, and weren’t efficient at all. Armanti and McNair brought another dimension to the game that made it almost impossible to plan for them. Flacco very well could be higher, but with only 2 years of PT at the FCS level (he threw 4 passes his first year at UD so I don’t really count that). Sanders is by far the most accurate and efficient passer on the list.

I would like to add Rich Gannon and Jayson Foster to the list but I struggled finding stats for them like I wanted too. Granted I didn’t really look for Foster as I don’t believe he threw the ball much and I would have a hard time adding him as a QB.

I don't know where you got those efficiency rating stats, but they're waaaayyyyy off. It looks like you gave some people college efficiency rating numbers while others have NFL QB Rating numbers (the average is a lower number there).


Here are the right numbers:

1. Dave Dickenson (UMT) - 166.3 167.5 incl. playoffs
2. Eric Sanders (UNI) - 161.4
3. Tony Romo (EIU) - 157.5 156.5 incl. pre-'02 playoffs
4. Armanti Edwards (APP) - 154.2
5. Steve McNair (ALC) - 144.1
6. Neil Lomax (PSU) - 140.1 only FCS years incl.
7. Joe Flacco (UD) - 137.8 only UD years incl.



Former San Diego QB Josh Johnson holds the FCS record with a 176.7 rating, though that was obviously against weak competition. Erik Meyer of EWU is second with a 166.5 and Dickenson is third (would be second if his playoff stats were included).

Playing in a pass-happy offense should reflect well on a QB's passing abilities, not be looked at as a crutch. A run-and-shoot QB has to see defenses that are looking for the pass, while a QB in a run-first offense is seeing a lot more simple, single-coverage situations.

[grizzaholic]

Dave Dickenson
1,015-1,477 (68.7%)
13,486 yards (13.2 ypc)
116touchdowns
26 interceptions
98.78 efficiency

Armanti Edwards
511-802 (63.7%)
7,101 yards (13.89 ypc)
62touchdowns
26 interceptions
157.12 efficiency
755 rushes
4,361 yards (5.8 yards per carry)
65 touchdowns

Joe Flacco
596-942 (63.2%)
7,057 yards (11.84 ypc)
41 touchdowns
15 interceptions
137.38 efficiency

Neil Lomax
936-1,606 (58.2%)
13,220 yards (14.12 ypc)
106 touchdowns
55 interceptions
80.13 efficiency

Steve McNair
927-1,680 (55.1%)
14,496 yards (15.63 ypc)
119 touchdowns
58 interceptions
72.94 efficiency
375 rushes
2,237 yards (5.4 ypc)
152 touchdowns

Tony Romo
584-941 (62.0%)
8,212 yards (14.06 ypc)
85 touchdowns
36 interceptions
157.52 efficiency

Eric Sanders
714-1,026 (69.8%) (75.2% as a senior on 315 attempts)
9,012 yards (12.62 ypc)
69 touchdowns
23 interceptions
161.08 rating



So I took the list that we have to vote from, added Eric Sanders (I was going to add Rich Gannon as he was the other one that has been widely discussed but I can’t find his college stats), and compiled their stats to match them up head to head.

I would rank the QB’s in the following order

1. Armanti Edwards
2. Tony Romo
3. Steve McNair
4. Eric Sanders
5. Dave Dickenson
6. Joe Flacco (tough to rate as he only had 2 seasons, very well could be higher)
7. Neil Lomax

Dickenson and Lomax had great looking numbers, but were clearly in a pass happy offense, and weren’t efficient at all. Armanti and McNair brought another dimension to the game that made it almost impossible to plan for them. Flacco very well could be higher, but with only 2 years of PT at the FCS level (he threw 4 passes his first year at UD so I don’t really count that). Sanders is by far the most accurate and efficient passer on the list.

I would like to add Rich Gannon and Jayson Foster to the list but I struggled finding stats for them like I wanted too. Granted I didn’t really look for Foster as I don’t believe he threw the ball much and I would have a hard time adding him as a QB.

I don't know where you got those efficiency rating stats, but they're waaaayyyyy off. It looks like you gave some people college efficiency rating numbers while others have NFL QB Rating numbers (the average is a lower number there).


Here are the right numbers:

1. Dave Dickenson (UMT) - 166.3 167.5 incl. playoffs
2. Eric Sanders (UNI) - 161.4
3. Tony Romo (EIU) - 157.5 156.5 incl. pre-'02 playoffs
4. Armanti Edwards (APP) - 154.2
5. Steve McNair (ALC) - 144.1
6. Neil Lomax (PSU) - 140.1 only FCS years incl.
7. Joe Flacco (UD) - 137.8 only UD years incl.



Former San Diego QB Josh Johnson holds the FCS record with a 176.7 rating, though that was obviously against weak competition. Erik Meyer of EWU is second with a 166.5 and Dickenson is third (would be second if his playoff stats were included).

Playing in a pass-happy offense should reflect well on a QB's passing abilities, not be looked at as a crutch. A run-and-shoot QB has to see defenses that are looking for the pass, while a QB in a run-first offense is seeing a lot more simple, single-coverage situations.

[UNI88]

Is Joe Montana considered by many to be the greatest Pro QB of all time? Was Joe as physically talented as Dan Marino? No but he had that "it" factor that helped him lead teams to championships. IMO, Ham, AE & DD all had that "it" factor that separates them from the others. I think Eric Sanders had that "it" factor as well but he wasn't as physically talented enough to get his team over the top like the other three.

Joe Montana wasn't better than Dan Marino because of any "it factor," he was better because was he was more accurate & threw fewer interceptions. Montana's career QB rating was about 6 points higher than Marino's.

That's your opinion and there's nothing wrong with it; but focusing on the statistical side of things doesn't make that opinion any more valid than mine. The "it" factor is about leadership and confidence. Some QBs have more of it than others and I think it does make a difference.

IMO, because of injury Ritchie Williams was not as good of a QB physically as Trey Elder in the 2005 NC but he had greater leadership and the team had more confidence in him (the "it" factor) and his coming into the game helped to turn things around for the Mountaineers despite his physical limitations. Do App fans agree with my assessment?

[Appaholic]

Joe Montana wasn't better than Dan Marino because of any "it factor," he was better because was he was more accurate & threw fewer interceptions. Montana's career QB rating was about 6 points higher than Marino's.

That's your opinion and there's nothing wrong with it; but focusing on the statistical side of things doesn't make that opinion any more valid than mine. The "it" factor is about leadership and confidence. Some QBs have more of it than others and I think it does make a difference.

IMO, because of injury Ritchie Williams was not as good of a QB physically as Trey Elder in the 2005 NC but he had greater leadership and the team had more confidence in him (the "it" factor) and his coming into the game helped to turn things around for the Mountaineers despite his physical limitations. Do App fans agree with my assessment?

+1

[Appaholic]

I didn't say that, DJH did....I think Marino is a better QB.

lol, no I did not.

You said that it is "the only stat that counts".

I meant you were the one making the inference that Dilfer is better than Marino since he won the SB (or asking the question as a way to make your point)......I thought that was you, but I could've been wrong...

[blueballs]

A previous poster stated that Edwards had the hardware and that is all that matters.

By that token consider these facts about Tracy Ham: GSC (as it was known in those days) never lost a playoff game with Ham under center. In the 1985 and 1986 championship games he had over 500 yards total offense and accounted for six TD's in EACH game. In the championship games GSC scored 44 in 1985 against Furman and 48 in 1986 against Arkansas State. Also, GSC averaged 51 ppg in the playoffs in 1986.

That's why the guy is in the College Football Hall of Fame. Too bad most of you never got the chance to see him play.

[clenz]

lol, no I did not.

You said that it is "the only stat that counts".

I meant you were the one making the inference that Dilfer is better than Marino since he won the SB (or asking the question as a way to make your point)......I thought that was you, but I could've been wrong...

Regardless, to measure a QB's greatness by only the number of titles he has (or Payton Awards) is asinine.

Now, I could by the Payton Award before the title argument.

However, to leave certain QB's out of the top 5-8 discussion because they didn't have a title when their stats per pass, per completion, efficiency, completion %, win % as a starter, etc... are just as good or better than the others is wrong.

[Appaholic]

I didn't say that, DJH did....I think Marino is a better QB.

But when comparing QB's and all other things being equal (not the case with Marino & Dilfer), the deciding factor should be who got the job done for the team in this team sport....who could rally the entire team to victory as a leader. IMO, leadership is just as an important skill for a QB as passing accuracy once you reach a certain talent level. Jeff George was one of the greatest QB's mechanically, but he'll never be spoken in the same breath as a Favre or Montana because his teammates did not rtrust him as a leader. Ham led his team to 2 titles, Edwards led his team to 2 titles, Williams led his team to 1 title, Dickenson led his team to to 1 title, Landers led his team to 0 titles....all things being equal, I'll take the guy that can lead the team to victory over the guy who can complete 75% of his passes...

Again, UNI not winning a title while Sanders was there does not make Sanders less of a QB.

Sanders completed 75% of 320 pass attempts - yeah that has never been done before, and likely won't be done again (at least not with a QB averaging 13-14 yards per completion like Sanders did).

I would submit to you that coaching and play calling cost UNI at least one title...maybe two...during Sanders time at UNI.


2005 was not Sanders fault. Say what you want about "another QB would have moved in the pocked to avoid it". The fact is it was a blindside hit that was pretty damn quick after the snap. Without Sanders that year UNI doesn't even get to the title game. outgunned Walter Payton Award winner Erik Meyer of Eastern Washington (11/26) in the first round of the NCAA FCS playoffs as Sanders passed for 330 yards and two touchdowns ... UNI trailed 38-24 with less than 10 minutes to go before Sanders led three scoring drives to clinch the 41-38 victory ... guided the Panthers to a 24-21 victory over No. 1-ranked New Hampshire (12/3) in the I-AA quarterfinals by passing for 185 yards, including a 32-yard touchdown pass to running back David Horne that put UNI up 14-0 early in the second quarter ... continued his heroics in the NCAA semifinals with a 40-37 overtime win at No. 4-ranked Texas State ... he began the game on fire by connecting on his first nine passes for 200 yards and a touchdown ... with 5:01 remaining in the game and the Panthers trailing 37-29, Sanders guided the squad to a 10-play 72-yard touchdown drive ... but still in need of a two-point conversion to tie the game, Sanders rolled right and lofted a pass into the back of the end zone that was snared by Surrency to knot the game at 37-37 with 1:27 left ... he earned I-AA.org All-Star honors and was named the national Offensive Player of the Week by Don Hansen's Football Gazette for his efforts against Texas State ... named preseason second team all-Gateway by I-AA.org, ranked the second-best quarterback in the league


2007 UNI was straight rolling through the season. UD pulls into town in the quaters. UNI RB Corey Lewis makes UD look absolutely terrible for 2 quarters. UD has zero answer for Corey Lewis with Eric Sanders running the play fake off of it. However, in the second quarter UNI ran a bubble screen and the WR fumbled the ball and it was run back for UD TD. That was at a bare minimum 10 point swing in that game. After that the coaching staff stopped calling what worked and started to panic. By the time that the coaches went back to what was working it was too late.

Clenz, those are all valid reasons...and who cares? When Armanti, Williams, Ham & Dickenson got their teams to the title game, they weren't satisfied and willed their team into championship status. I'm not saying Sanders isn't a good QB, just that he doesn't belong in the same breath with QB's who had great stats AND led their teams to championships....sometimes multiple championships. Sanders in the top 10 all time? Got no problem with that. Sanders in top 5 all time? You're fokking crazy.....over who? I submit to you that if coaching and playcalling cost UNI the title, then coaching and playcalling were the primary reason Sanders completed 75% of his passes as well...

[Appaholic]

I meant you were the one making the inference that Dilfer is better than Marino since he won the SB (or asking the question as a way to make your point)......I thought that was you, but I could've been wrong...

Regardless, to measure a QB's greatness by only the number of titles he has (or Payton Awards) is asinine.

Now, I could by the Payton Award before the title argument.

However, to leave certain QB's out of the top 5-8 discussion because they didn't have a title when their stats per pass, per completion, efficiency, completion %, win % as a starter, etc... are just as good or better than the others is wrong.

And to include a player in the top 5 who hasn't won a title or at least holds the all-time yardage record (McNair) is asinine as well....considering the amount of great QB's who have both....

[Appaholic]

A previous poster stated that Edwards had the hardware and that is all that matters.

By that token consider these facts about Tracy Ham: GSC (as it was known in those days) never lost a playoff game with Ham under center. In the 1985 and 1986 championship games he had over 500 yards total offense and accounted for six TD's in EACH game. In the championship games GSC scored 44 in 1985 against Furman and 48 in 1986 against Arkansas State. Also, GSC averaged 51 ppg in the playoffs in 1986.

That's why the guy is in the College Football Hall of Fame. Too bad most of you never got the chance to see him play.

I can't argue with including him in the dicussion and certainly in top 5 (or top 3 really with valid case for #1)....I can't BELIEVE I left him off as a choice...

[clenz]

Clenz, those are all valid reasons...and who cares? When Armanti, Williams, Ham & Dickenson got their teams to the title game, they weren't satisfied and willed their team into championship status. I'm not saying Sanders isn't a good QB, just that he doesn't belong in the same breath with QB's who had great stats AND led their teams to championships....sometimes multiple championships. Sanders in the top 10 all time? Got no problem with that. Sanders in top 5 all time? You're fokking crazy.....over who? I submit to you that if coaching and playcalling cost UNI the title, then coaching and playcalling were the primary reason Sanders completed 75% of his passes as well...

Sanders accuracy is all him. Did the play calls give him a good shot to complete the pass? Yep. However, he still had to execute those throws. I know you didn't get to see him play outside of the 05 title game and possible the 07 UD game. The plays he made, the throws he made, and his pocket presence were right there with the best of any QB I have ever watched. He would make plays that should have been dead for a sack into a 20 yard completion.

He led the Panthers to 12 fourth-quarter/overtime victories in his career, posted a 35-9 mark as a starter, set the FCS career record for completion percentage (69.59 percent), and threw one interception in his final 139 pass attempts. It wasn't just that he wasn't throwing incompletions...he wasn't throwing picks.

There is only "so much" Sanders could do in the 07 game against UD when the coaches moved from a game plan that was working into something that wasn't that put UNI in a 2 score hole and forced him to make throws that he shouldn't have had too. He tallied his 12th career fourth quarter/overtime victory in a 38-35 win over New Hampshirein the first round against UNH when hooked up with Montari Leonard on a 24-yard touchdown pass with only seven seconds left to defeat New Hampshire, that was after UNI got the ball with 1:12 left on the clock and no timeouts (maybe had one) and about 70 yards to go.

In 2005 UNI would have been a fist round exit without Sanders. He totaled an FCS-best 1,113 passing yards in the 2005 NCAA FCS playoffs on 87-of-127 passing, which included seven touchdowns. That included ROAD WINS at NUMBER 1 UNH and AT #4 Texas State. That Texas State game consisted of a 10 play 72 yard final 4 minute drive, capped off by a 2 pt conversion to tie the game.



To say Sanders didn't "will his team to victory" because UNI hasn't won a title is...well...asinine.

[clenz]

Regardless, to measure a QB's greatness by only the number of titles he has (or Payton Awards) is asinine.

Now, I could by the Payton Award before the title argument.

However, to leave certain QB's out of the top 5-8 discussion because they didn't have a title when their stats per pass, per completion, efficiency, completion %, win % as a starter, etc... are just as good or better than the others is wrong.

And to include a player in the top 5 who hasn't won a title or at least holds the all-time yardage record (McNair) is asinine as well....considering the amount of great QB's who have both....

You've brought up reasons against him too. The teams he was playing against just weren't good.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Clenz, those are all valid reasons...and who cares? When Armanti, Williams, Ham & Dickenson got their teams to the title game, they weren't satisfied and willed their team into championship status. I'm not saying Sanders isn't a good QB, just that he doesn't belong in the same breath with QB's who had great stats AND led their teams to championships....sometimes multiple championships. Sanders in the top 10 all time? Got no problem with that. Sanders in top 5 all time? You're fokking crazy.....over who? I submit to you that if coaching and playcalling cost UNI the title, then coaching and playcalling were the primary reason Sanders completed 75% of his passes as well...

Sanders accuracy is all him. Did the play calls give him a good shot to complete the pass? Yep. However, he still had to execute those throws. I know you didn't get to see him play outside of the 05 title game and possible the 07 UD game. The plays he made, the throws he made, and his pocket presence were right there with the best of any QB I have ever watched. He would make plays that should have been dead for a sack into a 20 yard completion.

He led the Panthers to 12 fourth-quarter/overtime victories in his career, posted a 35-9 mark as a starter, set the FCS career record for completion percentage (69.59 percent), and threw one interception in his final 139 pass attempts. It wasn't just that he wasn't throwing incompletions...he wasn't throwing picks.

There is only "so much" Sanders could do in the 07 game against UD when the coaches moved from a game plan that was working into something that wasn't that put UNI in a 2 score hole and forced him to make throws that he shouldn't have had too. He tallied his 12th career fourth quarter/overtime victory in a 38-35 win over New Hampshirein the first round against UNH when hooked up with Montari Leonard on a 24-yard touchdown pass with only seven seconds left to defeat New Hampshire, that was after UNI got the ball with 1:12 left on the clock and no timeouts (maybe had one) and about 70 yards to go.

In 2005 UNI would have been a fist round exit without Sanders. He totaled an FCS-best 1,113 passing yards in the 2005 NCAA FCS playoffs on 87-of-127 passing, which included seven touchdowns. That included ROAD WINS at NUMBER 1 UNH and AT #4 Texas State. That Texas State game consisted of a 10 play 72 yard final 4 minute drive, capped off by a 2 pt conversion to tie the game.



To say Sanders didn't "will his team to victory" because UNI hasn't won a title is...well...asinine.

Two things clenz.

The fact that there was only so much he could do is the limitation that keeps him out of the top guys catagory. All the other guys had limitations as well but got it done anyway.

The only reason that you think it's asinine to keep him out because UNI didn't win a title would change completely if UNI had run that gauntlet and won a title. You would be on the side of those that have watched great QB's do all that Sanders did with the addition of winning it all.

If you think about that it's as asinine as anything else on this thread except for JBB.

[clenz]

To say Sanders didn't "will his team to victory" because UNI hasn't won a title is...well...asinine.

Two things clenz.

The fact that there was only so much he could do is the limitation that keeps him out of the top guys catagory. All the other guys had limitations as well but got it done anyway.

The only reason that you think it's asinine to keep him out because UNI didn't win a title would change completely if UNI had run that gauntlet and won a title. You would be on the side of those that have watched great QB's do all that Sanders did with the addition of winning it all.

If you think about that it's as asinine as anything else on this thread except for JBB. [/quote]
When I say "there is only so much he could do" that has nothing to do with his physical attributes. When I say that it is because the game plan switched mid game and limited what he, and the team, could accomplish.

I wish I had a copy of the 07 UD game to show you. UNI completely owned the first quarter and a half, then all of a sudden the coaches tried to change the game plan and when that happened UNI got into a hole that was nearly impossible to dig out of in that type of game.

[grizzaholic]

To say Sanders didn't "will his team to victory" because UNI hasn't won a title is...well...asinine.

Two things clenz.

The fact that there was only so much he could do is the limitation that keeps him out of the top guys catagory. All the other guys had limitations as well but got it done anyway.

The only reason that you think it's asinine to keep him out because UNI didn't win a title would change completely if UNI had run that gauntlet and won a title. You would be on the side of those that have watched great QB's do all that Sanders did with the addition of winning it all.

If you think about that it's as asinine as anything else on this thread except for JBB.

When I say "there is only so much he could do" that has nothing to do with his physical attributes. When I say that it is because the game plan switched mid game and limited what he, and the team, could accomplish.

I wish I had a copy of the 07 UD game to show you. UNI completely owned the first quarter and a half, then all of a sudden the coaches tried to change the game plan and when that happened UNI got into a hole that was nearly impossible to dig out of in that type of game.[/quote]

Watch the tape of SDSU and UM in the playoffs two years ago.

[clenz]

Notice I said in that type of game.

Those were two very different styles of games.

[Appaholic]

Sanders accuracy is all him. Did the play calls give him a good shot to complete the pass? Yep. However, he still had to execute those throws. I know you didn't get to see him play outside of the 05 title game and possible the 07 UD game. The plays he made, the throws he made, and his pocket presence were right there with the best of any QB I have ever watched. He would make plays that should have been dead for a sack into a 20 yard completion.

He led the Panthers to 12 fourth-quarter/overtime victories in his career, posted a 35-9 mark as a starter, set the FCS career record for completion percentage (69.59 percent), and threw one interception in his final 139 pass attempts. It wasn't just that he wasn't throwing incompletions...he wasn't throwing picks.

There is only "so much" Sanders could do in the 07 game against UD when the coaches moved from a game plan that was working into something that wasn't that put UNI in a 2 score hole and forced him to make throws that he shouldn't have had too. He tallied his 12th career fourth quarter/overtime victory in a 38-35 win over New Hampshirein the first round against UNH when hooked up with Montari Leonard on a 24-yard touchdown pass with only seven seconds left to defeat New Hampshire, that was after UNI got the ball with 1:12 left on the clock and no timeouts (maybe had one) and about 70 yards to go.

In 2005 UNI would have been a fist round exit without Sanders. He totaled an FCS-best 1,113 passing yards in the 2005 NCAA FCS playoffs on 87-of-127 passing, which included seven touchdowns. That included ROAD WINS at NUMBER 1 UNH and AT #4 Texas State. That Texas State game consisted of a 10 play 72 yard final 4 minute drive, capped off by a 2 pt conversion to tie the game.



To say Sanders didn't "will his team to victory" because UNI hasn't won a title is...well...asinine.

Two things clenz.

The fact that there was only so much he could do is the limitation that keeps him out of the top guys catagory. All the other guys had limitations as well but got it done anyway.

The only reason that you think it's asinine to keep him out because UNI didn't win a title would change completely if UNI had run that gauntlet and won a title. You would be on the side of those that have watched great QB's do all that Sanders did with the addition of winning it all.

If you think about that it's as asinine as anything else on this thread except for JBB.

[DJH]

There are many UNI fans like clenz that simply like to blame that Delaware on playcalling, and like to say that we simply gave up on the running game. It's just not the case.

If you look at the stats, we ran a very balanced offense, just as we had done all season long, throwing 38 times and rushing 36. Yes we dominated on the ground all day long. But we didn't 'go away' from the running game. Maybe we did a bit when we were down by double digits late int the second half, but we HAD to.

The game was lost because of two reasons:

1) We could not get Flacco off the field on 3rd downs. 13 of 20 on 3rd downs, and it seemed like all of those conversions were in the second half. For whatever reason, we just couldn't make the plays we needed to make by hitting flacco on that day. UNI, btw, was 4 of 10 on 3rd downs.

2) Turnovers. Two horrible fumbles by UNI, one of which was returned for a TD. And UNI forced 0 turnovers by UD.


UNI just did not have a good day. That's all there is too it, and that's the nature of the game. I do believe that that UNI was the best team in the country in 2007. We just had a bad day, and ran into an NFL QB.

http://www.unipanthers.com/sports/m-foo ... ifb13.html