Coronavirus COVID-19

[BDKJMU]

Yep. And now he apparently has a big following on something called ‘Substack’. Be’s been on the Clay Travis/Buck Sexton show multiple times, including 2x this week. Apparently he’s going to be on there weekly now. The show launched in June on more than 400 stations nationwide in Rush Limbaugh‘s noon-3 PM slot, making it one of the biggest launches in talk show radio history. Including their daily podcast, they have an audience of millions. And this weekend after being kicked off twitter, Berenson has been covered on virtaully every conservative outlet there is. Twitter’s attempt to censor Alex Berenson will fail.

I don’t know, man. Trump is a virtual non-entity since his banning.

Well, a non entity on most of social media. But he has been on conservative outlets lile the Clay Travis/Buck Sexton Show, Tucker Carlson, Hannity), had some big rallies that millions have watched on tv or online.

[AZGrizFan]

I don’t know, man. Trump is a virtual non-entity since his banning.

Well, a non entity on most of social media. But he has been on conservative outlets lile the Clay Travis/Buck Sexton Show, Tucker Carlson, Hannity), had some big rallies that millions have watched on tv or online.

It was a joke, bro. A joke.

[kalm]

I don’t know, man. Trump is a virtual non-entity since his banning.

Well, a non entity on most of social media. But he has been on conservative outlets lile the Clay Travis/Buck Sexton Show, Tucker Carlson, Hannity), had some big rallies that millions have watched on tv or online.

And still wrong regarding Covid…which is what should matter…regardless of politics.

[Gil Dobie]

Well, a non entity on most of social media. But he has been on conservative outlets lile the Clay Travis/Buck Sexton Show, Tucker Carlson, Hannity), had some big rallies that millions have watched on tv or online.

And still wrong regarding Covid…which is what should matter…regardless of politics.

After the first month where Trump gave briefings on Covid, he changed his game-plan and began hiding like Biden, or coming up with Dementia Joe ramblings of cures for covid.

[SDHornet]

You should. Who doesn’t like to have a little warm blanket of confirmation bias…even if it’s obviously wrong…


https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/10/ ... trarianism

Yes, you go ahead and blindly believe everything the government and it’s associated agencies tell you. It’s served the country so well so far.

Why doubt the government on the China Virus now? They've been right on everything so far.

[SDHornet]

If DeSantis, Abbott, etc. are all vaccinated, wouldn't the responsible, "adult in the room" thing for them to do include encouraging elderly people, people with comorbidities, people at risk to get vaccinated?

I believe FL has one of the better vaccination rates among those at higher risks. The "DeSantis isn't pushing vaccines" is a false narrative.

[SDHornet]

Im not quite sure what you’re trying to say here, Captain Hyperbole, but libertarian philosophical scolding falls a little flat during times of crisis.

Of course “crisis” is exactly what the libtards want us to believe.

Amirite?!?

Really? It’s not clear what I’m trying to say? Let me try again:

America was founded by RISK takers—yeah, lets get into a leaky, 75’ sailing vessel and spend six months at sea, not knowing what awaits us at the other end or if we’ll even MAKE it to the other side. If our ancestors had been risk averse, America wouldn’t exist.

America was BUILT on risk—yeah, let’s take on the most powerful military in the world because (wait for it), they’re trying to tell us what we can and can’t do, and trying to tax us into oblivion. Imagine if the framers of the constitution and the Declaration of Independence (who, lets face it, had the absolute MOST to lose by being associated with those documents and that strategic direction) said instead “Nah, fuck it. Let’s just live under the thumb of England forever.”

America was expanded by taking huge, incalculable RISKS—the westward expansion, Manifest Destiny, the Louisiana Purchase, Alaskan purchase, Lewis & Clark’s expedition. Mountain men. Fur trappers. Explorers. All GIGANTIC risk takers.

America has prospered and become the greatest nation on earth not by being risk AVERSE but by Americans taking big hairy audacious RISKS. It’s NEVER been about risk “aversion”. And it’s almost always been with a jaundiced eye turned towards DC, and a suspicion of the motives of those in power.

But today’s libtard Americans are more than willing to abdicate just about every freedom they have in the name of their “safety”. They’ll fucking stand in line like sheep to willingly give up their freedom if their benevolent, bloated, power-hungry government will just take care of them and “keep them safe” for a few more days/weeks/months. In times of crisis they’ll cower in their basements, bleating, waiting for the government to come and save them. Meanwhile, life passes them by, because they’re afraid of everything including a virus that they have a 99.57% chance of survival from and right up to and including their own shadows.


There. Does that clear it up?

This...all of this.

[SDHornet]

You should. Who doesn’t like to have a little warm blanket of confirmation bias…even if it’s obviously wrong…


https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/10/ ... trarianism

Twitter didn't like his tone on the vaccine, so they suspended him. He'd been doing laps all day highlighting the recent Israeli studies on the differences between recovered immunity and vaccine induced.

Yep. It's going to be something to keep an eye on. Read an article today (Nat Geo I believe) that talked about a very high viral loading in vaccinated folks and how that may be contributing to this current spike as they are likely spreading the China Virus around. Interesting times ahead.

[SDHornet]

Twitter didn't like his tone on the vaccine, so they suspended him. He'd been doing laps all day highlighting the recent Israeli studies on the differences between recovered immunity and vaccine induced.

He was thoroughly debunked as contrarian grifter last year. I really don’t care how Twitter chose to deal with it.

In other words, "fuck free speech".

Real good hot take there klammy.

[kalm]

He was thoroughly debunked as contrarian grifter last year. I really don’t care how Twitter chose to deal with it.

In other words, "fuck free speech".

Real good hot take there klammy.

So many conks needing a remedial lesson in what freedom means.

[Ivytalk]

In other words, "fuck free speech".

Real good hot take there klammy.

So many conks needing a remedial lesson in what freedom means.

And you, as a card-carrying member of the left and supporter of government initiatives far and wide, are perfectly positioned to give that lesson.

[kalm]

Floating around the FB but spot on. The current push back against vaccines is the highest form of cognitive dissonance.

I'm vaccinated and, no, I don't know what's in it - neither this vaccine, the ones I had as a child, nor in the Big Mac, or in hot dogs, or in other treatments…whether it's for cancer, AIDS, the one for polyarthritis, or vaccines for infants or children. I trust my doctor when he says it’s needed.

I also don't know what's in Ibuprofen, Tylenol, or other meds, it just cures my headaches & my pains ...

I don't know what's in the ink for tattoos, vaping, or every ingredient in my soap or shampoo or even deodorants. I don’t know the long term effect of cell phone use or whether or not that restaurant I just ate at REALLY used clean foods and washed their hands.

In short ...

There's a lot of things I don't know and never will…

I just know one thing: life is short, very short, and I still want to do something other than just going to work every day or staying locked in my home. I still want to travel and hug people without fear and find a little feeling of life "before".

As a child and as an adult I've been vaccinated for mumps, measles, rubella, polio, chicken pox, and quite a few others; my parents and I trusted the science and never had to suffer through or transmit any of said diseases ... just saying.

I'm vaccinated, not to please the government but:

* To not die from Covid-19.

* To NOT clutter a hospital bed if I get sick.

* To hug my loved ones

* To Not have to do PCR or antigenic tests to go out dancing, go to a restaurant, go on holidays and many more things to come ...

* To live my life.

* To have my kids/grandkids go back to school and play sports.

* For Covid-19 to be an old memory.

* To protect us.

I remember getting all those vaccinations as a kid and having to present your vaccination records before you could start school... it wasn't a big deal then and it shouldn't be now.

JUST GET The SHOT.

(Text copied, you can too.)

[SeattleGriz]

Floating around the FB but spot on. The current push back against vaccines is the highest form of cognitive dissonance.

I'm vaccinated and, no, I don't know what's in it - neither this vaccine, the ones I had as a child, nor in the Big Mac, or in hot dogs, or in other treatments…whether it's for cancer, AIDS, the one for polyarthritis, or vaccines for infants or children. I trust my doctor when he says it’s needed.

I also don't know what's in Ibuprofen, Tylenol, or other meds, it just cures my headaches & my pains ...

I don't know what's in the ink for tattoos, vaping, or every ingredient in my soap or shampoo or even deodorants. I don’t know the long term effect of cell phone use or whether or not that restaurant I just ate at REALLY used clean foods and washed their hands.

In short ...

There's a lot of things I don't know and never will…

I just know one thing: life is short, very short, and I still want to do something other than just going to work every day or staying locked in my home. I still want to travel and hug people without fear and find a little feeling of life "before".

As a child and as an adult I've been vaccinated for mumps, measles, rubella, polio, chicken pox, and quite a few others; my parents and I trusted the science and never had to suffer through or transmit any of said diseases ... just saying.

I'm vaccinated, not to please the government but:

* To not die from Covid-19.

* To NOT clutter a hospital bed if I get sick.

* To hug my loved ones

* To Not have to do PCR or antigenic tests to go out dancing, go to a restaurant, go on holidays and many more things to come ...

* To live my life.

* To have my kids/grandkids go back to school and play sports.

* For Covid-19 to be an old memory.

* To protect us.

I remember getting all those vaccinations as a kid and having to present your vaccination records before you could start school... it wasn't a big deal then and it shouldn't be now.

JUST GET The SHOT.

(Text copied, you can too.)

You can't seriously have this discussion without taking COVID Ab titers into account. Requiring someone to get a vaccine when they already have natural immunity is wrong, especially in light of how poorly the vaccines fared against recovered immunity.

[kalm]

Floating around the FB but spot on. The current push back against vaccines is the highest form of cognitive dissonance.

You can't seriously have this discussion without taking COVID Ab titers into account. Requiring someone to get a vaccine when they already have natural immunity is wrong, especially in light of how poorly the vaccines fared against recovered immunity.

Don’t know what “AB titers” are? Are they the same as hangers?

A recent study out of Israel suggests natural immunity once you’ve had it lasts longer than the vaccines. But I’m guessing not forever and/or against variants.

[∞∞∞]

I'm not a fan of posting excerpts off Reddit due to unreliable narrators, but I'm going to make an exception because I think it really encompasses what people are dealing with now:

I’ll just put a little rant here. I have endometriosis and I’ve been dying of pain for months, bleeding profusely, and I can’t have a much needed surgery because there are no beds in the ICU. I’m so fucking sick of seeing the idiots screeching about this vaccine. You’re hurting me, yourselves, and lots of other people like myself that need surgeries and an ICU bed for a day or 2. Get the shot or get out of the way...

...Your “choice” is taking away choices for those of us who didn’t get to choose our illnesses.

I’ve got a torn meniscus, cyst, and benign tumor in my knee. My knee surgery was postponed for the COVID surge. I’m active duty Army and I can barely walk; worse, my baby girl starts outdoor soccer next week and I can’t play in the backyard with her. At first I was disheartened and now I’m angry and almost resentful.

My son hit his head this weekend, had a wound that could have used a small stitch. Called dr to check in.... they actively suggested NOT going to the hospital because we’d have to wait hours to be seen, risk him getting Covid and by that point it may be too late to do anything anyway. Fuck anyone who refuses the vaccine.

I’m gonna have to deliver my baby alone next month. I don’t think the hospital is going to allow my husband to be there even though he’s fully vaccinated. So, yeah… not happy about it.

Plenty more angry Americans here:

[kalm]

You can't seriously have this discussion without taking COVID Ab titers into account. Requiring someone to get a vaccine when they already have natural immunity is wrong, especially in light of how poorly the vaccines fared against recovered immunity.

Don’t know what “AB titers” are? Are they the same as hangers?

A recent study out of Israel suggests natural immunity once you’ve had it lasts longer than the vaccines. But I’m guessing not forever and/or against variants.

Guess there’s more to the story. Still much to learn…

The booster-industrial complex

By: David Leonhardt
The New York Times

Good morning. Vaccine immunity may not really be waning much — which means universal booster shots may do little good.

Late last month, researchers in Israel released some alarming new Covid-19 data. The data showed that many Israelis who had been among the first to receive the vaccine were nonetheless catching the Covid virus. Israelis who had been vaccinated later were not getting infected as often.

The study led to headlines around the world about waning immunity — the idea that vaccines lose their effectiveness over time. In the U.S., the Israeli study accelerated a debate about vaccine booster shots and played a role in the Biden administration’s recent recommendation that all Americans receive a booster shot eight months after their second dose.

But the real story about waning immunity is more complex than the initial headlines suggested. Some scientists believe that the Israeli data was misleading and that U.S. policy on booster shots has gotten ahead of the facts. The evidence for waning immunity is murky, these scientists say, and booster shots may not have a big effect.

After returning from an August break last week, I have spent time reaching out to scientists to ask for their help in understanding the current, confusing stage of the pandemic. How worried should vaccinated people be about the Delta variant? How much risk do children face? Which parts of the Covid story are being overhyped, and which deserve more attention?

I will be trying to answer these questions in the coming weeks. (I’d also like to know what questions you want answered; submit them here.)

One of the main messages I’m hearing from the experts is that conventional wisdom about waning immunity is problematic. Yes, the immunity from the Covid vaccines will wane at some point. But it may not yet have waned in a meaningful way.

“There’s a big difference between needing another shot every six months versus every five years,” Dr. David Dowdy, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University, told me. “So far, looking at the data we have, I’m not seeing much evidence that we’ve reached that point yet.”


At first glance, the Israeli data seems straightforward: People who had been vaccinated in the winter were more likely to contract the virus this summer than people who had been vaccinated in the spring.

Yet it would truly be proof of waning immunity only if the two groups — the winter and spring vaccine recipients — were otherwise similar to each other. If not, the other differences between them might be the real reason for the gap in the Covid rates.

As it turns out, the two groups were different. The first Israelis to have received the vaccine tended to be more affluent and educated. By coincidence, these same groups later were among the first exposed to the Delta variant, perhaps because they were more likely to travel. Their higher infection rate may have stemmed from the new risks they were taking, not any change in their vaccine protection.

Statisticians have a name for this possibility — when topline statistics point to a false conclusion that disappears when you examine subgroups. It’s called Simpson’s Paradox.

This paradox may also explain some of the U.S. data that the C.D.C. has cited to justify booster shots. Many Americans began to resume more indoor activities this spring. That more were getting Covid may reflect their newfound Covid exposure (as well as the arrival of Delta), rather than any waning of immunity over time.

‘Where is it?’

Sure enough, other data supports the notion that vaccine immunity is not waning much.

The ratio of positive Covid tests among older adults and children, for example, does not seem to be changing, Dowdy notes. If waning immunity were a major problem, we should expect to see a faster rise in Covid cases among older people (who were among the first to receive shots). And even the Israeli analysis showed that the vaccines continued to prevent serious Covid illness at essentially the same rate as before.

“If there’s data proving the need for boosters, where is it?” Zeynep Tufekci, the sociologist and Times columnist, has written.

Part of the problem is that the waning-immunity story line is irresistible to many people. The vaccine makers — Pfizer, Moderna and others — have an incentive to promote it, because booster shots will bring them big profits. The C.D.C. and F.D.A., for their part, have a history of extreme caution, even when it harms public health. We in the media tend to suffer from bad-news bias. And many Americans are so understandably frightened by Covid that they pay more attention to alarming signs than reassuring ones.

The bottom line

Here’s my best attempt to give you an objective summary of the evidence, free from alarmism — and acknowledging uncertainty:

Immunity does probably wane modestly within the first year of receiving a shot. For this reason, booster shots make sense for vulnerable people, many experts believe. As Dr. Céline Gounder of Bellevue Hospital Center told my colleague Apoorva Mandavilli, the C.D.C.’s data “support giving additional doses of vaccine to highly immunocompromised persons and nursing home residents, not to the general public.”

The current booster shots may do little good for most people. The vaccines continue to provide excellent protection against illness (as opposed to merely a positive Covid test). People will eventually need boosters, but it may make more sense to wait for one specifically designed to combat a variant. “We don’t know whether a non-Delta booster would improve protection against Delta,” Dr. Aaron Richterman of the University of Pennsylvania told me.

A national policy of frequent booster shots has significant costs, financially and otherwise. Among other things, the exaggerated discussion of waning immunity contributes to vaccine skepticism.

While Americans are focusing on booster shots, other policies may do much more to beat back Covid, including more vaccine mandates in the U.S.; a more rapid push to vaccinate the world (and prevent other variants from taking root); and an accelerated F.D.A. study of vaccines for children.

As always, we should be open to changing our minds as we get new evidence. As Richterman puts it, “We have time to gather the appropriate evidence before rushing into boosters.”

[Ivytalk]

Good information about boosters, considering the source (NYT). Worth reading in its entirety.

Given Leonhardt’s penultimate paragraph, I wonder if he will be equally dispassionate when it comes to vaccine mandates.

[SeattleGriz]

You can't seriously have this discussion without taking COVID Ab titers into account. Requiring someone to get a vaccine when they already have natural immunity is wrong, especially in light of how poorly the vaccines fared against recovered immunity.

Don’t know what “AB titers” are? Are they the same as hangers?

A recent study out of Israel suggests natural immunity once you’ve had it lasts longer than the vaccines. But I’m guessing not forever and/or against variants.

Sorry, nerd speak. Antibody titers is essential how much COVID antibodies you have in your system, although I do like measuring hangers instead!

If you have enough, they consider a person immune.

[∞∞∞]

Just until schools start mandating the vaccine for children. Then you are going to see a real war.

Like we mandate vaccines today?

https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/fa ... 97dcc.html

Washington Post article, which is behind a paywall, says it's a nationwide first. Proud of our public school system today.

[BDKJMU]

Well, a non entity on most of social media. But he has been on conservative outlets lile the Clay Travis/Buck Sexton Show, Tucker Carlson, Hannity), had some big rallies that millions have watched on tv or online.

It was a joke, bro. A joke.

10-4, my bad.

[BDKJMU]

Like we mandate vaccines today?

https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/fa ... 97dcc.html

Washington Post article, which is behind a paywall, says it's a nationwide first. Proud of our public school system today.

Notice the date. Mon, 11/8. And it doesn’t apply to fall sports. Still sucks for those kids playing winter and spring sports to be mandated something that totally unecessary for most teens..

[∞∞∞]

https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/fa ... 97dcc.html

Washington Post article, which is behind a paywall, says it's a nationwide first. Proud of our public school system today.

Notice the date. Mon, 11/8. And it doesn’t apply to fall sports. Still sucks for those kids playing winter and spring sports to be mandated something that totally unecessary for most teens..

And? Not really fair to immediately ban kids who aren't vaccinated. Need to give some heads up.

We mandate other vaccines for school sports (and school in general), so not sure what the issue is with this one. Per the article, 75.4% of high schoolers 16-18 in the County are already vaccinated with at least one dose.

[GannonFan]

Notice the date. Mon, 11/8. And it doesn’t apply to fall sports. Still sucks for those kids playing winter and spring sports to be mandated something that totally unecessary for most teens..

And? Not really fair to immediately ban kids who aren't vaccinated. Need to give some heads up.

We mandate other vaccines for school sports (and school in general), so not sure what the issue is with this one. Per the article, 75.4% of high schoolers 16-18 in the County are already vaccinated with at least one dose.

I'm all for it. I don't think any schools necessarily have mandated other vaccines for sports (not that I know of) but they certainly mandate them for school. And as you said, the 12-18 year old set was pretty good about getting the vaccines when they became available, so it should be pretty straightforward for most.

[∞∞∞]

And? Not really fair to immediately ban kids who aren't vaccinated. Need to give some heads up.

We mandate other vaccines for school sports (and school in general), so not sure what the issue is with this one. Per the article, 75.4% of high schoolers 16-18 in the County are already vaccinated with at least one dose.

I'm all for it. I don't think any schools necessarily have mandated other vaccines for sports (not that I know of) but they certainly mandate them for school. And as you said, the 12-18 year old set was pretty good about getting the vaccines when they became available, so it should be pretty straightforward for most.

Somewhat related, but I was with a teacher friend this weekend. We were talking about the mask mandate and she was saying how the kids didn't care, ran around just fine with masks, wore them all day without complaining...basically it was a non-issue. Some kids even had some cool masks on that they loved (ex was a Joker smile mask).

And how a vocal minority of parents were being more childish than the children themselves about masks and teachers/admin having to deal with them during this first week.

[GannonFan]

I'm all for it. I don't think any schools necessarily have mandated other vaccines for sports (not that I know of) but they certainly mandate them for school. And as you said, the 12-18 year old set was pretty good about getting the vaccines when they became available, so it should be pretty straightforward for most.

Somewhat related, but I was with a teacher friend this weekend. We were talking about the mask mandate and she was saying how the kids didn't care, ran around just fine with masks, wore them all day without complaining...basically it was a non-issue

And how a vocal minority of parents were being more childish than the children themselves about masks and teachers/admin having to deal with them during this first week.

Well, I don't think you have any kids yourself so you might be speaking out of hand here. I have kids, and my wife is a teacher in a different school district, and I can tell you they pretty much universally hate having to wear masks. Most people don't like wearing masks, but a school setting is even worse - think of how much during the day the teacher has to talk and the kids talk and it does get in the way of being heard clearly.

Masks are a necessary evil in most schools, but don't delude yourself in thinking they're no big deal, they would ditch masks in a heartbeat if they could.

Masks are mandatory in my wife's school right now, and are optional in my kid's district. I'll be reinforcing with them that I think they should be wearing masks, but my kids are two in high school and one in middle school and they're going to make their own decisions once I'm not watching. They are all vaccinated so at least they're covered there.