2018 SCOTUS cases

[CAA Flagship]

This was also a problem with mail order and phone order transactions, so it's nothing new. But online shopping has gotten so big that they are finally getting around to coming up with a solution. Maybe it won't be perfect, but it's a step in the right direction to level the playing field with the local stores.

[Ibanez]

This was also a problem with mail order and phone order transactions, so it's nothing new. But online shopping has gotten so big that they are finally getting around to coming up with a solution. Maybe it won't be perfect, but it's a step in the right direction to level the playing field with the local stores.

You're right. ~ 2% of homes had internet in 1992. I think that number is now closer to 80-85%.

[kalm]

Technically it's a Use Tax.

It's not a tax on the sale of an item, it's a tax for bringing the item into your home state an using the product.

That’s correct.

I have to deal with this a little bit for the business. We pay sales tax on all taxable revenue regardless of where it’s purchased. If someone out of state pays a tournament entry fee online, I’m still paying tax on the green fee/course rental, food and beverage, door prize...any taxable items or services under WA State law...regardless of where or whether it’s collected for the original transaction.

[CAA Flagship]

Technically it's a Use Tax.

It's not a tax on the sale of an item, it's a tax for bringing the item into your home state an using the product.

That’s correct.

I have to deal with this a little bit for the business. We pay sales tax on all taxable revenue regardless of where it’s purchased. If someone out of state pays a tournament entry fee online, I’m still paying tax on the green fee/course rental, food and beverage, door prize...any taxable items or services under WA State law...regardless of where or whether it’s collected for the original transaction.

Yes. WA is where the transaction (goods and services deliverables) was completed. This makes cents .

[kalm]

That’s correct.

I have to deal with this a little bit for the business. We pay sales tax on all taxable revenue regardless of where it’s purchased. If someone out of state pays a tournament entry fee online, I’m still paying tax on the green fee/course rental, food and beverage, door prize...any taxable items or services under WA State law...regardless of where or whether it’s collected for the original transaction.

Yes. WA is where the transaction (goods and services deliverables) was completed. This makes cents .

The financial transaction was completed elsewhere. That would be like saying your Amazon transaction wasn't completed until UPS delivered it.

[CAA Flagship]

Yes. WA is where the transaction (goods and services deliverables) was completed. This makes cents .

The financial transaction was completed elsewhere. That would be like saying your Amazon transaction wasn't completed until UPS delivered it.

What if you didn't receive what you ordered from Amazon? Is it considered "complete" then?

[kalm]

The financial transaction was completed elsewhere. That would be like saying your Amazon transaction wasn't completed until UPS delivered it.

What if you didn't receive what you ordered from Amazon? Is it considered "complete" then?

For the sake of this conversation and in general, the Department of Revenue considers it complete when the financial transaction is made...nitpicker.

[GannonFan]

In that scenario the product is physically in DC at the point of sale. So DC paying DC sales tax makes sense.

Say you have a small business/mom and pop. If they are required to charge sales tax on all online orders for the state they are located in that is pretty simple- they charge their respective state's sales tax, and local sales tax if any.

If they have to charge sales tax for there the buyer is sitting behind a computer, then they have to deal with 45 different state sales taxes, and thousands of local sales taxes (some states have local sales taxes). Not a big deal for a behemoth like Amazon, but that can be a big burden for a small business.

Pretty sure someone will come up with an app or program or website that may or may not be integrated into the billing system that has all that info loaded based on the zip code. It really isn't that difficult.

Now, getting to your point of sale comment, what if you go online and order something from a Delaware company but the product is sitting in a NY warehouse, and that is what is shipped to your PA address? It's easier to settle the issue on where the consumer is, not where the product is at the point of sale.

I'm not worried about the ability of the "mom and pop" stores to be able to correctly charge the right amount of sales tax (i.e. figure out where the sale will go to and what the sales tax is there). We're not talking about an infinite amount of states, we're talking about 50 of them, and then maybe through in municipalities too. We live in a pretty technological age, it's not terribly difficult to find a program/app that will do the work for you. This was a problem maybe 15-20 years ago, when apps were few and nonexistent. That's not the case today and the SCOTUS was correct in recognizing that compliance is far easier now.

[BDKJMU]

Pretty sure someone will come up with an app or program or website that may or may not be integrated into the billing system that has all that info loaded based on the zip code. It really isn't that difficult.

Now, getting to your point of sale comment, what if you go online and order something from a Delaware company but the product is sitting in a NY warehouse, and that is what is shipped to your PA address? It's easier to settle the issue on where the consumer is, not where the product is at the point of sale.

What is the easiest solution - charge sales tax based on the destination or vendor location? I think there are good arguments either way. For small companies, even with modern accounting software, collecting and remitting 45 different state sales taxes is burdensome. Then again - thee is modern accounting software that can easily handle this. Companies like Amazon are already collecting sales taxes in multiple states so the burden will really rest on those small-medium companies, especially the ones that are earning closer to the $100k.

BDK, I thought you'd love this? It ends a corporate handout and Trump loves it. You love Trump. Does he know you aren't being loyal?

If you include local county and/or city sales taxes, which you have in a # of states, I believe that 45 jumps into the thousands.

I don’t see it as a corporate handout. And I know it maight come as a shock, but I dknt agree with Trump on everything. This is one of those instances.

Odd isnt it. You have people who disagree with Trump on most things, agreeing with him here, and vice versa. And SCOTUS’s 5-4 wasnt a typical 5-4 along the conservative/liberal line..

[BDKJMU]

Pretty sure someone will come up with an app or program or website that may or may not be integrated into the billing system that has all that info loaded based on the zip code. It really isn't that difficult.

Now, getting to your point of sale comment, what if you go online and order something from a Delaware company but the product is sitting in a NY warehouse, and that is what is shipped to your PA address? It's easier to settle the issue on where the consumer is, not where the product is at the point of sale.

I'm not worried about the ability of the "mom and pop" stores to be able to correctly charge the right amount of sales tax (i.e. figure out where the sale will go to and what the sales tax is there). We're not talking about an infinite amount of states, we're talking about 50 of them, and then maybe through in municipalities too. We live in a pretty technological age, it's not terribly difficult to find a program/app that will do the work for you. This was a problem maybe 15-20 years ago, when apps were few and nonexistent. That's not the case today and the SCOTUS was correct in recognizing that compliance is far easier now.

Again with those municipal sales taxes in a lot of states the # of different sales tax jurisdictions is in the thousands.
State Sales Tax Jurisdictions Approach 10,000

https://taxfoundation.org/state-sales-t ... oach-10000

So what makes more sense? Having to deal with 1 to 3 sales tax jurisdictions, or 10,000?

[CAA Flagship]

So what makes more sense? Having to deal with 1 to 3 sales tax jurisdictions, or 10,000?

Every high school and college in the country has a code associated with it to be used for various reasons. That's more than 40k. It's not that hard to look up a school code. There are about the same number of zip codes.
The hard thing will be to keep them up to date with tax rate changes. But I would think most of those occur on either July 1 or January 1. So software/website upgrades twice a year.

[Col Hogan]

Supreme Court rules warrant required for cellphone location data


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... tion-data/

[Ibanez]

What is the easiest solution - charge sales tax based on the destination or vendor location? I think there are good arguments either way. For small companies, even with modern accounting software, collecting and remitting 45 different state sales taxes is burdensome. Then again - thee is modern accounting software that can easily handle this. Companies like Amazon are already collecting sales taxes in multiple states so the burden will really rest on those small-medium companies, especially the ones that are earning closer to the $100k.

BDK, I thought you'd love this? It ends a corporate handout and Trump loves it. You love Trump. Does he know you aren't being loyal?

If you include local county and/or city sales taxes, which you have in a # of states, I believe that 45 jumps into the thousands.

I don’t see it as a corporate handout. And I know it maight come as a shock, but I dknt agree with Trump on everything. This is one of those instances.

Odd isnt it. You have people who disagree with Trump on most things, agreeing with him here, and vice versa. And SCOTUS’s 5-4 wasnt a typical 5-4 along the conservative/liberal line..

1) I only said state taxes.
2) Maybe not a benefit but low to no tax requirement is definitely preferential treatment.

[kalm]

I'm not worried about the ability of the "mom and pop" stores to be able to correctly charge the right amount of sales tax (i.e. figure out where the sale will go to and what the sales tax is there). We're not talking about an infinite amount of states, we're talking about 50 of them, and then maybe through in municipalities too. We live in a pretty technological age, it's not terribly difficult to find a program/app that will do the work for you. This was a problem maybe 15-20 years ago, when apps were few and nonexistent. That's not the case today and the SCOTUS was correct in recognizing that compliance is far easier now.

Again with those municipal sales taxes in a lot of states the # of different sales tax jurisdictions is in the thousands.
State Sales Tax Jurisdictions Approach 10,000

https://taxfoundation.org/state-sales-t ... oach-10000

So what makes more sense? Having to deal with 1 to 3 sales tax jurisdictions, or 10,000?

And does that include local B&O taxes that are charged at the point of sale?

[CAA Flagship]

And does that include local B&O taxes that are charged at the point of sale?

How does THAT work?

[kalm]

And does that include local B&O taxes that are charged at the point of sale?

How does THAT work?

I don’t know. We don’t have one in our location but I know surrounding cities do. I assume it’s taken from gross revenue minus exemptions and credits?

[dbackjon]

Btw, show of hands - who here declares the tax from online shopping on their taxes? Hardly anyone maintains all receipts from their online purchases and declares it at the end of the year. This law will shift the burden (rightfully so, IMO) away from the consumer.

Correct - you where ALWAYS supposed to pay taxes on on-line, or out of state purchases. THAT is the law. If you haven't you should have your children taken away for breaking the law.


And Cleets - your loophole technically doesn't exist, since the consumer should be paying the taxes

[dbackjon]

Supreme Court rules warrant required for cellphone location data


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... tion-data/

A good ruling. Thank you liberals!! (And John Roberts)

[CAA Flagship]

How does THAT work?

I don’t know. We don’t have one in our location but I know surrounding cities do. I assume it’s taken from gross revenue minus exemptions and credits?

I guess what I'm asking is - Is that a tax that is typically passed on to the consumer or is it in the cost of the product or service?

[kalm]

I don’t know. We don’t have one in our location but I know surrounding cities do. I assume it’s taken from gross revenue minus exemptions and credits?

I guess what I'm asking is - Is that a tax that is typically passed on to the consumer or is it in the cost of the product or service?

All taxes are passed on to the consumer. Some places publish rates and prices including tax. Others apply it on top of the published price and show it as a line item.

[Ibanez]

Btw, show of hands - who here declares the tax from online shopping on their taxes? Hardly anyone maintains all receipts from their online purchases and declares it at the end of the year. This law will shift the burden (rightfully so, IMO) away from the consumer.

Correct - you where ALWAYS supposed to pay taxes on on-line, or out of state purchases. THAT is the law. If you haven't you should have your children taken away for breaking the law.


And Cleets - your loophole technically doesn't exist, since the consumer should be paying the taxes

I'm not saying you don't pay taxes on it...it's the reporting them. The burden has been on the consumer. It should be on the vendor.

[dbackjon]

Correct - you where ALWAYS supposed to pay taxes on on-line, or out of state purchases. THAT is the law. If you haven't you should have your children taken away for breaking the law.


And Cleets - your loophole technically doesn't exist, since the consumer should be paying the taxes

I'm not saying you don't pay taxes on it...it's the reporting them. The burden has been on the consumer. It should be on the vendor.

Agreed - which is what this ruling says. Just saying that you have ALWAYS been required to do so, but most don't.

When I lived in Tennessee, which had no income tax but a high sales tax, they would go after residents that bought high dollar items (Cars, etc) in another state but failed to file use tax.

[Ivytalk]

Supreme Court rules warrant required for cellphone location data


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... tion-data/

A good ruling. Thank you liberals!! (And John Roberts)

Once again, the guvmint screwed up. The FBI got the cell phone records without a warrant. The decision does NOT protect legitimate searches of cell phone records. The Gorsuch dissent is interesting, because he would have scrapped the two earlier Fourth Amendment cases (Smith and Miller) that are the current precedent for”legitimate expectation of privacy” standards. I think Roberts got this one right, but I’ll never forgive him for his Obamacare disaster.

[kalm]

A good ruling. Thank you liberals!! (And John Roberts)

Once again, the guvmint screwed up. The FBI got the cell phone records without a warrant. The decision does NOT protect legitimate searches of cell phone records. The Gorsuch dissent is interesting, because he would have scrapped the two earlier Fourth Amendment cases (Smith and Miller) that are the current precedent for”legitimate expectation of privacy” standards. I think Roberts got this one right, but I’ll never forgive him for his Obamacare disaster.

Remember our arguments on warrant less wiretapping?

I like this new libertarian side of Ivy.

[Ibanez]

I'm not saying you don't pay taxes on it...it's the reporting them. The burden has been on the consumer. It should be on the vendor.

Agreed - which is what this ruling says. Just saying that you have ALWAYS been required to do so, but most don't.

When I lived in Tennessee, which had no income tax but a high sales tax, they would go after residents that bought high dollar items (Cars, etc) in another state but failed to file use tax.

Yeah- I understand the ruling. It’s a good ruling


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