Primate Fossil Could Be Key Link in Evolution

[Cap'n Cat]

From page three of this thread... I don't have the time to read through the rest of this garbage... I gotta finish my research proposal and hopefully not get the boot from my graduate committee.

You negated the virus concept... but, As a microbiologist, how do you explain bacterial drug resistance? How do you explain parasitic organisms that can infect only certain host but over time can be conditioned for infectivity in other host? You can see adaptivity... or if you think about it, evolution... happening in these organisms in the matter of days or weeks in the lab.

Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's? ~ Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

You're also expected to believe in creation with no question correct? With faith that creationism is airtight? Why not believe in a creation that allows us to evolve instead of being wiped out by a drop in temperature or some penicillin?

Thanks for chiming in JMU.

First off. I am not a microbiologist, and never worked in the field. Was hoping to get my PhD, but life happened and I haven't had the chance to go back.

What bacteria and viruses accomplish in short weeks doesn't amount to any new genetic information, (unless they get it by conjugation or other scary means), just reshuffling of their current DNA to produce a different protein.

It would seem to me that it is more natural selection (component of evolution). I understand that bacteria are incredible research tools because they burn through generations at a highly accelerated rate, but can we really extrapolate an organism that has a much higher point mutation rate and many other inherent DNA changing strategies as being close to the animal model?

A bacteria either changes it's DNA, or it is wiped out as you said, by penicillin or a drop in temp. On the same note, are we to consider the bacterial shock response as evolution as well? How about the shuffling that occurs in the heavy chains of our immunoglobulins? No net gain, but different products in the end.

I am not a creationist, so I don't adhere to it. Even if I did, I couldn't accept it without scrutiny.

I simply just do not accept Evolution without scrutiny, that is all.

Seattle,
Neither do Evolutionary scientists!!! It's constantly being scrutinized - that's the difference between the God crap and science!

[slycat]

As a Zoology major I favor the facts pointing evolution. The biggest current problem is the gaps is fossil history. But I really doubt creatures just magically appeared.

[Wedgebuster]

Many of the "truths" we cling to are based entirely upon where we call home.

[Cap'n Cat]

As a Zoology major I favor the facts pointing evolution. The biggest current problem is the gaps is fossil history. But I really doubt creatures just magically appeared.

Yeah, Sly, but scientists keep investigating that gap. Monumentally different than "God said so", in which there is no empirical process.

[Cap'n Cat]

God, where's native to settle this debate once and for all???

Save us, all-knowing native!!!!

[SeattleGriz]

What holes do you see in evolution theory?

Yes, there are fossil gaps, but those are closing as more and more fossils are found.


Believing in Evolution does not preclude one from believing that God (or any higher power) created the universe to begin with.

ID is creationism dressed up - basicially admitting that evolution is REAL, but that there has to be some guidance from above because one's faith leads them to believe that.

As much as I hate to admit it, I think you are right dback. I think ID needed to distance itself from creationism because it didn't have any scientific backing. At least the ID proponents know they won't get any listening time if they don't present science. ID sites say they are different, but I can't help but think of the old saying, "an enemy of my enemy".

Not to answer your question with a question, but what is your definition of evolution? I ask, because there are three different definitions. This might be why there is so much disconnect on this subject. Some talk old Darwin concepts, and others are talking about newer concepts.

[Wedgebuster]

God, where's native to settle this debate once and for all???

Save us, all-knowing native!!!!

He's here-

Getting his underwear blessed.

[Cap'n Cat]

What holes do you see in evolution theory?

Yes, there are fossil gaps, but those are closing as more and more fossils are found.


Believing in Evolution does not preclude one from believing that God (or any higher power) created the universe to begin with.

ID is creationism dressed up - basicially admitting that evolution is REAL, but that there has to be some guidance from above because one's faith leads them to believe that.

As much as I hate to admit it, I think you are right dback. I think ID needed to distance itself from creationism because it didn't have any scientific backing. At least the ID proponents know they won't get any listening time if they don't present science. ID sites say they are different, but I can't help but think of the old saying, "an enemy of my enemy".

Not to answer your question with a question, but what is your definition of evolution? I ask, because there are three different definitions. This might be why there is so much disconnect on this subject. Some talk old Darwin concepts, and others are talking about newer concepts.

Seattle,
Cap'n Cat names you the sharpest Conk on the Board.

[SeattleGriz]

I simply just do not accept Evolution without scrutiny, that is all.

Seattle,
Neither do Evolutionary scientists!!! It's constantly being scrutinized - that's the difference between the God crap and science!

So why so much backlash when a actual scientist questions the evolutionary data. I always thought those who supported evolution would be excited to have it challenged. If evolution can stand all the scrutiny, it just comes out that much stronger.

I think you can admit many a scientist doesn't like to be second guessed. It could cost him his university position.

[SeattleGriz]

Seattle,
Cap'n Cat names you the sharpest Conk on the Board.

I'm not sure how to take that Capn. On the one hand, I would like to say, "thank you", but on the other, I'm afraid when I do say thank you, I'm going to get sucker punched in the shame gland.

[slycat]

As a Zoology major I favor the facts pointing evolution. The biggest current problem is the gaps is fossil history. But I really doubt creatures just magically appeared.

Yeah, Sly, but scientists keep investigating that gap. Monumentally different than "God said so", in which there is no empirical process.

Yeah its called God of the Gaps Theory. This is where God is used to explain things we do not know. Wants facts are founds they fill some of those gaps.

[dbackjon]

What holes do you see in evolution theory?

Yes, there are fossil gaps, but those are closing as more and more fossils are found.


Believing in Evolution does not preclude one from believing that God (or any higher power) created the universe to begin with.

ID is creationism dressed up - basicially admitting that evolution is REAL, but that there has to be some guidance from above because one's faith leads them to believe that.

As much as I hate to admit it, I think you are right dback. I think ID needed to distance itself from creationism because it didn't have any scientific backing. At least the ID proponents know they won't get any listening time if they don't present science. ID sites say they are different, but I can't help but think of the old saying, "an enemy of my enemy".

Not to answer your question with a question, but what is your definition of evolution? I ask, because there are three different definitions. This might be why there is so much disconnect on this subject. Some talk old Darwin concepts, and others are talking about newer concepts.

Woo hoo!! I am right!!!

Darwin laid the groundwork for modern evolutionary theory, but missed the boat on certain aspects (understandable, given the scientific knowledge of his time).

I like this defintion from Talkorigins:

Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.

[clenz]

As a Zoology major I favor the facts pointing evolution. The biggest current problem is the gaps is fossil history. But I really doubt creatures just magically appeared.

Isn't that the whole theory of the big bang, which lead to evolution? I admit I don't know much about this subject, which is why I have stayed out of the last couple pages. However, to me, the big bang and creationism seem to be based on the same thing...something appeared from nothingness in space. Following the big bang single celled bateria somehow morphed into two cells, then three, etc... until we got a fish or something like that. That fish then had a retard baby but they let it live, long story short we are the retarded offspring of 5 monkeys having butt sex with a fish squirrel


[youtube][/youtube]

[dbackjon]

Seattle,
Neither do Evolutionary scientists!!! It's constantly being scrutinized - that's the difference between the God crap and science!

So why so much backlash when a actual scientist questions the evolutionary data. I always thought those who supported evolution would be excited to have it challenged. If evolution can stand all the scrutiny, it just comes out that much stronger.

I think you can admit many a scientist doesn't like to be second guessed. It could cost him his university position.

That is true (your second part), of most scientists.

As to the first part, some of that depends on the nature of the questioning. To often, the questioning of evolution is not based on a scientific reasoning.

[slycat]

As a Zoology major I favor the facts pointing evolution. The biggest current problem is the gaps is fossil history. But I really doubt creatures just magically appeared.

Isn't that the whole theory of the big bang, which lead to evolution? I admit I don't know much about this subject, which is why I have stayed out of the last couple pages. However, to me, the big bang and creationism seem to be based on the same thing...something appeared from nothingness in space. Following the big bang single celled bateria somehow morphed into two cells, then three, etc... until we got a fish or something like that. That fish then had a retard baby but they let it live, long story short we are the retarded offspring of 5 monkeys having butt sex with a fish squirrel


[youtube][/youtube]

And that is an issue. To me evolution makes perfect sense. But then a new question is created. What created the Big Bang?

[Cap'n Cat]

Isn't that the whole theory of the big bang, which lead to evolution? I admit I don't know much about this subject, which is why I have stayed out of the last couple pages. However, to me, the big bang and creationism seem to be based on the same thing...something appeared from nothingness in space. Following the big bang single celled bateria somehow morphed into two cells, then three, etc... until we got a fish or something like that. That fish then had a retard baby but they let it live, long story short we are the retarded offspring of 5 monkeys having butt sex with a fish squirrel


[youtube][/youtube]

And that is an issue. To me evolution makes perfect sense. But then a new question is created. What created the Big Bang?

But, the constant questions are good! It supports the need for continued empirical analysis. Again, tons better for everyone than "God said so".

[clenz]

And that is an issue. To me evolution makes perfect sense. But then a new question is created. What created the Big Bang?

But, the constant questions are good! It supports the need for continued empirical analysis. Again, tons better for everyone than "God said so".

Is it really? Is going "God said so" better than "There was absolute nothingness, then all of a sudden for some completely unknown reason shit exploded and made billions of planets, stars, blackholes, and every element known to man and then some"

[Cap'n Cat]

But, the constant questions are good! It supports the need for continued empirical analysis. Again, tons better for everyone than "God said so".

Is it really? Is going "God said so" better than "There was absolute nothingness, then all of a sudden for some completely unknown reason shit exploded and made billions of planets, stars, blackholes, and every element known to man and then some"

No one is saying that, Chadley. They're still investigating it. The God people are lazy as fuck, in my eyes.

[clenz]

Is it really? Is going "God said so" better than "There was absolute nothingness, then all of a sudden for some completely unknown reason shit exploded and made billions of planets, stars, blackholes, and every element known to man and then some"

No one is saying that, Chadley. They're still investigating it. The God people are lazy as fuck, in my eyes.

Here is a question then. What, if for some reason, the reasoning behind the big bang can't be found. Who is to say that God, or some other supreme being, didn't create the big bang and everything that came with it?

[dbackjon]

But, the constant questions are good! It supports the need for continued empirical analysis. Again, tons better for everyone than "God said so".

Is it really? Is going "God said so" better than "There was absolute nothingness, then all of a sudden for some completely unknown reason shit exploded and made billions of planets, stars, blackholes, and every element known to man and then some"

Scientists will admit that we don't know what happened before the Big Bang. And there is nothing that would deny the possiblity that God set off the Big Bang.

But what gets me is that you denegrate the idea that there was absolute nothingness, but you are willing to believe that God came from where? Didn't God have to be created at some point?

[clenz]

Is it really? Is going "God said so" better than "There was absolute nothingness, then all of a sudden for some completely unknown reason shit exploded and made billions of planets, stars, blackholes, and every element known to man and then some"

Scientists will admit that we don't know what happened before the Big Bang. And there is nothing that would deny the possiblity that God set off the Big Bang.

But what gets me is that you denegrate the idea that there was absolute nothingness, but you are willing to believe that God came from where? Didn't God have to be created at some point?

Again, there is a flaw in the creationism side of things, but that flaw is no different than "SHIT JUST EXPLODED FROM NOTHINGNESS".


Fact is, we will never know the answer. Scientists can talk all they want about finding an answer but they don't know for sure. They will convince you they do, but they will NEVER know.

[catamount man]

As the peacemaker on this board, so let it be heard that none of us have the final absolute truth on how things came to be and how they will wind up. Thus in this grandiose event we call life, let us step back, take a deep breath, and be peace with each other and those all around us, regardless of race, creed, social status, religious beliefs, education level, and income. Let us love one another. Ahh.........peace brothers.

[slycat]

As the peacemaker on this board, so let it be heard that none of us have the final absolute truth on how things came to be and how they will wind up. Thus in this grandiose event we call life, let us step back, take a deep breath, and be peace with each other and those all around us, regardless of race, creed, social status, religious beliefs, education level, and income. Let us love one another. Ahh.........peace brothers.

good words friend

[Cap'n Cat]

As the peacemaker on this board, so let it be heard that none of us have the final absolute truth on how things came to be and how they will wind up. Thus in this grandiose event we call life, let us step back, take a deep breath, and be peace with each other and those all around us, regardless of race, creed, social status, religious beliefs, education level, and income. Let us love one another. Ahh.........peace brothers.

Cute.



Fact: Man created God in his own image, not the reverse.

[catamount man]

As the peacemaker on this board, so let it be heard that none of us have the final absolute truth on how things came to be and how they will wind up. Thus in this grandiose event we call life, let us step back, take a deep breath, and be peace with each other and those all around us, regardless of race, creed, social status, religious beliefs, education level, and income. Let us love one another. Ahh.........peace brothers.

Cute.



Fact: Man created God in his own image, not the reverse.

That is NOT a fact. Nobody knows if there even is a God so you cannot FACTUALLY state that. You are a seeker too in something my fine plump friend. It is up to each one of us to find it on our own. No matter what IT may be. Peace to you my friend of the feline.