Coronavirus COVID-19

[AZGrizFan]

Have faith, my friend. Even the Russiagate thread gets a bump every now and then...

[UNI88]

Yes….oh the irony….^^^^

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_pressure

Picking SG when discussing the evolutionary pressure vaccines put on the virus is like banking with Capital One.

[SeattleGriz]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_pressure

Picking SG when discussing the evolutionary pressure vaccines put on the virus is like banking with Capital One.

The sad part is you realize "pressure" is a very generic term. You could easily say that the immune system reaction to the virus also puts selection pressure on the virus to mutate. Any outside influence that pushes a virus one way or another is a pressure.

What I have seen during this pandemic is the need to classify everything as either right or wrong, when in real science it's shades. Nobody is willing to accept BOTH vaccine induced immunity AND natural immunity are driving the changes to the virus. Now if you were to ask me which one has a bigger piece, I would say the vaccines. The vaccines are very specific in their pressure.

[UNI88]

Picking SG when discussing the evolutionary pressure vaccines put on the virus is like banking with Capital One.

The sad part is you realize "pressure" is a very generic term. You could easily say that the immune system reaction to the virus also puts selection pressure on the virus to mutate. Any outside influence that pushes a virus one way or another is a pressure.

What I have seen during this pandemic is the need to classify everything as either right or wrong, when in real science it's shades. Nobody is willing to accept BOTH vaccine induced immunity AND natural immunity are driving the changes to the virus. Now if you were to ask me which one has a bigger piece, I would say the vaccines. The vaccines are very specific.

Makes sense to me. And you've been right about too many things on this thread for me to pick against you.

[SeattleGriz]

How long until CDC's Walensky Is sacrificed? Her signing on to the Jon Snow document is especially dooming.

[SDHornet]

Ok I looked at some Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) web pages to try to get a more precise understanding of what is going on.

First let me say that there is what appears to be a discrepancy between what I see on the page at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... vents.html and the graph. This is on the linked page:



The graph indicates 21,002. I can't tell when the end point for the graph is, but even if it was on January 4 I don't think there is any way they would have 10,688 reports of death over more than a year through December 20 then have another 10,314 reported during the 15 days December 21 through January 4. It'd be interesting to find out what is going on with that.

I found a very plausible potential explanation for why one would expect to see more deaths following COVID-19 vaccinations reported. If you look at the page at https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html, you will see a reference to health care providers being required by law to report Any adverse event listed in the VAERS Table of Reportable Events Following Vaccination that occurs within the specified time period after vaccinations. There is a link to the table. The table addresses a bunch of vaccines but does not include COVID-19 vaccines.

If you go to the table, which is at https://vaers.hhs.gov/docs/VAERS_Table_ ... nation.pdf, you will see that providers are only required to report deaths associated with other vaccines if they occur in association with specific conditions For example: A death following the Measles, Mumps, and Rubella vaccine must be reported if it is associated with anaphylaxis or anaphylactic shock, encephalopathy or encephalitis, shoulder injury related to vaccine administration, or vasovagal syncope.

If you scroll down the https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html page you will find the circumstances under which deaths after COVID-19 vaccinated have to be reported. And it's a much broader wet of circumstances. Providers must report deaths after COVID-19 vaccination, period. They must report them whether the person reporting thinks the vaccine caused the death or not and there is no condition about the deaths being associated with specific conditions as there are for the other vaccines.

Add that to the fact that, though an anti vax movement has been around for a long time, the political opposition to the COVID-19 vaccines is unique and ANYBODY can report into the VAERS.

Again: The raw VAERS data do not show that the COVID-19 vaccines are dangerous. People who claim that they do are either ignorant with respect to what the VAERS system is an how it works or they are intentionally misleading others.

Given its from SDHornet its likely both.

Data is data homie. You know, science.

[kalm]

Picking SG when discussing the evolutionary pressure vaccines put on the virus is like banking with Capital One.

The sad part is you realize "pressure" is a very generic term. You could easily say that the immune system reaction to the virus also puts selection pressure on the virus to mutate. Any outside influence that pushes a virus one way or another is a pressure.

What I have seen during this pandemic is the need to classify everything as either right or wrong, when in real science it's shades. Nobody is willing to accept BOTH vaccine induced immunity AND natural immunity are driving the changes to the virus. Now if you were to ask me which one has a bigger piece, I would say the vaccines. The vaccines are very specific in their pressure.

Why are you using pressure again?

[SDHornet]

What that does is bolster the argument that conservatives are full of it when they dismiss Politifact as biased. The over arching problem is that fact checking, overall, does not work out well on balance for conservatives. So conservatives attach fact checkers in an effort to discredit them so they can keep making false statements and having people believe them.

Again: I AM a conservative philosophically. But what's happened in recent years with the conservative movement and all the bullshit/dishonesty (or maybe some of it is ignorance) is just awful.

[kalm]

Interesting study here…

Virus might die quicker than assumed and it confirms the dry air influence. Might explain less spread through air travel.

“ Coronavirus loses 90% of its ability to infect us within 20 minutes of becoming airborne – with most of the loss occurring within the first five minutes, the world’s first simulations of how the virus survives in exhaled air suggest.

The findings re-emphasise the importance of short-range Covid transmission, with physical distancing and mask-wearing likely to be the most effective means of preventing infection. Ventilation, though still worthwhile, is likely to have a lesser impact.

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“People have been focused on poorly ventilated spaces and thinking about airborne transmission over metres or across a room. I’m not saying that doesn’t happen, but I think still the greatest risk of exposure is when you’re close to someone,” said Prof Jonathan Reid, director of the University of Bristol’s Aerosol Research Centre and the study’s lead author.

“When you move further away, not only is the aerosol diluted down, there’s also less infectious virus because the virus has lost infectivity [as a result of time].”

Until now, our assumptions about how long the virus survives in tiny airborne droplets have been based on studies that involved spraying virus into sealed vessels called Goldberg drums, which rotate to keep the droplets airborne. Using this method, US researchers found that infectious virus could still be detected after three hours. Yet such experiments do not accurately replicate what happens when we cough or breathe.

Instead, researchers from the University of Bristol developed apparatus that allowed them to generate any number of tiny, virus-containing particles and gently levitate them between two electric rings for anywhere between five seconds to 20 minutes, while tightly controlling the temperature, humidity and UV light intensity of their surroundings. “This is the first time anyone has been able to actually simulate what happens to the aerosol during the exhalation process,” Reid said.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... 4IkwIqePrU

[SDHornet]

The real reason they tried to cover up the "lab leak" theory is they knew the receipts would point back to them.

[SDHornet]

I see the crumbling Covid narrative has finally killed this thread off.

Naw naw, we ain't letting all the morons that perpetuated this bullshit off the hook. In fact, all this recent anger is really those same idiots just venting
about realizing that they got duped. The crumbling narrative in real time is absolutely epic...and vindicating for those of us on the right side of history. Hell, even the MSM is asking questions that Alex Berenson was asking over a year and a half ago...questions that got him banned on SM.

[SDHornet]

Moderna CEO pushing for a 4th shot.
Of course he is $$$$$$$$$…

"3 doses + booster offer very limited protection"

[kalm]

I see the crumbling Covid narrative has finally killed this thread off.

Naw naw, we ain't letting all the morons that perpetuated this bullshit off the hook. In fact, all this recent anger is really those same idiots just venting
about realizing that they got duped. The crumbling narrative in real time is absolutely epic...and vindicating for those of us on the right side of history. Hell, even the MSM is asking questions that Alex Berenson was asking over a year and a half ago...questions that got him banned on SM.

Or that increased testing shows greater spread or that some variants are more transmissible.

See? 800,000 people didn’t really die.

[Gil Dobie]

Picking SG when discussing the evolutionary pressure vaccines put on the virus is like banking with Capital One.

The sad part is you realize "pressure" is a very generic term. You could easily say that the immune system reaction to the virus also puts selection pressure on the virus to mutate. Any outside influence that pushes a virus one way or another is a pressure.

What I have seen during this pandemic is the need to classify everything as either right or wrong, when in real science it's shades. Nobody is willing to accept BOTH vaccine induced immunity AND natural immunity are driving the changes to the virus. Now if you were to ask me which one has a bigger piece, I would say the vaccines. The vaccines are very specific in their pressure.

You make it sound like the virus changes instantly when it comes in contact with the vaccine. You have the science right, but you have an anti-vax tilt to it. Mutations come from the actual virus not reproducing as an exact replica. If the replica is more adaptive to it's environment, then the replica grows in numbers while the original can die out, this can be due the vaccine or natural immunity, creating an environment that is not friendly to the original virus, but the replica can survive in. It still comes to numbers. With more cases of covid, there is more of a chance for mutation, with or without a vaccine present. With the vaccine, there is more of a chance for a vaccine resistant mutation. Without the vaccine, there is more of a chance for natural resistance mutation. With both, it all depends on numbers. Pressure is just a descriptor used by anti-vaxxers as a scare tactic.

[SDHornet]

Naw naw, we ain't letting all the morons that perpetuated this bullshit off the hook. In fact, all this recent anger is really those same idiots just venting
about realizing that they got duped. The crumbling narrative in real time is absolutely epic...and vindicating for those of us on the right side of history. Hell, even the MSM is asking questions that Alex Berenson was asking over a year and a half ago...questions that got him banned on SM.

Or that increased testing shows greater spread or that some variants are more transmissible.

See? 800,000 people didn’t really die.

Naw. This is all about trying to cover the fact that there are more deaths from the China Virus under Biden* with a "vaccine" then there were under Orange Man. And because of that, and only that, are they now wanting to get into the number of those death "from" vs "with". Not surprised you missed that at all.

[SeattleGriz]

The sad part is you realize "pressure" is a very generic term. You could easily say that the immune system reaction to the virus also puts selection pressure on the virus to mutate. Any outside influence that pushes a virus one way or another is a pressure.

What I have seen during this pandemic is the need to classify everything as either right or wrong, when in real science it's shades. Nobody is willing to accept BOTH vaccine induced immunity AND natural immunity are driving the changes to the virus. Now if you were to ask me which one has a bigger piece, I would say the vaccines. The vaccines are very specific in their pressure.

You make it sound like the virus changes instantly when it comes in contact with the vaccine. You have the science right, but you have an anti-vax tilt to it. Mutations come from the actual virus not reproducing as an exact replica. If the replica is more adaptive to it's environment, then the replica grows in numbers while the original can die out, this can be due the vaccine or natural immunity, creating an environment that is not friendly to the original virus, but the replica can survive in. It still comes to numbers. With more cases of covid, there is more of a chance for mutation, with or without a vaccine present. With the vaccine, there is more of a chance for a vaccine resistant mutation. Without the vaccine, there is more of a chance for natural resistance mutation. With both, it all depends on numbers. Pressure is just a descriptor used by anti-vaxxers as a scare tactic.

I was simply using pressure as it's proper term.

[SeattleGriz]

The sad part is you realize "pressure" is a very generic term. You could easily say that the immune system reaction to the virus also puts selection pressure on the virus to mutate. Any outside influence that pushes a virus one way or another is a pressure.

What I have seen during this pandemic is the need to classify everything as either right or wrong, when in real science it's shades. Nobody is willing to accept BOTH vaccine induced immunity AND natural immunity are driving the changes to the virus. Now if you were to ask me which one has a bigger piece, I would say the vaccines. The vaccines are very specific in their pressure.

Why are you using pressure again?

I'm type A plus cooped up. Dangerous combo.

[houndawg]

Given its from SDHornet its likely both.

Data is data homie. You know, science.

Statistics are like bikinis homie...

[kalm]

Why are you using pressure again?

I'm type A plus cooped up. Dangerous combo.

I’m type A too…but in recovery…

[GannonFan]

Naw naw, we ain't letting all the morons that perpetuated this bullshit off the hook. In fact, all this recent anger is really those same idiots just venting
about realizing that they got duped. The crumbling narrative in real time is absolutely epic...and vindicating for those of us on the right side of history. Hell, even the MSM is asking questions that Alex Berenson was asking over a year and a half ago...questions that got him banned on SM.

Or that increased testing shows greater spread or that some variants are more transmissible.

See? 800,000 people didn’t really die.

Well, I think the 800,000 number is still a bit questionable. Do we still have that number of normal deaths in any given year (from any causes) versus the total deaths we had in 2020 or 2021? Not a perfect analysis, certainly, as the difference won't be entirely directly due to COVID, but would still be informative.

[GannonFan]

Probably hitting a paywall, but WSJ had an opinion piece today from I think a husband and wife pair of folks (one's a doctor, not sure what the other one is) talking about the difference between antigenic drift and antigenic shift. They're saying (and I think SeattleGriz has been saying this) that in our drive to avoid more cases of infection, we could be depriving our bodies of the chance to adapt to new variants (drift) and that the more and more that come into being brings us closer to a shift where we won't be able to adapt very easily. We might be creating a super variant, if you will. Good read, but again, uncertain of the source.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/speeding-i ... 1641847062

[JohnStOnge]

Naw. This is all about trying to cover the fact that there are more deaths from the China Virus under Biden* with a "vaccine" then there were under Orange Man. And because of that, and only that, are they now wanting to get into the number of those death "from" vs "with". Not surprised you missed that at all.

They were talking about hospitalizations, not deaths. The National Vital Statistics death counts are counted according to the instructions at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf. COVID-19 has to be a factor in the death in order for the death to be counted as a COVID-19 death.

The day by day death counts we see haven't been through National Vital Statistics death certificate processing as the ones you can see at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm have been. But they are generally consistent with them. Right now the last week for which death certificate data are reported by Vital Statistics is the week ending January 8 and the count of deaths through then is 832,775. The total through January 8 reported by Wordometers is 859,858. From what I've seen in the past, though, the Vital Statistics count for deaths to this point will increase some over time as more data come in. I'm type that the count for the week of January 2 - 8 right now is 1,811. I expect that if I remember to check that week again a month or so from now the number for that most recent week will be substantially larger.

Second: Though it won't be for much longer, the statement that there are more deaths under Biden than there were under Trump continues to be false. According to Worldometer, as of January 20, 2021, the day before Biden took office, there had been 435,090 COVID-19 deaths in the United States. As I type the count is 863,896. 863,896 - 435,090 = 428,806. So the statement continues to be false.

As I said, it will become true soon. Almost certainly within a week. But people have been falsely making that statement for quite a while now.

[JohnStOnge]

Probably hitting a paywall, but WSJ had an opinion piece today from I think a husband and wife pair of folks (one's a doctor, not sure what the other one is) talking about the difference between antigenic drift and antigenic shift. They're saying (and I think SeattleGriz has been saying this) that in our drive to avoid more cases of infection, we could be depriving our bodies of the chance to adapt to new variants (drift) and that the more and more that come into being brings us closer to a shift where we won't be able to adapt very easily. We might be creating a super variant, if you will. Good read, but again, uncertain of the source.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/speeding-i ... 1641847062

If what they are saying in terms of what the strategy should be is similar to that associated with the hypothesis presented through the Great Barrington Declaration in late 2020 (https://gbdeclaration.org), the Infectious Diseases Society of America and the American Public Health Association disagree with them. See https://www.idsociety.org/news--publica ... -pandemic/ and https://www.apha.org/news-and-media/new ... ovid2-plan.

I think it is pretty obvious that the overwhelming consensus among public health experts around the world is that it is better to impede the spread of infection and vaccinate as much as possible.

[JohnStOnge]

One thing that struck me while Rand Paul was again making an ass of himself today was when he asked Fauci if he thought what's happened so far has been a success. The reason we haven't had better success is that we've had people who are constantly trying to impede the effort and under cut efforts of the public health officials. We've always had a substantial proportion of the population refusing to do the things public health officials are trying to get them to do. We would be in a totally different and much better situation right now if everybody had always followed the recommendations. Among other things, we'd be in a much better place and would have had far fewer COVID-19 deaths in the United States if 90 or 95% of the population wore masks as recommended, avoided crowds as recommended, social distanced as recommended, and got vaccinated as recommended.

Then you have people who have been in the forefront of efforts to undercut public health efforts blaming the mitigation strategies THEY have significantly impeded for the fact that we still have a big problem.

[SDHornet]

Naw. This is all about trying to cover the fact that there are more deaths from the China Virus under Biden* with a "vaccine" then there were under Orange Man. And because of that, and only that, are they now wanting to get into the number of those death "from" vs "with". Not surprised you missed that at all.

They were talking about hospitalizations, not deaths. The National Vital Statistics death counts are counted according to the instructions at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf. COVID-19 has to be a factor in the death in order for the death to be counted as a COVID-19 death.

The day by day death counts we see haven't been through National Vital Statistics death certificate processing as the ones you can see at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm have been. But they are generally consistent with them. Right now the last week for which death certificate data are reported by Vital Statistics is the week ending January 8 and the count of deaths through then is 832,775. The total through January 8 reported by Wordometers is 859,858. From what I've seen in the past, though, the Vital Statistics count for deaths to this point will increase some over time as more data come in. I'm type that the count for the week of January 2 - 8 right now is 1,811. I expect that if I remember to check that week again a month or so from now the number for that most recent week will be substantially larger.

Second: Though it won't be for much longer, the statement that there are more deaths under Biden than there were under Trump continues to be false. According to Worldometer, as of January 20, 2021, the day before Biden took office, there had been 435,090 COVID-19 deaths in the United States. As I type the count is 863,896. 863,896 - 435,090 = 428,806. So the statement continues to be false.

As I said, it will become true soon. Almost certainly within a week. But people have been falsely making that statement for quite a while now.

Didn't read this, but if it doesn't include the recent number of 78% of china virus deaths having at least 4 comorbitities, then your numbers are just as useful as one of your polls on the Brown vote goin 80% blue.