A Christian Marxist?

[ASUMountaineer]

I don't like Ibanez' persona...can we get gay Mark back? No homo.

JESUS H. CHRIST

tell you what. make it a poll, let the people vote.




The "H" stands for Hal.

[kalm]

I don't think so. I think it's silly to project modern political beliefs on Jesus... but, I certainly think a Marxist could find a lot to agree with in the Bible.

Acts 2:44-45:
All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 4:32-35:
All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need

Exodus 16:16-18:
This is what the Lord has commanded: Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of persons who each of you has in his tent. And the people of Israel did so; they gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat

More proof that the Bible can justify anything you want to do to yourself or other people depending on how you read it.

So is the bible a living document or should passages like the ones skj quoted above be taken literally by true believers?

If it's the latter, then quite a few greedy and violent bastards have some 'splaynin' to do. And probably most of the religious right "capitalists" in the world are at odds with their own messiah. I'm not judging as that's not my faith, but I would be praying a whole bunch if I were them.

[BigSkyBears]

More proof that the Bible can justify anything you want to do to yourself or other people depending on how you read it.

So is the bible a living document or should passages like the ones skj quoted above be taken literally by true believers?

If it's the latter, then quite a few greedy and violent bastards have some 'splaynin' to do. And probably most of the religious right "capitalists" in the world are at odds with their own messiah. I'm not judging as that's not my faith, but I would be praying a whole bunch if I were them.

You bring up a good point. To me the Bible isn't so much a guide. I think Christians who use it as a guide will just trip all over themselves. I study the Bible and re think concepts in it all the time. I have a trampoline type theology about it, meaning I'm flexible with concepts, ideas and beliefs.

[kalm]

So is the bible a living document or should passages like the ones skj quoted above be taken literally by true believers?

If it's the latter, then quite a few greedy and violent bastards have some 'splaynin' to do. And probably most of the religious right "capitalists" in the world are at odds with their own messiah. I'm not judging as that's not my faith, but I would be praying a whole bunch if I were them.

You bring up a good point. To me the Bible isn't so much a guide. I think Christians who use it as a guide will just trip all over themselves. I study the Bible and re think concepts in it all the time. I have a trampoline type theology about it, meaning I'm flexible with concepts, ideas and beliefs.

Totally respectable.

[SuperHornet]

Before you go quoting passages out of context, you better remember that Paul said many things about hard work, which is incompatible with Communism.

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.
Colossians 3:23-24 (NIV)

Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you.
I Thessalonians 3:10 (NIV)

And, the clincher:

For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
II Thessalonians 5:12 (NIV)

[Skjellyfetti]

So the Bible contradicts itself?!??!?!??!?!?!

OMG!!!!

MY WHOLE WORLDVIEW IS SHATTERED!!

[SuperHornet]

No, the Bible does NOT contradict itself. Most so-called "contradicitions" are either scribal errors or matters of interpretation. These were not part of the original documents. FYI, even with the "errors" in the modern text, analysts have proven that the Bible is the most accurately transmitted ancient document known to man. Even Homer can't claim that.

[Skjellyfetti]

Or Paul and Luke just disagreed?

Maybe they didn't realize they were co-writing a book together

[SuperHornet]

Actually, that's a very good point. Contrary to popular belief, Luke was NOT one of the disciples; he was merely writing from the perspective of one of them. He was also associated with Paul during his missionary journeys. That's well documented in Acts. But quite often, what is taken as contradicition in the Bible is merely a difference in point of view. It's like you're going to a football game with your buddies. Each of you saw what happened in a different way. Angle, missing stuff due to trips to the concession or to the head, distraction by the cheerleaders, etc., can affect how each of you saw it. The audience to which one is writing affects that, too. Peter was primarily witnessing to the Jews, while Paul was aiming at the Gentiles. One requires a different tack to approach each audience. As a doctor, Luke was generally more precise than the other Gospel writers.

There are other factors involved as well, but that's just a taste of what gets tossed in Christians' faces by those who would like to undermine them. And it's not always malicious. Many times it's just a well-intentioned observation based on what one has heard.

[Skjellyfetti]

I know. I don't really think the Bible contradicts itself. I was only making a joke.

The Bible is only contradictory if you look at it as one massive text and take the whole book literally. I think of it as a bunch of texts written by a bunch of people at different times with different viewpoints and different experiences.

I also don't think of it literally and don't believe it to be divinely inspired... so our agreement will probably diverge there... but, I agree with what you said in your last post.

[youngterrier]

No, the Bible does NOT contradict itself. Most so-called "contradicitions" are either scribal errors or matters of interpretation. These were not part of the original documents. FYI, even with the "errors" in the modern text, analysts have proven that the Bible is the most accurately transmitted ancient document known to man. Even Homer can't claim that.

the thing with the contradictory issue is that, from a certain perspective, it can be. We also have to look at the context in which the Bible was written, which differs from passage to passage. The reason we have so many different denominations is because of these differences. If I'm a Baptist I follow the Baptist interpretation, If I'm a Methodist I use the Methodist interpretation and so on. If I mix up my interpretations then it can be contradictory. For instance, in one of the Corinthians it says something a long the lines of "it is a sin for a woman to speak at Church," and personally I think that is the point Paul is trying to get by, not just to the church of Corinth but Universally because the verse is broad. With that being said there is also a verse (Galatians 3:28) that says "For there is no longer Gentile nor Jew, Neither slave nor Free, neither Man nor Woman for they are all one in Christ Jesus" which basically says it doesn't matter who you are we are all equal in the eyes of God (I have to be more of a fan of this one because my Mom is a preacher). If we are all equal in the eyes of God it shouldn't matter if a Woman speaks at Church, or leads worship, etc. You have to ask yourself which interpretation is "right" and ultimately there is a point on both sides and if the Bible is "perfect" we must concede that we are not perfect enough to interpret it 100% ...the problem is that the Women are still there (and want to preach) and certain people have to pick sides. Is either side "wrong?" God only knows

[BigSkyBears]

No, the Bible does NOT contradict itself. Most so-called "contradicitions" are either scribal errors or matters of interpretation. These were not part of the original documents. FYI, even with the "errors" in the modern text, analysts have proven that the Bible is the most accurately transmitted ancient document known to man. Even Homer can't claim that.

No, but there are plenty of paradoxes in scripture. That makes it even more interesting to study!

[kalm]

No, the Bible does NOT contradict itself. Most so-called "contradicitions" are either scribal errors or matters of interpretation. These were not part of the original documents. FYI, even with the "errors" in the modern text, analysts have proven that the Bible is the most accurately transmitted ancient document known to man. Even Homer can't claim that.

Are you including the stuff that was lost or intentionally omitted like the gnostic gospels? Didn't the church pick and chose the story to make it more believable to the heathens being conquered at the time?

And which analysts? There's a copy of the epic of Gilgamesh that was written on 12 clay tablets in the library collection of the 7th century BCE Assyrian king Ashurbanipal that is still around today.

[BigSkyBears]

So the Bible contradicts itself?!??!?!??!?!?!

OMG!!!!

MY WHOLE WORLDVIEW IS SHATTERED!!

I wouldn't say it contradicts itself, rather there are paradoxes.

[SuperHornet]

Sure, there are paradoxes. While I'm not sure exactly what you're speaking to, a commonly claimed one is the day the sun stood still. We don't know exactly what happened that day because we weren't there, but that's how it appeared to the one assigned to record it. One of the basic fundamental beliefs (not shared by all, BTW) of the Bible is that it was a joint project between the Holy Spirit and the human authors. Therefore, while the concepts come from God, a lot of the verbiage is in terms the human authors were familiar with. That's particularly true when they were reporting events.

The concept of "accuracy" is a fluid thing. Even today, we speak of sunrise and sunset even though we know it does no such thing; that's merely how it appears from our perspective as the Earth rotates around the sun. In addition, one would hardly expect one to use space-shot accuracy when one is describing how long it took him to drive from Missoula to Bozo. Expecting people who wrote two to three thousand years ago to adhere to space-shot accuracy when we don't even do that ourselves and then crying about "a book full of errors" is disingenuous. That's not even what the inerrancy doctrine is about.

That probably explains most of what we would see as paradox. It's mostly a matter of perspective. Of course, as finite beings, one SHOULD leave room for the supernatural. God can do whatever He wants so long as it's consistent with his character.

OK. [/rant] As I said before, I realize that most who have objections are not really the malicious sort. They just haven't heard the whole story and are going on what seems logical. There are really very few of the malicious sort out there. They make a lot of noise, to be sure. But I really don't think any of those are on this board.

I have a couple of classes this term that have been talking about this. So thank you for keeping me on my toes. You're making me think, which is a good thing.

[Ibanez]

So the Bible contradicts itself?!??!?!??!?!?!

OMG!!!!

MY WHOLE WORLDVIEW IS SHATTERED!!

I wouldn't say it contradicts itself, rather there are paradoxes.

Doesn't it suggest incest? With the whole, 1 man, 1 woman had 3 sons...
Maybe that's why we're fucked up.

[BigSkyBears]

I wouldn't say it contradicts itself, rather there are paradoxes.

Doesn't it suggest incest? With the whole, 1 man, 1 woman had 3 sons...
Maybe that's why we're **** up.

I don't think it suggests it. However, if you want it, go ahead!

[CID1990]

So the Bible contradicts itself?!??!?!??!?!?!

OMG!!!!

MY WHOLE WORLDVIEW IS SHATTERED!!

Not much of a reach since it was already cracked.

[CID1990]

I'm pretty much a Corinthians kind of guy, myself. At least I would be if I was religious.