Conference membership to be required for FBS moveup...

[dbackjon]

I'll muck this up a bit more, but it does come from some pretty solid inside info.

B10 adds 3: Mizzou & Pitt for sure. Syracuse is very possible. Rutgers & ND are out.
P10 adds 3: Utah, Colorado & San Diego State (I know but he swears by it). New P10 Network seems likley.
B12 adds BYU

I offer this as solid info from a solid source. Since this is a FCS board if you don't buy it please don't debate it. But this would really stir up the MWC and really change the west.

I'm not hating on you but your source can't know because the B10 doesn't know yet and P10 hasn't even started the process until their new commish comes in.

How do YOU know that the Big 10 hasn't decided yet?

And the Pac10 may not have started the process publically, but you can be sure that it has privately.

But, San Diego State/13 members make ZERO sense. The others do.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Examples

expansion on the low end

B10(12) adds Rutgers
BE (8/16) adds Memphis
CUSA (12) adds N.Texas, M.Tenn St.
P10(12) adds Utah, Colorado
B12 (12) adds Air Force
MWC (9) adds Boise St., Houston
WAC (9) adds UTSA
WCC (10) adds Seattle, Denver
Sun Belt (12) adds Georgia St., Charlotte, Texas St.

Bigger expansion

B10(14) Rutgers, Syracuse, Notre Dame
BE(9/16) Memphis, UCF, E.Carolina
P10(12) Utah, Colorado
B12 (12) Air Force
MWC (10) Boise St., Houston
CUSA (12) M.Tenn.St., N.Texas, Charlotte, FAU
WAC (10) Texas St., UTSA
MAC (14) W.Kentucky, Temple
WCC (10) Seattle, Denver
Sun Belt (12) Jacksonville St., Georgia St., Sam Houston St., Lamar, Georgia So.

Oh and if I posted a BE split forming 12 teams for fb and 10 for the basketball side along with the MWC going to 12. there would be more.

Notre Dame is going to be D1 Independent Forever. They make so much $$$ with the TV contract with NBC, They would never, ever want to give that up and share with another 9 or 11 teams in a conference.

The ND AD said last week that he has reconsidered his stance on being Indy. That if there are major changes, like maybe the B10 going to 14 they want and need to be a part of it or get left behind. The link to his quotes are on collegesportsinfo.com

[Fresno St. Alum]

I'm not hating on you but your source can't know because the B10 doesn't know yet and P10 hasn't even started the process until their new commish comes in.

How do YOU know that the Big 10 hasn't decided yet?

And the Pac10 may not have started the process publically, but you can be sure that it has privately.

But, San Diego State/13 members make ZERO sense. The others do.

dback, you don't have to believe me. The B10 came out and said they have it narrowed to 4-5 schools. They could be lying, sure. If you think anyone that says SDSU is going to the P10 isn't full of shit that's fine. Point is that line proves that person doesn't know shit.

[Keeper]

just another method of the new economics.

If you want to join our club, you can BUY yourself a seat

No independents welcome. Besides, they'll just gang together into yet another league
trying to horn in on "our" $$$$.

[txstatebobcat]

Just putting this expansion scenario so that Fresno State alum can break it apart.

MWC conference expands and takes Boise St. WAC expands to 12 by adding TxSt, UTSA, sweet talks UNT and ULL into joining WAC with this arrangement.

East
TxSt
UTSA
UNT
ULL
LaTech
NMSU

West
Hawaii
Fresno St
Nevada
Utah State
Idaho
San Jose St

[catdaddy2402]

I don't see any scenario where either of the Sun Belt's UL schools join the WAC. Even back in it's heyday of the 80's the WAC was a forgotten conference because so many of their games were still going on when the press deadlines passed. They'd be better served staying in the Sun Belt than joining the WAC, especially a WAC that has lost it's luster if Boise State and/or Fresno State move on.

For much the same reason I highly doubt you'll see UNT or Arkansas State move either.

I know the popular thing is for FCS fans to bash the Sun Belt, but the fact is they are getting better each year. Considering the fact that they already cover more states than the MAC (FL, AL, TN, KY, AR, TX, LA) than the MAC (OH, MI, IL, IN, NY, PA) and are in the area of the country where the population is growing rather than shrinking the Sun Belt had a good chance to eventually grow into a decent non-autobid league. Fact is, at this point the Sun Belt can afford to be picky when it comes to extending invites because the addition of WKU makes 9 members, ensuring that Sun Belt schools play a 8 game conference slate (which should mean additional bowl eligible teams) and gives them a little wiggle room if they were to lose a member to another conference. The addition of USA will give them that much more security.

That would put the WAC in a tight spot where they would have to entertain extending invites to move-ups should they find themselves losing members to the MWC or elsewhere. They would pretty much not have a choice, as there wouldn't be anybody else available. Therefore I could see both UTSA and Tx State being extended invitations in the scenario.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Txstbob, your WAC would work if the BE split and took 3 or 4 from CUSA and CUSA took 3 or 4 from SBelt. Along with the MWC raiding the WAC forcing them to merge other than that I don't see it. Also I think N.Texas would be one of the 1st to go to CUSA.

catdad, I see your points but in the pecking order Sbelt is still at the bottom for now. Example WKU being looked at as a full member of the MAC, if asked they'd probably join. Also I think you're right about the La & Ark St. turning the WAC down, maybe a small chance if only Boise St. left, leaving good enough schools. But I think the WAC would want UTSA then Texas St. or any western FCS willing to move up first. I mean the WAC champs just beat the MWC champs in a BCS bowl and both have made it to 3 bcs games winning 2. WAC (1-0) vs MWC in those. Still every WAC member would rather be in the MWC. It's just a pecking order thing. Maybe after a long time or drastic conf. raids, things will change but right now the non bcs goes like this 1. MWC, 2. CUSA, 3.WAC, 4. MAC, 5. Sun Belt

[89Hen]

Examples

expansion on the low end

Bigger expansion

I think you were posting this just as a 'what could be' type of thing, but does anyone really think it's in any of the FBS conferences, especially the BCS, to expand and dillute their money?

[Fresno St. Alum]

Examples

expansion on the low end

Bigger expansion

I think you were posting this just as a 'what could be' type of thing, but does anyone really think it's in any of the FBS conferences, especially the BCS, to expand and dillute their money?

It's almost certain that the B10 will expand to 12, small chance of it going to 14. The big 10 will make more money by adding members in new markets, also PAC 10 would probably add more money by adding Utah & Colorado. Any other combo could be a push or cut into it.

PAC 10 going to 12 50/50

If the MWC adds Boise St., been talking with them over a year, you can bet the WAC will try and match by going to 10. MWC would go to 12 if they could get an auto BCS berth

Big East split? who knows. Just 1 domino can start the ball rolling. Rutgers to the B10, Memphis to BE, N.Texas to CUSA, Georgia St., UTSA, Texas St., or Jacksonville St. to Sun Belt.

[catdaddy2402]

catdad, I see your points but in the pecking order Sbelt is still at the bottom for now. Example WKU being looked at as a full member of the MAC, if asked they'd probably join. Also I think you're right about the La & Ark St. turning the WAC down, maybe a small chance if only Boise St. left, leaving good enough schools. But I think the WAC would want UTSA then Texas St. or any western FCS willing to move up first. I mean the WAC champs just beat the MWC champs in a BCS bowl and both have made it to 3 bcs games winning 2. WAC (1-0) vs MWC in those. Still every WAC member would rather be in the MWC. It's just a pecking order thing. Maybe after a long time or drastic conf. raids, things will change but right now the non bcs goes like this 1. MWC, 2. CUSA, 3.WAC, 4. MAC, 5. Sun Belt

The Sun Belt is at the bottom of the pecking order, but the difference between them and the MAC and/or WAC is getting smaller every year. It could be argued that in 2005 the WAC was in a more powerful on the field position than a depleted CUSA but CUSA was still able to pull four teams from the WAC, including the longest tenured school in the conference at that time UTEP.

This same WAC was unable to convince North Texas, Arkansas St, and La-Lafayette to leave a much weaker Sun Belt to shore up the hole left in their eastern flank and giving La Tech somewhat of a geographical bridge to the rest of the conference. Why you ask? The Sun Belt schools saw what joining the western based WAC did to the profile of TCU and SMU when the SWC folded. Sure, at the time the WAC was on more stable ground, especially since the Sun Belt was forced to accelerate the move up process of both FAU and FIU to survive....but the Sun Belt schools were more than willing to give up some security for the exposure that playing in a league based in the Eastern and Central time zone was going to give them, and that gamble thus far has paid off. A WAC without Boise and/or Fresno isn't anywhere near as desirable, nor stable as the WAC they already turned down back in 2005.

[dbackjon]

Good discussion here, and good points, catdaddy. Welcome to the board!!

[Fresno St. Alum]

catdad, I see your points but in the pecking order Sbelt is still at the bottom for now. Example WKU being looked at as a full member of the MAC, if asked they'd probably join. Also I think you're right about the La & Ark St. turning the WAC down, maybe a small chance if only Boise St. left, leaving good enough schools. But I think the WAC would want UTSA then Texas St. or any western FCS willing to move up first. I mean the WAC champs just beat the MWC champs in a BCS bowl and both have made it to 3 bcs games winning 2. WAC (1-0) vs MWC in those. Still every WAC member would rather be in the MWC. It's just a pecking order thing. Maybe after a long time or drastic conf. raids, things will change but right now the non bcs goes like this 1. MWC, 2. CUSA, 3.WAC, 4. MAC, 5. Sun Belt

The Sun Belt is at the bottom of the pecking order, but the difference between them and the MAC and/or WAC is getting smaller every year. It could be argued that in 2005 the WAC was in a more powerful on the field position than a depleted CUSA but CUSA was still able to pull four teams from the WAC, including the longest tenured school in the conference at that time UTEP.

This same WAC was unable to convince North Texas, Arkansas St, and La-Lafayette to leave a much weaker Sun Belt to shore up the hole left in their eastern flank and giving La Tech somewhat of a geographical bridge to the rest of the conference. Why you ask? The Sun Belt schools saw what joining the western based WAC did to the profile of TCU and SMU when the SWC folded. Sure, at the time the WAC was on more stable ground, especially since the Sun Belt was forced to accelerate the move up process of both FAU and FIU to survive....but the Sun Belt schools were more than willing to give up some security for the exposure that playing in a league based in the Eastern and Central time zone was going to give them, and that gamble thus far has paid off. A WAC without Boise and/or Fresno isn't anywhere near as desirable, nor stable as the WAC they already turned down back in 2005.

I put that in my quote, w/o Boise small chance any SBelt join. Arkansas St., ULL were never offered a spot in the WAC. They along with M.Tenn.St. and ULM were looked at but not offered. If 2 or 3 left maybe La. Tech would see the Belt as better, who knows, its all about timing. If the WAC locks up UTSA and Texas St. right after a raid or surely before a raid. La. Tech could stay happy. As it is now La Tech sees the SBelt as lower than the WAC. They aren't wrong. $$$$ is what it boils down to WAC > SBelt (things can always change by conf. movement). All the other WAC schools made 540K each from Boise St. being in the Fiesta Bowl.

What I don't get is that the WAC has had 3 BCS games and CUSA 0, but CUSA is seen as better. La Tech and NM St. would leave for CUSA if offered. N.Texas that turned down the WAC would jump at the CUSA.

[mtgrizfan4life]

(1) Montana will not go Div II. That is a ploy to get more money and/or open the fans to moving 1A

(2) The university robs from the football program. A good percentage of football revenue goes to various aspects of the school, very little is pumped back to the football program. In my opinion the University short changes it's cash cow.

[SDHornet]

FSA would La Tech and NMSt only leave the WAC for ConfUSA? I only ask as I would hate for the western FCS schools that eventually move into the WAC (Sac State, CP, "the farm extension") end up having to circumnavigate the globe for conference play (flying to both Hawaii and La Tech would suck balls). Also since UTEP is the only other regional opponent for NMSt other than NM, what reason would they have for leaving the WAC?

[89Hen]

It's almost certain that the B10 will expand to 12, small chance of it going to 14.

I don't see anyone ever going to 14. MAC needs to lose a team.

[Fresno St. Alum]

FSA would La Tech and NMSt only leave the WAC for ConfUSA? I only ask as I would hate for the western FCS schools that eventually move into the WAC (Sac State, CP, "the farm extension") end up having to circumnavigate the globe for conference play (flying to both Hawaii and La Tech would suck balls). Also since UTEP is the only other regional opponent for NMSt other than NM, what reason would they have for leaving the WAC?

Chances of the NMSU and La. Tech going to CUSA are almost 0 but if invited they'd bail. NMSU would have all of those Texas schools to play and not have to go Idaho & Hawaii.

CUSA would look at N.Texas, M.Tenn.St., FAU, S.Alabama(bowl tie in), Charlotte(depending on when expansion was and if UNCC was FBS ready) even UTSA and Georgia St. before them

[Fresno St. Alum]

It's almost certain that the B10 will expand to 12, small chance of it going to 14.

I don't see anyone ever going to 14. MAC needs to lose a team.

I'm hoping they don't but B10 will let us know. Might go Rutgers, Syracuse, Missouri or Rutgers, Notre Dame, Missouri.

[catdaddy2402]

It's almost certain that the B10 will expand to 12, small chance of it going to 14.

I don't see anyone ever going to 14. MAC needs to lose a team.

Five years ago, before the invention of the Big Ten network, I would agree 100%. With the added revenue from expanding the network footprint I'm not so sure that 14 or even 16 is out of the question.

[catdaddy2402]

What I don't get is that the WAC has had 3 BCS games and CUSA 0, but CUSA is seen as better. La Tech and NM St. would leave for CUSA if offered. N.Texas that turned down the WAC would jump at the CUSA.

It's actually Boise 3 BCS bowls - CUSA 0. Outside of Boise the rest of the WAC hasn't been that impressive.

[Fresno St. Alum]

What I don't get is that the WAC has had 3 BCS games and CUSA 0, but CUSA is seen as better. La Tech and NM St. would leave for CUSA if offered. N.Texas that turned down the WAC would jump at the CUSA.

It's actually Boise 3 BCS bowls - CUSA 0. Outside of Boise the rest of the WAC hasn't been that impressive.

Don't correct me about WAC issues. You're wrong. Hawaii went to the Sugar Bowl and got raped by Georgia.

[JALMOND]

Fresno, you got some sources on the WCC looking to take Seattle and Denver? I was under the impression that there was talk on the inside about Seattle moving up and joining the WCC, enough that they did move up. However, when they formally applied for admission, it was unanimous AGAINST Seattle coming into the WCC, which left Seattle as an independent.

This is also the first time I've heard anything about Denver coming into the WCC. My feeling is that, if the conference is hung up on bringing in Seattle, Denver would have the same problem, maybe more due to Seattle being in close proximity to the other members. Then again, I didn't think they would move the conference tournament to Las Vegas so what do I know.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Fresno, you got some sources on the WCC looking to take Seattle and Denver? I was under the impression that there was talk on the inside about Seattle moving up and joining the WCC, enough that they did move up. However, when they formally applied for admission, it was unanimous AGAINST Seattle coming into the WCC, which left Seattle as an independent.

This is also the first time I've heard anything about Denver coming into the WCC. My feeling is that, if the conference is hung up on bringing in Seattle, Denver would have the same problem, maybe more due to Seattle being in close proximity to the other members. Then again, I didn't think they would move the conference tournament to Las Vegas so what do I know.

Yes you were right about Seattle being denied a couple of years ago, but when the WCC was looking at expansion they wanted 10 not 9. Pacific and Denver were also being looked at.

Only new things I heard about this is that when Seattle's provisional status was finished they might revisit WCC expansion.

I'm also wondering when the hell CS Bakersfield is going to get an invite from the Big West. They're finishing up their provisional membership as well.

[catdaddy2402]

Hawaii went to the Sugar Bowl and got raped by Georgia.

Oh yeah..forgot about Hawaii. Probably because I turned the channel early on in that laugher.

would La Tech and NMSt only leave the WAC for ConfUSA?

Both probably would. La Tech wouldn't let CUSA take a breath after asking before they accepted. I highly doubt either is ever going to get the opportunity, however.

When TCU left for the MWC and left CUSA at 11CUSA went looking, first at a couple MAC schools to tighten the eastern geography but none wanted to leave their bus league, CUSA then offered UTEP who accepted. Rumor has it that North Texas was the second choice, with La Tech third. From everything I have heard it was a distant second and third, with CUSA possibly staying at 11 for a while rather than expanding just for the 12th member.

[NCAAjunkie]

A little off topic here, but has there ever been a team in the history of 1-A/FBS to move DOWN to 1-AA/FCS?

[dbackjon]

A little off topic here, but has there ever been a team in the history of 1-A/FBS to move DOWN to 1-AA/FCS?

Welcome!


Ivy League was I-A from 1978-81
Some of the Southland Teams (like McNeese) as well in the same time period.

Since then, none that I am aware of.