How would you prove it?

[Skjellyfetti]

Um, that's simple.

According to the AZ law, if you produce a valid drivers license, you are automatically assumed to the a legal resident.

End of discussion.

Illegal immigrants can get driver's licenses in some states.

Discussion continues.

[mrklean]

That's the problem, How can anyone prove that they are a a U.S. Citizen.

[BDKJMU]

Um, that's simple.

According to the AZ law, if you produce a valid drivers license, you are automatically assumed to the a legal resident.

End of discussion.

Illegal immigrants can get driver's licenses in some states.

Discussion continues.

Only if have a DL from Hawaii, NM, or Washington. If you have a VALID DL from one of the other 47 states, end of discussion.

"....Hawaii, New Mexico and Washington don't require proof that motorists are in the United States legally before giving them driver's licenses or ID cards. Utah has a two-tiered system that grants illegal immigrants permission to drive with cards that can't be used as ID....."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2009/12/18/we ... -licenses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you have a Hawaii, NM, or Washinton DL, and you no hablo, or half no hablo, then an immigration check can be run through LESC.
http://policechiefmagazine.org/magazine ... e_id=22005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

End of discussion.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I would show them my DL, SSC and micro birth certificate I carry with me at all times.

That is usually enough for most of the racist minority cops we have here. I know and they know they are only pulling me over because I am white in Montana.

[OSBF]

Illegal immigrants can get driver's licenses in some states.

Discussion continues.

Only if have a DL from Hawaii, NM, or Washington. If you have a VALID DL from one of the other 47 states, end of discussion.

"....Hawaii, New Mexico and Washington don't require proof that motorists are in the United States legally before giving them driver's licenses or ID cards. Utah has a two-tiered system that grants illegal immigrants permission to drive with cards that can't be used as ID....."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2009/12/18/we ... -licenses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you have a Hawaii, NM, or Washinton DL, and you no hablo, or half no hablo, then an immigration check can be run through LESC.
http://policechiefmagazine.org/magazine ... e_id=22005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

End of discussion.

bullshit

guy in the cubicle directly across from mine employs several un-documented workers on his livestock farm. every one of them has a legal valid illinois drivers liscense, insurance card, and vehicle registration card.

[OSBF]

That's the problem, How can anyone prove that they are a a U.S. Citizen.

that's exactly the problem.

do we really want to become like the rest of the world where you have to carry a passport or some other form of federal issued govt ID card that must be presented on demand by any authority?

I dunno, that might be the answer in the long term.

[Baldy]

That's the problem, How can anyone prove that they are a a U.S. Citizen.

that's exactly the problem.

do we really want to become like the rest of the world where you have to carry a passport or some other form of federal issued govt ID card that must be presented on demand by any authority?

I dunno, that might be the answer in the long term.

According to US Federal Law:

As a permanent resident, it is your responsibility to:
• Obey all federal, state, and local laws.
• Pay federal, state, and local income taxes.
• Register with the Selective Service
• Maintain your immigration status.
• Carry proof of your permanent resident status at all
times.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/M-618.pdf

Again, END of discussion.

[JMU DJ]

that's exactly the problem.

do we really want to become like the rest of the world where you have to carry a passport or some other form of federal issued govt ID card that must be presented on demand by any authority?

I dunno, that might be the answer in the long term.

According to US Federal Law:

As a permanent resident, it is your responsibility to:
• Obey all federal, state, and local laws.
• Pay federal, state, and local income taxes.
• Register with the Selective Service
• Maintain your immigration status.
• Carry proof of your permanent resident status at all
times.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/M-618.pdf

Again, END of discussion.

End of discussion if you are a permanent resident, but what about if you are a Citizen? I'm not required to carry that info.

[Baldy]

According to US Federal Law:



http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/M-618.pdf

Again, END of discussion.

End of discussion if you are a permanent resident, but what about if you are a Citizen? I'm not required to carry that info.

Jeezus Christ

From the Arizona 1070 Law itself. Don't really know how to make this any more clear.

For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person… A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.
2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

"any valid United States federal, state, or local government issued identification", includes driver's licenses.
What part of that is so difficult to understand?

[Col Hogan]

That's the problem, How can anyone prove that they are a a U.S. Citizen.

that's exactly the problem.

do we really want to become like the rest of the world where you have to carry a passport or some other form of federal issued govt ID card that must be presented on demand by any authority?

I dunno, that might be the answer in the long term.

I agree with you...we should not have to prove citizenship simply to a police officer during a traffic stop...I am totally opposed to the Patriot Act...have been, and hoped the Obama Administration would have taken action when they came into power...but they didn't...

But there is no law on the books of any state that says you must prove citizenship...IMHO, you are exploiting the paranoia over the Arizona law that has to do with immigration status...and twisting it into a citizenship check..

[Rob Iola]

I agree with you...we should not have to prove citizenship simply to a police officer during a traffic stop...I am totally opposed to the Patriot Act...have been, and hoped the Obama Administration would have taken action when they came into power...but they didn't...

Oh c'mon - low-hanging fruit for Obama: blame Bush for giving him the Patriot Act but then keep it to show that he is strong in the fight against terrorism - how can he lose?

[Col Hogan]

I agree with you...we should not have to prove citizenship simply to a police officer during a traffic stop...I am totally opposed to the Patriot Act...have been, and hoped the Obama Administration would have taken action when they came into power...but they didn't...

Oh c'mon - low-hanging fruit for Obama: blame Bush for giving him the Patriot Act but then keep it to show that he is strong in the fight against terrorism - how can he lose?

It's a simple case of railing against something...but once in power, liking the authority it gives you...

Weak leadership...on second thought, total lack of leadership...

[89Hen]

how would you prove that you are a US citizen? Most of us only routinely carry a drivers liscense, but that really doesn't mean anything.

AFAIK, all the police are tied into a computer system. Your license will return your citizenship status.

[OSBF]

how would you prove that you are a US citizen? Most of us only routinely carry a drivers liscense, but that really doesn't mean anything.

AFAIK, all the police are tied into a computer system. Your license will return your citizenship status.

big mis conception

AGAIN................

Guy I work with has a large number of un-documented workers from Mexico on his livestock farm. All have a valid IL drivers liscense. Posession of a drivers liscense doesn't mean squat as to citizinship or legal resident status.

[travelinman67]

Apologize for letting Obama get elected.

[89Hen]

AFAIK, all the police are tied into a computer system. Your license will return your citizenship status.

big mis conception

AGAIN................

Guy I work with has a large number of un-documented workers from Mexico on his livestock farm. All have a valid IL drivers liscense. Posession of a drivers liscense doesn't mean squat as to citizinship or legal resident status.

I'm not sure which part you keep missing. The license itself is not a form of citizenship. But I'm fairly certain that the license, when put in the laptop on every police cruiser in the country, will return your citizenship status, along with a bevy of other information.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

They know they are wrong and just trying to make things confusing over a JUST law in Arizona.

If your LEGAL you have nothing to worry about.

[travelinman67]

big mis conception

AGAIN................

Guy I work with has a large number of un-documented workers from Mexico on his livestock farm. All have a valid IL drivers liscense. Posession of a drivers liscense doesn't mean squat as to citizinship or legal resident status.

I'm not sure which part you keep missing. The license itself is not a form of citizenship. But I'm fairly certain that the license, when put in the laptop on every police cruiser in the country, will return your citizenship status, along with a bevy of other information.

Correct. NCIC has tons of personal info. stored.

[OSBF]

big mis conception

AGAIN................

Guy I work with has a large number of un-documented workers from Mexico on his livestock farm. All have a valid IL drivers liscense. Posession of a drivers liscense doesn't mean squat as to citizinship or legal resident status.

I'm not sure which part you keep missing. The license itself is not a form of citizenship. But I'm fairly certain that the license, when put in the laptop on every police cruiser in the country, will return your citizenship status, along with a bevy of other information.

That's the point of being "UN-DOCUMENTED"

you aren't going to show up in any database anywhere

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I'm not sure which part you keep missing. The license itself is not a form of citizenship. But I'm fairly certain that the license, when put in the laptop on every police cruiser in the country, will return your citizenship status, along with a bevy of other information.

That's the point of being "UN-DOCUMENTED"

you aren't going to show up in any database anywhere

Then your illegal ass goes back home?

Wheres the problem?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

That's the point of being "UN-DOCUMENTED"

you aren't going to show up in any database anywhere

Then your illegal ass goes back home?

Wheres the problem?

Same exact thought when I read it.

This has been a sound ass beating.

Tell the people in the lunch room that you got it all figured out OSBF.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Lunch room?


No way they let this guy out of the kitchen.......

[89Hen]

I'm not sure which part you keep missing. The license itself is not a form of citizenship. But I'm fairly certain that the license, when put in the laptop on every police cruiser in the country, will return your citizenship status, along with a bevy of other information.

That's the point of being "UN-DOCUMENTED"

you aren't going to show up in any database anywhere

EXACTLY!

I feel like I'm in an Abbott and Costello routine. Which part is giving you the difficulty? If I'm a citizen, when I give the cop my license, he's going to easily find out I'm a citizen. If I'm an illegal, when the cop takes my license from me after cuffing me post-chase, he's going to easily find out I'm UN-DOCUMENTED.

Wasn't this the whole point of your question?

[bandl]

That's the point of being "UN-DOCUMENTED"

you aren't going to show up in any database anywhere

I feel like I'm in an Abbott and Costello routine. Which part is giving you the difficulty? If I'm a citizen, when I give the cop my license, he's going to easily find out I'm a citizen. If I'm an illegal, when the cop takes my license from me after cuffing me post-chase, he's going to easily find out I'm UN-DOCUMENTED.

Wasn't this the whole point of your question?

[BDKJMU]

Only if have a DL from Hawaii, NM, or Washington. If you have a VALID DL from one of the other 47 states, end of discussion.

"....Hawaii, New Mexico and Washington don't require proof that motorists are in the United States legally before giving them driver's licenses or ID cards. Utah has a two-tiered system that grants illegal immigrants permission to drive with cards that can't be used as ID....."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2009/12/18/we ... -licenses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you have a Hawaii, NM, or Washinton DL, and you no hablo, or half no hablo, then an immigration check can be run through LESC.
http://policechiefmagazine.org/magazine ... e_id=22005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

End of discussion.

bullshit

guy in the cubicle directly across from mine employs several un-documented workers on his livestock farm. every one of them has a legal valid illinois drivers liscense, insurance card, and vehicle registration card.

Then that sounds like valid ids obtained fraudulently (often using a stolen identity). Maybe Illinois is one of the states that hasn't beefed up the requirements for getting a DL & other ids like a lot of state have. Once you get one or two, that can open a pandoras box to getting more.

"undocumented workers"
The guy in the cubicle across from you doesn't have "undocumented" workers because there's NO SUCH THING as an "undocumented worker" They are mostly WELL documented. Either through fake docs, or as you just presented, valid docs fraudulently obtained.

I just laugh when I keep hearing retards and lefties keep referring to (well documented) illegals as "undocumented". Undocumented my ass!