First Division I "death penalty" in 25 years?

[Franks Tanks]

Even the Freeh reports makes a lot of conclusion with rather thin evidence.

Uh, how's that?

He makes conclusions such as stating that the cover-up was done to protect the program or to deflect bad publicity. He uncovered no evidence that woudl indicate this. In fact Spanier's one e-mail states something regarding being "humane" to Jerry. If anything it appears they failed to report to give their former employee the benefit of the doubt rather than to avoid bad pess. Epically bad decision without a doubt, but a different motive.

This article does a good job addressing this.

http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2012 ... 824761.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Gil Dobie]

It's not the players fault. Ruin Paterno's legacy, not the opportunity for kids to play football and get a good education.

[Skjellyfetti]

It's not the players fault. Ruin Paterno's legacy, not the opportunity for kids to play football and get a good education.

Sometimes collateral damage is necessary to punish.

It's not the childrens' fault when a father of 4 commits a crime and goes to prison for 20 years. But, they also have to suffer their father's punishment.

[AZGrizFan]

Uh, how's that?

He makes conclusions such as stating that the cover-up was done to protect the program or to deflect bad publicity. He uncovered no evidence that woudl indicate this. In fact Spanier's one e-mail states something regarding being "humane" to Jerry. If anything it appears they failed to report to give their former employee the benefit of the doubt rather than to avoid bad pess. Epically bad decision without a doubt, but a different motive.

This article does a good job addressing this.

http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2012 ... 824761.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in that same email, he acknowledges that "if this gets out, it'll result in horrible press" for the institution. But yeah, certainly not done to avoide bad publicity.

[bluehenbillk]

I read the Gil Spencer article from my hometown paper - it's garbage. Spencer has a stick up his craw about McQueary. Maybe if Spencer would've read the report versus pick out pieces to form his own opinions from he could've talked about the janitors who walked in on Sandusky LONG BEFORE McQueary ever did, and it was never reported. Why? Because the value system at Penn State was & still sadly is, broken. Protect, protect, protect the sacred cow that is the football program.

McQueary didn't goto the police for the same reasons the janitors didn't - for fear of their livelihood, for fear of bringing down Sandusky who was for decades #2 in State College to Paterno, for fear of being ostracized by & from the town they grew up in. Remember McQueary went to State College HS, I can't tell you where the janitors grew up but there's an excellent chance it was in the State College vicinity.

Most sane people, like most of you on this board reading this would say, I'd break the act up, make sure the kid was shielded from further abuse & I'd call the authorities. Well, at the time this happened there was no bigger authority in State College than Penn State Football. Spanier knew it, Curley & Shultz knew it, Paterno wasn't about to change it, and McQueary & the janitors and everyone that attended PSU in the last 50 years knew it as well.

If you think it's gone now you're fooling yourself. Look at the reactions of PSU people when you mention the words "death penalty". Living in PA I'm surrounded 24/7 by PSU grads & fans, some are level-headed but others are truthfully blind sheep. Whether it's the death penalty or sanctions so harsh they'd wish for the death penalty instead, PSU & PSU football needs to pay the price.

I'd like the 2-3 minutes back of my life I spent reading the Gil Spencer piece please.....

[Gil Dobie]

It's not the players fault. Ruin Paterno's legacy, not the opportunity for kids to play football and get a good education.

Sometimes collateral damage is necessary to punish.

It's not the childrens' fault when a father of 4 commits a crime and goes to prison for 20 years. But, they also have to suffer their father's punishment.

I see it more like a crime at a popular place to eat, a hotel, a nightclub, a amusement park, a local school. Get rid of the people involved and keep the business open for others to use and/or enjoy.

[Franks Tanks]

I read the Gil Spencer article from my hometown paper - it's garbage. Spencer has a stick up his craw about McQueary. Maybe if Spencer would've read the report versus pick out pieces to form his own opinions from he could've talked about the janitors who walked in on Sandusky LONG BEFORE McQueary ever did, and it was never reported. Why? Because the value system at Penn State was & still sadly is, broken. Protect, protect, protect the sacred cow that is the football program.

McQueary didn't goto the police for the same reasons the janitors didn't - for fear of their livelihood, for fear of bringing down Sandusky who was for decades #2 in State College to Paterno, for fear of being ostracized by & from the town they grew up in. Remember McQueary went to State College HS, I can't tell you where the janitors grew up but there's an excellent chance it was in the State College vicinity.

Most sane people, like most of you on this board reading this would say, I'd break the act up, make sure the kid was shielded from further abuse & I'd call the authorities. Well, at the time this happened there was no bigger authority in State College than Penn State Football. Spanier knew it, Curley & Shultz knew it, Paterno wasn't about to change it, and McQueary & the janitors and everyone that attended PSU in the last 50 years knew it as well.

If you think it's gone now you're fooling yourself. Look at the reactions of PSU people when you mention the words "death penalty". Living in PA I'm surrounded 24/7 by PSU grads & fans, some are level-headed but others are truthfully blind sheep. Whether it's the death penalty or sanctions so harsh they'd wish for the death penalty instead, PSU & PSU football needs to pay the price.

I'd like the 2-3 minutes back of my life I spent reading the Gil Spencer piece please.....

Please, because some janitor says he feared for his job does not mean he would've lost his job if he reported. Low level employees often have irrational fears such as this. Joe had a lot of influence, just like any other big time coach, but it is flat out illogical to suggest that Joe would be mad at a janitor for reporting what he saw. Perhaps the janitor was scared or confused, but he is using fear of losing his job as an excuse for not reporting.

Your point about being ostracized by the community for reporting is flat out wrong. People close to Penn State and in the community are pissed at McQueary and everyone else for NOT reporting. Why in the world would anyone hold someone in contempt for reporting a terrible crime, even if it included a locally famous individual?

Lastly much of the cover-up motives do not make sense. If the 2001 incident was reported and invesigated right away Penn State would have SOME bad publicity for having a child molerster as a former coach, but overall they would've been praised for reporting and handling a horrible situation properly. I fail to see how several smart people (Spanier, Joe, Curley) failed to see this. I want to learn a more logical motive as to why they did what they did.

[CitadelGrad]

It's not the players fault. Ruin Paterno's legacy, not the opportunity for kids to play football and get a good education.

Sometimes collateral damage is necessary to punish.

It's not the childrens' fault when a father of 4 commits a crime and goes to prison for 20 years. But, they also have to suffer their father's punishment.

Or maybe their lives improve because they are no longer associated with a criminal father.

Anyway, your point is idiotic. Those who deserve punishment are being punished. Sandusky will spend the rest of his life in prison. Spanier was fired and will be indicted. Curley is finished and will likely go to prison. Same for Schultz.

Punishment can serve two purposes. It can serve justice or vengeance. When you are talking about the acceptability of collateral damage, you've crossed the line from justice to vengeance.

[bluehenbillk]

Lastly much of the cover-up motives do not make sense. If the 2001 incident was reported and invesigated right away Penn State would have SOME bad publicity for having a child molerster as a former coach, but overall they would've been praised for reporting and handling a horrible situation properly. I fail to see how several smart people (Spanier, Joe, Curley) failed to see this. I want to learn a more logical motive as to why they did what they did.

Franks - we all would like to know, but: Joe's dead & Spanier, Curley & Shultz are all up on criminal charges so they're not going to be flapping their gums anytime soon....

[Franks Tanks]

Lastly much of the cover-up motives do not make sense. If the 2001 incident was reported and invesigated right away Penn State would have SOME bad publicity for having a child molerster as a former coach, but overall they would've been praised for reporting and handling a horrible situation properly. I fail to see how several smart people (Spanier, Joe, Curley) failed to see this. I want to learn a more logical motive as to why they did what they did.

Franks - we all would like to know, but: Joe's dead & Spanier, Curley & Shultz are all up on criminal charges so they're not going to be flapping their gums anytime soon....

People forget that Joe, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz are not monsters-- Jerry Sandusky is the monster. The others are good and decent human beings who made a terrible mistake and error in judgement. Many good people have made bad decisions. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged in 1998. They were all set to report to the proper authorities again in 2001, but decided against it at he last minute. I want to know what factored into their thought process. It was straight up the football team that is sad, but I feel logically that is not a great motive. What went through their heads? That is the question.

[CitadelGrad]

Franks - we all would like to know, but: Joe's dead & Spanier, Curley & Shultz are all up on criminal charges so they're not going to be flapping their gums anytime soon....

People forget that Joe, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz are not monsters-- Jerry Sandusky is the monster. The others are good and decent human beings who made a terrible mistake and error in judgement. Many good people have made bad decisions. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged in 1998. They were all set to report to the proper authorities again in 2001, but decided against it at he last minute. I want to know what factored into their thought process. It was straight up the football team that is sad, but I feel logically that is not a great motive. What went through their heads? That is the question.

If they had turned in Sandusky in 2001 they'd be heroes who protected the university and put a predator in prison. Sandusky's actions wouldn't have reflected poorly on Penn State, only on Sandusky.

[Franks Tanks]

People forget that Joe, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz are not monsters-- Jerry Sandusky is the monster. The others are good and decent human beings who made a terrible mistake and error in judgement. Many good people have made bad decisions. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged in 1998. They were all set to report to the proper authorities again in 2001, but decided against it at he last minute. I want to know what factored into their thought process. It was straight up the football team that is sad, but I feel logically that is not a great motive. What went through their heads? That is the question.

If they had turned in Sandusky in 2001 they'd be heroes who protected the university and put a predator in prison. Sandusky's actions wouldn't have reflected poorly on Penn State, only on Sandusky.

I tend to agree, but I think there would've still been a negative reaction in some manner to Penn State since Sandusky was on staff for so long. If Joe only cared about his legacy, he would've pushed to report everything right away.

[andy7171]

People forget that Joe, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz are not monsters-- Jerry Sandusky is the monster. The others are good and decent human beings who made a terrible mistake and error in judgement. Many good people have made bad decisions. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged in 1998. They were all set to report to the proper authorities again in 2001, but decided against it at he last minute. I want to know what factored into their thought process. It was straight up the football team that is sad, but I feel logically that is not a great motive. What went through their heads? That is the question.

If they had turned in Sandusky in 2001 they'd be heroes who protected the university and put a predator in prison. Sandusky's actions wouldn't have reflected poorly on Penn State, only on Sandusky.

Moment of clarity?

[grizzaholic]

Franks - we all would like to know, but: Joe's dead & Spanier, Curley & Shultz are all up on criminal charges so they're not going to be flapping their gums anytime soon....

People forget that Joe, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz are not monsters-- Jerry Sandusky is the monster. The others are good and decent human beings who made a terrible mistake and error in judgement. Many good people have made bad decisions. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged in 1998. They were all set to report to the proper authorities again in 2001, but decided against it at he last minute. I want to know what factored into their thought process. It was straight up the football team that is sad, but I feel logically that is not a great motive. What went through their heads? That is the question.

If you know about child rape that is going on ON campus and you do nothing you are NOT a good and decent human being. You are a scum bag and deserve to be punished as much as the perpetrator.

[Grizalltheway]

Franks - we all would like to know, but: Joe's dead & Spanier, Curley & Shultz are all up on criminal charges so they're not going to be flapping their gums anytime soon....

People forget that Joe, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz are not monsters-- Jerry Sandusky is the monster. The others are good and decent human beings who made a terrible mistake and error in judgement. Many good people have made bad decisions. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged in 1998. They were all set to report to the proper authorities again in 2001, but decided against it at he last minute. I want to know what factored into their thought process. It was straight up the football team that is sad, but I feel logically that is not a great motive. What went through their heads? That is the question.

I personally don't give a flying fuck what their thought process was. There is no legitimate excuse (short of fearing for one's life) for not turning in someone whom you know has preyed on children. End of story.

[Ibanez]

Franks - we all would like to know, but: Joe's dead & Spanier, Curley & Shultz are all up on criminal charges so they're not going to be flapping their gums anytime soon....

People forget that Joe, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz are not monsters-- Jerry Sandusky is the monster. The others are good and decent human beings who made a terrible mistake and error in judgement. Many good people have made bad decisions. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged in 1998. They were all set to report to the proper authorities again in 2001, but decided against it at he last minute. I want to know what factored into their thought process. It was straight up the football team that is sad, but I feel logically that is not a great motive. What went through their heads? That is the question.

They allowed many others to be abused. They enabled Sandusky therefore they need to be punished by law for failing to protect lives when they knew they had a monster on their hands.

[Franks Tanks]

People forget that Joe, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz are not monsters-- Jerry Sandusky is the monster. The others are good and decent human beings who made a terrible mistake and error in judgement. Many good people have made bad decisions. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged in 1998. They were all set to report to the proper authorities again in 2001, but decided against it at he last minute. I want to know what factored into their thought process. It was straight up the football team that is sad, but I feel logically that is not a great motive. What went through their heads? That is the question.

I personally don't give a flying **** what their thought process was. There is no legitimate excuse (short of fearing for one's life) for not turning in someone whom you know has preyed on children. End of story.

That is not quite accurate. Now we know Jerry preyed on children, but that was not a fact in 2001. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged with a crime in 1998. He was investigated by several detectives, a case worker, and a psychologist in 98' but the DA did not press charged due to lack of evidence. In 2001 the excuse may be that they weer not told what really happened. They should have reported, but saying that they knew for sure that Jerry was a child predator in 2001 is not accurate.

[Franks Tanks]

People forget that Joe, Spanier, Curley, and Shultz are not monsters-- Jerry Sandusky is the monster. The others are good and decent human beings who made a terrible mistake and error in judgement. Many good people have made bad decisions. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged in 1998. They were all set to report to the proper authorities again in 2001, but decided against it at he last minute. I want to know what factored into their thought process. It was straight up the football team that is sad, but I feel logically that is not a great motive. What went through their heads? That is the question.

They allowed many others to be abused. They enabled Sandusky therefore they need to be punished by law for failing to protect lives when they knew they had a monster on their hands.

I never said they do not deserve to be punished for wrong doing, I said they are not fundamentally bad people. I can't believe I need to explain the distinction. See my prior post for why it was rather dififcult to know Jerry was a monster in 2001.

[Ibanez]

I personally don't give a flying **** what their thought process was. There is no legitimate excuse (short of fearing for one's life) for not turning in someone whom you know has preyed on children. End of story.

That is not quite accurate. Now we know Jerry preyed on children, but that was not a fact in 2001. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged with a crime in 1998. He was investigated by several detectives, a case worker, and a psychologist in 98' but the DA did not press charged due to lack of evidence. In 2001 the excuse may be that they weer not told what really happened. They should have reported, but saying that they knew for sure that Jerry was a child predator in 2001 is not accurate.

The first major miss was in 1998, says Keteyian, when the mother of an 11-year-old boy told police her son said he had showered in the football locker room with Sandusky. According to the grand jury report, with police listening in, Sandusky apologized to the mother, telling her, "I wish I were dead."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162- ... m-in-1998/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why apologize if you did nothing wrong? They knew in 2001. They were just spineless men.

[Ibanez]

They allowed many others to be abused. They enabled Sandusky therefore they need to be punished by law for failing to protect lives when they knew they had a monster on their hands.

I never said they do not deserve to be punished for wrong doing, I said they are not fundamentally bad people. I can't believe I need to explain the distinction. See my prior post for why it was rather dififcult to know Jerry was a monster in 2001.

Where did I say there were bad men? I said they are guilty of enabling and covering up a sexual deviant and predator.

[Franks Tanks]

That is not quite accurate. Now we know Jerry preyed on children, but that was not a fact in 2001. They knew Jerry was investigated but not charged with a crime in 1998. He was investigated by several detectives, a case worker, and a psychologist in 98' but the DA did not press charged due to lack of evidence. In 2001 the excuse may be that they weer not told what really happened. They should have reported, but saying that they knew for sure that Jerry was a child predator in 2001 is not accurate.

The first major miss was in 1998, says Keteyian, when the mother of an 11-year-old boy told police her son said he had showered in the football locker room with Sandusky. According to the grand jury report, with police listening in, Sandusky apologized to the mother, telling her, "I wish I were dead."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162- ... m-in-1998/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why apologize if you did nothing wrong? They knew in 2001. They were just spineless men.

I am not going to speculate why Jerry Sandusky did something- he is out of his mind.

1998 was a proper investigation by all accounts. I do not know specifically why the Centre County DA did not prosecute in 1998, but I assume he did not have enough evidence.

[Grizalltheway]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162- ... m-in-1998/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why apologize if you did nothing wrong? They knew in 2001. They were just spineless men.

I am not going to speculate why Jerry Sandusky did something- he is out of his mind.

1998 was a proper investigation by all accounts. I do not know specifically why the Centre County DA did not prosecute in 1998, but I assume he did not have enough evidence.

Does an apology to the mother of the victim, with police listening in, not constitute a confession, or at least give them enough probable cause to make an arrest? I think it's more likely the DA was just another head-in-the-sand PSU alum trying to protect his school's reputation at any cost.

[Franks Tanks]

I am not going to speculate why Jerry Sandusky did something- he is out of his mind.

1998 was a proper investigation by all accounts. I do not know specifically why the Centre County DA did not prosecute in 1998, but I assume he did not have enough evidence.

Does an apology to the mother of the victim, with police listening in, not constitute a confession, or at least give them enough probable cause to make an arrest? I think it's more likely the DA was just another head-in-the-sand PSU alum trying to protect his school's reputation at any cost.

You can join the media. You have no proof of anything of the sort yet draw conclusions. Once again how the hell does doing this protect the school's reputation at any cost? They had a deviant as an employee that nobody knew about. How does that reflect poorly on the school?

Do you know what Jerry said on the tape? Do you know what type of evidence is required to prosecute a case such as this? Are you privy to the police and child welfare investigation in 1998? Well Ray Gricar was and did not press charges. Gricar is from Cleveland and went to the University of Dayton. His only connection with Penn State is that his wife worked there.

[Skjellyfetti]

Oh. Now they're blaming the media.

[Franks Tanks]

Oh. Now they're blaming the media.

I am blaming the media?

It was a reference to some of the false claims made with no evidence. Why is it reasonable to suggest that the DA was "protecting" Penn State in 1998? What reason would be have to do so?