How N.Korea can kill 90% of Americans

[Ivytalk]

Tillerson ain't too concerned.



N Korea launched another missle attack on the fish in he Sea of Japan.

His statement (in full):

. North Korea launched yet another intermediate range ballistic missile. The United States has spoken enough about North Korea. We have no further comment.

I actually like it. Don't give them the attention they crave.

I agree with Smelly. Lure Anderson Cooper, Amanpour, Martha Raddatz, and a few other offensive journalists in there, then turn NK into asphalt.

[CID1990]

FINALLY

A sensible reaction to NK, instead of some useless, lengthy anodyne statement

[BDKJMU]

Today's WSJ:
North Korea Dreams of Turning Out the Lights
Pyongyang doesn’t need a perfect missile. Detonating a nuke above Seoul—or L.A.—would sow chaos.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-kore ... 1496960987

Obviously as the the article states the more immediate threat is to S Korea. Good news for us is that we had a successfully tested an anti ICBM test last week. Last successful test was 2014, after multiple failed tests in 2010.

[BDKJMU]

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/d ... ans-at-any


Interesting article. CID, thoughts?

Well, it's been considered.

Read "One Second After" by Bill Forstchen

Consider that if the lights go out and all electronics are fried, we will immediately go back to 1850

The first people to die will be elderly, sick, insulin dependent diabetics, etc

The food will be gone within a few weeks. If it happens in spring that will be better than if it happens in late summer because a crop will come in, but that will only benefit those who grow it and can defend it

Internecine conflicts will start within the first two months.

It will take more than a year to get the lights back on because we dont have replacement grid transformers. I think replacements would have to be made and transported from .... South Korea....

Maybe no 90% but I'd guess we'd lose a good 40% of the population in an EMP attack after 1-2 years and it would take just 3 or 4 small warheads to shut the entire country off

Very plausible, and not just from enemy action - there was a solar flare in the 1860s that would have creamed one whole side of the globe if it had happened in the current age

BTW I just got done reading his next 2 books, 'One Year After' (published last June) and 'The Final Day' (published this past Jan). OK, but a little hokey. 'One Second After' was the best & most realistic of the 3. I would definitely recommend it to anyone who hasn't read it..

[BDKJMU]

I think the most likely scenario if an EMP were to hit it would be a significant chunk of the lower 48, but not the whole lower 48, maybe not even a majority, that would be catastrophicly affected. Even so, It would be Katrina or Sandy x 100 or 1,000, spreading unimaginable chaos though the not only the affected part of the country, but the unaffected part as well. Would cost millions of lives, cost trillions of $$, and take years, if not several decades, until things were back to somewhat normal..

[Col Hogan]

I think the most likely scenario if an EMP were to hit it would be a significant chunk of the lower 48, but not the whole lower 48, maybe not even a majority, that would be catastrophicly affected. Even so, It would be Katrina or Sandy x 100 or 1,000, spreading unimaginable chaos though the not only the affected part of the country, but the unaffected part as well. Would cost millions of lives, cost trillions of $$, and take years, if not several decades, until things were back to somewhat normal..

There are so many variables that only worse case scenarios are valid...

If it is man-made, how many warheads are set off?
Assuming air-burst, how high?

A low-yield bomb somehow smuggled into the country and set off at a target of choice will create a small EMP with a limited range...

I don't think (at this time) that the North Koreans have the capacity to set off enough high level, high altitude blasts to take out a majority of the country...but I would not doubt they could do something...and cause panic...

It would be the last thing they do...

[Col Hogan]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-kore ... 1496960987

[BDKJMU]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-kore ... 1496960987

Look up.
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/ ... 5#p1130005

[CID1990]

Well, it's been considered.

Read "One Second After" by Bill Forstchen

Consider that if the lights go out and all electronics are fried, we will immediately go back to 1850

The first people to die will be elderly, sick, insulin dependent diabetics, etc

The food will be gone within a few weeks. If it happens in spring that will be better than if it happens in late summer because a crop will come in, but that will only benefit those who grow it and can defend it

Internecine conflicts will start within the first two months.

It will take more than a year to get the lights back on because we dont have replacement grid transformers. I think replacements would have to be made and transported from .... South Korea....

Maybe no 90% but I'd guess we'd lose a good 40% of the population in an EMP attack after 1-2 years and it would take just 3 or 4 small warheads to shut the entire country off

Very plausible, and not just from enemy action - there was a solar flare in the 1860s that would have creamed one whole side of the globe if it had happened in the current age

BTW I just got done reading his next 2 books, 'One Year After' (published last June) and 'The Final Day' (published this past Jan). OK, but a little hokey. 'One Second After' was the best & most realistic of the 3. I would definitely recommend it to anyone who hasn't read it..

I havent read the sequels. TBH, those would have to be pure speculation. In fact, novels like that probably only encourage people to dismiss the whole scenario.

Here's the reality:

China, Russia, and a few allies already have the means to do this today. China and Russia actually have the contingency plan, and weapons in place for the specific purpose of doing it.

Having a warhead is the hardest piece- NK already has that. The delivery system is the easy part. Or, it can be done on the cheap, as in the novel.

The threat is real but nobody really thinks about it. It's the poor man's way of taking down the US.


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[houndawg]

I don't think anyone really knows fore sure how much power you could knock out with an EMP blast. It's not like it's been tested. I have my doubts, because that would be a very big energy flux covering a very large area.

I would be more worried about solar gamma ray bursts like CID alluded to because a nuke isn't even a firecracker compared to energy the sun can release. I wish we would show 1/10th the concern about that as we do about climate change.

I think you can safely say that it's not in the interest of pretty much every advanced country on Earth for the lights to go out in even a significant part of America. I would think China might roll over and squash North Korea if they were really stupid enough to try an EMP strike.

Hell yes. The Chinese won't sit still for anybody bombing their property

[dbackjon]

So why don't we spend some of the military trillions in hardening our grid, and subsidizing transformer manufacturing in the US? Hell, we give subsidies to Wal Mart to open a store - at least these subsidies would be in the public interest.

[CID1990]

So why don't we spend some of the military trillions in hardening our grid, and subsidizing transformer manufacturing in the US? Hell, we give subsidies to Wal Mart to open a store - at least these subsidies would be in the public interest.

I've been asking these questions for a very long time.

But you want to know who the biggest opponents to spending in these areas are? Democrats. The Republicans arent a lot better, but Forschen himself was branded as a nut mainly by Democrats

The same people who said Russia wasn't a threat during the Cold War, as long as we didn't antagonize them

The same people who wear Chairman Mao shirts at DNC headquarters during recent elections

The same people who say "the 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back"

Talk to your own peeps, Jon


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[SeattleGriz]

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/d ... ans-at-any


Interesting article. CID, thoughts?

Well, it's been considered.

Read "One Second After" by Bill Forstchen

Consider that if the lights go out and all electronics are fried, we will immediately go back to 1850

The first people to die will be elderly, sick, insulin dependent diabetics, etc

The food will be gone within a few weeks. If it happens in spring that will be better than if it happens in late summer because a crop will come in, but that will only benefit those who grow it and can defend it

Internecine conflicts will start within the first two months.

It will take more than a year to get the lights back on because we dont have replacement grid transformers. I think replacements would have to be made and transported from .... South Korea....

Maybe no 90% but I'd guess we'd lose a good 40% of the population in an EMP attack after 1-2 years and it would take just 3 or 4 small warheads to shut the entire country off

Very plausible, and not just from enemy action - there was a solar flare in the 1860s that would have creamed one whole side of the globe if it had happened in the current age

I have my scooter in a Faraday box. That's all I need.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[SeattleGriz]

"How N.Korea can kill 90% of Americans"
OMG ! FEAR !!

Type 'B61' into your favorite search engine.
Our Congress Critters are debating whether to spend $20 billion making them "better"

They're simple gravity bombs deliverable at up-to 2,000 feet per second from any American air platform built in the last 50 years. You can 'dial-them-up' between 2- to 20X 'Hiroshimas'

The point being: Before any ICBM from the DPRK enters its decent phase, Little Un's Artillery will be glass-ified in a tactical, surgeon-like precision attack; because closeness always counts in the accuracy of strategic weaponry. AND ... this is just the stuff we brag about. I bet we gots some seriously illegal strategic toys, too. USA! USA!

More importantly, this would be a mere polite precursor to the FBM Boomers joining the party. We only have 18 of them, so ... I wonder what the over/under is on Shock-&-Awe in NK? It's only the size of Mississippi. mmMM ...

2X UGM-133s from 6 FBMs (7,500+ mile/range) = 12 x 12 ((MIRVs) = 750 Hiroshima-equivelent

Is that enough? Want more?
You can't blow-back to the Stone Age what is already there.

I all for that plan, while believing we have the precision to severely restrict civilian casualties?

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[CID1990]

"How N.Korea can kill 90% of Americans"
OMG ! FEAR !!

Type 'B61' into your favorite search engine.
Our Congress Critters are debating whether to spend $20 billion making them "better"

They're simple gravity bombs deliverable at up-to 2,000 feet per second from any American air platform built in the last 50 years. You can 'dial-them-up' between 2- to 20X 'Hiroshimas'

The point being: Before any ICBM from the DPRK enters its decent phase, Little Un's Artillery will be glass-ified in a tactical, surgeon-like precision attack; because closeness always counts in the accuracy of strategic weaponry. AND ... this is just the stuff we brag about. I bet we gots some seriously illegal strategic toys, too. USA! USA!

More importantly, this would be a mere polite precursor to the FBM Boomers joining the party. We only have 18 of them, so ... I wonder what the over/under is on Shock-&-Awe in NK? It's only the size of Mississippi. mmMM ...

2X UGM-133s from 6 FBMs (7,500+ mile/range) = 12 x 12 ((MIRVs) = 750 Hiroshima-equivelent

Is that enough? Want more?
You can't blow-back to the Stone Age what is already there.

I all for that plan, while believing we have the precision to severely restrict civilian casualties?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Old Slo Guy's stuff is spot on if we live in a universe where we would strike first




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[houndawg]

Well, it's been considered.

Read "One Second After" by Bill Forstchen

Consider that if the lights go out and all electronics are fried, we will immediately go back to 1850

The first people to die will be elderly, sick, insulin dependent diabetics, etc

The food will be gone within a few weeks. If it happens in spring that will be better than if it happens in late summer because a crop will come in, but that will only benefit those who grow it and can defend it

Internecine conflicts will start within the first two months.

It will take more than a year to get the lights back on because we dont have replacement grid transformers. I think replacements would have to be made and transported from .... South Korea....

Maybe no 90% but I'd guess we'd lose a good 40% of the population in an EMP attack after 1-2 years and it would take just 3 or 4 small warheads to shut the entire country off

Very plausible, and not just from enemy action - there was a solar flare in the 1860s that would have creamed one whole side of the globe if it had happened in the current age

I have my scooter in a Faraday box. That's all I need.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

1960 Massey Ferguson 35 with the Perkins diesel and nothing electronic.

I'll have the interstate system to myself.

[CID1990]

I have my scooter in a Faraday box. That's all I need.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

1960 Massey Ferguson 35 with the Perkins diesel and nothing electronic.

I'll have the interstate system to myself.

66 Ford Falcon


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[Rob Iola]

I have my scooter in a Faraday box. That's all I need.

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1960 Massey Ferguson 35 with the Perkins diesel and nothing electronic.

I'll have the interstate system to myself.

How much diesel do you have stored in the tank out back? And how much fire-power to defend it?

[houndawg]

1960 Massey Ferguson 35 with the Perkins diesel and nothing electronic.

I'll have the interstate system to myself.

How much diesel do you have stored in the tank out back? And how much fire-power to defend it?

We'll do pretty well here, not much to waste a nuke on. Me and three neighbors control a couple of hundred acres, and you have one way in by land that would make a very nice kill zone. Have enough diesel to last until the biodiesel comes on line

[Ibanez]

I have my scooter in a Faraday box. That's all I need.

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1960 Massey Ferguson 35 with the Perkins diesel and nothing electronic.

I'll have the interstate system to myself.

Probably not.
1) There will be abandoned vehicles on the roads.
2) There isn't any definitive proof that an EMP will disable modern vehicles. True, there haven't been true destructive tests. But simulations showed cars stopping but able to be restarted.


You won't be alone. Think about this...when your diesel runs out, how do you plan on getting more? What's your plan for siphoning it from a gas station.

[SeattleGriz]

Don't need a bomb when you have these.
http://www.boeing.com/features/2012/10/ ... 22-12.page


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[houndawg]

1960 Massey Ferguson 35 with the Perkins diesel and nothing electronic.

I'll have the interstate system to myself.

Probably not.
1) There will be abandoned vehicles on the roads.
2) There isn't any definitive proof that an EMP will disable modern vehicles. True, there haven't been true destructive tests. But simulations showed cars stopping but able to be restarted.


You won't be alone. Think about this...when your diesel runs out, how do you plan on getting more? What's your plan for siphoning it from a gas station.

I won't be siphoning. The hundreds of farms in the area all have above ground tanks that gravity feed. Their new gear will be be fried and I'll have access to thousands of gallons of for a freshly overhauled tractor that can work all day on five gallons of diesel. I'll have conks hustling to fill their boxes with veggies and keep up with me.
Re

[Skjellyfetti]

Until you need to freshly overhaul your tractor again. You'd be better of with a mule and plow.

[CID1990]

Until you need to freshly overhaul your tractor again. You'd be better of with a mule and plow.

exactly

and guess what ol CID has access to in NC?


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[Skjellyfetti]

A stash of power bars?