2017 NBA Finals: Warriors vs Cavaliers

[GannonFan]

Granted, MJ never really had to cover the other team's best scorer as that typically went to Pippen, but at the same time, I never saw MJ get repeatedly torched time and time again in an NBA Finals by the guy he was guarding. Lebron got lit up last night - he could stop Durant or Curry last night, either on outside shots or, even more glaring, when they drove to the hoop on him. You can't be the GOAT and get that many highlight plays against you in an NBA Finals game.

I don't have either one in consideration for my GOAT. ESPN has been on this MJ vs Lebron GOAT debate for a couple years now.

Leaving Lebron off the GOAT is one thing, but not having MJ even in consideration for GOAT is just crazy talk. I understand the Oscar angle, or even the Wilt or Russell, but MJ is certainly in that conversation.

[Gil Dobie]

I don't have either one in consideration for my GOAT. ESPN has been on this MJ vs Lebron GOAT debate for a couple years now.

Leaving Lebron off the GOAT is one thing, but not having MJ even in consideration for GOAT is just crazy talk. I understand the Oscar angle, or even the Wilt or Russell, but MJ is certainly in that conversation.

Today I'm leaning towards Jabbar over Wilt & Russell. Lebron is probably the greatest athlete to play in the NBA, but IMO, not the best basketball player. MJ is in the conversation after the big 3.

[Gil Dobie]

NBA should have some 1-1 contest like this, only before the players are in their 40's. These 2 were almost team mates in Milwaukee. Dr J was drafted by the Bucks, but went to the ABA.

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[GannonFan]

Leaving Lebron off the GOAT is one thing, but not having MJ even in consideration for GOAT is just crazy talk. I understand the Oscar angle, or even the Wilt or Russell, but MJ is certainly in that conversation.

Today I'm leaning towards Jabbar over Wilt & Russell. Lebron is probably the greatest athlete to play in the NBA, but IMO, not the best basketball player. MJ is in the conversation after the big 3.

So hard to compare a big guy with a scorer like MJ. As for the big guys, I'd take Wilt over Kareem every time. Kareem's only advantage over Wilt was playing him when Wilt was late in his career and when Kareem was in his prime. Wilt's prime was significantly better than Kareem's. Granted, all fantastic players, but I think Wilt over Kareem isn't too controversial.

If I had a pickup basketball game of the best basketball players of all time, magically at whatever age they were at their own all-time best, the only two guys I'd take with the first pick would be Wilt or MJ, and if I was picking second I would pick whoever the other guy didn't pick.

[Gil Dobie]

Today I'm leaning towards Jabbar over Wilt & Russell. Lebron is probably the greatest athlete to play in the NBA, but IMO, not the best basketball player. MJ is in the conversation after the big 3.

So hard to compare a big guy with a scorer like MJ. As for the big guys, I'd take Wilt over Kareem every time. Kareem's only advantage over Wilt was playing him when Wilt was late in his career and when Kareem was in his prime. Wilt's prime was significantly better than Kareem's. Granted, all fantastic players, but I think Wilt over Kareem isn't too controversial.

If I had a pickup basketball game of the best basketball players of all time, magically at whatever age they were at their own all-time best, the only two guys I'd take with the first pick would be Wilt or MJ, and if I was picking second I would pick whoever the other guy didn't pick.

I go back and forth between Wilt and Kareem with Russell usually #3. Kareem had 3 NCAA titles, 6 NBA titles and 6 MVP's to his credit. Kareem had the unstoppable shot, the skyhook. Wilt had more power, but he had the Shaq issue with free throws, giving the nod to Kareem at that point.

[GannonFan]

So hard to compare a big guy with a scorer like MJ. As for the big guys, I'd take Wilt over Kareem every time. Kareem's only advantage over Wilt was playing him when Wilt was late in his career and when Kareem was in his prime. Wilt's prime was significantly better than Kareem's. Granted, all fantastic players, but I think Wilt over Kareem isn't too controversial.

If I had a pickup basketball game of the best basketball players of all time, magically at whatever age they were at their own all-time best, the only two guys I'd take with the first pick would be Wilt or MJ, and if I was picking second I would pick whoever the other guy didn't pick.

I go back and forth between Wilt and Kareem with Russell usually #3. Kareem had 3 NCAA titles, 6 NBA titles and 6 MVP's to his credit. Kareem had the unstoppable shot, the skyhook. Wilt had more power, but he had the Shaq issue with free throws, giving the nod to Kareem at that point.

Kareem got to play in the era after Wilt and Russell. No one's putting Bill Walton in the top 5 players of all time. Kareem got to be on those UCLA teams, teams that didn't struggle to keep winning NCAA titles when he wasn't there. And Kareem got to play in the era where the ABA siphoned off several top players. And I'm not sure how unstoppable the skyhook would've been against Wilt in his prime. Even in Wilt's old age (again, 11 years older than Kareem) and when saddled with injuries he still managed to block the skyhook, regardless of which hand Kareem was shooting with. The only thing that could stop the skyhook would be a freakishly athletic and tall transformational player and that's what Wilt was.

[Gil Dobie]

I go back and forth between Wilt and Kareem with Russell usually #3. Kareem had 3 NCAA titles, 6 NBA titles and 6 MVP's to his credit. Kareem had the unstoppable shot, the skyhook. Wilt had more power, but he had the Shaq issue with free throws, giving the nod to Kareem at that point.

Kareem got to play in the era after Wilt and Russell. No one's putting Bill Walton in the top 5 players of all time. Kareem got to be on those UCLA teams, teams that didn't struggle to keep winning NCAA titles when he wasn't there. And Kareem got to play in the era where the ABA siphoned off several top players. And I'm not sure how unstoppable the skyhook would've been against Wilt in his prime. Even in Wilt's old age (again, 11 years older than Kareem) and when saddled with injuries he still managed to block the skyhook, regardless of which hand Kareem was shooting with. The only thing that could stop the skyhook would be a freakishly athletic and tall transformational player and that's what Wilt was.

It's close for me between these 2. When Walton was healthy, he was on of the best ever. There were a lot of good centers in the 1970's. Reed, Cowens, Unseld, Thurmond, McAdoo & Lanier. Ask me next week and I might say Wilt, but today I'm on Kareem.

[GannonFan]

Kareem got to play in the era after Wilt and Russell. No one's putting Bill Walton in the top 5 players of all time. Kareem got to be on those UCLA teams, teams that didn't struggle to keep winning NCAA titles when he wasn't there. And Kareem got to play in the era where the ABA siphoned off several top players. And I'm not sure how unstoppable the skyhook would've been against Wilt in his prime. Even in Wilt's old age (again, 11 years older than Kareem) and when saddled with injuries he still managed to block the skyhook, regardless of which hand Kareem was shooting with. The only thing that could stop the skyhook would be a freakishly athletic and tall transformational player and that's what Wilt was.

It's close for me between these 2. When Walton was healthy, he was on of the best ever. There were a lot of good centers in the 1970's. Reed, Cowens, Unseld, Thurmond, McAdoo & Lanier. Ask me next week and I might say Wilt, but today I'm on Kareem.

Sure, those guys were good centers, but the height disparity was huge. Kareem was 7'2", Wilt was 7'1". Of those guys you listed only Thurmond was more than 6'10". Heck, Wes Unseld was a 6'7" center - he was a full two inches shorter than Magic Johnson and only an inch taller than MJ or Kobe Bryant. Of course Kareem's skyhook was unstoppable, he almost never played anyone near his own height, and often saw centers 4"-6" shorter than he was. And some of those guys Kareem rarely saw - Willis Reed, all 6'9" of him, only played till 1974 and injuries limited him well before that. And yes, Bill Walton could've been one of the best ever, but unfortunately, between skipping a year while demanding a trade and then being injured for much of his NBA career, we never found out (he only ever played one full playoff uninjured in his prime and he won the title that year). The 1970's had good centers, but injuries curtailed most of them and even then, they were just too short.

[Gil Dobie]

It's close for me between these 2. When Walton was healthy, he was on of the best ever. There were a lot of good centers in the 1970's. Reed, Cowens, Unseld, Thurmond, McAdoo & Lanier. Ask me next week and I might say Wilt, but today I'm on Kareem.

Sure, those guys were good centers, but the height disparity was huge. Kareem was 7'2", Wilt was 7'1". Of those guys you listed only Thurmond was more than 6'10". Heck, Wes Unseld was a 6'7" center - he was a full two inches shorter than Magic Johnson and only an inch taller than MJ or Kobe Bryant. Of course Kareem's skyhook was unstoppable, he almost never played anyone near his own height, and often saw centers 4"-6" shorter than he was. And some of those guys Kareem rarely saw - Willis Reed, all 6'9" of him, only played till 1974 and injuries limited him well before that. And yes, Bill Walton could've been one of the best ever, but unfortunately, between skipping a year while demanding a trade and then being injured for much of his NBA career, we never found out (he only ever played one full playoff uninjured in his prime and he won the title that year). The 1970's had good centers, but injuries curtailed most of them and even then, they were just too short.

Small doesn't mean a taller person could dominate. Most of the centers listed weighed about the same, if not more than Kareem. 7'3" Randy Breuer said his feet were bleeding after guarding Magic Johnson.

Interesting facts.
If you look at actual measurements, Kareem was 7'1.88", Wilt 7'0.6", Shaq 6'11.5", Russell 6'9.63, Elvin Hayes 6'9.5". Wingspan Kareem 7'5", Wilt 7'8", Shaq 7'7", Russell 7'4".

[GannonFan]

Sure, those guys were good centers, but the height disparity was huge. Kareem was 7'2", Wilt was 7'1". Of those guys you listed only Thurmond was more than 6'10". Heck, Wes Unseld was a 6'7" center - he was a full two inches shorter than Magic Johnson and only an inch taller than MJ or Kobe Bryant. Of course Kareem's skyhook was unstoppable, he almost never played anyone near his own height, and often saw centers 4"-6" shorter than he was. And some of those guys Kareem rarely saw - Willis Reed, all 6'9" of him, only played till 1974 and injuries limited him well before that. And yes, Bill Walton could've been one of the best ever, but unfortunately, between skipping a year while demanding a trade and then being injured for much of his NBA career, we never found out (he only ever played one full playoff uninjured in his prime and he won the title that year). The 1970's had good centers, but injuries curtailed most of them and even then, they were just too short.

Small doesn't mean a taller person could dominate. Most of the centers listed weighed about the same, if not more than Kareem. 7'3" Randy Breuer said his feet were bleeding after guarding Magic Johnson.

Interesting facts.
If you look at actual measurements, Kareem was 7'1.88", Wilt 7'0.6", Shaq 6'11.5", Russell 6'9.63, Elvin Hayes 6'9.5". Wingspan Kareem 7'5", Wilt 7'8", Shaq 7'7", Russell 7'4".

No, but smaller means you're never going to get to that skyhook. Wilt's measurements are significant - there's a reason why he could block Kareem's unblockable shot, even when Wilt was old and broken down. Can't really teach big and you certainly can't teach a 7'8" wingspan - the dude was truly a freak.

[Gil Dobie]

Video presents and fairly unbiased view of he two greats. At the end, Kareem mentions Jordan hasn't even come close to doing the things Wilt did.

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[93henfan]

Jesus Christ, who cares? It's basketball.

[Gil Dobie]

Jesus Christ, who cares? It's basketball.

I can't answer for Jesus, but some of us like basketball.

[GannonFan]

Jesus Christ, who cares? It's basketball.

I can't answer for Jesus, but some of us like basketball.

Speaking about Jesus and basketball, remember the movie "He Got Game" and the player's name was Jesus Shuttlesworth (played by Ray Allen)? Good Denzel movie.

[Gil Dobie]

I can't answer for Jesus, but some of us like basketball.

Speaking about Jesus and basketball, remember the movie "He Got Game" and the player's name was Jesus Shuttlesworth (played by Ray Allen)? Good Denzel movie.

Didn't see that one, but I remember this one.

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

In the NBA thread I said the Warriors wouldn't lose another game this season......

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Klay Thompson & Draymond Green are both excellent defenders. Andre Iguodala isn't bad himself.

And Steph Curry is the best defender on the team

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[Grizalltheway]

In the NBA thread I said the Warriors wouldn't lose another game this season......

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You did but.....

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

But what?

I have posted well before the playoffs started that even though NBA will do everything in it's power to get Queen James to the Finals again.......this year the 8 on 5 against the Warriors won't work.

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Even Allen Iverson never got swept TWICE IN THE NBA FINALS!

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[Gil Dobie]

But what?

I have posted well before the playoffs started that even though NBA will do everything in it's power to get Queen James to the Finals again.......this year the 8 on 5 against the Warriors won't work.

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One of the few times I remember Mauer reffing and Lebron losing, in the finals.

[Grizalltheway]

But what?

I have posted well before the playoffs started that even though NBA will do everything in it's power to get Queen James to the Finals again.......this year the 8 on 5 against the Warriors won't work.

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But they still have one more chance to lose. If not, good call.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

But what?

I have posted well before the playoffs started that even though NBA will do everything in it's power to get Queen James to the Finals again.......this year the 8 on 5 against the Warriors won't work.

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One of the few times I remember Mauer reffing and Lebron losing, in the finals.

It's obvious who the NBA and the refs want to help, hell it's a big part of why Queen James won any Championships but the refs are not enough to beat this year's Warriors.

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[Gil Dobie]

Looking for a sweep tonight and Alpha's gloating tomorrow.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

#LeBroom

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