The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

Linky please.

An old friend who lived in Kharkiv and got out and to Poland a week after it started.

Ah. The old, "my girlfriend is from Canada, you wouldn't know her". line. I'll raise you a girl from Luhansk.

[UNI88]

Just as "ethnic Russians that were treated very poorly by Ukrainians nationalists over the years", ethnic Mexicans have been treated very poorly by Americans over the years. If poor treatment of you ethnic relatives justifies an invasion then the US and a lot of other countries deserve to be invaded.

Is that a rules based order point and were we shelling Mexicans on the border?

Yuma and Cochise haven't tried to set up their own republics yet so no we're not shelling them.

Bottom line: this whole Ukraine was asking for it and Russia was justified argument is bullsh!t.

[houndawg]

An old friend who lived in Kharkiv and got out and to Poland a week after it started.

Ah. The old, "my girlfriend is from Canada, you wouldn't know her". line. I'll raise you a girl from Luhansk.

It jibes with what I saw of Russian civilians that were interviewed at the beginning of the invasion - there are a lot of Russians with ties to the Ukraine through family and marriage

[kalm]

An old friend who lived in Kharkiv and got out and to Poland a week after it started.

Ah. The old, "my girlfriend is from Canada, you wouldn't know her". line. I'll raise you a girl from Luhansk.

Sure go ahead.

He’s a former eastern coach and the Spokesman ran a series on their escape to Poland. It’s a crazy world when you’re talking over WhatsApp with a dude who’s watching RUS jets fly over head and bombs are going off within a few miles.

[SeattleGriz]

Is that a rules based order point and were we shelling Mexicans on the border?

Yuma and Cochise haven't tried to set up their own republics yet so no we're not shelling them.

Bottom line: this whole Ukraine was asking for it and Russia was justified argument is bullsh!t.

I don't think Ukraine deserved any of this. If I was to blame anyone, it would be the US and their constant betrayal of their "rules". Our State department kept poking the bear and now the Ukrainians are fucked as a result.

[SeattleGriz]

Ah. The old, "my girlfriend is from Canada, you wouldn't know her". line. I'll raise you a girl from Luhansk.

It jibes with what I saw of Russian civilians that were interviewed at the beginning of the invasion - there are a lot of Russians with ties to the Ukraine through family and marriage

You speak Russian?

[SeattleGriz]

Ah. The old, "my girlfriend is from Canada, you wouldn't know her". line. I'll raise you a girl from Luhansk.

Sure go ahead.

He’s a former eastern coach and the Spokesman ran a series on their escape to Poland. It’s a crazy world when you’re talking over WhatsApp with a dude who’s watching RUS jets fly over head and bombs are going off within a few miles.

She's totally hot.

[kalm]

Yuma and Cochise haven't tried to set up their own republics yet so no we're not shelling them.

Bottom line: this whole Ukraine was asking for it and Russia was justified argument is bullsh!t.

I don't think Ukraine deserved any of this. If I was to blame anyone, it would be the US and their constant betrayal of their "rules". Our State department kept poking the bear and now the Ukrainians are fucked as a result.

Yes…blame everyone except the master strategist who insured NATO will now advance after years of not expanding.

Nice look.

[SeattleGriz]

I don't think Ukraine deserved any of this. If I was to blame anyone, it would be the US and their constant betrayal of their "rules". Our State department kept poking the bear and now the Ukrainians are fucked as a result.

Yes…blame everyone except the master strategist who insured NATO will now advance after years of not expanding.

Nice look.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to all our former diplomats saying the same thing. We promised Russia NOT to expand NATO, but we did it anyway. Put missle launchers capable of nukes on his border, but yeah, it's all his fault.

Fuck the EU says Victoria Klam Nuland. Give CID a hug for me when you guys commiserate how the US had no hand in this issue.

[UNI88]

Yes…blame everyone except the master strategist who insured NATO will now advance after years of not expanding.

Nice look.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to all our former diplomats saying the same thing. We promised Russia NOT to expand NATO, but we did it anyway. Put missle launchers capable of nukes on his border, but yeah, it's all his fault.

Fuck the EU says Victoria Klam Nuland. Give CID a hug for me when you guys commiserate how the US had no hand in this issue.

We've made mistakes so it's not 100% Putin's fault. But ultimately he's the one that chose to ignore international law and other agreements and invade. He's responsible for that decision and it's consequences.

[SeattleGriz]

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to all our former diplomats saying the same thing. We promised Russia NOT to expand NATO, but we did it anyway. Put missle launchers capable of nukes on his border, but yeah, it's all his fault.

Fuck the EU says Victoria Klam Nuland. Give CID a hug for me when you guys commiserate how the US had no hand in this issue.

We've made mistakes so it's not 100% Putin's fault. But ultimately he's the one that chose to ignore international law and other agreements and invade. He's responsible for that decision and it's consequences.

I'd check that International Law thing. Why do you think Putin has been railing on the US rules based, I win you lose issue? Because he knows that NATO expanding military capability on his border allowed him to pre-empt military action by law.

On a slight segue, someone please tell me how we were able to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and kill thousands of civilians, but it was all okay?

[UNI88]

We've made mistakes so it's not 100% Putin's fault. But ultimately he's the one that chose to ignore international law and other agreements and invade. He's responsible for that decision and it's consequences.

I'd check that International Law thing. Why do you think Putin has been railing on the US rules based, I win you lose issue? Because he knows that NATO expanding military capability on his border allowed him to pre-empt military action by law.

On a slight segue, someone please tell me how we were able to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and kill thousands of civilians, but it was all okay?

How Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine Violates International Law

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine violates Article 2(4) of the UN Charter, a central tenet of the charter that requires UN member states to refrain from the “use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state.”

NATO expanding military capability on his border does not justify the invasion. In reality, his annexation of the Crimea gave NATO and Ukraine justifiable cause for concern.

Is Putin justified in calling the US hypocritical based on our actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya? Yes. Does that justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine? No. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Putin and Russia own the majority of the blame for their invasion of Ukraine.

[SeattleGriz]

I'd check that International Law thing. Why do you think Putin has been railing on the US rules based, I win you lose issue? Because he knows that NATO expanding military capability on his border allowed him to pre-empt military action by law.

On a slight segue, someone please tell me how we were able to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and kill thousands of civilians, but it was all okay?

How Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine Violates International Law

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine violates Article 2(4) of the UN Charter, a central tenet of the charter that requires UN member states to refrain from the “use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state.”

NATO expanding military capability on his border does not justify the invasion. In reality, his annexation of the Crimea gave NATO and Ukraine justifiable cause for concern.

Is Putin justified in calling the US hypocritical based on our actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya? Yes. Does that justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine? No. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Putin and Russia own the majority of the blame for their invasion of Ukraine.

Good post. Although I have read quite a few opinions stating Russia was within International Law.

On a separate note, do you see how the US says one thing and does another? I love the USA, but believe we've been run by dipshits like Hillary and her refund button for far too long. If you want rules, then we all need to follow them.

[houndawg]

It jibes with what I saw of Russian civilians that were interviewed at the beginning of the invasion - there are a lot of Russians with ties to the Ukraine through family and marriage

You speak Russian?

No, but the interviewer did

[SeattleGriz]

You speak Russian?

No, but the interviewer did

No, doesn't count. I posted a common sense link early on where the interviewers spoke both Russian and Ukraine AND were actually there interviewing people, and not in DC writing their articles, but it was deemed propaganda.

You are denied. Propaganda poster.

[houndawg]

We've made mistakes so it's not 100% Putin's fault. But ultimately he's the one that chose to ignore international law and other agreements and invade. He's responsible for that decision and it's consequences.

I'd check that International Law thing. Why do you think Putin has been railing on the US rules based, I win you lose issue? Because he knows that NATO expanding military capability on his border allowed him to pre-empt military action by law.

On a slight segue, someone please tell me how we were able to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and kill thousands of civilians, but it was all okay?

You must have still been on formula if you don't remember the outcry about us invading Iraq when we knew that bin Laden was in Afghanistan.

[SeattleGriz]

I'd check that International Law thing. Why do you think Putin has been railing on the US rules based, I win you lose issue? Because he knows that NATO expanding military capability on his border allowed him to pre-empt military action by law.

On a slight segue, someone please tell me how we were able to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and kill thousands of civilians, but it was all okay?

You must have still been on formula if you don't remember the outcry about us invading Iraq when we knew that bin Laden was in Afghanistan.

Outcry must have been really weak as we steamrolled Iraq and all those civilians.

Why no outcry about us making a promise not to encroach on Russia, but then lied and did it anyway?

I'm still on formula by the way.

[houndawg]

You must have still been on formula if you don't remember the outcry about us invading Iraq when we knew that bin Laden was in Afghanistan.

Outcry must have been really weak as we steamrolled Iraq and all those civilians.

Why no outcry about us making a promise not to encroach on Russia, but then lied and did it anyway?

I'm still on formula by the way.

Your assumption makes it clear that this happened before your time. We were 45 minutes from a mushroom cloud

(We didn't encroach on Russia, Russia invaded their neighbor )

[SeattleGriz]

Outcry must have been really weak as we steamrolled Iraq and all those civilians.

Why no outcry about us making a promise not to encroach on Russia, but then lied and did it anyway?

I'm still on formula by the way.

Your assumption makes it clear that this happened before your time. We were 45 minutes from a mushroom cloud

(We didn't encroach on Russia, Russia invaded their neighbor )

45 minutes from a mushroom cloud. Nice hyperbole.

And to your second point. We didn't give Russia our word after the fall of the USSR that we wouldn't expand NATO to their border and also place nuke launchers there as well?

Gawd. You're an awful hippie. And you're on formula!!

[UNI88]

Your assumption makes it clear that this happened before your time. We were 45 minutes from a mushroom cloud

(We didn't encroach on Russia, Russia invaded their neighbor )

45 minutes from a mushroom cloud. Nice hyperbole.

And to your second point. We didn't give Russia our word after the fall of the USSR that we wouldn't expand NATO to their border and also place nuke launchers there as well?

Gawd. You're an awful hippie. And you're on formula!!

Didn't Russia promise Ukraine back in 1994 that they would be safe from attack in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons? A promise the Russia reneged on when it annexed Crimea? Putin and the Russians are far from innocent and have brought on some of the encroachment with their own actions.

[SeattleGriz]

45 minutes from a mushroom cloud. Nice hyperbole.

And to your second point. We didn't give Russia our word after the fall of the USSR that we wouldn't expand NATO to their border and also place nuke launchers there as well?

Gawd. You're an awful hippie. And you're on formula!!

Didn't Russia promise Ukraine back in 1994 that they would be safe from attack in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons? A promise the Russia reneged on when it annexed Crimea? Putin and the Russians are far from innocent and have brought on some of the encroachment with their own actions.

Are you referring to the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances agreement?

[bobbythekidd]

SeaGriz! Go to bed, man. You are making yourself look bad. PWI (Posting While Intoxicated)

[kalm]

Yes…blame everyone except the master strategist who insured NATO will now advance after years of not expanding.

Nice look.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to all our former diplomats saying the same thing. We promised Russia NOT to expand NATO, but we did it anyway. Put missle launchers capable of nukes on his border, but yeah, it's all his fault.

Fuck the EU says Victoria Klam Nuland. Give CID a hug for me when you guys commiserate how the US had no hand in this issue.

I’d love to hear what our former diplomats are saying. Go ahead and post some examples.

It’s like two bullies squaring off. Bully B knows he’s much weaker and he must project strength. So he punches bully A’s kid brother who’s standing next to them and says “see? This is what you get for threatening my fists with your same fists.

Have you asked Sweden, Poland, the Baltic’s, Finland what they think? Has NATO been out quickly recruiting and approving new members for the past 20 years?

But I know…you’re just trolling or something.

[SeattleGriz]

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to all our former diplomats saying the same thing. We promised Russia NOT to expand NATO, but we did it anyway. Put missle launchers capable of nukes on his border, but yeah, it's all his fault.

Fuck the EU says Victoria Klam Nuland. Give CID a hug for me when you guys commiserate how the US had no hand in this issue.

I’d love to hear what our former diplomats are saying. Go ahead and post some examples.

It’s like two bullies squaring off. Bully B knows he’s much weaker and he must project strength. So he punches bully A’s kid brother who’s standing next to them and says “see? This is what you get for threatening my fists with your same fists.

Have you asked Sweden, Poland, the Baltic’s, Finland what they think? Has NATO been out quickly recruiting and approving new members for the past 20 years?

But I know…you’re just trolling or something.

I'm not trolling at all. I've simply realized the US has said they abide by a rules based order, but yet, refuse to follow the rules when put in the same situation.

Am I happy about that? Fuck no. I have two American flags tattooed on my ankle and hip for winning the US Military National Cycling Championships twice and being invited to the Olympic Training Center for those victories. I fucking bleed red, white and blue and am pissed we have asshats fucking things up for everyone.

If you can't get out of your tiny bias confirming box, that is not my issue. You need to expand your horizons and see what the rest of the World is saying in regards to this conflict. America has been a huge problem for years. I just bought the bullshit because I loved my country. No more.

And your deal about trying to shame me is horseshit.

[kalm]

I’d love to hear what our former diplomats are saying. Go ahead and post some examples.

It’s like two bullies squaring off. Bully B knows he’s much weaker and he must project strength. So he punches bully A’s kid brother who’s standing next to them and says “see? This is what you get for threatening my fists with your same fists.

Have you asked Sweden, Poland, the Baltic’s, Finland what they think? Has NATO been out quickly recruiting and approving new members for the past 20 years?

But I know…you’re just trolling or something.

I'm not trolling at all. I've simply realized the US has said they abide by a rules based order, but yet, refuse to follow the rules when put in the same situation.

Am I happy about that? Fuck no. I have two American flags tattooed on my ankle and hip for winning the US Military National Cycling Championships twice and being invited to the Olympic Training Center for those victories. I fucking bleed red, white and blue and am pissed we have asshats fucking things up for everyone.

If you can't get out of your tiny bias confirming box, that is not my issue. You need to expand your horizons and see what the rest of the World is saying in regards to this conflict. America has been a huge problem for years. I just bought the bullshit because I loved my country. No more.

And your deal about trying to shame me is horseshit.

Did I attack your service? No. Also not sure of the shaming you remark.

But if you are not trolling, then truly you need to find better sources. (Btw, noticing you didn’t produce what the former diplomats are saying). Now it’s the rest of world? Good god man.

Questioning US hypocrisy I’m fine with. I did it going back to Gulf War 1. I’m glad you are becoming aware of that now. It’s shitty.

But that is NOT the case here.

(I knew you were a cyclists but damn, that’s impressive)