Roe v Wade Anniversary

[89Hen]

If the law says an unborn child is a life, then why would the law legalize the murder of the unborn?

EXACTLY!

[Ibanez]

SOmething tells me that this contradiction isn't newly discovered.

[89Hen]

SOmething tells me that this contradiction isn't newly discovered.

It's not. It's simply ignored by the Pro-Choice side... like many other things.

[Grizalltheway]

First off, who's invading women's bodies? (besides Grizo?)

Secondly, do you believe the government has the right to invade the privacy of my home if my kid comes to school with evidence of abuse?

Finally, let me ask you another question... Why was Scott Peterson charged and convicted of two counts of murder?

Not surprising that nobody on the pro-choice side will answer these.

Was I a part of that fucking trial, Hen? The prosecutor was probably some abortion clinic bombing nut case who wanted to "prove" that abortion is murder by charging him with murder of the fetus.

By the same token, why won't any of you anti-choicers address how we're going to enforce the law once abortion is illegal?

[89Hen]

Was I a part of that **** trial, Hen? The prosecutor was probably some abortion clinic bombing nut case who wanted to "prove" that abortion is murder by charging him with murder of the fetus.

By the same token, why won't any of you anti-choicers address how we're going to enforce the law once abortion is illegal?

Calling the DA names isn't helping your position gatw. He was convicted of two counts... I guess the jury and judge were also abortion clinic bombing nut cases.

As for how to enforce, are you talking about all abortions or just ones where the mother's life is at stake? I've answered the latter at least twice in this thread. If you're talking about the other cases... I guess the same way you enforce any murder.

[JayJ79]

parasite: An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

I think you have your symbiotic relationships mixed up. What you're describing is commensalism. My kids had this in 6th grade, so it's fresh in my memory.

Point taken. Though it would appear that in biological discussions, commensal organisms are sometimes referred to as "commensal parasites" and "commensal hosts".

tangent: during my research, I happened across the medical anomaly of fetus in fetu, as demonstrated by this example, or described via wikipedia. In which case, that secondary fetus is often referred to as a parasite.

[Grizalltheway]

Was I a part of that **** trial, Hen? The prosecutor was probably some abortion clinic bombing nut case who wanted to "prove" that abortion is murder by charging him with murder of the fetus.

By the same token, why won't any of you anti-choicers address how we're going to enforce the law once abortion is illegal?

Calling the DA names isn't helping your position gatw. He was convicted of two counts... I guess the jury and judge were also abortion clinic bombing nut cases.

As for how to enforce, are you talking about all abortions or just ones where the mother's life is at stake? I've answered the latter at least twice in this thread. If you're talking about the other cases... I guess the same way you enforce any murder.

Great, I'm sure having a bunch of 17 year olds trying to do it with a coat hanger and a vacuum cleaner in their parents' garage will be a better situation than we have now.

[89Hen]

tangent: during my research, I happened across the medical anomaly of fetus in fetu, as demonstrated by this example, or described via wikipedia. In which case, that secondary fetus is often referred to as a parasite.

That's awful.

[89Hen]

Great, I'm sure having a bunch of 17 year olds trying to do it with a coat hanger and a vacuum cleaner in their parents' garage will be a better situation than we have now.

What about 17 year olds who die because they crack they smoke is bad for them. We should legalize crack so we can get a better product.

Faulty reasoning.

[JayJ79]

Why would you protect a child the day they are born, but not the day before? What magically happens on the day of birth that grants a baby the right to life? Does God reach down and grant them a soul as they leave the mother's womb? Do they suddenly become a sentient being the moment they hit our atmosphere?

Is that really any different than saying that something "magically" happens when the sperm punctures the egg?

[JayJ79]

tangent: during my research, I happened across the medical anomaly of fetus in fetu, as demonstrated by this example, or described via wikipedia. In which case, that secondary fetus is often referred to as a parasite.

That's awful.

He should be charged with murder, since he killed his twin.

[Appaholic]

Do they say when they can't have an abortion?

Yes. But read my response again.

So, assuming the mother doesn't "murder" the fetus, you're OK if she just disconnects & removes the fetus from her body?

[Appaholic]

Great, I'm sure having a bunch of 17 year olds trying to do it with a coat hanger and a vacuum cleaner in their parents' garage will be a better situation than we have now.

What about 17 year olds who die because they crack they smoke is bad for them. We should legalize crack so we can get a better product.

Faulty reasoning.

And I suppose you abhor any form of warfare & would refuse to participate since life is so precious?

[Appaholic]

That's awful.

He should be charged with murder, since he killed his twin.

Yep, because he's a person. We'll determine whether it was self-defense after labor....

[89Hen]

Is that really any different than saying that something "magically" happens when the sperm punctures the egg?

You might want to think about that one.

But as stated earlier in the thread (this is difficult with people jumping in mid-thread and not reading all the posts) the problem is that I can't tell you when life or a "person" begins. That's why IMO you have to err on the side of early. In an earlier post I said...

I think pretty much everyone agrees that killing a one day old child is murder. Agreed?

What about a baby that is one day from being born? I'd have to say 99.99% of people would agree to that (and leave out the "mother in jeopardy" clause because that's less than 1% of abortions). Agreed?

How about at 8 months? Still going to say well over 90% on board. Agreed?

So at what point is it not OK? I'm not in any position to make that call... are you?

[89Hen]

So, assuming the mother doesn't "murder" the fetus, you're OK if she just disconnects & removes the fetus from her body?

If done where it can live.

[89Hen]

And I suppose you abhor any form of warfare & would refuse to participate since life is so precious?

We've already covered war and self-defense at least 5 times.

[89Hen]

He should be charged with murder, since he killed his twin.

Borderline clever, but doesn't fit the definition of murder.

[Appaholic]

So, assuming the mother doesn't "murder" the fetus, you're OK if she just disconnects & removes the fetus from her body?

If done where it can live.

If that's your criteria, then yes, abortion laws are telling people what they can do with THEIR bodies....

[89Hen]

If done where it can live.

If that's your criteria, then yes, abortion laws are telling people what they can do with THEIR bodies....

They are telling them what they can't do to somebody else's body. There are two people involved here as evidenced by cases like Peterson's.

[Appaholic]

If that's your criteria, then yes, abortion laws are telling people what they can do with THEIR bodies....

They are telling them what they can't do to somebody else's body. There are two people involved here as evidenced by cases like Peterson's.

That's where we disagree. I don't think he should have been charged with double murder. It's inconsistent as there is no guarantee that the baby will be carried to full term & born alive. How many people involved in auto accidents are criminally charged with manslaughter if the woman they hit happens to have a miscarriage? Look Hen, I'm not going to convice you & you're not going to convince me. It can be argued that life is more precious to you than it is to me & personal liberty is more precious to me than it is to you. We'll agree to disagree. Peace.

[Ibanez]

If that's your criteria, then yes, abortion laws are telling people what they can do with THEIR bodies....

They are telling them what they can't do to somebody else's body. There are two people involved here as evidenced by cases like Peterson's.

But the fetus is part of the mother, so it's her body as well.

[Grizalltheway]

Great, I'm sure having a bunch of 17 year olds trying to do it with a coat hanger and a vacuum cleaner in their parents' garage will be a better situation than we have now.

What about 17 year olds who die because they crack they smoke is bad for them. We should legalize crack so we can get a better product.

Faulty reasoning.

No, just a poor, irrelevant analogy on your part. I think D1Boyee summed it up pretty well:

I just cannot imagine the utter horror of the prospect of a woman who, after registering her pregnancy with the state, then has her baby spontaneously aborted by god and then appearing in court in front of a fat fuck tyrant moralist/catholic shithead like 89 Hen or a fucking lifelong schoolyard ragdoll pussy dork like Joltin Joe, to save herself from prison.

[Ibanez]

What about 17 year olds who die because they crack they smoke is bad for them. We should legalize crack so we can get a better product.

Faulty reasoning.

No, just a poor, irrelevant analogy on your part. I think D1Boyee summed it up pretty well:

I just cannot imagine the utter horror of the prospect of a woman who, after registering her pregnancy with the state, then has her baby spontaneously aborted by god and then appearing in court in front of a fat fuck tyrant moralist/catholic shithead like 89 Hen or a fucking lifelong schoolyard ragdoll pussy dork like Joltin Joe, to save herself from prison.

I was unaware that those stereotypes existed soley in courts with proceedings of that nature.

[89Hen]

Look Hen, I'm not going to convice you & you're not going to convince me. It can be argued that life is more precious to you than it is to me & personal liberty is more precious to me than it is to you. We'll agree to disagree. Peace.

I don't expect either of us to convince each other, but I don't think you can argue that you hold personal liberty more precious than I do. You agrue that an unborn baby doesn't have any personal liberty.