Bye Bye Villanova?

[BDKJMU]

]
Maybe they'll end up with their 4 OOC games, only 1 home (usually a I-AA) and 3 away: @ Temple at the Linc (which will sort of be neutral) for the city championship (current series is called the "Mayor's Cup") and 2 at BCS for big payouts. Which would leave them 5 home and 7 away every year.

Would that remain UD? Sure it would guarantee a sellout of an expanded (I know I read somewhere it could be from 18.5 to 23k) PPL, but the maority of the crowd would be UD fans. Plus you often see a reluctance on the part of a BCS, especially a mediocre or lesser one, to take on the local or in state I-AA power. Little to gain, too much to lose.

[89Hen]

I'm just wondering how Nova makes $ on this. On the one hand they will have the
-Big East TV and share of Bowl revenue

You answered your own question.

[89Hen]

I think that this will be a major failure for Nova if they decide to do this. I don't see any way that this can be successful.

I don't know about major, but yes, a failure looms.

[BDKJMU]

I'm just wondering how Nova makes $ on this. On the one hand they will have the
-Big East TV and share of Bowl revenue

You answered your own question.

Yeah but is that enough to overcome the massive losses on the other side of the coin that I mentioned? After all, the Big East revenue I would imagine is the smallest of the 6 BCS conferences. Aren't there other BCS teams that are in the red every year? Literally, Nova could be in the worse situation of any of the 66 soon to be 68 BCS teams. I think the question is do they lose less $ annually in the Big East than they do in the CAA?

[Skjellyfetti]

I think the question is do they lose less $ annually in the Big East than they do in the CAA?

They will probably lose more in the Big East. But, if they decide to move up... they would have looked at the numbers and decided it's worth it to them to play BCS football.

[BDKJMU]

I think the question is do they lose less $ annually in the Big East than they do in the CAA?

They will probably lose more in the Big East. But, if they decide to move up... they would have looked at the numbers and decided it's worth it to them to play BCS football.

I highly doubt they'll think, "We'll lose even more $ moving up, but let's do it anyway." They're going to make the decision to do what they think will either make them the most or the more likely case of lose them the least financially. Its all about the benjamins.

[Skjellyfetti]

They're going to make the decision to do what they think will either make them the most or the more likely case of lose them the least financially.

Then they'll decide to drop scholarship football.

Its all about the benjamins.

No it's not. Much more goes into it. Exposure for a university is a big deal. It affects every part of the University... not just athletics. The jump in exposure from an FCS to a BCS conference is HUGE and it's hard to put a value on that in dollars... or "benjamins"...

[JBB]

Is a 10,000 seat expansion of the Fargo Dome possible or would they need to build a new stadium?

Anything is possible with enough $$, but I think it would cost less to just build a new place. It's not like acquiring 10 acres would be tough to do in Fargo - its not the SF Bay area.

This was talked about during the move up discussions. The Fabulous Fargo Dome was originally designed to have second deck capabilities of 10,000, bringing total potential seating to near 30,000. The mayor at the time & NDSU econ prof, uber liberal Jon Lingren, was fighting the stadium and only wanted 10,000 seats total. The second deck was given up for the compromise configuration we have today. It looked for years like he was right, but he is wrong now.

In order to put on the second deck you have to raise the roof. That requires a new super structure to be built around the current stadium to support it and the second deck. Further expansion would have to be done to reconstruct the concourse and the roof has to be modified or replaced to cover the greater area underneath. It doesnt make sense, unless you put a huge premium on having a roof. A 30,000 outdoor stadium of some kind with expansion capabilities is probably a better alternative.

The FFD will have to become a hockey facility when a new stadium becomes a necessity.

[JBB]

You answered your own question.

Yeah but is that enough to overcome the massive losses on the other side of the coin that I mentioned? After all, the Big East revenue I would imagine is the smallest of the 6 BCS conferences. Aren't there other BCS teams that are in the red every year? Literally, Nova could be in the worse situation of any of the 66 soon to be 68 BCS teams. I think the question is do they lose less $ annually in the Big East than they do in the CAA?

LIke I was saying at the begining of the thread: what is their motivation. Im not sure its all perfectly clear either.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Anything is possible with enough $$, but I think it would cost less to just build a new place. It's not like acquiring 10 acres would be tough to do in Fargo - its not the SF Bay area.

This was talked about during the move up discussions. The Fabulous Fargo Dome was originally designed to have second deck capabilities of 10,000, bringing total potential seating to near 30,000. The mayor at the time & NDSU econ prof, uber liberal Jon Lingren, was fighting the stadium and only wanted 10,000 seats total. The second deck was given up for the compromise configuration we have today. It looked for years like he was right, but he is wrong now.

In order to put on the second deck you have to raise the roof. That requires a new super structure to be built around the current stadium to support it and the second deck. Further expansion would have to be done to reconstruct the concourse and the roof has to be modified or replaced to cover the greater area underneath. It doesnt make sense, unless you put a huge premium on having a roof. A 30,000 outdoor stadium of some kind with expansion capabilities is probably a better alternative.

The FFD will have to become a hockey facility when a new stadium becomes a necessity.

That professor made more sense than you do, chief. while 10k was a bit low... it's a damn sight better than 30k

we can't fill the dome NOW at 19k capacity... as it is if the dome is full 10% of the population of greater F-M is in there...

in the four years i was at NDSU I recall exactly 2 sellouts... both involved the school down river. even with the increase in attendance for D-I football... we still don't sell it out...

think about it - at 19,000 capacity the Dome - when full, is the 6th largest city in the state. at 30k... the 5th
there are only 672,000 residents in the damn state... you're theorizing that there would be demand for 5% of the state to show up every Saturday... (forget the fact that at least half the state are fans of the other team and many others just don't care)

[SeattleGriz]

Good Bye you effin pussies. Who the hell do you think you are W Kentucky?

[FargoBison]

The only way NDSU ever goes FBS is if the other MVFC schools want to do it and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[bluehenbillk]

I think 'Nova has painted themselves into a corner where they have no choice BUT to move up. They lose money hand over foot in FCS - they can try to siphon as much BCS money from the Big East as they can & they can get maybe 2 good paydays per year playing Homecoming fodder for teams. Their ticket revenue will be non-existent, no to little premium seating options, limited capacity & they have to pay a rental on top of that for of all places - Chester, PA.

The only other option I see is they say no - in which case they'd be either a non-scholarship program or gone the way of Hofstra & N'Eastern within 5 years.

[SloStang]

Anything is possible with enough $$, but I think it would cost less to just build a new place. It's not like acquiring 10 acres would be tough to do in Fargo - its not the SF Bay area.

This was talked about during the move up discussions. The Fabulous Fargo Dome was originally designed to have second deck capabilities of 10,000, bringing total potential seating to near 30,000. The mayor at the time & NDSU econ prof, uber liberal Jon Lingren, was fighting the stadium and only wanted 10,000 seats total. The second deck was given up for the compromise configuration we have today. It looked for years like he was right, but he is wrong now.

In order to put on the second deck you have to raise the roof. That requires a new super structure to be built around the current stadium to support it and the second deck. Further expansion would have to be done to reconstruct the concourse and the roof has to be modified or replaced to cover the greater area underneath. It doesnt make sense, unless you put a huge premium on having a roof. A 30,000 outdoor stadium of some kind with expansion capabilities is probably a better alternative.

The FFD will have to become a hockey facility when a new stadium becomes a necessity.

While I think that moving outside would give NDSU a HUGE home field advantage I think it may have an effect on attendance. The hard core fans will still go, but will the more casual fan go to a game outside in very cold weather? Any chance instead of a new outdoor stadium the would consider a new larger domed stadium?

[GannonFan]

]
Maybe they'll end up with their 4 OOC games, only 1 home (usually a I-AA) and 3 away: @ Temple at the Linc (which will sort of be neutral) for the city championship (current series is called the "Mayor's Cup") and 2 at BCS for big payouts. Which would leave them 5 home and 7 away every year.

Would that remain UD? Sure it would guarantee a sellout of an expanded (I know I read somewhere it could be from 18.5 to 23k) PPL, but the maority of the crowd would be UD fans. Plus you often see a reluctance on the part of a BCS, especially a mediocre or lesser one, to take on the local or in state I-AA power. Little to gain, too much to lose.

It's really hard to see a way that the UD/nova series continues. The smallest payday that UD takes from an FBS game is the Navy series, and it's reported that Navy pays UD about $250k for that series. Is nova going to be able to afford to pay a team $250k to play? And even at that rate, UD is losing money versus what they would make themselves with a home game against anyone (UD makes at least $350k per home game). With bigger paydays out there against other teams (Maryland, Pitt, etc) and bigger paydays at home, nova basically can't afford to pay UD what they would have to to continue the series.

I see nova taking the same route that Rutgers has in terms of scheduling - Rutgers doesn't schedule CAA teams anymore, and can't schedule Patriot or NEC teams because they wouldn't serve as counters for bowl purposes. So basically, Rutgers is on a tour of the MEAC conference, having played Howard, Morgan St, and Norfolk St, with a non-MEAC like Texas Southern thrown in there as well. I don't think nova would have the financial resources to buy a consistent home game, year in and year out, against anyone other than that level of team. And even then, they might play that game on campus rather than having to pay rent in Chester for that game.

And what's odd is that this is what did in nova in the first place when they dropped football initially - they could schedule big time teams to come in to play. They'll get the advantage this time of getting Big East teams to have to come to play conference games, so that's a plus, but OOC they'll play a worse FCS team than is currently on the schedule and they'll play the other games on the road (or Temple at the Linc). They better hope the Big East stays around as a football entity.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

This was talked about during the move up discussions. The Fabulous Fargo Dome was originally designed to have second deck capabilities of 10,000, bringing total potential seating to near 30,000. The mayor at the time & NDSU econ prof, uber liberal Jon Lingren, was fighting the stadium and only wanted 10,000 seats total. The second deck was given up for the compromise configuration we have today. It looked for years like he was right, but he is wrong now.

In order to put on the second deck you have to raise the roof. That requires a new super structure to be built around the current stadium to support it and the second deck. Further expansion would have to be done to reconstruct the concourse and the roof has to be modified or replaced to cover the greater area underneath. It doesnt make sense, unless you put a huge premium on having a roof. A 30,000 outdoor stadium of some kind with expansion capabilities is probably a better alternative.

The FFD will have to become a hockey facility when a new stadium becomes a necessity.

While I think that moving outside would give NDSU a HUGE home field advantage I think it may have an effect on attendance. The hard core fans will still go, but will the more casual fan go to a game outside in very cold weather? Any chance instead of a new outdoor stadium the would consider a new larger domed stadium?

the cost of such a thing would be unbearable by the school... as it is, they can't get the money together to build an 8,000 seat basketball arena... and while football is more popular... what it all boils down to is - there aren't enough people up there to support any of what jbb is talking about.

[JBB]

Fn idiot TTB. If you cant be civil you cant be respected. The following post reflects my lack of respect for you:

The potential was to be built into the dome so it could be expanded when needed. It was a very cost effective plan for future growth, similar to the hockey potential they did build in. We are close to outgrowing the dome now. There is no way to expand it so it is very close to obsolescence because it is going to end up being too small before it reaches the end of its useful life. Do you look as stupid as you write chief.

You cant figure out whats going on now TTB so how in the world can you claim any insights into the future? Right now the FFD is both a great asset and a roadblock toward future growth. Look at Fargo when the Dome was built and look at it now. NDSU itself is about 50% larger. Only an uber idiot would ignore what's been going on around them while trying to look into the future.

NDSU is in a fast growing market and is a fast growing university. Expect enrollments of 20,000 within the next 10 years.

Unfortunately the FFD is not going to be adequate for any FBS move if the opportunity should present itself. Its just not big enough. Remember a large part of an FBS move would be the OOC home games. Its very likely we could see Minnesota, Iowa state and the Kansas schools up here. You will need 30,000 for that. FBS would also increase our overall attendance just like the move to FCS did.

Wyoming has a great set-up. That would be a perfect future for NDSU.

As far as paying for it? The Dome Authority has kept its powder dry by staying out of the basketball arena. I think NDSU has a long term plan for a new outdoor stadium and converting the FFD for NDSU hockey.

I have no idea how any of this relates to Nova. I dont think they have the best stadium situation and like some others I am curious what the big deal is for them.

[JBB]

An outside stadium could use sheltered and heated seating areas just as we see at the new twins and Gopher stadiums. The FFD resulted in a large avg attendance increase because the older demographic that didnt show up for the late season games and old Dacotah Field now didnt mind late season games inside. Its a consideration to be sure.

[DJH]

Fn idiot TTB. If you cant be civil you cant be respected. The following post reflects my lack of respect for you:

The potential was to be built into the dome so it could be expanded when needed. It was a very cost effective plan for future growth, similar to the hockey potential they did build in. We are close to outgrowing the dome now. There is no way to expand it so it is very close to obsolescence because it is going to end up being too small before it reaches the end of its useful life. Do you look as stupid as you write chief.

You cant figure out whats going on now TTB so how in the world can you claim any insights into the future? Right now the FFD is both a great asset and a roadblock toward future growth. Look at Fargo when the Dome was built and look at it now. NDSU itself is about 50% larger. Only an uber idiot would ignore what's been going on around them while trying to look into the future.

NDSU is in a fast growing market and is a fast growing university. Expect enrollments of 20,000 within the next 10 years.

Unfortunately the FFD is not going to be adequate for any FBS move if the opportunity should present itself. Its just not big enough. Remember a large part of an FBS move would be the OOC home games. Its very likely we could see Minnesota, Iowa state and the Kansas schools up here. You will need 30,000 for that. FBS would also increase our overall attendance just like the move to FCS did.

Wyoming has a great set-up. That would be a perfect future for NDSU.

As far as paying for it? The Dome Authority has kept its powder dry by staying out of the basketball arena. I think NDSU has a long term plan for a new outdoor stadium and converting the FFD for NDSU hockey.

I have no idea how any of this relates to Nova. I dont think they have the best stadium situation and like some others I am curious what the big deal is for them.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[mainejeff]

They better hope the Big East stays around as a football entity.

Much like Delaware better hope that the CAA stays around as a football entity?

You Delaware fans are a hoot......putting on brave faces about the possibility of losing your biggest football rival.

[93henfan]

They better hope the Big East stays around as a football entity.

Much like Delaware better hope that the CAA stays around as a football entity?

You Delaware fans are a hoot......putting on brave faces about the possibility of losing your biggest football rival.

WELCOME BACK, MOTHERFUCKER!

[Mike Johnson]

The current difference in athletics financing between Villanova and the rest of the Big East football schools:

Villanova
Revenues (football, overall): $5,228,231 $27,688,127
Expenses (football, overall): $5,228,231 $27,688,127

Rutgers
Revenues (football, overall): $19,494,261 $55,564,642
Expenses (football, overall): $19,494,263 $55,564,642

Syracuse University
Revenues (football, overall): $19,152,691 $49,342,459
Expenses (football, overall): $15,300,740 $49,342,459

University of Cincinnati
Revenues (football, overall): $13,325,304 $37,101,542
Expenses (football, overall): $11,599,780 $37,101,542

University of Connecticut
Revenues (football, overall): $14,400,371 $58,482,290
Expenses (football, overall): $14,400,371 $58,379,091

University of Louisville
Revenues (football, overall): $15,537,276 $63,487,394
Expenses (football, overall): $12,222,307 $61,257,744

University of Pittsburgh
Revenues (football, overall): $22,513,336 $49,218,556
Expenses (football, overall): $17,441,032 $49,218,556

University of South Florida
Revenues (football, overall): $16,562,391 $39,190,939
Expenses (football, overall): $12,177,182 $39,088,660

West Virginia University
Revenues (football, overall): $29,467,612 $62,030,104
Expenses (football, overall): $14,330,236 $56,607,917

Texas Christian University
Revenues (football, overall): $20,609,361 $52,405,010
Expenses (football, overall): $20,609,361 $52,405,010

[Mike Johnson]

The 2 other teams that went straight from I-AA to BCS enrollments), both to the Big East:
-Uconn:public university, state flagship school with an enrollement of about 28k, had a $91 million (in 93') stadium built, paid for mostly by the state of CT,
-USF: public university, enrollment about 47k, had an NFL stadium to use, is in college football crazed FL.

South Florida started football in 1997 and spent four years as an FCS independent, before beginning play in the FBS in 2001. It was a member of C-USA for 2 years before it joined the Big East.

I believe UConn remains the only football program to move from FCS to a BCS conference. And like Villanova, UConn was part of the Big East in other sports.

[SloStang]

Fn idiot TTB. If you cant be civil you cant be respected. The following post reflects my lack of respect for you:

The potential was to be built into the dome so it could be expanded when needed. It was a very cost effective plan for future growth, similar to the hockey potential they did build in. We are close to outgrowing the dome now. There is no way to expand it so it is very close to obsolescence because it is going to end up being too small before it reaches the end of its useful life. Do you look as stupid as you write chief.

You cant figure out whats going on now TTB so how in the world can you claim any insights into the future? Right now the FFD is both a great asset and a roadblock toward future growth. Look at Fargo when the Dome was built and look at it now. NDSU itself is about 50% larger. Only an uber idiot would ignore what's been going on around them while trying to look into the future.

NDSU is in a fast growing market and is a fast growing university. Expect enrollments of 20,000 within the next 10 years.

Unfortunately the FFD is not going to be adequate for any FBS move if the opportunity should present itself. Its just not big enough. Remember a large part of an FBS move would be the OOC home games. Its very likely we could see Minnesota, Iowa state and the Kansas schools up here. You will need 30,000 for that. FBS would also increase our overall attendance just like the move to FCS did.

Wyoming has a great set-up. That would be a perfect future for NDSU.

As far as paying for it? The Dome Authority has kept its powder dry by staying out of the basketball arena. I think NDSU has a long term plan for a new outdoor stadium and converting the FFD for NDSU hockey.

I have no idea how any of this relates to Nova. I dont think they have the best stadium situation and like some others I am curious what the big deal is for them.

Sounds like you are a little intolerant of others views and respond with insults and name calling.

[Sly Fox]

First of all, is there a need for all of the hate in this thread? If Nova wants to try its hand at Big East football then by all means they should be given well wishes so the rest of us can move right along.

The jealousy-tinged vitriol being spewed at Villanova gives this thread a stink.

Is this a wise economic move for Villanova? Probably not.

Will any of the rest of us suffer the consequences if they fall on their faces? Probably not.

Live & let live.