Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by YoUDeeMan »

TwinTownBisonFan wrote: you're the one making this about race. you're the one reading too much in to my statements. my comment about their objection as to WHO was spending was about the letter that followed their name. my point was that their "passionate commitment to lower spending" cropped up right about the time the occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania changed hands - and not a minute sooner.

I'd believe a word of what you say about "plenty of people objecting" if even a few of them did... but they didn't.

the tea party absolutely, without a doubt IS angry white people... you don't see a whole lot of diversity there. that's a fact. what they are angry about is entirely debatable, and reasonable people can disagree... i'm simply pointing out that if the deficit was really what had them all fired up... they sure had a funny way of not showing it during the last four years of the Bush administration - and during the GOP primary in 2008.
:rofl:

You can't be serious. Do you bother to read your own posts? YOU continue to make this about race, in this thread and others..no one else bothered to put the word "white" into this conversation. That fact that you've brought up skin color on several threads indicates it is important to you.

You are the bigot with the narrow mind. No gettting around that. :tothehand:
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by BDKJMU »

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
Rob Iola wrote: They're pissed about the deficit and out-of-control government spending. Personally, they perceive that their tax dollars are being misspent, and they're voicing their opinion, loudly, that spending should be cut, not increased.

And you want disdain? I disdain teachers who walk off their jobs, often with their students in tow, to protest. I'd be fired if I ever pulled a stunt like that. As they should be, like the air traffic controllers were under Reagan. I also disdain elected lawmakers who walk off their jobs and abandon their constituents (and families) because they don't like being in the minority and watching the majority establish policy.

Now if you'd truly like to see an unruly mob of (mainly) angry white people who are pissed about, well they don't know just what they're pissed about, I invite you to come to DC for the next World Bank/IMF conference - apparently "globalization" is bad, whatever that is...
BULL. ****. If that were the case, we'd have seen them in the Bush years. This "movement" is nothing more a bunch of angry GOPer base members bitching through a new outlet that they lost in 08. Even THEY don't know what they're abour.
You want to compare Bush's fiscal irresponsibility to Obama's? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Thats like comparing a person that is 10 lbs overweight to another that is 100 lbs overweight.

-Bush started irresponsible bailouts in his last 3 months in office. Obama continued them, and accelerated them.
-Bush passed a 152 billion stimulus turd. Obama trumped that with a 862 billion stimulus turd.
-Bush increased discretionary non security spending too much. Obama increased it even faster, 24% in his 1st 2 years.
-Obamacare
-Bush in his last year had a 450 billion deficit. Obama had a deficit over 1.4 trillion in his 1st year and again in his 2nd yr.

Obama took Bush's fiscal irresponsibility and raised it to a whole another level.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by dbackjon »

BDKJMU wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
BULL. ****. If that were the case, we'd have seen them in the Bush years. This "movement" is nothing more a bunch of angry GOPer base members bitching through a new outlet that they lost in 08. Even THEY don't know what they're abour.
You want to compare Bush's fiscal irresponsibility to Obama's? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Thats like comparing a person that is 10 lbs overweight to another that is 100 lbs overweight.

-Bush started irresponsible bailouts in his last 3 months in office. Obama continued them, and accelerated them.
-Bush passed a 152 billion stimulus turd. Obama trumped that with a 862 billion stimulus turd.
-Bush increased discretionary non security spending too much. Obama increased it even faster, 24% in his 1st 2 years.
-Obamacare
-Bush in his last year had a 450 billion deficit. Obama had a deficit over 1.4 trillion in his 1st year and again in his 2nd yr.

Obama took Bush's fiscal irresponsibility and raised it to a whole another level.

you need to credit Bush with the 1.2 trillion his war is costing.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
BULL. ****. If that were the case, we'd have seen them in the Bush years. This "movement" is nothing more a bunch of angry GOPer base members bitching through a new outlet that they lost in 08. Even THEY don't know what they're abour.
You want to compare Bush's fiscal irresponsibility to Obama's? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Thats like comparing a person that is 10 lbs overweight to another that is 100 lbs overweight.

-Bush started irresponsible bailouts in his last 3 months in office. Obama continued them, and accelerated them.
-Bush passed a 152 billion stimulus turd. Obama trumped that with a 862 billion stimulus turd.
-Bush increased discretionary non security spending too much. Obama increased it even faster, 24% in his 1st 2 years.
-Obamacare
-Bush in his last year had a 450 billion deficit. Obama had a deficit over 1.4 trillion in his 1st year and again in his 2nd yr.

Obama took Bush's fiscal irresponsibility and raised it to a whole another level.
How much Obama's irresponsibility do attribute to cleaning up Bush's mess?

What was Bush's excuse?
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by BDKJMU »

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:Why those candidates? because out parties nominate flame-throwers... it makes the base feel good viscerally the same way base Dems rallied around Dean in the summer of '03. Out-parties blame their parties establishment for losses and they toss them for higher-energy, red meat feeders...

as for your other question... "angry taxpayers" is exactly my point. the tea party is filled to brimming with ignorant ******* going on and on about Obama on taxes... yet he's CUT taxes - and taxes are now lower than they've been in 50 years... it's that level of divorced-from-reality, hysterical and completely irrational rage that causes me to quote Taibbi that they are "full of ****, all of them."

my point is this - far too many observers have convinced themselves that 2010 was the year of the tea party and that these people were somehow ascendant... truth be told, 2010 was the year the democrats stayed home and the GOP base turned out... not surprising in an off year when the GOP had just lost their shirt two years before.

as for running campaigns... i'm out. 2010 was my last cycle, I'm casting my career net in other waters. (not for political reasons frankly, but because you can't do this **** forever - and the lack of job security sucks eggs)
-Obama campaigned on having a massive tax increase.

Obamacare is full of massive tax increases:
-Individual Mandate Excise Tax(Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following(see chart):

-Employer Mandate Tax(Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. This provision applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer).
Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion/10 years

Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): This increase involves the creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income (see chart):

-Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans($32 bil/Jan 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on “Cadillac” health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). For early retirees and high-risk professions exists a higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family). CPI +1 percentage point indexed.

-Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax($86.8 bil/Jan 2013): Current law and changes (see chart):

-Medicine Cabinet Tax($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin)

-HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.

-Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka“Special Needs Kids Tax”($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited). . There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education.

-Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exemptions include items retailing for less than $100.

-Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI; it is waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only.

-Tax on Indoor Tanning Services($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons

-Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D($4.5 bil/Jan 2013)

-Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services

-Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals(Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS

-Tax on Innovator Drug Companies($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year.

-Tax on Health Insurers($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. The stipulation phases in gradually until 2018, and is fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits.

-$500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives($0.6 bil/Jan 2013)

-Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2(Min$/Jan 2011): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns.

-Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting($17.1 bil/Jan 2012): Requires businesses to send 1099-MISC information tax forms to corporations (currently limited to individuals), a huge compliance burden for small employers (Congress just voted to repeal this one)

-“Black liquor” tax hike(Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel.

-Codification of the “economic substance doctrine”(Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks “substance” and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed.
http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-list-t ... care-a5758" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now AFTER the donks gots their asses kicked in Nov Obama signed a bill to keeps income tax rates the SAME. Idiots in the media kept calling it a tax cut- it wasn't. And if the Republicans hadn't taken over the House it instead would have been a massive across the board tax increase in Jan.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by dbackjon »

Everything in the list is reasonable.

We need to pay for what we spent. Hell, we need tax hikes just to pay for the Military.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by Ivytalk »

BDKJMU wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote: -“Black liquor” tax hike(Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by kalm »

dbackjon wrote:Everything in the list is reasonable.

We need to pay for what we spent. Hell, we need tax hikes just to pay for the Military.
This is why most conks and tea baggers fail miserably at fiscal responsibility. The reality is that all of us, from the welfare queen mom to Exxon benefit from certain types of government spending making any meaningful cuts pretty difficult.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by Grizalltheway »

Ivytalk wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Colt 45? Night Train? :?
:rofl: :rofl:

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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by Rob Iola »

dbackjon wrote:Everything in the list is reasonable.

We need to pay for what we spent. Hell, we need tax hikes just to pay for the Military.
Agreed - we need to pay for what we spend, and (I would add) spend what we can afford.

The issue in this thread is that TTBF's logic completely falls apart - he complains about white people protesting, and then plays the racism card. He claims that Obama actually cut taxes when it's pretty clear that he's raised taxes - and not nearly enough, as he needs to remove the healthcare tax deduction if he wants healthcare reform to cut the deficit - which of course he won't do because the unions have the cadillac plans that would be taxed. And he "disdains" conk protesters, who have one view on deficit reduction and demonstrate accordingly (what's so hard to understand?), while supporting teachers who abandon their classrooms and senators who abandon their state.

Dems hated Bush - understood, and you voted him out. That's the way our society works. You had a supermajority at the Federal level and in most states for 2 years, and the pendulum swung. The subsequent Union/Dem reaction has been breathtakingly immature.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by SuperHornet »

Uh, the Donkeys did NOT vote Bush out. He was termed out.

Or are you falling in Obama's trap of McCain being Bush in disguise?
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by Rob Iola »

SuperHornet wrote:Uh, the Donkeys did NOT vote Bush out. He was termed out.

Or are you falling in Obama's trap of McCain being Bush in disguise?
You're quite right - my mistake - I was referring to the '08 tidal wave of voter disgust against Bush, the GOP, and anything remotely looking like his policies. In many instances by Republicans...

Look, Iraq sucks, Afghanistan sucks, the economy sucks, terrorism sucks, etc etc etc - voters blamed Bush and voted Democrat in '08, then blamed Obama and voted Republican in '10. If Walker, Christie, and others overreach now, or if the economy recovers, then Obama will win big in '12. Otherwise, if the Conks run someone other than Palin, then they'll win in '12.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by SuperHornet »

That depends, Iola.

I really think Sarah could beat ANYONE who might come out of the Donkey shed. And I think there are reasonable alternatives to Sarah that could at least be competitive against any Democrat.

Except one. And it ain't Obama, who is probably one and done.

Sarah's main problem (well, ANY Republican's problem) is that NOW will probably NEVER support a Republican. But they WILL support Miss "It Takes a Village."

That's the one person that is still a problem for Republicans. Obama's proven himself incapable of handling the office, so he's done. The Democrat's only hope is to defeat him in the primary with the one sure-fire Republican-killer left.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by Grizalltheway »

SuperHornet wrote:That depends, Iola.

I really think Sarah could beat ANYONE who might come out of the Donkey shed. And I think there are reasonable alternatives to Sarah that could at least be competitive against any Democrat.

Except one. And it ain't Obama, who is probably one and done.

Sarah's main problem (well, ANY Republican's problem) is that NOW will probably NEVER support a Republican. But they WILL support Miss "It Takes a Village."

That's the one person that is still a problem for Republicans. Obama's proven himself incapable of handling the office, so he's done. The Democrat's only hope is to defeat him in the primary with the one sure-fire Republican-killer left.
Wow..you continue to demonstrate just how out of touch with reality you really are... :shock:
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by SuperHornet »

Yeah, I guess I'm out of touch with GATW's version of "reality."

I know PLENTY of people who feel the same way I do.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by TwinTownBisonFan »

Rob Iola wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Everything in the list is reasonable.

We need to pay for what we spent. Hell, we need tax hikes just to pay for the Military.
Agreed - we need to pay for what we spend, and (I would add) spend what we can afford.

The issue in this thread is that TTBF's logic completely falls apart - he complains about white people protesting, and then plays the racism card. He claims that Obama actually cut taxes when it's pretty clear that he's raised taxes - and not nearly enough, as he needs to remove the healthcare tax deduction if he wants healthcare reform to cut the deficit - which of course he won't do because the unions have the cadillac plans that would be taxed. And he "disdains" conk protesters, who have one view on deficit reduction and demonstrate accordingly (what's so hard to understand?), while supporting teachers who abandon their classrooms and senators who abandon their state.

Dems hated Bush - understood, and you voted him out. That's the way our society works. You had a supermajority at the Federal level and in most states for 2 years, and the pendulum swung. The subsequent Union/Dem reaction has been breathtakingly immature.
here again - i'm not "playing the racism card" - I'm pointing out that the tea party is an irrational and nonsensical political movement. they exist as an extension of the gop and nothing more. their anger over "out of control spending" cropped up the day the guy spending the money stopped being an (R) and became a (D) - not a coincidence.

I'm pointing out that Obama HAS cut taxes - on middle income earners. that happened. yes there, are taxes involved in the health care bill, none of which has gone in to effect by the way - but the screaming and foaming at the mouth from the tea party came long before any of that.

as for the last point - i have disdain for teabaggers because there is so much to disdain. their anger is as blind as the fringe left's was about Bush. (there was plenty to hate about Bush, plenty to be angry about... but their screaming about "Ohio" and "Diebold machines" and the like is what I'm talking about, and what I'm comparing them to)

The difference between the tea party and the protesters in Wisconsin is simple - not once do you hear the tea party talking about reasonable compromise... given that the unions are asking that their right to bargain collectively be respected, in exchange for wage and benefit concessions - and are being met by a middle finger... there's a hell of a difference between the two.

(and we had a majority - we never had 2/3's of the house or the senate)
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by TwinTownBisonFan »

SuperHornet wrote:Yeah, I guess I'm out of touch with GATW's version of "reality."

I know PLENTY of people who feel the same way I do.
yeah - they're the voices in your head...

some knowledge for ya:

Sarah Palin has unfavorables so high among general election voters that it's hard believe.

Obama is not in nearly as bad a position as you'd like to think. In many ways he's in a better position than Clinton was in early 95... that's not to say it will improve like Clinton's... just saying that he's not as unpopular as you'd think.

Among the Dem base, he's still our guy. We don't love everything - but he's our guy.

as for the influence of NOW... smh... they're hardly relevant. they certainly aren't the reason Sarah Palin is unpopular with women (Sarah Palin is the reason Sarah Palin is unpopular with women)
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by YoUDeeMan »

TwinTownBisonFan wrote: here again - i'm not "playing the racism card" - I'm pointing out that the tea party is an irrational and nonsensical political movement. they exist as an extension of the gop and nothing more.
TwinTownBigotFan - nice backpeddle.

Gosh, I wonder how hard it was for you to write that without including the words "angry whites"? :kisswink:
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by Ivytalk »

Grizalltheway wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
Colt 45? Night Train? :?
:rofl: :rofl:

Paging TJ!
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by SuperHornet »

"High unfavorables"? What the heck does that even mean? I don't know a single female outside of possibly my Democratic-leaning mother who doesn't like Sarah Palin. I even know Democratic women who like her (even if they won't vote for her). You make it sound like women everywhere wake up every day with the sole goal of trashing her name. I just don't see it (outside of MSM).
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by kalm »

SuperHornet wrote:"High unfavorables"? What the heck does that even mean? I don't know a single female outside of possibly my Democratic-leaning mother who doesn't like Sarah Palin. I even know Democratic women who like her (even if they won't vote for her). You make it sound like women everywhere wake up every day with the sole goal of trashing her name. I just don't see it (outside of MSM).
My experience is the oppoite. Every semi-rational conk and chick I know can't stand her because she sets both of their causes back a long way.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by 89Hen »

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:i have disdain for teabaggers because there is so much to disdain. their anger is as blind as the fringe left's was about Bush. (there was plenty to hate about Bush, plenty to be angry about... but their screaming about "Ohio" and "Diebold machines" and the like is what I'm talking about, and what I'm comparing them to)
You make it sound as if hatred of Bush was limited to the "fringe". I can tell you around here that the most disturbing hatred came from your run of mill liberal.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by SuperHornet »

89Hen wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote:i have disdain for teabaggers because there is so much to disdain. their anger is as blind as the fringe left's was about Bush. (there was plenty to hate about Bush, plenty to be angry about... but their screaming about "Ohio" and "Diebold machines" and the like is what I'm talking about, and what I'm comparing them to)
You make it sound as if hatred of Bush was limited to the "fringe". I can tell you around here that the most disturbing hatred came from your run of mill liberal.
I dunno. Folk like Jon and Trav certainly didn't like Bush, but I don't recall much in the way of D1B/CC vitriol out of them. Just a statement of the facts as they saw them.
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

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TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
Cluck U wrote:
TTBF, it isn't always about lowering taxes...a little bit...for a little time. It is about government spending being out of control. Non-whites don't understand that...especially since they've organized themselves into a large, unruly mob that screams, "oppression" and, "I'm owed something"...but they don't even know what they want...they just want more money poured at them.

Oh, except those Asians...God damned them...they might as well be white...somehow they've figured out how to be disciplined and successful under white racism...Asians are probably some white racist experiment designed to interfere with the white black/brown dualism anyway. It probably helps that white men like asian women enough that they give the whole race a pass. And the Jews. They're white, but they aren't always the angry whites. :lol: :kisswink:
then where the **** were they when Bush was running up deficits? they sat on their damn hands - of course they did, this isn't about the spending, it's about WHO is doing the spending.
I'm pretty sure that my posts here and on AGS made it clear that I was no fan of Bush and his spending habits. I'm also sure that I'm not the only person who felt that way. True fiscal conservatives were not fans of Bush and neo-conservatism.

Is the federal government spending more than it can afford? Yes
Does it need to make cuts in areas that will upset people, some of whom are calling for cuts? Yes
Should the military (and Iraq and Afghanistan) be included in the cuts? Yes
Do the politicians need to seriously consider and make these cuts regardless of what it does to their chances at relection? Yes. They were elected and are being paid to Lead and leadership isn't about making the easy or popular decisions it's about making the best decisions. During these tough economic times, our elected officials need to do what is right for the long-term health of the country, not what is right for a special interest group or their reelection chances. The deficit is a ball and chain that could drag this country down and needs to be dealt with.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm

MAQA - putting the Q into qrazy qanon qult qonspiracy theories since 2015.

It will probably be difficult for MAQA yahoos to overcome the Qult programming but they should give being rational & reasonable a try.

Thank you for your attention to this matter - UNI88
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Re: Wisconsin GOP orders Arrest of Dems

Post by TwinTownBisonFan »

UNI88 wrote:
TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
then where the **** were they when Bush was running up deficits? they sat on their damn hands - of course they did, this isn't about the spending, it's about WHO is doing the spending.
I'm pretty sure that my posts here and on AGS made it clear that I was no fan of Bush and his spending habits. I'm also sure that I'm not the only person who felt that way. True fiscal conservatives were not fans of Bush and neo-conservatism.

Is the federal government spending more than it can afford? Yes
Does it need to make cuts in areas that will upset people, some of whom are calling for cuts? Yes
Should the military (and Iraq and Afghanistan) be included in the cuts? Yes
Do the politicians need to seriously consider and make these cuts regardless of what it does to their chances at relection? Yes. They were elected and are being paid to Lead and leadership isn't about making the easy or popular decisions it's about making the best decisions. During these tough economic times, our elected officials need to do what is right for the long-term health of the country, not what is right for a special interest group or their reelection chances. The deficit is a ball and chain that could drag this country down and needs to be dealt with.
yeah - but 88, you're not stark-raving kind at these protests...
North Dakota State University Bison 2011 and 2012 National Champions

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