Scientology - Defectors Say Church Hides Abuse

[danefan]

They could not just up and go. For one, they said, the church had taken their passports. But even more important, they knew that if they left the Sea Org without going through the church’s official exit process, they would be declared “suppressive persons” — antisocial enemies of Scientology. They would lose the possibility of living for eternity. Their parents, siblings and friends who are Scientologists would have to disconnect completely from them, or risk being declared suppressive themselves.

“You’re in fear,” Mr. Collbran said. “You’re so into it, it’s everything you know: your family, your eternity.”

Mike Rinder, who for more than 20 years was the church’s spokesman, said the disconnect policy originated as Mr. Hubbard’s prescription for how to deal with an abusive spouse or boss.

Now, “disconnection has become a way of controlling people,” said Mr. Rinder, who says his mother, sister, brother, daughter and son disconnected from him after he left the church. “It is very, very prevalent.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/us/07 ... gewanted=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sounds like a cult to me.

[houndawg]

They could not just up and go. For one, they said, the church had taken their passports. But even more important, they knew that if they left the Sea Org without going through the church’s official exit process, they would be declared “suppressive persons” — antisocial enemies of Scientology. They would lose the possibility of living for eternity. Their parents, siblings and friends who are Scientologists would have to disconnect completely from them, or risk being declared suppressive themselves.

“You’re in fear,” Mr. Collbran said. “You’re so into it, it’s everything you know: your family, your eternity.”

Mike Rinder, who for more than 20 years was the church’s spokesman, said the disconnect policy originated as Mr. Hubbard’s prescription for how to deal with an abusive spouse or boss.

Now, “disconnection has become a way of controlling people,” said Mr. Rinder, who says his mother, sister, brother, daughter and son disconnected from him after he left the church. “It is very, very prevalent.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/us/07 ... gewanted=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sounds like a cult to me.

A bus hiding cult! Jesus, these guys are serious....

[93henfan]

Sounds like a cult to me.

Did you ever have any doubt?

L. Ron Hubbard: "If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

[danefan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/us/07 ... gewanted=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sounds like a cult to me.

A bus hiding cult! Jesus, these guys are serious....

[danefan]

Sounds like a cult to me.

Did you ever have any doubt?

L. Ron Hubbard: "If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

I know - I just think its interesting that the defectors are really starting to get vocal about it.

Looks like they leave the church, but still practice the faith, which is the most interesting part. They still believe in all of the foundations of this religion. How much different is it really than our other religions? All based on a book of some sort or another.

[93henfan]

How much different is it really than our other religions? All based on a book of some sort or another.

[kalm]

How much different is it really than our other religions? All based on a book of some sort or another.

No way man, only the scientologists, mormons, and polytheists are cult members. The rest are all legit.

"If the ascension story is true and Jesus traveled at the speed of light, he has even left our galaxy yet."

-Carl Sagan

[D1B]

Did you ever have any doubt?

L. Ron Hubbard: "If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

I know - I just think its interesting that the defectors are really starting to get vocal about it.

Looks like they leave the church, but still practice the faith, which is the most interesting part. They still believe in all of the foundations of this religion. How much different is it really than our other religions? All based on a book of some sort or another.

Religion fulfills a deep human need to be intimately connected with a (the) higher power and with each other. In just about every religious text there exists a few helpful lines of wisdom to help us get closer. The remaining 99% are directives on how we are to live our lives and the accompanying religion "Sales Manual" - the garbage capitalized on by tyrants, kings, popes and snake charmers to retain political power and or great wealth.

Agree, except for some of the Eastern religions, they are all the same.

[JoltinJoe]

Religion fulfills a deep human need to be intimately connected with a (the) higher power and with each other.

I agree with this. I just wonder why you suppose we have such a deep need?

[D1B]

Religion fulfills a deep human need to be intimately connected with a (the) higher power and with each other.

I agree with this. I just wonder why you suppose we have such a deep need?

Joe, I think every living being has it - instinct for survival.

Our brains are so fucking big and powerful, we're able to delve more deeply into the concept of mortality.

Our religions are highly evolved strategies for survival, no different in basic theory from a sow protecting her cubs or an amoeba getting the fuck away from high Ph.

[JoltinJoe]

I agree with this. I just wonder why you suppose we have such a deep need?

Joe, I think every living being has it - instinct for survival.

Our brains are so **** big and powerful, we're able to delve more deeply into the concept of mortality.

Our religions are highly evolved strategies for survival, no different in basic theory from a sow protecting her cubs or an amoeba getting the **** away from high Ph.

So you think we are delusional in order to survive?

[D1B]

Joe, I think every living being has it - instinct for survival.

Our brains are so **** big and powerful, we're able to delve more deeply into the concept of mortality.

Our religions are highly evolved strategies for survival, no different in basic theory from a sow protecting her cubs or an amoeba getting the **** away from high Ph.

So you think we are delusional in order to survive?

Thanks for pointing out my unfortunate use of the term "highly evolved"!

Well to be honest, it is. So much art, great literature, science, astronomy, you name came as direct or indirect result of our religious endeavors.

Joe, as you know, I think we are somewhat delusional now. There was a time when religion sheltered us from the brutal unknown or gave us hope while suffering great need for our daily bread. IMO, this time has passed and we are on our way to a higher ethical and spiritual existence, beyond the dogma of some religions.

[JoltinJoe]

So you think we are delusional in order to survive?

Thanks for pointing out my unfortunate use of the term "highly evolved"!

Well to be honest, it is. So much art, great literature, science, astronomy, you name came as direct or indirect result of our religious endeavors.

Joe, as you know, I think we are somewhat delusional now. There was a time when religion sheltered us from the brutal unknown or gave us hope while suffering great need for our daily bread. IMO, this time has passed and we are on our way to a higher ethical and spiritual existence, beyond the dogma of some religions.

But aren't you just exchanging one vision of religiosity/spirituality for a more "evolved" one?

And in making this observation, aren't you agreeing with me that man's relationship with "God" is an evolving one, one of revelation on God's part, and deeper discernment on our part (i.e., my understanding of Christianity is more evolved than those Christians 500 years ago)?

[D1B]

Thanks for pointing out my unfortunate use of the term "highly evolved"!

Well to be honest, it is. So much art, great literature, science, astronomy, you name came as direct or indirect result of our religious endeavors.

Joe, as you know, I think we are somewhat delusional now. There was a time when religion sheltered us from the brutal unknown or gave us hope while suffering great need for our daily bread. IMO, this time has passed and we are on our way to a higher ethical and spiritual existence, beyond the dogma of some religions.

But aren't you just exchanging one vision of religiosity/spirituality for a more "evolved" one?

And in making this observation, aren't you agreeing with me that man's relationship with "God" is an evolving one, one of revelation on God's part, and deeper discernment on our part (i.e., my understanding of Christianity is more evolved than those Christians 500 years ago)?

Point 1 - Absolutely

Point 2 - Our respective definitions of "God" are light years apart - so not really.

[CID1990]

"If the ascension story is true and Jesus traveled at the speed of light, he has even left our galaxy yet."

-Carl Sagan

"Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."

–Albert Einstein

[93henfan]

And sodomy.

-Socrates

[CID1990]

Did you ever have any doubt?

L. Ron Hubbard: "If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

I know - I just think its interesting that the defectors are really starting to get vocal about it.

Looks like they leave the church, but still practice the faith, which is the most interesting part. They still believe in all of the foundations of this religion. How much different is it really than our other religions? All based on a book of some sort or another.

Every religion has its defections.

Martin Luther. Still a Christian.

The Shia "schism" They are still Muslims.

Buddhism has a few every year or so. They are still Buddhists.

People becoming disillusioned by the earthly representatives of their religion is common, but the underlying tenets that drew followers remain in place.

[Chizzang]

I know - I just think its interesting that the defectors are really starting to get vocal about it.

Looks like they leave the church, but still practice the faith, which is the most interesting part. They still believe in all of the foundations of this religion. How much different is it really than our other religions? All based on a book of some sort or another.

Every religion has its defections.

Martin Luther. Still a Christian.

The Shia "schism" They are still Muslims.

Buddhism has a few every year or so. They are still Buddhists.

People becoming disillusioned by the earthly representatives of their religion is common, but the underlying tenets that drew followers remain in place.

Agreed:
Religion as a book or series of sketchy documented events forwarded by the power hungry using poorly written texts equaling the meaning of the entire universe is a 6 gallon bucket of hog wash...

Humans seeking God individually and establishing a personal relationship or understanding = Awesome

Anything else leads to people killing people + controlling + fabricating + self righteous indignation...

As everybody already knows the original definition of the Greek word "Sin" is to miss the mark - or misunderstand the meaning of life... when we examine happiness and joy this definition has deeper meaning...

[bench]

Sounds like a cult to me.

Did you ever have any doubt?

L. Ron Hubbard: "If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

I've never quite figured out how any card-carrying Scientologist could selectively overlook that little chestnut and buy into Ron's bullshit. Other similar examples from other religions that may or may not have happened:

"What, the Ascension? Special effects, brah. Oh yeah, that was totally sweet."

"C'mon, I'm a fat dude with an enormous pot belly. That whole 'path to enlightenment' thing was a fantastic way for me to get laid."

"Allah Akbar—that's Arabic for cha-ching, motherfuckers!"

"It occurred to me while I was watching a bunch of Jews taking turns shoving figs up each other's asses. These little shits were COMPLETELY out of control. I had to tell 'em something—you know, scare 'em a little bit so they'd knock it the fuck off."

"I told everyone the Lawwd appeared before me on the frontier and said it was perfectly OK for me to bang and marry a bunch of bitches, mebbe...AND THEY BELIEVED ME AHAHAHAAHA HOW AWESOME IS THAT" <------okay so maybe this one really happened

[ASUG8]

I'd call myself more spiritual than religious - that being said, I often wonder if one/some/all/none of the religions are right. Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Hindus, etc. all have their valid points - is any one of them the correct religion? Who knows, and I won't judge them. I will however take a direct stab at a mediocre science fiction writer making up a religion - something this simplistic preys on the Hollywood elite, which show how brainy that bunch is. I'd love to hear Joltin' Joe or Soulman truthfully weigh in on Hubbard and his cult.

[D1B]

I'd call myself more spiritual than religious - that being said, I often wonder if one/some/all/none of the religions are right. Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Hindus, etc. all have their valid points - is any one of them the correct religion? Who knows, and I won't judge them. I will however take a direct stab at a mediocre science fiction writer making up a religion - something this simplistic preys on the Hollywood elite, which show how brainy that bunch is. I'd love to hear Joltin' Joe or Soulman truthfully weigh in on Hubbard and his cult.

The Joe's would certainly offer an enlightend critique of Hubbard, but they would also have to justify similar absurdities in christianity.