Forget Road Projects. Wait Til Schools Start Hurting

[Cap'n Cat]

Yep, decades of Conk-led budget slashing has left many (if not most) school districts on the bleeding edge of being able to provide services.

Tax assessments are way down (Cap'n Cat's $300K house reassesses some $35,000 lower for '09). Tax revenues will be way down as a result.

Services and programs will be cut. Enjoy Friday night lights? Hope FB makes the cut. Kids enjoy Art? Too bad, this will be replaced by a lecture series on Ronald Reagan's life. Kids play in the band? Not no more. Your spouse a low-tenured instructor? Well, too bad, but Subway is hiring.


Oh, and with all these cuts, good luck making state minimums, never mind the NCLB bullsh*t.

Hasn't started yet, but next fall will be a terrible time for schools.

And, yes, this is overwhelmingly due to Conkiness.






"Oh, cute, girls! Raising money for new volleyball unifoms?"

"Um, no, ma'm. We just want to heat the building this fall."

[ASUMountaineer]

Yep, decades of Conk-led budget slashing has left many (if not most) school districts on the bleeding edge of being able to provide services.

Tax assessments are way down (Cap'n Cat's $300K house reassesses some $35,000 lower for '09). Tax revenues will be way down as a result.

Services and programs will be cut. Enjoy Friday night lights? Hope FB makes the cut. Kids enjoy Art? Too bad, this will be replaced by a lecture series on Ronald Reagan's life. Kids play in the band? Not no more. Your spouse a low-tenured instructor? Well, too bad, but Subway is hiring.


Oh, and with all these cuts, good luck making state minimums, never mind the NCLB bullsh*t.

Hasn't started yet, but next fall will be a terrible time for schools.

And, yes, this is overwhelmingly due to Conkiness.






"Oh, cute, girls! Raising money for new volleyball unifoms?"

"Um, no, ma'm. We just want to heat the building this fall."

And, you'd fix it how? Raise taxes, increase governmental control? Sounds good in theory, but here's a spin on the idea.

What happens if the person you don't want to have that governmental power gets it...a la the governmental power increase superhero George Bush? That's the problem with giving more power to the government...who will be in power next? Raise taxes, but then who is hurting? (Considering we're delving into worst case scenarios (a law jobs at Subway) People then have to try and find money to buy food so their kids will be able to make it through the night to go to school. Any solutions that don't involve raising taxes?

[dbackjon]

There are a few essential areas that taxes, when used wisely, are necessary.

Schools and transportation are two big ones - capital spending that pays for itself in the long run.


If we do not invest in both, we are doomed to be a third world country.

[Cap'n Cat]

Any solutions that don't involve raising taxes?

Hundreds of them, Mountbatten, but disappointed you're so averse to raising taxes - for education at the local level, that is.

Anyhow, you could answer this yourself, but....... things to cut w/o raising taxes:

1. Cut transportation - closer to home games for athletics, tighten the radius in which kids must live to take bus (wait'll parents hear that one), Eliminate bus service altogether (see above). No trips to conferences seminars, band competitions, Mathletes meets, debate competitions, state/district/area athletic competition........etc, etc, etc

2. Cut staff - increase class sizes by eliminating teachers. Reduce their pay. Cut stipend for coaching/club-organization sponsorships. Elimindate continuing education requirements. Eliminate Special Ed staff, etc, etc, etc. WTF you need a school nurse of P.E. teacher anyway? Our kids are healthy and fit!

3. Eliminate infrastructure improvements! Cancel new buildings! Chances are that another kid won't get septicemia drinking from that fountain with the corroded pipes, anyway! Keep using overhead projectors! Stay in those mobile home temporary classrooms!

4. Cut programs! Art? Pfffft. Athletics? Sorry! Clubs? Can't afford 'em. CLEP program? Go to a state school, Li'l Susie!


Given this, at what point does the educational experience of the student become unduly compromised, Mountie?




Edit: And, do you see how one of these suggestions could adversely impact a couple others?

[ASUMountaineer]

Any solutions that don't involve raising taxes?

Hundreds of them, Mountbatten, but disappointed you're so averse to raising taxes - for education at the local level, that is.
- Well, raising taxes can be fine when it's done fairly, and by that I mean on everyone, but where do you stop? At what point is the government continuously effing up enough to quit giving it money?

Anyhow, you could answer this yourself, but....... things to cut w/o raising taxes:

1. Cut transportation - closer to home games for athletics, tighten the radius in which kids must live to take bus (wait'll parents hear that one), Eliminate bus service altogether (see above). No trips to conferences seminars, band competitions, Mathletes meets, debate competitions, state/district/area athletic competition........etc, etc, etc

- At my school, they did some of these things. Conferences, parents paid for it, field trips, stopped at a certain point. Bus service is a touchy situation, but they could join with the local government and have a place closer (like a park) to the school where parents can drop off kids to keep buses from going so far out. Closer athletic games makes some sense, or they can institute a small charge (or tuition) for parents whose children go to the school (instead of raising taxes on everyone whether they have children there or not).

2. Cut staff - increase class sizes by eliminating teachers. Reduce their pay. Cut stipend for coaching/club-organization sponsorships. Elimindate continuing education requirements. Eliminate Special Ed staff, etc, etc, etc. WTF you need a school nurse of P.E. teacher anyway? Our kids are healthy and fit!

- If you got rid of the beauacracy debacle that is the teachers being state employees, paid by the counties/ cities, while being regulated by the federal government, that would help. Eliminate NCLB. Eliminate certain programs unless parents are willing to pay out of pocket for certain things, like band. (I played tennis in HS and we paid for everything, even had to give some money for gas to go to matches)

3. Eliminate infrastructure improvements! Cancel new buildings! Chances are that another kid won't get septicemia drinking from that fountain with the corroded pipes, anyway! Keep using overhead projectors! Stay in those mobile home temporary classrooms!

- Everything, especially now, is a give and take. I don't propose they cut out health situations and allow over-crowding.

4. Cut programs! Art? Pfffft. Athletics? Sorry! Clubs? Can't afford 'em. CLEP program? Go to a state school, Li'l Susie!

Of course they shouldn't cut everything, but some clubs (mainly on HS level here) could become club (like in college) where you do it yourself. The school can provide it's facilities while everything else is funded by the club's members/ parents.


Given this, at what point does the educational experience of the student become unduly compromised, Mountie?

I understand what you're saying, my issue becomes when do we price outselves out of everything else? How much in additional taxes do you plan to make EVERYONE pay? You may favor raising taxes to be like our more socialistic counterparts in the world, but socialism is the answer either and look at our government now...do you really trust those morons to make it better, or fok up even more?




Edit: And, do you see how one of these suggestions could adversely impact a couple others?

I do, work is boring, thought I'd get you riled up.

[Cap'n Cat]

We agree on too much to argue, Mountie. Some of that is ridiculous and not applicable. However, most schools operate at close to bare minimum and further sh*t will hurt, painfully.


For comparison's sake, the military gets all it needs, virtually no questions asked (and with a minimum of oversight). We're constantly beating up schools to cut back. Nearly 600,000,000,000 spent on the Iraqistan thing.

When can schools get a break?

I'm waiting, T-man, beer in hand, one-hitter on the bathroom sink.

[HI54UNI]

First of all I know you're trying to stir the pot but this is not a conk/donk thing. It's a politicians of both parties thing. Both parties are too blame. And the more they try to fix things the more they screw them up.

Here are some thoughts based on my experience in Iowa:

We have too many school districts in Iowa. I live in a county with under 9,000 people in it. The county is about 24 miles square. There are parts of 5 school districts in my county. All 5 overlap into neighboring counties. The total k-12 enrollment in these 5 schools is under 2,000 kids. Yet we pay 5 school superintendents a total compensation/benefit package averaging at least $100,000 per year. We pay 5 business managers, 5 transportation directors, 4 high school principals (one district sends their high school kids to a neighboring district), 5 elementary princpals, secretaries for the supts and principals. We end up with probably close to $1.5 million in duplicative administrative costs in my county alone. Iowa has 340 school districts, most of them small. Do the math and see the wasted money. The Iowa Legislature and Governor know we have too many districts but they don't have the balls to say it because it would be political suicide. So instead they change the funding rules and are slowly strangling the small districts forcing them to merge with their neighbors. The kids suffer because the district cuts programs because no small town wants to lose their school.

We need newer school buildings when we consolidate school districts. If Obama wants to build infrastructure they should build new, energy efficient school buildings. Most school buildings in Iowa are 40-70 years old or older. The energy savings from new buildings in consolidated districts can be better spent on education instead of paying the gas or electric company.

Education needs a more stable funding source than property taxes.

Education programs need to be evaluated. Why do we teach French or German in schools? If we are realistic we need to teach Spanish and/or Chinese. Do we need to make all kids take art or english lit? Should we allow students to focus on a trade? For example if a kid really wants to be an electric lineman does he need to read Shakepeare? Or would his time better spent learning about electricity and taking an applied math class?

We need to focus on the basics instead of worrying about the latest trend or making sure that every child has his/her own laptop computer. Technology is great but kids that can't read will never succeed. Our district implemented a comprehensive reading program in our elementary school. We are starting to see the results in the kids tests scores. Everything ties back to being able to read.

Extracurricular programs need to find a different funding source. Is it more important to spend a $1 on Johnny to learn to read or to teach Johnny to play football or play in the band? This is a tough one because it will impact low income people the most but it can't continue the way it is.

I could go on but I'll get off my soapbox now.

[dbackjon]

Great post.

Illinois has some of the same issues, but not too that degree. Still, too many small districts -- high schools with 90-100 students, just because the town doesn't want to lose it's basketball team...

[Cap'n Cat]

Oh, good Lord.

[HI54UNI]

Great post.

Illinois has some of the same issues, but not too that degree. Still, too many small districts -- high schools with 90-100 students, just because the town doesn't want to lose it's basketball team...

Thanks.

And that's the biggest issue why schools in our area aren't consolidating. We've been discussing merging with a neighboring district off and on for 3 years with it getting very serious in the last 3 months. Our district would take the kids from the other. When we had our meetings guess what topics raised the most controversy and discussion. Was it about what classes or other opportunities we can offer their kids? What will happen to any extra teachers? Hell no! They're worried about important stuff like What will the name of the new school be? What is the name of the mascot going to be? What will the school colors be?

Freakin morons.

[dbackjon]

Great post.

Illinois has some of the same issues, but not too that degree. Still, too many small districts -- high schools with 90-100 students, just because the town doesn't want to lose it's basketball team...

Thanks.

And that's the biggest issue why schools in our area aren't consolidating. We've been discussing merging with a neighboring district off and on for 3 years with it getting very serious in the last 3 months. Our district would take the kids from the other. When we had our meetings guess what topics raised the most controversy and discussion. Was it about what classes or other opportunities we can offer their kids? What will happen to any extra teachers? Hell no! They're worried about important stuff like What will the name of the new school be? What is the name of the mascot going to be? What will the school colors be?

Freakin morons.

Yup - Waverly Scotties must always always have a team.

[AZGrizFan]

Any solutions that don't involve raising taxes?

Hundreds of them, Mountbatten, but disappointed you're so averse to raising taxes - for education at the local level, that is.

Anyhow, you could answer this yourself, but....... things to cut w/o raising taxes:

1. Cut transportation - closer to home games for athletics, tighten the radius in which kids must live to take bus (wait'll parents hear that one), Eliminate bus service altogether (see above). No trips to conferences seminars, band competitions, Mathletes meets, debate competitions, state/district/area athletic competition........etc, etc, etc

2. Cut staff - increase class sizes by eliminating teachers. Reduce their pay. Cut stipend for coaching/club-organization sponsorships. Elimindate continuing education requirements. Eliminate Special Ed staff, etc, etc, etc. WTF you need a school nurse of P.E. teacher anyway? Our kids are healthy and fit!

3. Eliminate infrastructure improvements! Cancel new buildings! Chances are that another kid won't get septicemia drinking from that fountain with the corroded pipes, anyway! Keep using overhead projectors! Stay in those mobile home temporary classrooms!

4. Cut programs! Art? Pfffft. Athletics? Sorry! Clubs? Can't afford 'em. CLEP program? Go to a state school, Li'l Susie!


Given this, at what point does the educational experience of the student become unduly compromised, Mountie?




Edit: And, do you see how one of these suggestions could adversely impact a couple others?

Every one of these have been implemented in our district in the past 18 months. Schools ARE hurting, and we've had a Democrat for governor for the last 8 years. This ain't a conk/donk problem, Cat. The problem in our district is state funding, but it's also the inability to get a bond or override passed in our district. THAT'S where the funding should come from. But people can't see past the end of their nose when it comes to the value of a bond, attractive schools, higher test scores, more school programs/opportunities, better athletic teams, etc., etc. ALL of these things have value and raise the price/value of homes in the neighborhood. People are too stupid/stubborn to realize it and would rather their taxes NOT go up $5 a month than to see their property values go up 10% a year.

Yes, people REALLY are that short sighted....

[ASUMountaineer]

We agree on too much to argue, Mountie. Some of that is ridiculous and not applicable. However, most schools operate at close to bare minimum and further sh*t will hurt, painfully.


For comparison's sake, the military gets all it needs, virtually no questions asked (and with a minimum of oversight). We're constantly beating up schools to cut back. Nearly 600,000,000,000 spent on the Iraqistan thing.

When can schools get a break?

I'm waiting, T-man, beer in hand, one-hitter on the bathroom sink.

That we can agree with. Or, the socializing of the banks with completely no oversight. What could we do with $350 billion for schools? See, you can't just blame that on the faux Republicans, you can blame your favorite Democrats who were in high support of that bill. When you want to socialize everything the money has to come from somewhere...vote people catering to socializing business out and put in those for socializing schools...like Tom said above, you have to be willing to sacrifice when it comes to education. I don't have a problem with that, they pass bonds down here like there won't be anymore in the future. Our schools are not very good (even with the "Education Governor" Jim Hunt--who started Smart Start).

[Col Hogan]

We agree on too much to argue, Mountie. Some of that is ridiculous and not applicable. However, most schools operate at close to bare minimum and further sh*t will hurt, painfully.


For comparison's sake, the military gets all it needs, virtually no questions asked (and with a minimum of oversight). We're constantly beating up schools to cut back. Nearly 600,000,000,000 spent on the Iraqistan thing.

When can schools get a break?

I'm waiting, T-man, beer in hand, one-hitter on the bathroom sink.

There you go mixing apples and oranges...

The Military is a federal responsibility...you know, the Constitution and all that sort of thing...

Education is not...it's a State/Local responsibility...local governments that are not having a hard time right now are doing well with education funding...those that are on hard times are hurting in education funding...

Now, in regards to your simplistic notion that the military is getting "all its needs"...it's true Bush is giving the military what it need for Iraq and Afghanistan...but the military did not ask for Iraq...most of its leaders were opposed to this part of the war, but the boss (Bush) said go, and tell me what you need...so they followed orders...

The rest of the military is hurting and expecting further cut-backs...if you are headed to Iraq or are there, you are getting all you need...everyone else is hurting for basics...

Now, on to education...locally, the state of Maryland is furloughing University employees for five days...they can pick one day a monbth over the next five months...or take it in half days...all to save the University of Maryland system $160M for the period of January - June...In Virginia, some districts have eliminated pay raises for teachers and staff to maintain programs...

It benefits the local economy to maintain good schools, and those who oppose modest tax hikes to maintain those schools are short-sighted...of course, forclosures really hurt schools, which is the big problem in my county, where there are lots of houses under foreclosure meaning taxes are not coming in so school funding is being shorted...same with police, fire, and all other services...

I know...a FEDERAL BAILOUT...

[Ibanez]

It would be pointless to give my position since it has been eloquently stated by Griz and Hogan. Education is a National Problem, but the Local/State level politics have ruined it(as has the No CHild Left Behind). NCLB needs to be repealed, my neighbor was teaching before it with her bachelors degree, no problem. But now, she has to get a new degree b/c Dubya changed the rules. Elimnate the bs and redirect money. We give out billions in foreign aid to help some kid learn to read in the mud. Why not spend that money here in America where it could be put to better use. I'm not trying to get down on foreign aid, but you have to take care of your people first. How can we provide education to Third World countries, when kids in Detroit or Charleston can't f'n read Suppertime for Frida Fuzzy Paws?!

[Cap'n Cat]

No matter on which side you alight, the progenitor of this conundrum was when we facilitated the vote of Negroes and women.

[bison95]

Great post.

Illinois has some of the same issues, but not too that degree. Still, too many small districts -- high schools with 90-100 students, just because the town doesn't want to lose it's basketball team...

This is so true in Iowa it is not even funny! Schools are starting whole grade sharing to save costs, and after 3 years they can consolidate or go back. When this happens the #1 issue is what the mascot will be and the school colors, not the math or english cirriculum. In my time here in Iowa I have come to realize that the school is the identity for the small town, and they have nothing else!

[HI54UNI]

It would be pointless to give my position since it has been eloquently stated by Griz and Hogan. Education is a National Problem, but the Local/State level politics have ruined it(as has the No CHild Left Behind). NCLB needs to be repealed, my neighbor was teaching before it with her bachelors degree, no problem. But now, she has to get a new degree b/c Dubya changed the rules. Elimnate the bs and redirect money. We give out billions in foreign aid to help some kid learn to read in the mud. Why not spend that money here in America where it could be put to better use. I'm not trying to get down on foreign aid, but you have to take care of your people first. How can we provide education to Third World countries, when kids in Detroit or Charleston can't f'n read Suppertime for Frida Fuzzy Paws?!

Mark does your neighbor not have a degree in education but was teaching anyway? Something doesn't sound right. Also the blame for NCLB is at both parties' feet. It was approved by a Democrat Senate.

NCLB is not perfect but there are some good things about it. It tries to install some accountability into education which has been lacking. Unfortunately when the feds try to do something that should be done locally they usually manage to screw it up. Our nation is too big for a one size fits all approach.