Are taxes too low, or is spending too high?

[native]

What is the primary problem with our national deficit? Is spending too high, or are taxes too low?

[Col Hogan]

We have a spending problem...and a tax system that gives away almost as much as it collects...

[SittingBull]

We have a spending problem...and a tax system that gives away almost as much as it collects...

Herman Cain has the best plan of all candidates:
9% personal income tax
9% corporate tax
9% national sales tax

[native]

These figures wouldn't work in my budget! How about yours?

U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
Recent budget cut: $38,500,000,000

Now remove 8 zeros and pretend it is a household budget:

Annual family income: $21,700
Money the family spent: $38,200
New debt on the credit card: $16,500
Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
Total budget cuts: $385

[Ivytalk]

These figures wouldn't work in my budget! How about yours?

U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
Recent budget cut: $38,500,000,000

Now remove 8 zeros and pretend it is a household budget:

Annual family income: $21,700
Money the family spent: $38,200
New debt on the credit card: $16,500
Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
Total budget cuts: $385

That provides very good perspective, native!

And the rent's too goddam high!

[native]

...And the rent's too goddam high!

[Ibanez]

These figures wouldn't work in my budget! How about yours?

U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
Recent budget cut: $38,500,000,000

Now remove 8 zeros and pretend it is a household budget:

Annual family income: $21,700
Money the family spent: $38,200
New debt on the credit card: $16,500
Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
Total budget cuts: $385

Other than stating the obvious, putting the numbers into perspective really shows how FUCKED we got ourselves. What would your advice be. Use numbers. Besides stating the obvious, what are the DRASTIC changes that need to occur?

[native]

... Other than stating the obvious, putting the numbers into perspective really shows how **** we got ourselves. What would your advice be. Use numbers. Besides stating the obvious, what are the DRASTIC changes that need to occur?

Although my post is apparently "obvious" to only a minority of voters, your question is valid, Ibanez.

[native]

... Other than stating the obvious, putting the numbers into perspective really shows how **** we got ourselves. What would your advice be. Use numbers. Besides stating the obvious, what are the DRASTIC changes that need to occur?

Although my post is apparently "obvious" to only a minority of voters, your question is valid, Ibanez.

I do not have the numbers yet, Ibanez, but here are the "drastic" policies that will get us to the numbers:

1. Freeze all new federal hiring
2. 10% reduction in federal spending across the board, except DoD, which has already taken cuts
3. Tax reform with lower tax rates but fewer deductions and NO industry-specific sweetheart loopholes
4. Elimination of unearned public benefits
5. Reform of Social Security to ensure that benefits are paid to those who paid IN, and that pay-outs do not exceed pay-ins.
6. Reform of Medicare to ensure that benefits are paid to those who paid IN, that pay-outs do not exceed pay-ins, in addition to many, many other reforms.
7. National right-to-work law
8. Elimination of ALL public employee unions
9. Immediate enforcement of IP laws on China
10. Immediate opening of all US carbon resources on shore and off shore to drilling

[Ibanez]

... Other than stating the obvious, putting the numbers into perspective really shows how **** we got ourselves. What would your advice be. Use numbers. Besides stating the obvious, what are the DRASTIC changes that need to occur?

Although my post is apparently "obvious" to only a minority of voters, your question is valid, Ibanez.

The obvious that I mention being stated is that we SPEND more than we "EARN" and that our interest on the debt is incredibly high. People advocate the "flat tax." Take a look at the countries that use the flat tax, none of them are really powerhouses on the global stage. Russia had success, I think a 25% increase in revenue the first year, but it declined the following three years. A combonation of the proper tax increases, taxes being collected, reduction in the income distribution, could go a long way. The DoD is already cutting costs and changing policies geared towards saving and more cost efficient practices(well the Navy is anyway). But this needs to happen and the fiscal practices need to continue. Republicans and Democrats and other parties live in this country.

[Ibanez]

Although my post is apparently "obvious" to only a minority of voters, your question is valid, Ibanez.

I do not have the numbers yet, Ibanez, but here are the policies that will get us to the numbers:
1. Freeze all new federal hiring
2. 10% reduction in federal spending across the board, except DoD, which has already taken cuts
3. Tax reform with lower tax rates but fewer deductions and NO industry-specific sweetheart loopholes
4. Elimination of unearned public benefits
5. Reform of Social Security to ensure that benefits are paid to those who paid IN, and that pay-outs do not exceed pay-ins.
6. Reform of Medicare to ensure that to ensure that benefits are paid to those who paid IN, and that pay-outs do not exceed pay-ins, in addition to many, many other reforms.
7. National right-to-work law
8. Elimination of ALL public employee unions
9. Immediate enforcement of IP laws on China
10. Immediate opening of all US carbon resources on shore and off shore to drilling

Good start, very bold. Boldness is what is needed. A politician that is willing to IGNORE THE PARTY LINES and do what is necessary. Sacrifices are necessary. We will have to struggle, sacrifices will have to be made. It won't be easy, but easy is what got us into our current problem.

[Ibanez]

Although my post is apparently "obvious" to only a minority of voters, your question is valid, Ibanez.

I do not have the numbers yet, Ibanez, but here are the policies that will get us to the numbers:
1. Freeze all new federal hiring
2. 10% reduction in federal spending across the board, except DoD, which has already taken cuts
3. Tax reform with lower tax rates but fewer deductions and NO industry-specific sweetheart loopholes
4. Elimination of unearned public benefits
5. Reform of Social Security to ensure that benefits are paid to those who paid IN, and that pay-outs do not exceed pay-ins.
6. Reform of Medicare to ensure that to ensure that benefits are paid to those who paid IN, and that pay-outs do not exceed pay-ins, in addition to many, many other reforms.
7. National right-to-work law
8. Elimination of ALL public employee unions
9. Immediate enforcement of IP laws on China
10. Immediate opening of all US carbon resources on shore and off shore to drilling

Good start, very bold. Boldness is what is needed. A politician that is willing to IGNORE THE PARTY LINES and do what is necessary. Sacrifices are necessary. We will have to struggle, sacrifices will have to be made. It won't be easy, but easy is what got us into our current problem.

[native]

I do not have the numbers yet, Ibanez, but here are the policies that will get us to the numbers:
1. Freeze all new federal hiring
2. 10% reduction in federal spending across the board, except DoD, which has already taken cuts
3. Tax reform with lower tax rates but fewer deductions and NO industry-specific sweetheart loopholes
4. Elimination of unearned public benefits
5. Reform of Social Security to ensure that benefits are paid to those who paid IN, and that pay-outs do not exceed pay-ins.
6. Reform of Medicare to ensure that to ensure that benefits are paid to those who paid IN, and that pay-outs do not exceed pay-ins, in addition to many, many other reforms.
7. National right-to-work law
8. Elimination of ALL public employee unions
9. Immediate enforcement of IP laws on China
10. Immediate opening of all US carbon resources on shore and off shore to drilling

Good start, very bold. Boldness is what is needed. A politician that is willing to IGNORE THE PARTY LINES and do what is necessary. Sacrifices are necessary. We will have to struggle, sacrifices will have to be made. It won't be easy, but easy is what got us into our current problem.

...and:

11. The immediate tough, nationwide enforcement of labor laws and imposition of stiff penalties to discourage hiring illegal aliens, and draconian tax investigations of illegal enterprises which have avoided taxes by hiring illegals off the books. THIS step will gore the sacred cows on both the left and the right, but should cause a bump in employment.

12. Nationwide TORT REFORM to mirror the highly successful tort reform implemented in Texas, which has been one of the most important factors in making Texas the most successful generator of new private sector jobs for the past decade.

[native]

RISING EMPLOYMENT and a GROWING ECONOMY is what will successfully fill tax coffers, NOT HIGHER AND MORE TAXES!

[Ibanez]

RISING EMPLOYMENT and a GROWING ECONOMY is what will successfully fill tax coffers, NOT HIGHER AND MORE TAXES!

No shit. Guess what? Ice is cold, fire is hot. A complete overhaul of our tax code, entitlement spending, foreign aid, need to occur (in addition to a host of other things). But it won't happen because all those fucks in Washington care about getting re-elected. They aren't concerend with with welfare of you and I.

[native]

RISING EMPLOYMENT and a GROWING ECONOMY is what will successfully fill tax coffers, NOT HIGHER AND MORE TAXES!

No ****. Guess what? Ice is cold, fire is hot. Instead of giving some Party base rallying call, what is your solution? A complete overhaul of our tax code, entitlement spending, foreign aid, need to occur (in addition to a host of other things). But it won't happen because all those **** in Washington care about getting re-elected. They aren't concerend with with welfare of you and I.

It is important to repeat the obvious truths, Ibanez, because there are a significant number of voters and posters on this board cannot seem to grasp the concept.

[Ibanez]

No ****. Guess what? Ice is cold, fire is hot. Instead of giving some Party base rallying call, what is your solution? A complete overhaul of our tax code, entitlement spending, foreign aid, need to occur (in addition to a host of other things). But it won't happen because all those **** in Washington care about getting re-elected. They aren't concerend with with welfare of you and I.

It is important to repeat the obvious truths, Ibanez, because there are a significant number of voters and posters on this board cannot seem to grasp the concept.

But when do words become actions? You are right, there are many on this board that fail to grasp the concept.


Good thread, btw. I removed my statement in the middle b/c I get you and some other poster confused.

[blueballs]

Spending and borrowing are too high and the income tax system needs to be replaced with the Fair Tax.

The budget should always balance and the only time borrowing should be considered is in times of genuine national emergency (like Hurricane Katrina) or in a legitimate war declared by congress. Also, no raiding social security- keep it as a true trust fund as it was designed....

... and yes, the rent is too damn high!!!!!

[native]

Spending and borrowing are too high and the income tax system needs to be replaced with the Fair Tax.

The budget should always balance and the only time borrowing should be considered is in times of genuine national emergency (like Hurricane Katrina) or in a legitimate war declared by congress. Also, no raiding social security- keep it as a true trust fund as it was designed....

... and yes, the rent is too damn high!!!!!

...and the rent is too damn high because of the Democrat/Republican/Political Elite/Corporatist "Quantitative Easing" and their refusal to allow market mechanisms to work while protecting of the irresponsible banking industry and irresponsible brrowers from the consequences of the stupid loans they made because of Fannie, Freddie, Dodd, Frank, and the CRA which they all went along with.

[native]

...
But when do words become actions? You are right, there are many on this board that fail to grasp the concept.

Good thread, btw. I removed my statement in the middle b/c I get you and some other poster confused.

Thanks!

...but how the heck can you confuse me with someone else???

Never mind.

[Ivytalk]

Good start, very bold. Boldness is what is needed. A politician that is willing to IGNORE THE PARTY LINES and do what is necessary. Sacrifices are necessary. We will have to struggle, sacrifices will have to be made. It won't be easy, but easy is what got us into our current problem.

...and:

11. The immediate tough, nationwide enforcement of labor laws and imposition of stiff penalties to discourage hiring illegal aliens, and draconian tax investigations of illegal enterprises which have avoided taxes by hiring illegals off the books. THIS step will gore the sacred cows on both the left and the right, but should cause a bump in employment.



12. Nationwide TORT REFORM to mirror the highly successful tort reform implemented in Texas, which has been one of the most important factors in making Texas the most successful generator of new private sector jobs for the past decade.

Native for President!!!

[native]

The only people for whom taxes are too low are Obummer's buddies like GE CEO Jeff Imelt, GM CEO Dan Akerson, Solyndra CEO Brian Harrison, every Democrat car dealer whose dealership was saved from the government knife because they donated to Democrats, and all the other corrupt "crony capitalists" who have been specifically bought off with political favors from the White House.

[kalm]

The only people for whom taxes are too low are Obummer's buddies like GE CEO Jeff Imelt, GM CEO Dan Akerson, every Democrat car dealer whose dealership was saved from the government knife because they donated to Democrats, and all the other "crony capitalists" who have been specifically bought off with political favors from the White House.

So crony capitalism began in 2009 and Wall Street was dragged kicking and screaming by F&F and their minority party henchman into the derivatives market?

[native]

The only people for whom taxes are too low are Obummer's buddies like GE CEO Jeff Imelt, GM CEO Dan Akerson, every Democrat car dealer whose dealership was saved from the government knife because they donated to Democrats, and all the other "crony capitalists" who have been specifically bought off with political favors from the White House.

So crony capitalism began in 2009 and Wall Street was dragged kicking and screaming by F&F and their minority party henchman into the derivatives market?

Not what I said, was it straw man???

The phrase "crony capitalism" is not strong enough to capture the cynical corruption and transparent political payola characterizing the Obama administration.

[JohnStOnge]

Other than stating the obvious, putting the numbers into perspective really shows how **** we got ourselves. What would your advice be. Use numbers. Besides stating the obvious, what are the DRASTIC changes that need to occur?

Unequivocally establish the principle that government is not responsible for ensuring the well-being of every individual or solving every problem. Eliminate Social Security, Mecicare, Medicaid, and all "social programs" spending. Also eliminate the Federal Department of Education.

Repeal Federal drug laws and eliminate the DEA. Eliminate the EPA. Eliminate the CDC. It's not really necessary.

Basically, just get rid fo the idea that the Federal government has to "do everything."