The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby SDHornet » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:31 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:I'm not worried about tax increases; I typically vote for those. In fact, I expect and welcome it for higher government services and a pay increase for certain sectors, particularly education. I contend most teachers should make a minimum of $80-90K.

And no, I do not want all handguns confiscated. But stronger regulations are necessary, although it'll take a national effort. It won't matter what we do here if you can hop to West Virginia and get a firearm anyways. But it's a step forward in that national effort.


CA teachers are highest paid in the nation. The state placed 46th out of 50 in student proficiency. So, good luck with that.

I have plenty of teacher friends who immediately STFU whenever I point this out when they are bitching about their pay. :lol: :dunce:

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 pm

SDHornet wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
CA teachers are highest paid in the nation. The state placed 46th out of 50 in student proficiency. So, good luck with that.

I have plenty of teacher friends who immediately STFU whenever I point this out when they are bitching about their pay. :lol: :dunce:


Well one thing is obvious:Trip has completely bought into the “throw more money at the problem and it’ll solve itself” theory....the government must LOVE him.... :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby Ibanez » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:51 am

SDHornet wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
CA teachers are highest paid in the nation. The state placed 46th out of 50 in student proficiency. So, good luck with that.

I have plenty of teacher friends who immediately STFU whenever I point this out when they are bitching about their pay. :lol: :dunce:


I don't know about $80-90k but teachers should be paid more. More money should be put into schools. And it should be easier to oust bad teachers and retain/promote the good ones. Why wouldn't we want to give the majority of kids in this country the best education?

I understand there are good/bad districts. I understand there are LRRs that actually prevent bad teachers from being fired or actually prevent the good ones from doing their jobs better. Education is a local issue. Not National, IMO. What's good for SC might be detrimental for Montana.



And i think we all agree that whatever Alabama and Mississippi are doing should NOT be copied anywhere else. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby Ibanez » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:01 am

AZGrizFan wrote:
SDHornet wrote:I have plenty of teacher friends who immediately STFU whenever I point this out when they are bitching about their pay. :lol: :dunce:


Well one thing is obvious:Trip has completely bought into the “throw more money at the problem and it’ll solve itself” theory....the government must LOVE him.... :lol: :lol:


Of course. Let's just give money to the problem and not even think about doing some root cause analysis to understand WHY WE HAVE THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE? :roll:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby CID1990 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:13 am

Ibanez wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Well one thing is obvious:Trip has completely bought into the “throw more money at the problem and it’ll solve itself” theory....the government must LOVE him.... :lol: :lol:


Of course. Let's just give money to the problem and not even think about doing some root cause analysis to understand WHY WE HAVE THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE? :roll:


Because our culture is sour and no amount of money thrown at education is going to change it.

Public schools are suffering for a large number of reasons and lack of money is WAY down on the totem pole there.

But I do think teachers should be paid more in most places.


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Re: The Official

Postby Ibanez » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:17 am

CID1990 wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Of course. Let's just give money to the problem and not even think about doing some root cause analysis to understand WHY WE HAVE THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE? :roll:


Because our culture is sour and no amount of money thrown at education is going to change it.

Public schools are suffering for a large number of reasons and lack of money is WAY down on the totem pole there.

But I do think teachers should be paid more in most places.


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That's because they don't praise Jeebus in the public schools.

Filthy heathens.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby HI54UNI » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:46 am

Putting more money into schools is generally just dumping it down a rathole because more money almost always means more strings attached requiring stupid stuff that doesn't help kids. We've actually had a big push in Iowa the last couple of years to reduce red tape and other bureaucratic issues for schools. That has actually played pretty well with our Republican legislature and governor and we have seen some positive changes.

Some teachers should be paid more but there needs to be a differentiation between disciplines rather than just paying all teachers more. History and PE teachers are easy to find. Math, science, and industrial tech teachers are hard to find. Yet under a lot of union contracts they are all paid the same. If you're a math whiz why would you become a teacher when you can go be an actuary and make 50%+ more?

And when it comes to teacher salaries you have to keep in mind that most are probably on 190 day contracts +/- a few days. Most people work 230-240 days +/- based on 260 work days per year less 10ish holidays and 2-4 weeks vacation. So a teacher making $50k gets paid an equivalent of $63k at a regular job when you compare the number of days worked. And benefit packages should also be part of the comparison when looking at teacher salaries.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:59 am

Ibanez wrote:
SDHornet wrote:I have plenty of teacher friends who immediately STFU whenever I point this out when they are bitching about their pay. :lol: :dunce:


I don't know about $80-90k but teachers should be paid more. More money should be put into schools. And it should be easier to oust bad teachers and retain/promote the good ones. Why wouldn't we want to give the majority of kids in this country the best education?

I understand there are good/bad districts. I understand there are LRRs that actually prevent bad teachers from being fired or actually prevent the good ones from doing their jobs better. Education is a local issue. Not National, IMO. What's good for SC might be detrimental for Montana.


90% of people who go into teaching do it because it's "easy" and they get summers off. There's not many who have a burning desire to be a great teacher/mentor. The inability to rid the system of those leeches is 90% of the problem.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby UNI88 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:55 am

HI54UNI wrote:Putting more money into schools is generally just dumping it down a rathole because more money almost always means more strings attached requiring stupid stuff that doesn't help kids. We've actually had a big push in Iowa the last couple of years to reduce red tape and other bureaucratic issues for schools. That has actually played pretty well with our Republican legislature and governor and we have seen some positive changes.

Some teachers should be paid more but there needs to be a differentiation between disciplines rather than just paying all teachers more. History and PE teachers are easy to find. Math, science, and industrial tech teachers are hard to find. Yet under a lot of union contracts they are all paid the same. If you're a math whiz why would you become a teacher when you can go be an actuary and make 50%+ more?

And when it comes to teacher salaries you have to keep in mind that most are probably on 190 day contracts +/- a few days. Most people work 230-240 days +/- based on 260 work days per year less 10ish holidays and 2-4 weeks vacation. So a teacher making $50k gets paid an equivalent of $63k at a regular job when you compare the number of days worked. And benefit packages should also be part of the comparison when looking at teacher salaries.


AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote:I don't know about $80-90k but teachers should be paid more. More money should be put into schools. And it should be easier to oust bad teachers and retain/promote the good ones. Why wouldn't we want to give the majority of kids in this country the best education?


90% of people who go into teaching do it because it's "easy" and they get summers off. There's not many who have a burning desire to be a great teacher/mentor. The inability to rid the system of those leeches is 90% of the problem.


I spent 5 years substitute teaching and while I definitely experienced teachers who got into it because they thought it would be easy it was nowhere near 90%. Most teachers want to do a good job but are handcuffed by the system (too rigid of a curriculum, too much testing rather than teaching, too little discipline/consequences, too large of class sizes, etc.).

Teachers in strong union districts can make a really good salary but it's based on longevity not the quality of their teaching. Starting salaries for teachers tend to be low so the profession doesn't always attract the best candidates. The impact of longevity on salary makes moving to a new district a tougher decision which is too bad because teaching can burn you out and a change of scenery could reinvigorate an experienced teacher.

Fiver is right about the varying salaries. History majors don't have as many options as Math and Science majors. From my experience teachers also spend a lot of their own money on their classroom and their students (especially in lower-income districts) and they can spend their evenings grading papers and preparing lessons for the next day or week (I know a lot of other salaried jobs require evening and weekend work). And that $50K might project out to $63K in a full year but a teacher that wants to work over the summer to make extra money is probably looking at a job in the $10-20/hour range depending on where they live.

Education is critical to the long-term success of the US and it's gotten worse over the last few decades so we need to look outside the box on how to fix it. Throwing money at the problem without really changing anything isn't the solution but strategically investing money in the right ways might be. Let's let state and local governments try different things like what Fiver talked about and see what works rather than having the federal government dictate a one-size-fits-all solution.

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:00 pm

UNI88 wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
90% of people who go into teaching do it because it's "easy" and they get summers off. There's not many who have a burning desire to be a great teacher/mentor. The inability to rid the system of those leeches is 90% of the problem.


I spent 5 years substitute teaching and while I definitely experienced teachers who got into it because they thought it would be easy it was nowhere near 90%. Most teachers want to do a good job but are handcuffed by the system (too rigid of a curriculum, too much testing rather than teaching, too little discipline/consequences, too large of class sizes, etc.).

Teachers in strong union districts can make a really good salary but it's based on longevity not the quality of their teaching. Starting salaries for teachers tend to be low so the profession doesn't always attract the best candidates. The impact of longevity on salary makes moving to a new district a tougher decision which is too bad because teaching can burn you out and a change of scenery could reinvigorate an experienced teacher.

Fiver is right about the varying salaries. History majors don't have as many options as Math and Science majors. From my experience teachers also spend a lot of their own money on their classroom and their students (especially in lower-income districts) and they can spend their evenings grading papers and preparing lessons for the next day or week (I know a lot of other salaried jobs require evening and weekend work). And that $50K might project out to $63K in a full year but a teacher that wants to work over the summer to make extra money is probably looking at a job in the $10-20/hour range depending on where they live.

Education is critical to the long-term success of the US and it's gotten worse over the last few decades so we need to look outside the box on how to fix it. Throwing money at the problem without really changing anything isn't the solution but strategically investing money in the right ways might be. Let's let state and local governments try different things like what Fiver talked about and see what works rather than having the federal government dictate a one-size-fits-all solution.


Agreed. And I made the 90% number up. Also the 2nd 90% number was also made up. :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby GannonFan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:09 pm

Ibanez wrote:
And i think we all agree that whatever Alabama and Mississippi are doing should NOT be copied anywhere else. :mrgreen:


Well, those schools are at a disadvantage because they are filled with students from Alabama and Mississippi in the first place.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby 89Hen » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:22 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:90% of people who go into teaching do it because it's "easy" and they get summers off. There's not many who have a burning desire to be a great teacher/mentor. The inability to rid the system of those leeches is 90% of the problem.

That's a lot of 90%'s there Z. Your numbers aren't anywhere close to reality. :coffee:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:43 pm

89Hen wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:90% of people who go into teaching do it because it's "easy" and they get summers off. There's not many who have a burning desire to be a great teacher/mentor. The inability to rid the system of those leeches is 90% of the problem.

That's a lot of 90%'s there Z. Your numbers aren't anywhere close to reality. :coffee:


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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby CAA Flagship » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:24 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
89Hen wrote:That's a lot of 90%'s there Z. Your numbers aren't anywhere close to reality. :coffee:


I'm 90% sure I already copped to making up 90% of it.

If you say that 6.93 more times, it will become true.

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby kalm » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:17 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
UNI88 wrote:

I spent 5 years substitute teaching and while I definitely experienced teachers who got into it because they thought it would be easy it was nowhere near 90%. Most teachers want to do a good job but are handcuffed by the system (too rigid of a curriculum, too much testing rather than teaching, too little discipline/consequences, too large of class sizes, etc.).

Teachers in strong union districts can make a really good salary but it's based on longevity not the quality of their teaching. Starting salaries for teachers tend to be low so the profession doesn't always attract the best candidates. The impact of longevity on salary makes moving to a new district a tougher decision which is too bad because teaching can burn you out and a change of scenery could reinvigorate an experienced teacher.

Fiver is right about the varying salaries. History majors don't have as many options as Math and Science majors. From my experience teachers also spend a lot of their own money on their classroom and their students (especially in lower-income districts) and they can spend their evenings grading papers and preparing lessons for the next day or week (I know a lot of other salaried jobs require evening and weekend work). And that $50K might project out to $63K in a full year but a teacher that wants to work over the summer to make extra money is probably looking at a job in the $10-20/hour range depending on where they live.

Education is critical to the long-term success of the US and it's gotten worse over the last few decades so we need to look outside the box on how to fix it. Throwing money at the problem without really changing anything isn't the solution but strategically investing money in the right ways might be. Let's let state and local governments try different things like what Fiver talked about and see what works rather than having the federal government dictate a one-size-fits-all solution.


Agreed. And I made the 90% number up. Also the 2nd 90% number was also made up. :coffee: :coffee:


No shit? We thought it was based on your unwavering gratitude for a challenging profession. :lol:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby CID1990 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:20 pm

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Because our culture is sour and no amount of money thrown at education is going to change it.

Public schools are suffering for a large number of reasons and lack of money is WAY down on the totem pole there.

But I do think teachers should be paid more in most places.


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That's because they don't praise Jeebus in the public schools.

Filthy heathens.


I was thinking more of that other American culture .... you know .... the one where people value on average about 1342 things before primary education

How we will fight tooth and nail for our kids to go to a good high school or get into a good college so they can get Cs in gender studies

It is one of the things that I love so much about most of east Asia. The value they place on actual education ... how they didn’t own us 200 years ago is one of the greatest accidents of human history


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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby SeattleGriz » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:19 am

Everything is better with Montana.

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby css75 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:49 pm

Ibanez wrote:
SDHornet wrote:I have plenty of teacher friends who immediately STFU whenever I point this out when they are bitching about their pay. :lol: :dunce:


I don't know about $80-90k but teachers should be paid more. More money should be put into schools. And it should be easier to oust bad teachers and retain/promote the good ones. Why wouldn't we want to give the majority of kids in this country the best education?

I understand there are good/bad districts. I understand there are LRRs that actually prevent bad teachers from being fired or actually prevent the good ones from doing their jobs better. Education is a local issue. Not National, IMO. What's good for SC might be detrimental for Montana.



And i think we all agree that whatever Alabama and Mississippi are doing should NOT be copied anywhere else. :mrgreen:



Nor, should California.


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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby css75 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:51 pm

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Because our culture is sour and no amount of money thrown at education is going to change it.

Public schools are suffering for a large number of reasons and lack of money is WAY down on the totem pole there.

But I do think teachers should be paid more in most places.


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That's because they don't praise Jeebus in the public schools.

Filthy heathens.



When they kicked him out of school, the decliNe started.

Why do you talk about Jesus so much if you are an atheist?


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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby Ibanez » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:59 pm

css75 wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
That's because they don't praise Jeebus in the public schools.

Filthy heathens.



When they kicked him out of school, the decliNe started.

Why do you talk about Jesus so much if you are an atheist?


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I’m not an atheist so I don’t know what you’re taking about.


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Re: The Official

Postby Winterborn » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:29 pm

93henfan wrote:
My current plan is to retire in WV, but it'll be deeper into Almost Heaven than Harper's Ferry.

Btw, I was just there in June with my kiddos and the traffic was a bitch. That alarmed me. I don't want to be near people when I retire. I hate people.


You would fit in just right out in my neck of the prairie.

Plenty of space and next to no people. :D

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby css75 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:15 pm

Ibanez wrote:
css75 wrote:

When they kicked him out of school, the decliNe started.

Why do you talk about Jesus so much if you are an atheist?


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I’m not an atheist so I don’t know what you’re taking about.


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Well, you sure aren’t a fan of Jesus.


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Re: RE: Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby UNI88 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:41 pm

css75 wrote:
Ibanez wrote:I’m not an atheist so I don’t know what you’re taking about.


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Well, you sure aren’t a fan of my Jesus.


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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby Ibanez » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:57 pm

css75 wrote:
Ibanez wrote:I’m not an atheist so I don’t know what you’re taking about.


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Well, you sure aren’t a fan of Jesus.


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That makes me an atheist because I don’t believe in something you do? Wow. That sounds like something a liberal would say. For shame.


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Re: The Official

Postby AZGrizFan » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:19 pm

Ibanez wrote:
css75 wrote:
Well, you sure aren’t a fan of Jesus.


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That makes me an atheist because I don’t believe in something you do? Wow. That sounds like something a liberal would say. For shame.


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:lol: :lol: :nod:
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