2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:I and other Libertarians watched the live candidate debate sponsored by the Kentucky LP last weekend. If Amash thinks he’s going to waltz to the nomination, he may have another “think” coming. He won the post-debate online poll, but only after multiple ballots. And two of the other POTUS candidates — Jo Jorgensen and Jacob Hornberger — grilled Amash pretty good.

The Delaware LP delegates and alternates have interviewed multiple candidates via Zoom. Jorgensen and Hornberger are pretty impressive. And we booked Amash for next week. :nod: Amash would definitely be the most high-profile candidate this year, but a number of Libertarians view him as just one more ex-GOP opportunist, and he is a bit squishy on immigration.
Little “l” libertarians are pretty open-bordery

I don’t know if Amash’s position on it will help or hurt him one way or the other


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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

CID1990 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:43 pm
Ivytalk wrote:I and other Libertarians watched the live candidate debate sponsored by the Kentucky LP last weekend. If Amash thinks he’s going to waltz to the nomination, he may have another “think” coming. He won the post-debate online poll, but only after multiple ballots. And two of the other POTUS candidates — Jo Jorgensen and Jacob Hornberger — grilled Amash pretty good.

The Delaware LP delegates and alternates have interviewed multiple candidates via Zoom. Jorgensen and Hornberger are pretty impressive. And we booked Amash for next week. :nod: Amash would definitely be the most high-profile candidate this year, but a number of Libertarians view him as just one more ex-GOP opportunist, and he is a bit squishy on immigration.
Little “l” libertarians are pretty open-bordery

I don’t know if Amash’s position on it will help or hurt him one way or the other


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Anti-Amash Libertarians will use any policy “hook” they can to derail his nomination, but most of them simply resent his jumping into the race at the last minute to take advantage of the LP’s excellent ballot access. I don’t know how my DE colleagues plan to vote on the first ballot, but I know at least a couple of them don’t favor Amash.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:43 pm
Little “l” libertarians are pretty open-bordery

I don’t know if Amash’s position on it will help or hurt him one way or the other


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Anti-Amash Libertarians will use any policy “hook” they can to derail his nomination, but most of them simply resent his jumping into the race at the last minute to take advantage of the LP’s excellent ballot access. I don’t know how my DE colleagues plan to vote on the first ballot, but I know at least a couple of them don’t favor Amash.
I can see people in the LP being tired of carpetbaggers

But Amash checks just about all of the policy boxes

Plus- he did quit the GOP well before coming out for the LP nomination, and for precisely the reasons a libertarian would have

He’ll have his opponents but an Amash candidacy could give the LP the best shot ever at getting on the debate stage. I think all would be forgiven at that point


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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:46 am
Ivytalk wrote:
Anti-Amash Libertarians will use any policy “hook” they can to derail his nomination, but most of them simply resent his jumping into the race at the last minute to take advantage of the LP’s excellent ballot access. I don’t know how my DE colleagues plan to vote on the first ballot, but I know at least a couple of them don’t favor Amash.
I can see people in the LP being tired of carpetbaggers

But Amash checks just about all of the policy boxes

Plus- he did quit the GOP well before coming out for the LP nomination, and for precisely the reasons a libertarian would have

He’ll have his opponents but an Amash candidacy could give the LP the best shot ever at getting on the debate stage. I think all would be forgiven at that point


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He’s a smart and principled dude but he’d be a goddamned genius alongside Trump and Biden.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

CID1990 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:46 am
Ivytalk wrote:
Anti-Amash Libertarians will use any policy “hook” they can to derail his nomination, but most of them simply resent his jumping into the race at the last minute to take advantage of the LP’s excellent ballot access. I don’t know how my DE colleagues plan to vote on the first ballot, but I know at least a couple of them don’t favor Amash.
I can see people in the LP being tired of carpetbaggers

But Amash checks just about all of the policy boxes

Plus- he did quit the GOP well before coming out for the LP nomination, and for precisely the reasons a libertarian would have

He’ll have his opponents but an Amash candidacy could give the LP the best shot ever at getting on the debate stage. I think all would be forgiven at that point


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The way the Libertarian balloting works will favor Amash eventually. He will probably pull 35-40% on the first ballot, and get to “50% + 1” after most of the others fall away. I’d be surprised at any other result.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by HI54UNI »

Amash didn't quit the GOP until he knew he was going to get stomped in the GOP primary. He's an opportunist just like any politician.

And he will NEVER be tough on China.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by UNI88 »

CID1990 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:43 pm
Ivytalk wrote:I and other Libertarians watched the live candidate debate sponsored by the Kentucky LP last weekend. If Amash thinks he’s going to waltz to the nomination, he may have another “think” coming. He won the post-debate online poll, but only after multiple ballots. And two of the other POTUS candidates — Jo Jorgensen and Jacob Hornberger — grilled Amash pretty good.

The Delaware LP delegates and alternates have interviewed multiple candidates via Zoom. Jorgensen and Hornberger are pretty impressive. And we booked Amash for next week. :nod: Amash would definitely be the most high-profile candidate this year, but a number of Libertarians view him as just one more ex-GOP opportunist, and he is a bit squishy on immigration.
Little “l” libertarians are pretty open-bordery

I don’t know if Amash’s position on it will help or hurt him one way or the other

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Is Amash open-bordery ("if someone is peaceful, they should be welcome to immigrate to the United States") enough for capital "L" libertarians?

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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

UNI88 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:40 am
CID1990 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:43 pm

Little “l” libertarians are pretty open-bordery

I don’t know if Amash’s position on it will help or hurt him one way or the other

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Is Amash open-bordery ("if someone is peaceful, they should be welcome to immigrate to the United States") enough for capital "L" libertarians?
Read Shikha Dalmia’s “Justin Amash’s Confusing and Contradictory Immigration Record” in Thursday’s online edition of Reason.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Winterborn »

Amash is no longer in the running according to his Twitter feed.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

Amash is indeed out. Just confirmed by my state board.

Fuck. I thought we’d finally get a Libertarian to the national debate stage.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Winterborn »

Ivytalk wrote:Amash is indeed out. Just confirmed by my state board.

Fuck. I thought we’d finally get a Libertarian to the national debate stage.
I actually think it is better this way as he can have 4 more years in Congress as a LP and run fresh in 2024. Also it is a bit late to be throwing ones hat into the ring and if he was going to make a serious run at it, last fall would of been a good time to do it (but he wasn't LP back then).
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

Winterborn wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:22 pm
Ivytalk wrote:Amash is indeed out. Just confirmed by my state board.

Fuck. I thought we’d finally get a Libertarian to the national debate stage.
I actually think it is better this way as he can have 4 more years in Congress as a LP and run fresh in 2024. Also it is a bit late to be throwing ones hat into the ring and if he was going to make a serious run at it, last fall would of been a good time to do it (but he wasn't LP back then).
He may have zero more years in Congress. His House campaign was on “pause” for a month, and he may well lose his seat.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

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A little more on Amash dropping out:


https://hotair.com/archives/taylormilla ... ntial-run/

I can see the logic in most of this. If he turns back to campaigning to keep his House seat he way well retain it - since as a GOP candidate he was the anti-establishmentarian. Winning a seat as an L would be a boon for the party and could be a springboard to a 2024 run.


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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

Calculated political risk by Amash. He dipped his baby toe into the POTUS race and took some withering fire from other candidates in the KY debate, where he underperformed (and I watched it). I am among those Libertarians who thought Amash expected a “coronation” and wasn’t prepared for rambunctious LP politics and its unorthodox method of nominating candidates. Nobody really questions his principles, but his post-withdrawal excuses seem calculated to preserve his political viability.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Winterborn »

Ivytalk wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:52 am
Calculated political risk by Amash. He dipped his baby toe into the POTUS race and took some withering fire from other candidates in the KY debate, where he underperformed (and I watched it). I am among those Libertarians who thought Amash expected a “coronation” and wasn’t prepared for rambunctious LP politics and its unorthodox method of nominating candidates. Nobody really questions his principles, but his post-withdrawal excuses seem calculated to preserve his political viability.
That was an interesting debate (I just watched it yesterday) and I agree with your assessment of it that Amash seemed a bit unprepared.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

There seems to be a groundswell of support for Vermin Supreme. Yeah, the guy with a boot on his head. :roll:
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

My Libertarian friends are saying that, with Amash out, Vermin is the true “fuck you” candidate who can attract the votes of young people as well as folks fed up with the duopoly. The others remaining in contention will be lucky to reach 1% nationally, although a few have better libertarian (small “l” intended) credentials than VS. (Many are far worse.) Virtual balloting for the LP POTUS and VPOTUS candidates starts on Friday.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:My Libertarian friends are saying that, with Amash out, Vermin is the true “fuck you” candidate who can attract the votes of young people as well as folks fed up with the duopoly. The others remaining in contention will be lucky to reach 1% nationally, although a few have better libertarian (small “l” intended) credentials than VS. (Many are far worse.) Virtual balloting for the LP POTUS and VPOTUS candidates starts on Friday.
So in other words, the LP likes being a political oddity, wandering in the wilderness

There’s room for a viable 3rd party but the LP doesn’t want to be it
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:02 am
Ivytalk wrote:My Libertarian friends are saying that, with Amash out, Vermin is the true “fuck you” candidate who can attract the votes of young people as well as folks fed up with the duopoly. The others remaining in contention will be lucky to reach 1% nationally, although a few have better libertarian (small “l” intended) credentials than VS. (Many are far worse.) Virtual balloting for the LP POTUS and VPOTUS candidates starts on Friday.
So in other words, the LP likes being a political oddity, wandering in the wilderness

There’s room for a viable 3rd party but the LP doesn’t want to be it
Neither do the Greens.

The Libertarians have too much fratricide about what it means to be a “real” Libertarian, although the Statement of Principles is unambiguous and simple. The number of whackjobs in the party boggles the mind, and I see it in my own local group. That said, I plan to stick with it, because I agree with the SOP.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

Just finished watching the Libertarian POTUS debate moderated by John Stossel. All five candidates looked like Lilliputians. Stossel grilled them all pretty hard. Hornberger choked big time. Jorgensen was sensible but tentative. Vermin Supreme was well-spoken but not very substantive. Jim Gray may have had the best policy answers, but seemed defensive. Monds, the black guy, played the black guy and did reasonably well. Amash probably would have mopped the floor with all of them.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

This has to be the worst political convention I’ve ever seen. Not so much the technology, which is actually holding up OK, but the asshole delegates who keep raising endless parliamentary points and making motions to suspend the rules to let candidates who don’t make the cut in one round of balloting get back in. Utter bullshit. I admire the national chairman, Nick Sarwark, for keeping an even temper and making fair rulings. I would have popped my cork long ago.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Chizzang »

Ivytalk wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:00 pm
This has to be the worst political convention I’ve ever seen. Not so much the technology, which is actually holding up OK, but the asshole delegates who keep raising endless parliamentary points and making motions to suspend the rules to let candidates who don’t make the cut in one round of balloting get back in. Utter bullshit. I admire the national chairman, Nick Sarwark, for keeping an even temper and making fair rulings. I would have popped my cork long ago.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

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First round (!) of balloting now being tallied. Now 5:35 p.m. :sleep:
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

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Round 4 coming up. Left in the running are Hornberger, Jorgensen, Vermin, and Monds.
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Re: 2020 Libertarian Party Nomination Process Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

Clempson faculty member Jo Jorgensen captures the LP nomination for POTUS on the fourth ballot! :thumb: First woman Presidential nominee in LP history. The convention will pick the VPOTUS candidate today.

Jacob Hornberger finished second; Vermin Supreme third.
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