Liberal Conservatism

[kalm]

Andrew Sullivan flat out fucking nails it...

Amash understands how a tribal mentality — and the mutual hatred and fanaticism it generates — devastates our form of liberal democracy. Here he is responding to a woman who says that he’ll be attracting more Democrats than Republicans in his desire to hold Trump accountable and still run for office:

I represent the entire district. So it doesn’t matter to me if a person voted for me or didn’t vote for me, or donated to me or didn’t donate to me … That’s not going to change my principles and who I am … I agree with you that many of the people cheering me on aren’t going to support my campaign … It doesn’t matter to me. This is what it means to be a bigger person. It doesn’t matter to me that some people won’t support me or are hypocritical. You have to do the right thing regardless.
This is a central struggle of this time: Do we acquiesce to tribalism or aim for the citizenship the Founders hoped for? Do we worship a cult leader or practice self-government? This week, Amash has done something important: He has opened up a tiny space within the congressional GOP to debate this question. In a very dark room, he’s the light that begins to seep through the crack under the door. It may not be much, but it’s enough to allow your eyes to adjust and see.



And this is part of a wider ideological struggle within conservatism. You can see the contours of the Amash versus Trump battle, for example, in last week’s online debate between Sohrab Ahmari, a recent Catholic convert, writing at the theo-conservative, Trump-friendly journal First Things and David French, an Evangelical voice of reason at National Review. Ahmari makes the case for Trump the same way that Michael Anton did: All that matters right now is the culture war between good and evil, the West and the rest. Since this is an emergency, and the Godless enemy is on the march, niceties, such as being a stickler for the rule of law, or rhetorical civility, are irrelevant. Insisting on legal distinctions, believing in constitutional restraint, even cooperating with the other party in some circumstances are, for the illiberal mind, all forms of cowardice and surrender

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http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/ ... _medium=s1

[Col Hogan]

OK, now let’s him see do liberals (or progressives)...

[kalm]

OK, now let’s him see do liberals (or progressives)...

Sullivan is a conservative. He's critiqued the left many times including in this article. Your post is ironic.

[UNI88]

It's good to see there are still adults in public service. We need more people like Amash in government.

[Baldy]

OK, now let’s him see do liberals (or progressives)...

Sullivan is a conservative. He's critiqued the left many times including in this article. Your post is ironic.

I get what Col is trying to say.

Too bad there aren't any mainstream Donk pundits left to do this for their side.

[kalm]

Sullivan is a conservative. He's critiqued the left many times including in this article. Your post is ironic.

I get what Col is trying to say.

Too bad there aren't any mainstream Donk pundits left to do this for their side.

This is sadly true. Alt media has some but establishment donks are the absolute worst.

[houndawg]

I get what Col is trying to say.

Too bad there aren't any mainstream Donk pundits left to do this for their side.

This is sadly true. Alt media has some but establishment donks are the absolute worst.

Pushing Joe Biden = Exhibit A

[Ivytalk]

Good article. I also read some of the French-Ahmari exchange in NR. Pence is the natural heir to Trump/Ahmari in this debate, which is itself “ironic” because Trump is no real conservative. If Drumpf is re-elected, Pence will be awaiting his own coronation in ‘24, and that would be a stinging defeat for liberty.

[Chizzang]

Sullivan is a conservative. He's critiqued the left many times including in this article. Your post is ironic.

I get what Col is trying to say.

Too bad there aren't any mainstream Donk pundits left to do this for their side.

Sam Harris..?
He's about as hard on the left as you can get - and calls himself a liberal

[kalm]

I get what Col is trying to say.

Too bad there aren't any mainstream Donk pundits left to do this for their side.

Sam Harris..?
He's about as hard on the left as you can get - and calls himself a liberal

He’s not mainstream.

(Side note...why wouldn’t any freedom and capitalism loving American want to call themselves a liberal? )

[AZGrizFan]

Sam Harris..?
He's about as hard on the left as you can get - and calls himself a liberal

He’s not mainstream.

(Side note...why wouldn’t any freedom and capitalism loving American want to call themselves a liberal? )

Because you guys have shitty positions on a multitude of issues.

[kalm]

He’s not mainstream.

(Side note...why wouldn’t any freedom and capitalism loving American want to call themselves a liberal? )

Because you guys have shitty positions on a multitude of issues.

Im talking about actual liberalism, the kind that Adam Smith espoused, the kind that created this great country...not the one’s you’ve made up in your head and that go bump in the night.

[AZGrizFan]

Because you guys have shitty positions on a multitude of issues.

Im talking about actual liberalism, the kind that Adam Smith espoused, the kind that created this great country...not the one’s you’ve made up in your head and that go bump in the night.

Well, how about because if we called ourselves “liberal” in THAT sense we’d constantly have to explain it and no fucking liberal today would understand what you were talking about because they’re diametrically opposed to most of what Adam Smith espoused.

[Chizzang]

Im talking about actual liberalism, the kind that Adam Smith espoused, the kind that created this great country...not the one’s you’ve made up in your head and that go bump in the night.

Well, how about because if we called ourselves “liberal” in THAT sense we’d constantly have to explain it and no fucking liberal today would understand what you were talking about because they’re diametrically opposed to most of what Adam Smith espoused.

That is a solid post (as far as you just being funny)
But in all seriousness - the difference between a Liberal and Conservative aren't much

The separation of Church and State is Liberal
The personal ownership of guns is Conservative
Unreasonable search and seizure a nice mix of both

etc. etc.

if you go down the list it's a pretty good mix of Liberal and Conservative points
This idea that Liberalism and Conservatism are not compatible is all the Russian destabilizing effect

[CID1990]

This really isn’t all that difficult. But for some reason people keep conflating classical liberalism with what passes for “liberalism” - i.e.: most of the Democratic Party

Classical liberalism IS conservatism - supportive of rules of government that are resistant to meddling and respective of personal liberties... like our own- sometimes the founders (classical liberals almost to a man) look more and more prescient as the years go by

Western civilization, western culture, the Enlightenment, liberal democracy are inseparable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Col Hogan]

Well, how about because if we called ourselves “liberal” in THAT sense we’d constantly have to explain it and no **** liberal today would understand what you were talking about because they’re diametrically opposed to most of what Adam Smith espoused.

That is a solid post (as far as you just being funny)
But in all seriousness - the difference between a Liberal and Conservative aren't much

The separation of Church and State is Liberal
The personal ownership of guns is Conservative
Unreasonable search and seizure a nice mix of both

etc. etc.

if you go down the list it's a pretty good mix of Liberal and Conservative points
This idea that Liberalism and Conservatism are not compatible is all the Russian destabilizing effect

As someone who describes my political position as “constitutional conservative”, I totally disagree with your assessment that some freedoms are liberal and some are conservative...

If it’s in the Constitution (written in it, not made up by a judge or legislator, or executive) then I’m for it...

So, separation of church and state is not written in the Constitution...I’m all for the government not establishing a religion...

If you are a liberal and believe in the Constitution, you should be a supporter of the Second Amendment as written...

And as for the 4th Amendment...I hope I’m correct when I say “who isn’t in favor of it???”

[AZGrizFan]

Well, how about because if we called ourselves “liberal” in THAT sense we’d constantly have to explain it and no fucking liberal today would understand what you were talking about because they’re diametrically opposed to most of what Adam Smith espoused.

That is a solid post (as far as you just being funny)
But in all seriousness - the difference between a Liberal and Conservative aren't much

The separation of Church and State is Liberal
The personal ownership of guns is Conservative
Unreasonable search and seizure a nice mix of both

etc. etc.

if you go down the list it's a pretty good mix of Liberal and Conservative points
This idea that Liberalism and Conservatism are not compatible is all the Russian destabilizing effect

Abortion
Border Wall/Illegal immigration solution
Defense spending
Climate Change causes/solution
Socialism vs capitalism
Death penalty
Student Debt solution
Gun control
Healthcare
Government efficiency

That's 10 things right there that conservatives and liberals disagree on vehemently. There's lots of things donks and conks agree on. Not many that liberals and conservatives agree on....

Spoiler: show

**Disclaimer: And nobody is 100%...for example, I am pro-choice and would cut defense spending.

[kalm]

That is a solid post (as far as you just being funny)
But in all seriousness - the difference between a Liberal and Conservative aren't much

The separation of Church and State is Liberal
The personal ownership of guns is Conservative
Unreasonable search and seizure a nice mix of both

etc. etc.

if you go down the list it's a pretty good mix of Liberal and Conservative points
This idea that Liberalism and Conservatism are not compatible is all the Russian destabilizing effect

As someone who describes my political position as “constitutional conservative”, I totally disagree with your assessment that some freedoms are liberal and some are conservative...

If it’s in the Constitution (written in it, not made up by a judge or legislator, or executive) then I’m for it...

So, separation of church and state is not written in the Constitution...I’m all for the government not establishing a religion...

If you are a liberal and believe in the Constitution, you should be a supporter of the Second Amendment as written...

And as for the 4th Amendment...I hope I’m correct when I say “who isn’t in favor of it???”

The CIA, FBI, NSA, Bush administration, Obama administration and probably 50% of the public.

[Col Hogan]

As someone who describes my political position as “constitutional conservative”, I totally disagree with your assessment that some freedoms are liberal and some are conservative...

If it’s in the Constitution (written in it, not made up by a judge or legislator, or executive) then I’m for it...

So, separation of church and state is not written in the Constitution...I’m all for the government not establishing a religion...

If you are a liberal and believe in the Constitution, you should be a supporter of the Second Amendment as written...

And as for the 4th Amendment...I hope I’m correct when I say “who isn’t in favor of it???”

The CIA, FBI, NSA, Bush administration, Obama administration and probably 50% of the public.

I don’t disagree with you...when Senator Obama was running for the White House, on his web page, he stated clearly that he was opposed to most (maybe all) of the “Patriot Act”...it was the one political position that I was in complete agreement with him on...

Once he got into office, I’m sure his folks told him how much power he would be giving up if he followed through with that pledge...so it quietly fell by the way side...

And as for Bush supporting and signing the Patriot Act...

[Ivytalk]

What’s next? Joe Biden on conservative liberalism?