The Ukraine Crisis

[CID1990]

Wherever SG is reading that the Ukrainian army won't let citizens out of Mariupol and is using them as human shields is one example.

You mean the reporter for the Asiatimes? He also writes for The Nation and Mother Jones.

Any reporter making this claim can be placed in the “Russian propaganda” column if they do not shoe actual evidence

Really. It should be so easy. You don’t use tens of thousands of civilians as human shields and then onlt ine questionable reporter is talking about it. There would be tens of thousands of witnesses and all of their cellphone evidence

But yet let’s just take 2-3 guys’ word for it without any evidence

Its just like voter suppression or stop the steal


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[SeattleGriz]

You mean the reporter for the Asiatimes? He also writes for The Nation and Mother Jones.

Any reporter making this claim can be placed in the “Russian propaganda” column if they do not shoe actual evidence

Really. It should be so easy. You don’t use tens of thousands of civilians as human shields and then onlt ine questionable reporter is talking about it. There would be tens of thousands of witnesses and all of their cellphone evidence

But yet let’s just take 2-3 guys’ word for it without any evidence

Its just like voter suppression or stop the steal


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There are Twitter videos, but for all I know, they could be saying, "if you believe this video, you're a great big jerk" in Ukrainian and I'd never know. I've been looking for something credible, but gotta say not having a Twitter account makes it tough. You get to see three tweets and then it gives you the log in screen. I found one tweet from a Humanitarian group where she talks about the corridors being shut down, but doesn't say why.

Not to deflect, but this was my statement about all the Russian atrocities, "where's the actual video"?

Edit: Twitter suspended the account with the supposed Ukrainians stating Azov forced them into basements and wouldn't let them leave. I'll keep looking.

2nd Edit: The other twitter account showing where people are being taped to poles, having their pants pulled down and ass spanked has been suspended as well. Not quite sure what it going on there, but obviously looks like some sort of public shaming.

3rd Edit: Twitter is much better on desktop than phone if you don't have an account. It's almost like they didn't bother to put the same controls on desktop.

[SeattleGriz]

First "on the ground" report I've read. About what you would expect. Ukrainians have lots of different thoughts on what is happening and western media rarely has anyone who can speak Ukrainian or Russian

https://towardfreedom.org/story/archive ... oligarchs/

What was clear in these and other exchanges is the reality of the East-West split in Ukraine, with anti-Russian sentiment the strongest in the west. “[Russians] would never want to kill Ukrainians for no reason,” one refugee, Dima Chumak, 48, of Mykolayev, told Toward Freedom during the conversation with Shevchenko. “But the nationalists want to kill Russians in the east for fun.” What is certain is, like in Syria, Iraq and other U.S.-inspired conflicts, public opinion on the ground is not as uniform as the Western press makes it seem.

Contrary to the narratives with which the Western public has been inundated, Ukrainian refugees expressed largely divergent positions on the causes and potential outcomes of the conflict. This reporter witnessed EU-zone reporters gravitating toward the far fewer refugees who held pro-Kyiv positions. Not a single foreign press crew had a Russian- or Ukrainian-speaking member in tow, making it less likely they would hear from working-class Ukrainians, who mainly spoke Ukrainian or Russian.

Toward Freedom spoke at length in Russian with several refugees. What stood out was how few of them lent unequivocal support to the government of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

[SeattleGriz]

So how does one validate this article? I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say Azov isn't the friendliest of guys, especially to E Ukrainians.

https://mronline.org/2022/03/21/civilia ... neo-nazis/

On March 18, 2022, we went to the western part of Marioupol where the fighting between the Russian army, the DPR (Donetsk People’s Republic) people’s militia and the neo-Nazi Azov regiment is still raging. We were able to see many civilians finally evacuating Marioupol after several terrible weeks of hiding in cellars, and we asked them how the cohabitation with the Azov fighters went

Some of these “brave” neo-Nazis from Azov, having understood that they were finished, exchanged their uniforms for civilian clothes and fled the city via the humanitarian corridors set up by Russia, despite the checks carried out at the checkpoints (the soldiers check, among other things, the presence of tattoos on the men’s bodies). Moscow estimates that between 150 and 200 of them left Mariupol in the direction of Zaporozhie, in groups of 10 to 15 people. But the Russian army spotted them and eliminated 93 of them during the night.

In talking to civilians still in Marioupol, and those fleeing the city, we have had confirmation that the neo-Nazi fighters of the Azov Regiment are using the residents as human shields, preventing them from leaving the city, and setting up their military equipment and firing positions near bomb shelters, and even in homes, thus causing their destruction when the Russian army or the DPR People’s Militia fires back. A civilian who evacuated the day before revealed to several journalists that it was the Azov regiment that destroyed the dramatic Mariupol theater during its retreat, not the Russian army.

[CID1990]

Zero evidence from any credible sources.

Keep in mind that ethnic Germans, Volksdeutsche- were being oppressed and crying out for help in every single country Nazi Germany decided to “liberate”. Putin is following that same blueprint.

That is what you are seeing here.

Amazing how the flimsiest claims coupled with willful ignorance can get some of you somehow making excuses for a superpower invading a weaker neighbor with zero justification.

This is about the most heinous use of the “yes but” imaginable.


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[SeattleGriz]

Zero evidence from any credible sources.

Keep in mind that ethnic Germans, Volksdeutsche- were being oppressed and crying out for help in every single country Nazi Germany decided to “liberate”. Putin is following that same blueprint.

That is what you are seeing here.

Amazing how the flimsiest claims coupled with willful ignorance can get some of you somehow making excuses for a superpower invading a weaker neighbor with zero justification.

This is about the most heinous use of the “yes but” imaginable.


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What is a credible source in this instance? I don't see you posting any of your OSINT sources.

[CID1990]

Zero evidence from any credible sources.

Keep in mind that ethnic Germans, Volksdeutsche- were being oppressed and crying out for help in every single country Nazi Germany decided to “liberate”. Putin is following that same blueprint.

That is what you are seeing here.

Amazing how the flimsiest claims coupled with willful ignorance can get some of you somehow making excuses for a superpower invading a weaker neighbor with zero justification.

This is about the most heinous use of the “yes but” imaginable.


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What is a credible source in this instance? I don't see you posting any of your OSINT sources.

OSINT sources for what? Saying that your sources are lying?

I can post sources all day that talk about troop movements and engagements in and around contested areas like Mariupol and none of them mention anything about the Azov Battalion using civilians as shields or refusing them passage to leave the city. If it was happening it would be obvious and it would be reported.

Nice try with the “prove my fabricated sources from Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine are wrong”

In other words, prove a negative

It is up to YOU to substantiate these sources.


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[SeattleGriz]

What is a credible source in this instance? I don't see you posting any of your OSINT sources.

OSINT sources for what? Saying that your sources are lying?

I can post sources all day that talk about troop movements and engagements in and around contested areas like Mariupol and none of them mention anything about the Azov Battalion using civilians as shields or refusing them passage to leave the city. If it was happening it would be obvious and it would be reported.

Nice try with the “prove my fabricated sources from Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine are wrong”

In other words, prove a negative

It is up to YOU to substantiate these sources.


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No, posting OSINT sources to get a better understanding of what is happening AND to see the level of validation you are applying.

You rarely post anything to back up your claims.

[Skjellyfetti]

Mariupol was taken by Russian separartists and retaken by Ukraine almost 8 years ago. It is one of the largest holdouts of Russian separatism in Donbas and has been so for 8ish years.

But, I guess Ukraine has just been holding the city hostage for all of these years. That's what Russian state media has been pushing. And, that's part of the "justification" for the invasion. But, it's fucking absurd.

[kalm]

Mariupol was taken by Russian separartists and retaken by Ukraine almost 8 years ago. It is one of the largest holdouts of Russian separatism in Donbas and has been so for 8ish years.

But, I guess Ukraine has just been holding the city hostage for all of these years. That's what Russian state media has been pushing. And, that's part of the "justification" for the invasion. But, it's fucking absurd.

In order to liberate it they have to destroy it first.

[CID1990]

OSINT sources for what? Saying that your sources are lying?

I can post sources all day that talk about troop movements and engagements in and around contested areas like Mariupol and none of them mention anything about the Azov Battalion using civilians as shields or refusing them passage to leave the city. If it was happening it would be obvious and it would be reported.

Nice try with the “prove my fabricated sources from Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine are wrong”

In other words, prove a negative

It is up to YOU to substantiate these sources.


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No, posting OSINT sources to get a better understanding of what is happening AND to see the level of validation you are applying.

You rarely post anything to back up your claims.

It’s really simple, SG.

If you research reputable OSINT sites, you’ll find a plethora of sites that are peer validated and reputable.

So, when you go over to “The Googles”, try searching “best osint in ukraine”

Instead of “Azov Battalion neo Nazis atrocities in Ukraine”

Because on that last one ^^^^ you will certainly find all kinds of reports to validate those preconceived notions. Just as if you Google “proof the earth is flat”

I’ll help you out here. You can start with Bellingcat. They have lots of eyes on the ground. They debunk a lot of doctored stuff coming out of Ukraine. They have some slant but if the AB was doing bad things in the east you had better believe they would be on it. You can even reach out to some of their reporters to see if they have any interest in a focus on the Azov Battalion.

liveuamap does geolocation

Oryx will not help you to debunk the Russian misinformation but it is neat because it tallies all the hardware they are losing, using video or photographic validation

These ^^^ are all reputable OSINT sites until they are not.


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[SeattleGriz]

No, posting OSINT sources to get a better understanding of what is happening AND to see the level of validation you are applying.

You rarely post anything to back up your claims.

It’s really simple, SG.

If you research reputable OSINT sites, you’ll find a plethora of sites that are peer validated and reputable.

So, when you go over to “The Googles”, try searching “best osint in ukraine”

Instead of “Azov Battalion neo Nazis atrocities in Ukraine”

Because on that last one ^^^^ you will certainly find all kinds of reports to validate those preconceived notions. Just as if you Google “proof the earth is flat”

I’ll help you out here. You can start with Bellingcat. They have lots of eyes on the ground. They debunk a lot of doctored stuff coming out of Ukraine. They have some slant but if the AB was doing bad things in the east you had better believe they would be on it. You can even reach out to some of their reporters to see if they have any interest in a focus on the Azov Battalion.

liveuamap does geolocation

Oryx will not help you to debunk the Russian misinformation but it is neat because it tallies all the hardware they are losing, using video or photographic validation

These ^^^ are all reputable OSINT sites until they are not.


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Thank you. I'll check them out...and yes, I have poor search skills. I once found out Howard Stern was a conservative!

[houndawg]

It’s really simple, SG.

If you research reputable OSINT sites, you’ll find a plethora of sites that are peer validated and reputable.

So, when you go over to “The Googles”, try searching “best osint in ukraine”

Instead of “Azov Battalion neo Nazis atrocities in Ukraine”

Because on that last one ^^^^ you will certainly find all kinds of reports to validate those preconceived notions. Just as if you Google “proof the earth is flat”

I’ll help you out here. You can start with Bellingcat. They have lots of eyes on the ground. They debunk a lot of doctored stuff coming out of Ukraine. They have some slant but if the AB was doing bad things in the east you had better believe they would be on it. You can even reach out to some of their reporters to see if they have any interest in a focus on the Azov Battalion.

liveuamap does geolocation

Oryx will not help you to debunk the Russian misinformation but it is neat because it tallies all the hardware they are losing, using video or photographic validation

These ^^^ are all reputable OSINT sites until they are not.


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Thank you. I'll check them out...and yes, I have poor search skills. I once found out Howard Stern was a conservative!

Explain to me why the Azov battalion would think that using civilians for shields would keep the Russians from attacking them.

[Skjellyfetti]

Russia doesn't kill civilians. Those atrocities are all clearly Azov. You've been brainwashed by the western press.

[UNI88]

Russia doesn't kill civilians. Those atrocities are all clearly Azov. You've been brainwashed by the western press.

Da, Comrade!

I much prefer to read MROnline, TowardFreedom, ConservativeTreehouse and Pravda while drinking my vodka.

[Skjellyfetti]

Pretty funny. And prescient. Worth 11 minutes.

From April 2021:

[UNI88]

Is Class Redux Killa one of SG's sources on Ukraine?

[HI54UNI]

Putin wants 'unfriendly' countries to pay for Russian gas in roubles

LONDON, March 23 (Reuters) - Russia will seek payment in roubles for gas sales from “unfriendly” countries, President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday, sending European gas prices soaring on concerns the move would exacerbate the region’s energy crunch.

European countries' dependence on Russian gas to heat their homes and power their economies has been thrown into the spotlight since Moscow sent troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24 and the subsequent imposition of Western sanctions aimed at isolating Russia economically.

With the financial noose tightening and the European Union split on whether to sanction Russia's energy sector, Putin hit back with a clear message -- if you want our gas, buy our currency.

"Russia will continue, of course, to supply natural gas in accordance with volumes and prices ... fixed in previously concluded contracts," Putin said at a televised meeting with top government ministers.

"The changes will only affect the currency of payment, which will be changed to Russian roubles," he said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-03-23/

[CID1990]

Putin wants 'unfriendly' countries to pay for Russian gas in roubles

LONDON, March 23 (Reuters) - Russia will seek payment in roubles for gas sales from “unfriendly” countries, President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday, sending European gas prices soaring on concerns the move would exacerbate the region’s energy crunch.

European countries' dependence on Russian gas to heat their homes and power their economies has been thrown into the spotlight since Moscow sent troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24 and the subsequent imposition of Western sanctions aimed at isolating Russia economically.

With the financial noose tightening and the European Union split on whether to sanction Russia's energy sector, Putin hit back with a clear message -- if you want our gas, buy our currency.

"Russia will continue, of course, to supply natural gas in accordance with volumes and prices ... fixed in previously concluded contracts," Putin said at a televised meeting with top government ministers.

"The changes will only affect the currency of payment, which will be changed to Russian roubles," he said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-03-23/

Suck it up, Europe.

It isn’t like the normals of the world haven’t been warning about this for years.

You can be energy dependent on China, Russia, the Middle East, or the United States. Choose wisely.


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[SDHornet]

Jesus wins.

But before that, Gog and Magog (Russia and China) run roughshod for a bit. Always wondered how those two would become intertwined, but we are seeing it in real time as the economic/social/cultural isolation will push Russia(ns) towards the Chicoms.

What’s your confidence level in this playing out?

100%. If not now, sometime in the future.

[SDHornet]

What is our media putting out that is other than Ukraine has been invaded by Russia in a war of aggression?

I’m seriously interested in what is making you so passive aggressive about this. You remind me of klam


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Ghost of Kyiv
Ukrainians on that island that said fuck you and died, but didn't.
Russian cosmonauts taking extra space suits with them so they could wear the Ukrainian colors home.
Bombing of a maternity ward.

But probably the biggest issue is the either "your all in, or a Putin apologist" line of reasoning. This coming from the media that have been caught lying way too many times over the last couple years to be believed now.

I'm simply taking a what and see attitude.

I DO NOT want to go to war and keep seeing this unrestrained media pushing it. The same media that had over half of Democrats believing if you caught COVID, 50% went to the hospital.

No shit. So we're supposed to believe the same gubmint/IC that told us Sadaam had WMD and the same media that told us 2 weeks to slow the curve, vaccines get us back to normal, and just one jab for the past 2 year?

Anyone not suspicious of what the media and gubint are telling us about the Ukraine invasion should have their heads checked. The good news with SM is that a lot of their bullshit narratives are falling apart in real time so that makes it even harder for the dolts to go along with all the warmongering.

[SDHornet]

Any reporter making this claim can be placed in the “Russian propaganda” column if they do not shoe actual evidence

Really. It should be so easy. You don’t use tens of thousands of civilians as human shields and then onlt ine questionable reporter is talking about it. There would be tens of thousands of witnesses and all of their cellphone evidence

But yet let’s just take 2-3 guys’ word for it without any evidence

Its just like voter suppression or stop the steal


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There are Twitter videos, but for all I know, they could be saying, "if you believe this video, you're a great big jerk" in Ukrainian and I'd never know. I've been looking for something credible, but gotta say not having a Twitter account makes it tough. You get to see three tweets and then it gives you the log in screen. I found one tweet from a Humanitarian group where she talks about the corridors being shut down, but doesn't say why.

Not to deflect, but this was my statement about all the Russian atrocities, "where's the actual video"?

Edit: Twitter suspended the account with the supposed Ukrainians stating Azov forced them into basements and wouldn't let them leave. I'll keep looking.

2nd Edit: The other twitter account showing where people are being taped to poles, having their pants pulled down and ass spanked has been suspended as well. Not quite sure what it going on there, but obviously looks like some sort of public shaming.

3rd Edit: Twitter is much better on desktop than phone if you don't have an account. It's almost like they didn't bother to put the same controls on desktop.

Yeah I've been looking at various twitter accounts as well. Don't know what is fake or not, but the "Ukraine is winning" narratives early on were clearly full of shit. Also agreed on the lack of video in this war. Do those people not have HD cameras/phones?

[SDHornet]

Putin wants 'unfriendly' countries to pay for Russian gas in roubles

LONDON, March 23 (Reuters) - Russia will seek payment in roubles for gas sales from “unfriendly” countries, President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday, sending European gas prices soaring on concerns the move would exacerbate the region’s energy crunch.

European countries' dependence on Russian gas to heat their homes and power their economies has been thrown into the spotlight since Moscow sent troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24 and the subsequent imposition of Western sanctions aimed at isolating Russia economically.

With the financial noose tightening and the European Union split on whether to sanction Russia's energy sector, Putin hit back with a clear message -- if you want our gas, buy our currency.

"Russia will continue, of course, to supply natural gas in accordance with volumes and prices ... fixed in previously concluded contracts," Putin said at a televised meeting with top government ministers.

"The changes will only affect the currency of payment, which will be changed to Russian roubles," he said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-03-23/

Suck it up, Europe.

It isn’t like the normals of the world haven’t been warning about this for years.

You can be energy dependent on China, Russia, the Middle East, or the United States. Choose wisely.


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I recall the Germans laughing at a certain Orange Man when he encouraged them to make moves towards energy independence. Whoops.

[SDHornet]

Also seen multiple stories like these. Similar thing took out those foreign volunteers.

[AZGrizFan]

Suck it up, Europe.

It isn’t like the normals of the world haven’t been warning about this for years.

You can be energy dependent on China, Russia, the Middle East, or the United States. Choose wisely.


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I recall the Germans laughing at a certain Orange Man when he encouraged them to make moves towards energy independence. Whoops.

And for NATO countries to spend more on their own defense. Whoops again.