The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

We'll see if he is correct.

Interesting people you follow…

2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine

After Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, Macgregor appeared on three Fox News programs to speak in support of Russia's actions. Russian state television broadcast excerpts of Macgregor's appearances, which included a characterization of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy as a "puppet," that Russian forces had been "too gentle" in the early days of the invasion and that Russian president Vladimir Putin was being "demonized" by the United States and NATO. Macgregor said he believed Russia should be allowed to seize whatever parts of Ukraine it wanted. After one of his appearances, Macgregor's comments were characterized by veteran Fox News Pentagon correspondent Jennifer Griffin as "appeasement" and that he was being an "apologist" for Putin. After Griffin's remarks, Tucker Carlson — who hosted Macgregor on two successive nights — remarked, "Unlike many of the so-called reporters you see on television, he is not acting secretly as a flack for Lloyd Austin at the Pentagon. No, Doug Macgregor is an honest man." Trey Gowdy, another Fox News host who interviewed Macgregor, said his viewpoint was "stunning and disappointing."[35][36][37][38] U.S. representative Liz Cheney said of Macgregor "This is the Putin wing of the GOP."[39]

From wiki

Like I said, we'll see if he's correct.

[UNI88]

Interesting people you follow…
From wiki

Like I said, we'll see if he's a traitorous bastard.

FYP

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[SeattleGriz]

I grew up about 800 feet from a Minutemen III silo. We used to play Winifred in six man football as well.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-n ... ar-AAWiykQ

The missile was called a Minuteman III, and the launch site had been on their property since the Cold War, when the Air Force paid $150 for one acre of their land as it installed an arsenal of nuclear weapons across the rural West. About 400 of those missiles remain active and ready to launch at a few seconds notice in Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, Colorado and Nebraska. They are located on bison preserves and Indian reservations. They sit across from a national forest, behind a rodeo grandstand, down the road from a one-room schoolhouse, and on dozens of private farms like the one belonging to the Butchers, who have lived for 60 years with a nuclear missile as their closest neighbor.

[SDHornet]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna23014

Sorry Cid, none of these people dealing with this have any credibility. I'd rather keep out troops out of this mess. If that means more dead civilians, then so be it.

Why do you keep throwing out this straw man? At least you’ve acknowledged that war crimes against civilians are happening so I guess that’s a start

Nobody is sending our troops to Ukraine. It has been said over and over that we are releasing intelligence to try to pre-empt Putin from using chemical weapons. Before, it was to try to pre-empt him from using a false flag to invade in the first place.

Nobody is trying to get us into a shooting war with Russia except retired or unemployed talking heads on CNN with zero policy pull.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Whoops. A Senator calling for us to stop Putin. I think this is what Cid calls a "spiking of the football" moment. The uniparty is all about war, especially since we left that last one (Afghanistan). It was only a matter of time until the politicians starting banging the war drums harder. They'll get even more desperate as the situation in Ukraine continues to deteriorate for the West.

[SDHornet]

Looks like the Russians have started their offensive on the Donbas now. Also sounds like the Azov nazi's have been pretty much liquidated in Mariupol.

[kalm]

Why do you keep throwing out this straw man? At least you’ve acknowledged that war crimes against civilians are happening so I guess that’s a start

Nobody is sending our troops to Ukraine. It has been said over and over that we are releasing intelligence to try to pre-empt Putin from using chemical weapons. Before, it was to try to pre-empt him from using a false flag to invade in the first place.

Nobody is trying to get us into a shooting war with Russia except retired or unemployed talking heads on CNN with zero policy pull.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Whoops. A Senator calling for us to stop Putin. I think this is what Cid calls a "spiking of the football" moment. The uniparty is all about war, especially since we left that last one (Afghanistan). It was only a matter of time until the politicians starting banging the war drums harder. They'll get even more desperate as the situation in Ukraine continues to deteriorate for the West.

You’re sounding quite similar to Noam Chomsky on this.

[SDHornet]

Whoops. A Senator calling for us to stop Putin. I think this is what Cid calls a "spiking of the football" moment. The uniparty is all about war, especially since we left that last one (Afghanistan). It was only a matter of time until the politicians starting banging the war drums harder. They'll get even more desperate as the situation in Ukraine continues to deteriorate for the West.

You’re sounding quite similar to Noam Chomsky on this.

I just don't think this war is worthy of US troop involvement, nor do I want to see our troops sent over there. If you want to conflate that stance with being aligned with "fill in the blank", knock yourself out.

[GannonFan]

Whoops. A Senator calling for us to stop Putin. I think this is what Cid calls a "spiking of the football" moment. The uniparty is all about war, especially since we left that last one (Afghanistan). It was only a matter of time until the politicians starting banging the war drums harder. They'll get even more desperate as the situation in Ukraine continues to deteriorate for the West.

You’re sounding quite similar to Noam Chomsky on this.

Chomsky has a convenient "we just have to let Russia do what Russia wants to do" approach to foreign policy since he can say that from the safety of his house that has no chance of being attacked by Russia. I'm not necessarily advocating sending in the troops either, but I also realize the issue of a world where larger nations invade their smaller neighbor countries and brazenly kill tens of thousands of people just because they want to.

[SDHornet]

You’re sounding quite similar to Noam Chomsky on this.

Chomsky has a convenient "we just have to let Russia do what Russia wants to do" approach to foreign policy since he can say that from the safety of his house that has no chance of being attacked by Russia. I'm not necessarily advocating sending in the troops either, but I also realize the issue of a world where larger nations invade their smaller neighbor countries and brazenly kill tens of thousands of people just because they want to.

This is something treaties help deal with. Unfortunately for Ukraine, they do not have any meaningful defense treaties with anyone that can save them from their current predicament.

[GannonFan]

Chomsky has a convenient "we just have to let Russia do what Russia wants to do" approach to foreign policy since he can say that from the safety of his house that has no chance of being attacked by Russia. I'm not necessarily advocating sending in the troops either, but I also realize the issue of a world where larger nations invade their smaller neighbor countries and brazenly kill tens of thousands of people just because they want to.

This is something treaties help deal with. Unfortunately for Ukraine, they do not have any meaningful defense treaties with anyone that can save them from their current predicament.

Well, to hear Russia say it, it was partly Ukraine's desire to be a part of a defensive alliance (i.e. NATO) that prompted their invasion. They probably should've asked for a NATO-light treaty (part of NATO, but no NATO forces stationed in-country) when they gave up their nukes back in the 90's. The lesson everyone is learning from this crisis is 1) don't ever give up nukes if you have them and 2) get in NATO as soon as possible. Taiwan doesn't have #1 and they're way too far away geographically for #2 so their fate, whenever it happens, is a foregone conclusion.

[SeattleGriz]

This is something treaties help deal with. Unfortunately for Ukraine, they do not have any meaningful defense treaties with anyone that can save them from their current predicament.

Well, to hear Russia say it, it was partly Ukraine's desire to be a part of a defensive alliance (i.e. NATO) that prompted their invasion. They probably should've asked for a NATO-light treaty (part of NATO, but no NATO forces stationed in-country) when they gave up their nukes back in the 90's. The lesson everyone is learning from this crisis is 1) don't ever give up nukes if you have them and 2) get in NATO as soon as possible. Taiwan doesn't have #1 and they're way too far away geographically for #2 so their fate, whenever it happens, is a foregone conclusion.

Out of curiosity, how did you square the Iraq war? WMDs that were never there and a massive civilian body count.

[SDHornet]

Well, to hear Russia say it, it was partly Ukraine's desire to be a part of a defensive alliance (i.e. NATO) that prompted their invasion. They probably should've asked for a NATO-light treaty (part of NATO, but no NATO forces stationed in-country) when they gave up their nukes back in the 90's. The lesson everyone is learning from this crisis is 1) don't ever give up nukes if you have them and 2) get in NATO as soon as possible. Taiwan doesn't have #1 and they're way too far away geographically for #2 so their fate, whenever it happens, is a foregone conclusion.

Out of curiosity, how did you square the Iraq war? WMDs that were never there and a massive civilian body count.

Assume you mean W's Iraq War. I was young and dumb and in real time bought into the WMD narratives (I was a FR in college at the time of the invasion). Now I view it as a foreign policy failure that destabilized the region all in the name of "spreading democracy". I'm not some America hater, just hope that someday we actually have a foreign policy that thinks of US citizens first, and padding the pockets of American oligarch last. Wishful thinking, I know.

[kalm]

Out of curiosity, how did you square the Iraq war? WMDs that were never there and a massive civilian body count.

Assume you mean W's Iraq War. I was young and dumb and in real time bought into the WMD narratives (I was a FR in college at the time of the invasion). Now I view it as a foreign policy failure that destabilized the region all in the name of "spreading democracy". I'm not some America hater, just hope that someday we actually have a foreign policy that thinks of US citizens first, and padding the pockets of American oligarch last. Wishful thinking, I know.

Whoa. Slow down there. Now you’re sounding like me.

Fucking libs…

[houndawg]

Whoops. A Senator calling for us to stop Putin. I think this is what Cid calls a "spiking of the football" moment. The uniparty is all about war, especially since we left that last one (Afghanistan). It was only a matter of time until the politicians starting banging the war drums harder. They'll get even more desperate as the situation in Ukraine continues to deteriorate for the West.

You’re sounding quite similar to Noam Chomsky on this.

SDHornet - Fellow Traveler



Biggest flipflop since JSO was a Republican

[houndawg]

You’re sounding quite similar to Noam Chomsky on this.

I just don't think this war is worthy of US troop involvement, nor do I want to see our troops sent over there. If you want to conflate that stance with being aligned with "fill in the blank", knock yourself out.

Welcome, Comrade!

[houndawg]

You’re sounding quite similar to Noam Chomsky on this.

Chomsky has a convenient "we just have to let Russia do what Russia wants to do" approach to foreign policy since he can say that from the safety of his house that has no chance of being attacked by Russia. I'm not necessarily advocating sending in the troops either, but I also realize the issue of a world where larger nations invade their smaller neighbor countries and brazenly kill tens of thousands of people just because they want to.

No, he's saying that because its all we can do. This is Putin's War and he's calling the shots.

Putin has a clock running on this thing - he can't afford to let it go on too long, its costing him a fuckload of money and his military has been exposed as little more than a Russian Tonton Macoute.

[houndawg]

Out of curiosity, how did you square the Iraq war? WMDs that were never there and a massive civilian body count.

Assume you mean W's Iraq War. I was young and dumb and in real time bought into the WMD narratives (I was a FR in college at the time of the invasion). Now I view it as a foreign policy failure that destabilized the region all in the name of "spreading democracy". I'm not some America hater, just hope that someday we actually have a foreign policy that thinks of US citizens first, and padding the pockets of American oligarch last. Wishful thinking, I know.

Oh please.


SDBleedingHeart

[Ibanez]

You’re sounding quite similar to Noam Chomsky on this.

I just don't think this war is worthy of US troop involvement, nor do I want to see our troops sent over there. If you want to conflate that stance with being aligned with "fill in the blank", knock yourself out.

Getting the US more involved than we already are is a slippery slope. I would say that it does suck for the Ukraine that they have no allies that can send troops to help. We know this isn't the end of Russian aggression until Putin and Lavrov are gone.

[kalm]

I just don't think this war is worthy of US troop involvement, nor do I want to see our troops sent over there. If you want to conflate that stance with being aligned with "fill in the blank", knock yourself out.

Getting the US more involved than we already are is a slippery slope. I would say that it does suck for the Ukraine that they have no allies that can send troops to help. We know this isn't the end of Russian aggression until Putin and Lavrov are gone.

^ hard truth.

[BDKJMU]

I just don't think this war is worthy of US troop involvement, nor do I want to see our troops sent over there. If you want to conflate that stance with being aligned with "fill in the blank", knock yourself out.

Getting the US more involved than we already are is a slippery slope. I would say that it does suck for the Ukraine that they have no allies that can send troops to help. We know this isn't the end of Russian aggression until Putin and Lavrov are gone.

Would it be? I saw somewhere a month or 2 ago that the guy who would likely replace Putin is allegedly even worse..

[kalm]

Getting the US more involved than we already are is a slippery slope. I would say that it does suck for the Ukraine that they have no allies that can send troops to help. We know this isn't the end of Russian aggression until Putin and Lavrov are gone.

Would it be? I saw somewhere a month or 2 ago that the guy who would likely replace Putin is allegedly even worse..

Putin is only going to be taken down from within or by illness. If it’s the former, it would be surprising if any Putin adjacent officials rise to power.

[SeattleGriz]

Would it be? I saw somewhere a month or 2 ago that the guy who would likely replace Putin is allegedly even worse..

Putin is only going to be taken down from within or by illness. If it’s the former, it would be surprising if any Putin adjacent officials rise to power.

He's got pretty good ratings within Russia right now.

[SeattleGriz]

Why do all the interesting guys get "disappeared" or censored.

This guy was talking about what a mess it was when Zelensky released all the prisoners to fight. Seems the prisoners were more interested in settling old debts as opposed to fighting for their country. Not implying criminals captured him. It was AZOV.

[kalm]

Putin is only going to be taken down from within or by illness. If it’s the former, it would be surprising if any Putin adjacent officials rise to power.

He's got pretty good ratings within Russia right now.

Propaganda is effective until it isn’t. The Berlin Wall likely had good ratings in the Soviet Union before it fell.

[UNI88]

Why do all the interesting guys get "disappeared" or censored.

This guy was talking about what a mess it was when Zelensky released all the prisoners to fight. Seems the prisoners were more interested in settling old debts as opposed to fighting for their country. Not implying criminals captured him. It was AZOV.

CNN ... Ha ... ... Fake News ...