The Ukraine Crisis

[houndawg]

When you don’t achieve your goals/predictions just change your goals/predictions and say prior goals/predictions were just a feint - vlad “the soon to be impaled” putin

No. Look at what just happened. Zelensky was told if he did what the West told him to do, he'd get into NATO. The West just shit on Zelensky and denied Ukraine entry to NATO. He did everything he was asked, and it only cost him countless lives and his country.

you don't even believe that bullshit yourself or you wouldn't be so shrill when the subject is raised - everybody knows Ukraine is going to be in NATO when the time is right. You acting like the fact that it hasn't happened in one year means it won't happen at all is certainly chuckle-worthy and further proof of your ability to ignore the obvious. Vladimir Putin's master plan has turned into the Greatest Political Blunder of Recorded History and is just too big of a gift to refuse because when the Chinese pull the plug on bank rolling Russia in what is now a proxy war between the US and China the Russian will lose a lot more than what was left of their prestige. Bye bye warm water port in the Black Sea - soon to be renamed the Lake of NATO...

[kalm]

Undeniable.

[SeattleGriz]

No. Look at what just happened. Zelensky was told if he did what the West told him to do, he'd get into NATO. The West just shit on Zelensky and denied Ukraine entry to NATO. He did everything he was asked, and it only cost him countless lives and his country.

you don't even believe that bullshit yourself or you wouldn't be so shrill when the subject is raised - everybody knows Ukraine is going to be in NATO when the time is right. You acting like the fact that it hasn't happened in one year means it won't happen at all is certainly chuckle-worthy and further proof of your ability to ignore the obvious. Vladimir Putin's master plan has turned into the Greatest Political Blunder of Recorded History and is just too big of a gift to refuse because when the Chinese pull the plug on bank rolling Russia in what is now a proxy war between the US and China the Russian will lose a lot more than what was left of their prestige. Bye bye warm water port in the Black Sea - soon to be renamed the Lake of NATO...

They were promised back in 2008. If they'd only do this, or do that. Why do you think Zelensky mentioned how Ukraine has worked towards the goals put in front of them, but are never given specifics. Ukraine got strung along by the neocons.

[UNI88]

you don't even believe that bullshit yourself or you wouldn't be so shrill when the subject is raised - everybody knows Ukraine is going to be in NATO when the time is right. You acting like the fact that it hasn't happened in one year means it won't happen at all is certainly chuckle-worthy and further proof of your ability to ignore the obvious. Vladimir Putin's master plan has turned into the Greatest Political Blunder of Recorded History and is just too big of a gift to refuse because when the Chinese pull the plug on bank rolling Russia in what is now a proxy war between the US and China the Russian will lose a lot more than what was left of their prestige. Bye bye warm water port in the Black Sea - soon to be renamed the Lake of NATO...

They were promised back in 2008. If they'd only do this, or do that. Why do you think Zelensky mentioned how Ukraine has worked towards the goals put in front of them, but are never given specifics. Ukraine got strung along by the neocons.

What date did they give them for entry back in 2008?

[SeattleGriz]

They were promised back in 2008. If they'd only do this, or do that. Why do you think Zelensky mentioned how Ukraine has worked towards the goals put in front of them, but are never given specifics. Ukraine got strung along by the neocons.

What date did they give them for entry back in 2008?

With all the monetary assistance and 15 years, Ukraine couldn't get their shit in gear? Hmmm

Well. Just do a few things and we'll have your back! It's become obvious what has happened.

Well, the next best option from Ukraine's perspective would be a clear timetable toward membership. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in an interview that aired over the weekend that Ukraine should get clear security guarantees, which President Biden seems to agree with, although we don't know exactly what those are.

And many Ukrainians just feel they've been in limbo since the possibility of joining NATO was first broached back in 2008. Ukraine wants the question resolved sooner rather than later. They say this fuzzy middle ground has encouraged Russian leader Vladimir Putin to invade. He knew it would be too late to act if he waited until Ukraine actually joined NATO.

[kalm]

What date did they give them for entry back in 2008?

With all the monetary assistance and 15 years, Ukraine couldn't get their shit in gear? Hmmm

Well. Just do a few things and we'll have your back! It's become obvious what has happened.

Well, the next best option from Ukraine's perspective would be a clear timetable toward membership. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in an interview that aired over the weekend that Ukraine should get clear security guarantees, which President Biden seems to agree with, although we don't know exactly what those are.

And many Ukrainians just feel they've been in limbo since the possibility of joining NATO was first broached back in 2008. Ukraine wants the question resolved sooner rather than later. They say this fuzzy middle ground has encouraged Russian leader Vladimir Putin to invade. He knew it would be too late to act if he waited until Ukraine actually joined NATO.

Has Zalenskyy been in power since 2008? If not, who was?

[UNI88]

With all the monetary assistance and 15 years, Ukraine couldn't get their shit in gear? Hmmm

Well. Just do a few things and we'll have your back! It's become obvious what has happened.

Has Zalenskyy been in power since 2008? If not, who was?

Viktor Yushchenko.

What was the impact of the disastrous administration of the Nazi, Viktor Yanukovych, from 2010 - 2014?

[SeattleGriz]

Has Zalenskyy been in power since 2008? If not, who was?

Viktor Yushchenko.

What was the impact of the disastrous administration of the Nazi, Viktor Yanukovych, from 2010 - 2014?

Disastrous? The current Ukraine war started with his replacement. Then came the paramilitary forces, also known as Nazis, funded in part by the neocons.

[UNI88]

Viktor Yushchenko.

What was the impact of the disastrous administration of the Nazi, Viktor Yanukovych, from 2010 - 2014?

Disastrous? The current Ukraine war started because putin couldn't handle it when the Ukrainians threw him out of office. Then came the paramilitary forces in Donbas and Luhansk, also known as Nazis, funded in part by putin.

FYP

[SeattleGriz]

Disastrous? The current Ukraine war started because putin couldn't handle it when the Ukrainians threw him out of office. Then came the paramilitary forces in Donbas and Luhansk, also known as Nazis, funded in part by putin.

FYP

Not even close. The new Government of Ukraine went after the Russian aspect in Ukraine by banning Russian spoken language and education. The Donbass asked for autonomy and got the Azov brigade...which was funded by the neocons.

What do you think when Putin talks about denazification? He's talking about the ridding of mercenaries/paramilitary that started the war in 2014 and has not followed its agreed upon Minsk I and II.

[UNI88]

FYP

Not even close. The new Government of Ukraine went after the Russian aspect in Ukraine by banning Russian spoken language and education. The Donbass asked for autonomy and got the Azov brigade...which was funded by the neocons.

What do you think when Putin talks about denazification? He's talking about the ridding of mercenaries/paramilitary that started the war in 2014 and has not followed its agreed upon Minsk I and II.

So Ukraine was kind of like Florida. They ban books and stop "woke" education. They take away Disney's limited autonomy and send in the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District Nazis.

I would think that MAGAt yahoos would approve of Ukraine trying to stamp out impure, foreign influences like russian language and education.

[SeattleGriz]

Not even close. The new Government of Ukraine went after the Russian aspect in Ukraine by banning Russian spoken language and education. The Donbass asked for autonomy and got the Azov brigade...which was funded by the neocons.

What do you think when Putin talks about denazification? He's talking about the ridding of mercenaries/paramilitary that started the war in 2014 and has not followed its agreed upon Minsk I and II.

So Ukraine was kind of like Florida. They ban books and stop "woke" education. They take away Disney's limited autonomy and send in the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District Nazis.

I would think that MAGAt yahoos would approve of Ukraine trying to stamp out impure, foreign influences like russian language and education.

Well, people tend to frown on that when it involves bombing defenseless women and children illegally for 8 years.

[UNI88]

So Ukraine was kind of like Florida. They ban books and stop "woke" education. They take away Disney's limited autonomy and send in the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District Nazis.

I would think that MAGAt yahoos would approve of Ukraine trying to stamp out impure, foreign influences like russian language and education.

Well, people tend to frown on that when it involves bombing defenseless women and children illegally for 8 years.

8 years? When did we add Chechnya (1999-2007) to the discussion?

putin is certainly responsible for the deaths of a lot of women and children.

[SeattleGriz]

Well, people tend to frown on that when it involves bombing defenseless women and children illegally for 8 years.

8 years? When did we add Chechnya (1999-2007) to the discussion?

putin is certainly responsible for the deaths of a lot of women and children.

See. You have no clue what happened. Just going along with the narrative. The Donbass has been at war with the Ukrainian paramilitary groups since 2014. Minsk I. Minsk II. Hello.

On Feb 16th, Ukraine increased it illegal shelling of Donbass to show it was getting ready to invade. The Donbass asked for recognition from Putin and after a vote, they were recognized and then provided protection on Feb 24th.

You can ignore reality all you like, but you've been duped into supporting another bullshit war started by the neocons.

[houndawg]

8 years? When did we add Chechnya (1999-2007) to the discussion?

putin is certainly responsible for the deaths of a lot of women and children.

See. You have no clue what happened. Just going along with the narrative. The Donbass has been at war with the Ukrainian paramilitary groups since 2014. Minsk I. Minsk II. Hello.

On Feb 16th, Ukraine increased it illegal shelling of Donbass to show it was getting ready to invade. The Donbass asked for recognition from Putin and after a vote, they were recognized and then provided protection on Feb 24th.

You can ignore reality all you like, but you've been duped into supporting another bullshit war started by the neocons.

Russia should seriously think about declaring victory and going home. Its only going to look worse when they're forced out.

[UNI88]

8 years? When did we add Chechnya (1999-2007) to the discussion?

putin is certainly responsible for the deaths of a lot of women and children.

See. You have no clue what happened. Just going along with the narrative. The Donbass has been at war with the Ukrainian paramilitary groups since 2014. Minsk I. Minsk II. Hello.

On Feb 16th, Ukraine increased it illegal shelling of Donbass to show it was getting ready to invade. The Donbass asked for recognition from Putin and after a vote, they were recognized and then provided protection on Feb 24th.

You can ignore reality all you like, but you've been duped into supporting another bullshit war started by the neocons.

I'll freely admit that I sometimes have no clue but I'm smart enough not to buy hook, line and sinker the bullsh!t spread by MAGAt yahoos with an agenda. Believing that BS is just as bad as believing the government is here to help.

[SeattleGriz]

Jacques Baud is a former colonel of the General Staff, ex-member of the Swiss strategic intelligence, specialist on Eastern countries. He was trained in the American and British intelligence services. He has served as Policy Chief for United Nations Peace Operations. As a UN expert on rule of law and security institutions, he designed and led the first multidimensional UN intelligence unit in the Sudan. He has worked for the African Union and was for 5 years responsible for the fight, at NATO, against the proliferation of small arms. He was involved in discussions with the highest Russian military and intelligence officials just after the fall of the USSR. Within NATO, he followed the 2014 Ukrainian crisis and later participated in programs to assist the Ukraine. He is the author of several books on intelligence, war and terrorism, in particular Le Détournement published by SIGEST and Gouverner par les fake news, L’affaire Navalny. His latest book, Poutine, maître du jeu?, is published by Max Milo.

See. You have no clue what happened. Just going along with the narrative. The Donbass has been at war with the Ukrainian paramilitary groups since 2014. Minsk I. Minsk II. Hello.

On Feb 16th, Ukraine increased it illegal shelling of Donbass to show it was getting ready to invade. The Donbass asked for recognition from Putin and after a vote, they were recognized and then provided protection on Feb 24th.

You can ignore reality all you like, but you've been duped into supporting another bullshit war started by the neocons.

I'll freely admit that I sometimes have no clue but I'm smart enough not to buy hook, line and sinker the bullsh!t spread by MAGAt yahoos with an agenda. Believing that BS is just as bad as believing the government is here to help.

His biography sure doesn't read like a yahoo.

https://mronline.org/2022/04/10/the-mil ... e-ukraine/

[UNI88]

Jacques Baud is a former colonel of the General Staff, ex-member of the Swiss strategic intelligence, specialist on Eastern countries. He was trained in the American and British intelligence services. He has served as Policy Chief for United Nations Peace Operations. As a UN expert on rule of law and security institutions, he designed and led the first multidimensional UN intelligence unit in the Sudan. He has worked for the African Union and was for 5 years responsible for the fight, at NATO, against the proliferation of small arms. He was involved in discussions with the highest Russian military and intelligence officials just after the fall of the USSR. Within NATO, he followed the 2014 Ukrainian crisis and later participated in programs to assist the Ukraine. He is the author of several books on intelligence, war and terrorism, in particular Le Détournement published by SIGEST and Gouverner par les fake news, L’affaire Navalny. His latest book, Poutine, maître du jeu?, is published by Max Milo.

I'll freely admit that I sometimes have no clue but I'm smart enough not to buy hook, line and sinker the bullsh!t spread by MAGAt yahoos with an agenda. Believing that BS is just as bad as believing the government is here to help.

His biography sure doesn't read like a yahoo.

If he supports trump or defends putin, he's a MAGAt yahoo and has no credibility. Baldy said that was okay (Browde).

Seriously, I could dig up equally qualified people with different opinions. I and others have posted links to some of their stuff on this very thread. You found this pied piper and believe him because he's saying what you want to hear. And you wonder why I can't see how obvious it is and get in line and follow along too.

[SeattleGriz]

His biography sure doesn't read like a yahoo.

If he supports trump or defends putin, he's a MAGAt yahoo and has no credibility. Baldy said that was okay (Browde).

Seriously, I could dig up equally qualified people with different opinions. I and others have posted links to some of their stuff on this very thread. You found this pied piper and believe him because he's saying what you want to hear. And you wonder why I can't see how obvious it is and get in line and follow along too.

Yes. There is no history of the US making up shit to start a conflict of, say in Iraq or Afghanistan and now Syria. But that former Colonel who worked for NATO in Ukraine is a big fat liar!!

You didn't watch the 45 second video of Halfbright saying 500,000 dead children was acceptable did you? People like her have been pushing Ukraine to go after Russia for years.

[UNI88]

If he supports trump or defends putin, he's a MAGAt yahoo and has no credibility. Baldy said that was okay (Browde).

Seriously, I could dig up equally qualified people with different opinions. I and others have posted links to some of their stuff on this very thread. You found this pied piper and believe him because he's saying what you want to hear. And you wonder why I can't see how obvious it is and get in line and follow along too.

Yes. There is no history of the US making up shit to start a conflict of, say in Iraq or Afghanistan and now Syria.

You didn't watch the 45 second video of Halfbright saying 500,000 dead children was acceptable did you? People like her have been pushing Ukraine to go after Russia for years.

There's a lot of shit like that. There's just as much history of russia making up shit to start a conflict. I call BS on you wanting to hold the US accountable and give putin/russia a pass. Let's hold everyone accountable.

putin ordered the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation. Kosovo and Iraq don't justify/excuse the invasion. They should be questioned as well.

[houndawg]

If he supports trump or defends putin, he's a MAGAt yahoo and has no credibility. Baldy said that was okay (Browde).

Seriously, I could dig up equally qualified people with different opinions. I and others have posted links to some of their stuff on this very thread. You found this pied piper and believe him because he's saying what you want to hear. And you wonder why I can't see how obvious it is and get in line and follow along too.

Yes. There is no history of the US making up shit to start a conflict of, say in Iraq or Afghanistan and now Syria. But that former Colonel who worked for NATO in Ukraine is a big fat liar!!

You didn't watch the 45 second video of Halfbright saying 500,000 dead children was acceptable did you? People like her have been pushing Ukraine to go after Russia for years.

Russia leaves and.....=========>peace in Ukraine.

[SeattleGriz]

Yes. There is no history of the US making up shit to start a conflict of, say in Iraq or Afghanistan and now Syria. But that former Colonel who worked for NATO in Ukraine is a big fat liar!!

You didn't watch the 45 second video of Halfbright saying 500,000 dead children was acceptable did you? People like her have been pushing Ukraine to go after Russia for years.

Russia leaves and.....=========>peace in Ukraine.

No. Were you not paying attention. Ukraine has been attacking the people in the Donbass with paramilitary for eight years. Russia leaves, that doesn't just stop unless Ukraine is willing to follow a NEW agreement, as the previous two were admittedly to give them time to build up for an invasion.

Do you bother to read ANY news or just make shit up as you go?

[SeattleGriz]

Yes. There is no history of the US making up shit to start a conflict of, say in Iraq or Afghanistan and now Syria.

You didn't watch the 45 second video of Halfbright saying 500,000 dead children was acceptable did you? People like her have been pushing Ukraine to go after Russia for years.

There's a lot of shit like that. There's just as much history of russia making up shit to start a conflict. I call BS on you wanting to hold the US accountable and give putin/russia a pass. Let's hold everyone accountable.

putin ordered the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation. Kosovo and Iraq don't justify/excuse the invasion. They should be questioned as well.

Putin wasn't allowed to protect the Russian speaking population that was getting the shit shelled out of it the whole week before Putin started his SMO? Putin was just supposed to sit by and allow the slaughter of ethnic Russians? People who simply wanted autonomy from Ukraine forbidding the teaching or speaking of Russian? Autonomy. They didn't even ask to leave Ukraine, just simply asked to not have to abide by the anti Russian horse crap.

You are weak on support of your stance. Jake Tapper isn't helping you much.

[houndawg]

There's a lot of shit like that. There's just as much history of russia making up shit to start a conflict. I call BS on you wanting to hold the US accountable and give putin/russia a pass. Let's hold everyone accountable.

putin ordered the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation. Kosovo and Iraq don't justify/excuse the invasion. They should be questioned as well.

Putin wasn't allowed to protect the Russian speaking population that was getting the shit shelled out of it the whole week before Putin started his SMO? Putin was just supposed to sit by and allow the slaughter of ethnic Russians? People who simply wanted autonomy from Ukraine forbidding the teaching or speaking of Russian? Autonomy. They didn't even ask to leave Ukraine, just simply asked to not have to abide by the anti Russian horse crap.

You are weak on support of your stance. Jake Tapper isn't helping you much.

Why not? They would have been welcomed with open arms by their brothers....

[SeattleGriz]

Undeniable.

Tell that to the people in the Donbass that have been illegally attacked by paramilitary since 2014.