The Ukraine Crisis

[UNI88]

So your Swiss expert is saying that russians Igor Girkin (former FSB colonel) and Sergey Dubinskiy (former russian army general) weren't in Ukraine in 2014? The Hague District Court would disagree with him. Your Swiss expert's narrative is filled with holes.

I'm not going to argue that there weren't/aren't fascists in Ukrainian army/militias but they were/are just as prevalent in the russian army/militias (see founder of the Wagner Group) so that argument is a red herring.

But the Wagner group was never used to kill 10,000+ Russian civilians.

Anyway, the large majority of the Donbass military were Ukrainians switching sides. Was Russia helping where they could? Yes, but when the Chief of the SBU says he's only seen 56 Russian soldiers from the start, it makes you realize Russia was either really good at hiding the militias GF describes, or they were smart enough to keep their assistance to the border.

https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/co ... 99718.html

This article was 1.5 years into the Ukraine war.

PYATYKHATKY - The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) has registered the involvement of 56 Russians in the military actions against Ukraine, SBU Chief Vasyl Hrytsak said.

‘We documented involvement of 56 Russians in the military actions against Ukraine from the moment the military conflict unfolded,’ he said at a press conference in the village of Pyatykhatky, where the SBU basis located.

Ukrainian fascists crossed into russia and killed 10,000 russian civilians? How many Ukrainian civilians has the Wagner Group killed?

Your Swiss expert lied when he said the russian military wasn't involved in Donbass. If he lied about that, what else is he lying about?

[Baldy]

Zelensky gave this Nazi who served in the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (initially 1st Galician, later 1st Ukranian) a raised fist. Because fighting against the Russians is all that matters I guess. If that isn't evidence of Zelensky's Nazi sympathies, I don't know what is.

Unity News Net reports you decide.

Because it didn't happen, right?

[SeattleGriz]

But the Wagner group was never used to kill 10,000+ Russian civilians.

Anyway, the large majority of the Donbass military were Ukrainians switching sides. Was Russia helping where they could? Yes, but when the Chief of the SBU says he's only seen 56 Russian soldiers from the start, it makes you realize Russia was either really good at hiding the militias GF describes, or they were smart enough to keep their assistance to the border.

https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/co ... 99718.html

This article was 1.5 years into the Ukraine war.

Ukrainian fascists crossed into russia and killed 10,000 russian civilians? How many Ukrainian civilians has the Wagner Group killed?

Your Swiss expert lied when he said the russian military wasn't involved in Donbass. If he lied about that, what else is he lying about?

Nice attempt at obfuscation and then an ad hominem. You really only have made up arguments.

[UNI88]

Ukrainian fascists crossed into russia and killed 10,000 russian civilians? How many Ukrainian civilians has the Wagner Group killed?

Your Swiss expert lied when he said the russian military wasn't involved in Donbass. If he lied about that, what else is he lying about?

Nice attempt at obfuscation and then an ad hominem. You really only have made up arguments.

You keep moving the goalposts.

You pushed the russian propoganda that they were attempting to denazify Ukraine and when confronted with evidence that the thousands of Nazis in the Ukrainian militias was really just the total number in the militias and that some of them were Nazis you moved on to but the militias Killed 10,000 citizens. How many civilians have the russians killed?

You said that the Russian military wasn't in the Donbass and when proven wrong you shift to there were only 56 soldiers there.

Your Swiss expert has been discredited. Anything he says is justifiably suspect.

[UNI88]

Unity News Net reports you decide.

Because it didn't happen, right?

Canada House speaker apologizes for recognition of veteran who fought for Nazis

I don't think he can dismiss Reuters so easily.

[kalm]

Unity News Net reports you decide.

Because it didn't happen, right?

Hey! Captain Shoot the Source chimes in!

Would you take the time to read and believe Unity News Net?

[SeattleGriz]

Nice attempt at obfuscation and then an ad hominem. You really only have made up arguments.

You keep moving the goalposts.

You pushed the russian propoganda that they were attempting to denazify Ukraine and when confronted with evidence that the thousands of Nazis in the Ukrainian militias was really just the total number in the militias and that some of them were Nazis you moved on to but the militias Killed 10,000 citizens. How many civilians have the russians killed?

You said that the Russian military wasn't in the Donbass and when proven wrong you shift to there were only 56 soldiers there.

Your Swiss expert has been discredited. Anything he says is justifiably suspect.

Jesus Christ. Keep doubling down like you know what you are talking about. You're so far out of bed on this one StOnge.

Let's review the facts. In regards to Russian propaganda. Below, you can see the Swiss Intelligence officer is commenting on the fact the Ukrainians needed to rebuild their military, but wanted to do it quickly so they used paramilitary militias (mercenaries). You are trying to use your Daily Sceptic "fact check" to say "well it can't possibly all 102K". Well no fucking shit Sherlock. As you can see here, he never said all 102K were Nazis, he was stated 40% of the Ukrainian military was comprised of paramilitary militias...which contained a lot of people that were willing to go after the Ukrainian people. These were the "Nazis" Putin was talking about denazifying. Mercenaries that didn't give two shits about Russian speaking Ukrainians and are documented with rape, torture and murder. These are also the soldiers Kiev put on the border, which makes sense, as the regular Ukrainian military didn't want to fight their brothers and sisters.

In fact, the army was undermined by the corruption of its cadres and no longer enjoyed the support of the population. According to a British Home Office report, in the March/April 2014 recall of reservists, 70 percent did not show up for the first session, 80 percent for the second, 90 percent for the third, and 95 percent for the fourth. In October/November 2017, 70% of conscripts did not show up for the “Fall 2017” recall campaign. This is not counting suicides and desertions (often over to the autonomists), which reached up to 30 percent of the workforce in the ATO area. Young Ukrainians refused to go and fight in the Donbass and preferred emigration, which also explains, at least partially, the demographic deficit of the country.

The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense then turned to NATO to help make its armed forces more “attractive.” Having already worked on similar projects within the framework of the United Nations, I was asked by NATO to participate in a program to restore the image of the Ukrainian armed forces. But this is a long-term process and the Ukrainians wanted to move quickly.

So, to compensate for the lack of soldiers, the Ukrainian government resorted to paramilitary militias. They are essentially composed of foreign mercenaries, often extreme right-wing militants. In 2020, they constituted about 40 percent of the Ukrainian forces and numbered about 102,000 men, according to Reuters. They were armed, financed and trained by the United States, Great Britain, Canada and France. There were more than 19 nationalities—including Swiss.

The total number of civilians killed is being tracked by the OSCE and was last at greater than 10,000+

Are you really going to go with "you said there were no Russians" when I provide you with a statement from the chief of the Ukrainian SBU were he is quoted as saying that in the last 18 months, they have only seen 56 Russians? Holy fucking shit! It's an invasion. Once again, a StOngesque level of bullshit when you pull the absolutes. 3.1 Russians per month didn't do shit and you know it.

You are the one who lacks credibility here...big time. I understand you are still smarting from the ass beating I gave you over backing yourself into a corner, but until you can start to provide me with someone who was actually there, I'll just have to trust the guy who was trained by Western Intelligence, was a Swiss Intelligence Officer, worked for the UN and under NATO helped Ukraine rebuild it's military during the Ukraine war on the Donbass.

[Baldy]

Because it didn't happen, right?

Hey! Captain Shoot the Source chimes in!

Would you take the time to read and believe Unity News Net?

Never heard of them before, but unlike you, I checked multiple sources and guess what? It's true. You're free to check out 88's link as well.

You're confusing sources for actual stories with mind numbingly stupid takes you love to post here from the garbage accounts you follow on Twatter. There is a big difference between the two.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

[Caribbean Hen]

The nut don’t fall far from the tree

well, I guess thats true - but I was refering to the fact that Hunter Biden isn't running for office... I'll try to remember to spoon feed you in the future

You still wearing your Bibb from the feeding you took on your claim that Bojoezo got it all wrong on the vaccine preventing COVID infection

[kalm]

Hey! Captain Shoot the Source chimes in!

Would you take the time to read and believe Unity News Net?

Never heard of them before, but unlike you, I checked multiple sources and guess what? It's true. You're free to check out 88's link as well.

You're confusing sources for actual stories with mind numbingly stupid takes you love to post here from the garbage accounts you follow on Twatter. There is a big difference between the two.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

You seem quite hurt by Twitter. I use it as a news aggregator AND meme source which must really bother and confuse you considering every legit news agency has an account and you apparently have trouble discerning between the two.

I missed ‘88’s link so since you’ve checked multiple sources why don’t you post one and I’ll check it out. Please forgive me, but there is so much MAGA-Russian driven propaganda out there, these are rabbit holes I tend to avoid until accurate reporting develops.

BTW, have you checked out Greenwald or Taibbi lately? I heard the Guardian and Rolling Stone ain’t what they used to be.

[UNI88]

Never heard of them before, but unlike you, I checked multiple sources and guess what? It's true. You're free to check out 88's link as well.

You're confusing sources for actual stories with mind numbingly stupid takes you love to post here from the garbage accounts you follow on Twatter. There is a big difference between the two.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

You seem quite hurt by Twitter. I use it as a news aggregator AND meme source which must really bother and confuse you considering every legit news agency has an account and you apparently have trouble discerning between the two.

I missed ‘88’s link so since you’ve checked multiple sources why don’t you post one and I’ll check it out. Please forgive me, but there is so much MAGA-Russian driven propaganda out there, these are rabbit holes I tend to avoid until accurate reporting develops.

BTW, have you checked out Greenwald or Taibbi lately? I heard the Guardian and Rolling Stone ain’t what they used to be.

Here you go …

Because it didn't happen, right?

Canada House speaker apologizes for recognition of veteran who fought for Nazis

I don't think he can dismiss Reuters so easily.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UNI88]

You keep moving the goalposts.

You pushed the russian propoganda that they were attempting to denazify Ukraine and when confronted with evidence that the thousands of Nazis in the Ukrainian militias was really just the total number in the militias and that some of them were Nazis you moved on to but the militias Killed 10,000 citizens. How many civilians have the russians killed?

You said that the Russian military wasn't in the Donbass and when proven wrong you shift to there were only 56 soldiers there.

Your Swiss expert has been discredited. Anything he says is justifiably suspect.

Jesus Christ. Keep doubling down like you know what you are talking about. You're so far out of bed on this one StOnge.

Let's review the facts. In regards to Russian propaganda. Below, you can see the Swiss Intelligence officer is commenting on the fact the Ukrainians needed to rebuild their military, but wanted to do it quickly so they used paramilitary militias (mercenaries). You are trying to use your Daily Sceptic "fact check" to say "well it can't possibly all 102K". Well no fucking shit Sherlock. As you can see here, he never said all 102K were Nazis, he was stated 40% of the Ukrainian military was comprised of paramilitary militias...which contained a lot of people that were willing to go after the Ukrainian people. These were the "Nazis" Putin was talking about denazifying. Mercenaries that didn't give two shits about Russian speaking Ukrainians and are documented with rape, torture and murder. These are also the soldiers Kiev put on the border, which makes sense, as the regular Ukrainian military didn't want to fight their brothers and sisters.

In fact, the army was undermined by the corruption of its cadres and no longer enjoyed the support of the population. According to a British Home Office report, in the March/April 2014 recall of reservists, 70 percent did not show up for the first session, 80 percent for the second, 90 percent for the third, and 95 percent for the fourth. In October/November 2017, 70% of conscripts did not show up for the “Fall 2017” recall campaign. This is not counting suicides and desertions (often over to the autonomists), which reached up to 30 percent of the workforce in the ATO area. Young Ukrainians refused to go and fight in the Donbass and preferred emigration, which also explains, at least partially, the demographic deficit of the country.

The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense then turned to NATO to help make its armed forces more “attractive.” Having already worked on similar projects within the framework of the United Nations, I was asked by NATO to participate in a program to restore the image of the Ukrainian armed forces. But this is a long-term process and the Ukrainians wanted to move quickly.

So, to compensate for the lack of soldiers, the Ukrainian government resorted to paramilitary militias. They are essentially composed of foreign mercenaries, often extreme right-wing militants. In 2020, they constituted about 40 percent of the Ukrainian forces and numbered about 102,000 men, according to Reuters. They were armed, financed and trained by the United States, Great Britain, Canada and France. There were more than 19 nationalities—including Swiss.

The total number of civilians killed is being tracked by the OSCE and was last at greater than 10,000+

Are you really going to go with "you said there were no Russians" when I provide you with a statement from the chief of the Ukrainian SBU were he is quoted as saying that in the last 18 months, they have only seen 56 Russians? Holy fucking shit! It's an invasion. Once again, a StOngesque level of bullshit when you pull the absolutes. 3.1 Russians per month didn't do shit and you know it.

You are the one who lacks credibility here...big time. I understand you are still smarting from the ass beating I gave you over backing yourself into a corner, but until you can start to provide me with someone who was actually there, I'll just have to trust the guy who was trained by Western Intelligence, was a Swiss Intelligence Officer, worked for the UN and under NATO helped Ukraine rebuild it's military during the Ukraine war on the Donbass.

Your Swiss expert was the one who said there was no russian military presence in Donbass. When his cheese was proven to be filled with holes you moved the goalposts to another “unbiased” expert who says there were only a very small number of russian military personnel present. Do you have another expert lined up for when that’s proven wrong.

Your Swiss expert was also shown to be intellectually dishonest when he tried to intimate that the total number of fascists supporting Ukraine was equal to the numbers in the militias/guard.

The russians were in Donbass stirring sh!t up to give themselves a reason to invade.

[SeattleGriz]

Jesus Christ. Keep doubling down like you know what you are talking about. You're so far out of bed on this one StOnge.

Let's review the facts. In regards to Russian propaganda. Below, you can see the Swiss Intelligence officer is commenting on the fact the Ukrainians needed to rebuild their military, but wanted to do it quickly so they used paramilitary militias (mercenaries). You are trying to use your Daily Sceptic "fact check" to say "well it can't possibly all 102K". Well no fucking shit Sherlock. As you can see here, he never said all 102K were Nazis, he was stated 40% of the Ukrainian military was comprised of paramilitary militias...which contained a lot of people that were willing to go after the Ukrainian people. These were the "Nazis" Putin was talking about denazifying. Mercenaries that didn't give two shits about Russian speaking Ukrainians and are documented with rape, torture and murder. These are also the soldiers Kiev put on the border, which makes sense, as the regular Ukrainian military didn't want to fight their brothers and sisters.



The total number of civilians killed is being tracked by the OSCE and was last at greater than 10,000+

Are you really going to go with "you said there were no Russians" when I provide you with a statement from the chief of the Ukrainian SBU were he is quoted as saying that in the last 18 months, they have only seen 56 Russians? Holy fucking shit! It's an invasion. Once again, a StOngesque level of bullshit when you pull the absolutes. 3.1 Russians per month didn't do shit and you know it.

You are the one who lacks credibility here...big time. I understand you are still smarting from the ass beating I gave you over backing yourself into a corner, but until you can start to provide me with someone who was actually there, I'll just have to trust the guy who was trained by Western Intelligence, was a Swiss Intelligence Officer, worked for the UN and under NATO helped Ukraine rebuild it's military during the Ukraine war on the Donbass.

Your Swiss expert was the one who said there was no russian military presence in Donbass. When his cheese was proven to be filled with holes you moved the goalposts to another “unbiased” expert who says there were only a very small number of russian military personnel present. Do you have another expert lined up for when that’s proven wrong.

Your Swiss expert was also shown to be intellectually dishonest when he tried to intimate that the total number of fascists supporting Ukraine was equal to the numbers in the militias/guard.

The russians were in Donbass stirring sh!t up to give themselves a reason to invade.

Just can't stop, can you? Trying to desperately to get out from under the fact you put yourself in a corner by being lazy and refusing to read an article. Where exactly do you think the link to the article came from? From the Swiss expert. If you want to keep using the extreme example fallacies to try and divert attention from your lack of an argument, be my guest, but you've been hammered over and over and just don't seem to understand you're making yourself look foolish here.

[UNI88]

Your Swiss expert was the one who said there was no russian military presence in Donbass. When his cheese was proven to be filled with holes you moved the goalposts to another “unbiased” expert who says there were only a very small number of russian military personnel present. Do you have another expert lined up for when that’s proven wrong.

Your Swiss expert was also shown to be intellectually dishonest when he tried to intimate that the total number of fascists supporting Ukraine was equal to the numbers in the militias/guard.

The russians were in Donbass stirring sh!t up to give themselves a reason to invade.

Just can't stop, can you? Trying to desperately to get out from under the fact you put yourself in a corner by being lazy and refusing to read an article. Where exactly do you think the link to the article came from? From the Swiss expert. If you want to keep using the extreme example fallacies to try and divert attention from your lack of an argument, be my guest, but you've been hammered over and over and just don't seem to understand you're making yourself look foolish here.

Let’s hear from other CS posters - who’s looking foolish here?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SeattleGriz]

Just can't stop, can you? Trying to desperately to get out from under the fact you put yourself in a corner by being lazy and refusing to read an article. Where exactly do you think the link to the article came from? From the Swiss expert. If you want to keep using the extreme example fallacies to try and divert attention from your lack of an argument, be my guest, but you've been hammered over and over and just don't seem to understand you're making yourself look foolish here.

Let’s hear from other CS posters - who’s looking foolish here?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For sure. Let's also provide some context.

I provided a link from Jacques Baud, who's bio and link to original article is below, in which he explained the chain of events in Ukraine, from someone who actually lived and worked with the Ukrainian government to rebuild their military around 2016. You took faux umbrage within the first three paragraphs that Baud didn't know what he was talking about because he made the analogy "A bit like if putschists decided that French and Italian would no longer be official languages in Switzerland", in regards to Ukraine banning the Russian language in Ukraine.

From there, you pulled out some rando from the Daily Sceptic who, not only was never over in Ukraine, but didn't work for any of the international organizations like the UN or NATO, to try and dispel his facts. Only you apparently didn't bother to read that article either because he actually confirmed Baud's timeline of events, just differed in numbers.

You then keep doubling down, because you haven't read the article and keep attributing false statements to Baud and then try to defend your stance by using the tactic of extreme example fallacy. Here's an example. Baud, as he worked in rebuilding the Ukrainian military, stated in his article (link below) that as Ukraine was unable to fill it's ranks with volunteers, had to resort to using mercenaries and his calculations put that number at 102K, which was roughly 40% of Ukraines fighting forces. You then try to dismiss Baud as some sort of crackpot because he "lied" and said there were 102K Nazis, when he said nothing of the sort.

You didn't read Baud's article and have resorted to some of the laziest fallacies out there to try and discredit him.

Jacques Baud is a former colonel of the General Staff, ex-member of the Swiss strategic intelligence, specialist on Eastern countries. He was trained in the American and British intelligence services. He has served as Policy Chief for United Nations Peace Operations. As a UN expert on rule of law and security institutions, he designed and led the first multidimensional UN intelligence unit in the Sudan. He has worked for the African Union and was for 5 years responsible for the fight, at NATO, against the proliferation of small arms. He was involved in discussions with the highest Russian military and intelligence officials just after the fall of the USSR. Within NATO, he followed the 2014 Ukrainian crisis and later participated in programs to assist the Ukraine. He is the author of several books on intelligence, war and terrorism, in particular Le Détournement published by SIGEST and Gouverner par les fake news, L’affaire Navalny. His latest book, Poutine, maître du jeu?, is published by Max Milo

https://mronline.org/2022/04/10/the-mil ... e-ukraine/

[houndawg]

well, I guess thats true - but I was refering to the fact that Hunter Biden isn't running for office... I'll try to remember to spoon feed you in the future

You still wearing your Bibb from the feeding you took on your claim that Bojoezo got it all wrong on the vaccine preventing COVID infection

.....you seem to harbor deep resentment towards this individual in spite of the lack of evidence - while at the same time having no interest in the criminal activities of the children of the Republican nominee.

[kalm]

Just can't stop, can you? Trying to desperately to get out from under the fact you put yourself in a corner by being lazy and refusing to read an article. Where exactly do you think the link to the article came from? From the Swiss expert. If you want to keep using the extreme example fallacies to try and divert attention from your lack of an argument, be my guest, but you've been hammered over and over and just don't seem to understand you're making yourself look foolish here.

Let’s hear from other CS posters - who’s looking foolish here?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seagriz.

30% at best of Donbas were Russian speaking and less identified as Russian. Their numbers are probably lower per capita than Texans who want to secede.

He’s searching for sources looking for a Nazi excuse. There are probably as many Nazi sympathizers in the US.

I apologize for stating the obvious.

[houndawg]

Sucking up, sucking off, how would you describe their special relationship? No one knows what happened behind closed doors in Helsinki.

I don't know if putin waits if trump didn't lose in 2020. trump might have pulled the US out of NATO which would have emboldened putin even more than anything Biden did.

I think Trump would have tried to avoid this conflict by bringing them to the table whereas Biden seemed to want it to happen. I’m sure you’ll tell me that was because Trump was really just protecting his own interest and you’ll never tell me that’s exactly what Biden is doing

That's why he shook down Zelensky, so he could avoid conflict.

[SeattleGriz]

Let’s hear from other CS posters - who’s looking foolish here?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seagriz.

30% at best of Donbas were Russian speaking and less identified as Russian. Their numbers are probably lower per capita than Texans who want to secede.

He’s searching for sources looking for a Nazi excuse. There are probably as many Nazi sympathizers in the US.

I apologize for stating the obvious.

You didn't read the article either. Baud states the term "Nazi" is mostly Russian propaganda in a previous section.

These militias had been operating in the Donbass since 2014, with Western support. Even if one can argue about the term “Nazi,” the fact remains that these militias are violent, convey a nauseating ideology and are virulently anti-Semitic. Their anti-Semitism is more cultural than political, which is why the term “Nazi” is not really appropriate.

As to me looking, I was. But I was trying to figure out how The Atlantic, NYT, WaPo and others were decrying Nazis in Ukraine and then magically decided none existed after the war began.

Baud clears this all up by explaining how Ukraine needed bodies fast and resorted to mercenaries to fill their ranks. These mercenaries were the ones put on the border and the ones that were using Ukrainians as human shields early in the war. The mercenaries are the ones Putin refers to when he said he was going to denazify Ukraine.

What does your 30% Russian speaking people have to do with the price of tea in China?

[UNI88]

Found another expert for you SG ...

[SeattleGriz]

Found another expert for you SG ...

I have heard this as well, but not as a big deal...yet. Ukraine hasn't been able to even make it to Russia's first defensive line and Ukraine just keeps sending them in without air support. They're getting tired of being thrown into a meat grinder.

[Skjellyfetti]

Ukraine hasn't been able to even make it to Russia's first defensive line

Yeah, that is no longer the case. They've maintained a foothold past the Surovikin Line west of Verbove since August.

But, really, every tree line has been a defensive line with trenches that have to be cleared. But, I'm assuming when you say "first defensive line" - you're talking about the Surovikin Line.

[kalm]

Seagriz…

These are the good guys right? Just defending themselves against NATO and Nazis?

[SeattleGriz]

Seagriz…

These are the good guys right? Just defending themselves against NATO and Nazis?

Is the the new Mueller She Wrote account? You remember what your past Twitter clip surfing wrought you.

How about you get serious instead of flippant?

Did you even watch the clip? From your post, I doubt it.

[SeattleGriz]

Ukraine hasn't been able to even make it to Russia's first defensive line

Yeah, that is no longer the case. They've maintained a foothold past the Surovikin Line west of Verbove since August.

But, really, every tree line has been a defensive line with trenches that have to be cleared. But, I'm assuming when you say "first defensive line" - you're talking about the Surovikin Line.

Do you have any links on that? I've given up on the whole land movement and the Ukrainians being able to do anything of value in their assault.