Common Sense Gun Control

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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Baldy »

Col Hogan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:17 pm
houndawg wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:22 pm

Because I don't know if the Prez has the authority to tell the BATF to make it so, which he should do if he can. Its a reasonable compromise position.
The National Firearms Act of 1934, usually just referred to as the NFA, is the law that created the various classifications of weapons. The NFA does NOT regulate semiautomatic weapons, or magazine size. So, the President can’t just order BATFE to add them to the list. Congress would have to amend the NFA or pass another law adding semiautomatic weapons to “the list”, and you’re smart enough to understand that that is not going to happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Gil Dobie »

houndawg wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:00 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:06 pm

Why did obamacare mess up a lot of healthcare programs. It could have been written to help the people that needed help.

Conks shit on any idea that gives the government more control and tax avenues. How about any new gun owner needs to be trained and maybe sponsored by the trainer when purchasing a gun.
And maybe not having access to rapid-fire high-capacity semi-auto weapons. Man up and join up if you want to play Army with the real thing.
Aren't high-capacity semi-auto weapons illegal in NY, yet some one illegally modified a legal weapon. I was close to joining up, still reflect back and think it would have been a good option. I took an exam and scored well, but was offered a good job, and chose that instead.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Ibanez »

Winterborn wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:22 pm
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:59 pm And the root cause is something within our society. Something is rotten. I don't know what it is but It's awful.
It is not one thing but a combination of multitude of items. Decline of the two parent family's which bring stability to a child's upbringing, portions of the culture that glorify breaking rules and acting out against society, individuals can do no wrong as there is no rules, parts of society that encourages violence if you do not get your way or if you perceive a slight has been levied against you, glorification of violence through the 24 hour news cycle and certain video games being played by kids who are not old enough, etc..

And the above list is by no means exhaustive or correct, just what I have noticed over the years. And doing any one thing or multiple things on that list is no guarantee one will turn out "bad". There is no silver bullet regulation that is going to fix, what for all practical purposes is a "heart" problem in our society. Example is we are arguing, on this site, over what constitutes "life" and how that impacts a persons choice in life. One side wants to argue that it does not exist until it takes a breath of air and cries out, the other side says it is a human being and needs to be protected no matter what. The mere fact that this is up for a debate in its self is telling of a deeper condition in our society. Why not err on the side of caution after a certain point and support expectant mothers to carry to term and place it up for adoption? Blatant dis-regard for innocent life has always led to a societies downfall. Will this lead to ours? Not immediately I think but it is not a good sign and we as a society need to do some self-reflection in many, many areas, IMHO.

I realize that I fall pretty far onto one side of the above debate and that has very likely (almost certainly) colored my opinion on matters pertaining to the topic of were we are sociality speaking. One rule that I have always tried to keep in mind in separating my personal beliefs from my political beliefs is that: One cannot legislate morality". It did not work for Prohibition, drugs, prostitution, or a myriad of other things the government has tried to ban. Nor will it work for guns and shootings. I do not know the full answer but that the solution starts with individuals choosing to make a hard choice and agree to disagree and buy that person you just got done arguing with a beer, or mowing a neighbors lawn when they are out on vacation even though his dog craps in your yard. We are too quick to judge and not fast enough to forgive and forget. And I am just as guilty of that as the next person.
I personally think it's GWAR, NWA and Marilyn Manson. :coffee:

You said one of my most common talking points - One cannot legislate morality. This is why so many laws are toothless, regardless of enforcement. You cannot legislate someone into being a good, responsible, safe, accountable, honorable person. Our society as a whole has gotten rotten, less compassionate, less empathetic and less reasonable.

It's time for a constitutional convention where privacy, term limits, balanced budget, and more are on the table. Let us amend our Constitution for the 21st Century.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by houndawg »

Gil Dobie wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:51 am
houndawg wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:00 am

And maybe not having access to rapid-fire high-capacity semi-auto weapons. Man up and join up if you want to play Army with the real thing.
Aren't high-capacity semi-auto weapons illegal in NY, yet some one illegally modified a legal weapon. I was close to joining up, still reflect back and think it would have been a good option. I took an exam and scored well, but was offered a good job, and chose that instead.
I don't live in NY, don't know. I'm sure we'll hear all the usual reasons why we can't stop this from happening in the only country where it happens regularly.

You know what I'd like to see? Pictures of the slaughter released to the public, in the spirit of Emmitt Till's mother. Let the public see what an AR can do to a child and why parents are having to give dna samples to identify their kid and then let the shit-eater Republicans explain why the status quo is the only way forward. :ohno:
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by houndawg »

SDHornet wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:57 pm Repeal the 2nd Amendment, or shut the fuck up. That's my stance on "common sense gun control". :coffee:
The shit-eaters usual one-note samba :coffee:
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by houndawg »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:30 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:12 pm

Donks control every branch of government. Why have they not solved this problem yet? :coffee:
B/c they don't and you know that. B/c Donks and Republicans take turns at either being the Party of No Ideas or the Party of Bad Ideas.

Perhaps we should listen to our founding father Jefferson and renew our constitution every generation. 2A might get reaffirmed....we might put term limits in for Congress...hell we could go crazy and take away Due Process.
We already have, we just haven't completed the process. Takes time, but Youtube is filled with videos of our brave LEOs showing us our George Floydian future. :coffee:
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:24 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:05 pm

But abortion is still cool though right?
Abortion is an abomination but should be legal. What's your point?
Right, because killing them in the womb is fine. Killing them after is a crime. Makes perfect sense.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by houndawg »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:38 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:24 am
Abortion is an abomination but should be legal. What's your point?
Right, because killing them in the womb is fine. Killing them after is a crime. Makes perfect sense.
You always have the most idiotic analogies. :coffee:
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:38 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:24 am
Abortion is an abomination but should be legal. What's your point?
Right, because killing them in the womb is fine. Killing them after is a crime. Makes perfect sense.
It doesn't but who am I to say that someone shouldn't make that decision for themselves if they've been raped.

I'm as hypocritical as those gun and bible toting Christians that want to ban abortion but are ok with the death penalty. Pro-life shouldn't have exceptions, IMO. You're either for preserving all life or you aren't.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by AZGrizFan »

houndawg wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:42 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:38 am

Right, because killing them in the womb is fine. Killing them after is a crime. Makes perfect sense.
You always have the most idiotic analogies. :coffee:
There’s nothing idiotic about it. Dems are fine with killing 600,000 kids a year by doctors, but go apoplectic about 18 being killed by a mentally deranged idiot.

Even YOU should be able to figure out the giant hypocrisy in those two positions.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:45 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:38 am

Right, because killing them in the womb is fine. Killing them after is a crime. Makes perfect sense.
It doesn't but who am I to say that someone shouldn't make that decision for themselves if they've been raped.

I'm as hypocritical as those gun and bible toting Christians that want to ban abortion but are ok with the death penalty. Pro-life shouldn't have exceptions, IMO. You're either for preserving all life or you aren't.
Equating abortion and the death penalty is a giant straw man, Mark. Children in the womb have done nothing wrong. Those who’s lives are ended with the death penalty? Not so much….
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:10 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:45 am

It doesn't but who am I to say that someone shouldn't make that decision for themselves if they've been raped.

I'm as hypocritical as those gun and bible toting Christians that want to ban abortion but are ok with the death penalty. Pro-life shouldn't have exceptions, IMO. You're either for preserving all life or you aren't.
Equating abortion and the death penalty is a giant straw man, Mark. Children in the womb have done nothing wrong. Those who’s lives are ended with the death penalty? Not so much….
duplicate...
Last edited by Ibanez on Thu May 26, 2022 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:10 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:45 am

It doesn't but who am I to say that someone shouldn't make that decision for themselves if they've been raped.

I'm as hypocritical as those gun and bible toting Christians that want to ban abortion but are ok with the death penalty. Pro-life shouldn't have exceptions, IMO. You're either for preserving all life or you aren't.
Equating abortion and the death penalty is a giant straw man, Mark. Children in the womb have done nothing wrong. Those who’s lives are ended with the death penalty? Not so much….
It's a life. There are plenty of Pro-Life people ,(I think 89 is one of them) who are anti-abortion and anti-death penalty because they recognize that.


You know who else did nothing wrong - the victims of school shootings. Yet we treat 2A as if it's more important than innocent human lives. The fact that there's no room for gun reform coming from the Right proves that point. There's no room for debate. We'll have to settle for 21 more dead people and thoughtless comments like, " It could've been worse."

Gun reform doesn't have to infringe on your ability to legally acquire a gun or ammunition but It could be drafted to make sure someone with mental health issues, no training and/or a history with state and local police are given a second look. 2A doesn't have to change, although the circumstances surrounding it have certainly changed, but we can legislate in a way that preserves that right while at the same time reducing how many fall into the wrong hands. Instead of actually having a fruitful discussion the "debate" is always the following:

Republican - Repeal 2A or STFU
Democrat - Ban guns!

Neither position is helpful nor realistic. There's a middle ground there if only we'd get off our high horses and actually listen to one another and our concerns. Your concerns about gun reform aren't any more valid or invalid than mine.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:30 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:10 am

Equating abortion and the death penalty is a giant straw man, Mark. Children in the womb have done nothing wrong. Those who’s lives are ended with the death penalty? Not so much….
It's a life. There are plenty of Pro-Life people ,(I think 89 is one of them) who are anti-abortion and anti-death penalty because they recognize that.


You know who else did nothing wrong - the victims of school shootings. Yet we treat 2A as if it's more important than innocent human lives. The fact that there's no room for gun reform coming from the Right proves that point. There's no room for debate. We'll have to settle for 21 more dead people and thoughtless comments like, " It could've been worse."

Gun reform doesn't have to infringe on your ability to legally acquire a gun or ammunition but It could be drafted to make sure someone with mental health issues, no training and/or a history with state and local police are given a second look. 2A doesn't have to change, although the circumstances surrounding it have certainly changed, but we can legislate in a way that preserves that right while at the same time reducing how many fall into the wrong hands. Instead of actually having a fruitful discussion the "debate" is always the following:

Republican - Repeal 2A or STFU
Democrat - Ban guns!

Neither position is helpful nor realistic. There's a middle ground there if only we'd get off our high horses and actually listen to one another and our concerns. Your concerns about gun reform aren't any more valid or invalid than mine.
No, those victims did nothing wrong either….but I don’t see anybody on the left wailing in the streets over the 600,000 children that are aborted every year. Because THAT is all about “choice”, somehow. THOSE kids didn’t get a choice either, much like the kids in Uvalde yesterday.

And “gun reform” (such a nice, polite way to put it) doesn’t solve THE PROBLEM. Y’all want to keep attacking the symptom and not the problem. Guns, and the 2A are NOT the enemy. They are not the issue. They are merely the mechanism by which the evil is delivered. Could be a car driven through a crowd, could be a dirty bomb, could be you lock them all inside and set the school on fire, could be a shitload of other ways…the evil STILL exists. Guns or no guns.

And there’s 10,000 laws already on the books that didn’t stop this shooting. Exactly what solution or “common sense gun reform” changes would you be advocating?
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:08 am
Winterborn wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:22 pm

It is not one thing but a combination of multitude of items. Decline of the two parent family's which bring stability to a child's upbringing, portions of the culture that glorify breaking rules and acting out against society, individuals can do no wrong as there is no rules, parts of society that encourages violence if you do not get your way or if you perceive a slight has been levied against you, glorification of violence through the 24 hour news cycle and certain video games being played by kids who are not old enough, etc..

And the above list is by no means exhaustive or correct, just what I have noticed over the years. And doing any one thing or multiple things on that list is no guarantee one will turn out "bad". There is no silver bullet regulation that is going to fix, what for all practical purposes is a "heart" problem in our society. Example is we are arguing, on this site, over what constitutes "life" and how that impacts a persons choice in life. One side wants to argue that it does not exist until it takes a breath of air and cries out, the other side says it is a human being and needs to be protected no matter what. The mere fact that this is up for a debate in its self is telling of a deeper condition in our society. Why not err on the side of caution after a certain point and support expectant mothers to carry to term and place it up for adoption? Blatant dis-regard for innocent life has always led to a societies downfall. Will this lead to ours? Not immediately I think but it is not a good sign and we as a society need to do some self-reflection in many, many areas, IMHO.

I realize that I fall pretty far onto one side of the above debate and that has very likely (almost certainly) colored my opinion on matters pertaining to the topic of were we are sociality speaking. One rule that I have always tried to keep in mind in separating my personal beliefs from my political beliefs is that: One cannot legislate morality". It did not work for Prohibition, drugs, prostitution, or a myriad of other things the government has tried to ban. Nor will it work for guns and shootings. I do not know the full answer but that the solution starts with individuals choosing to make a hard choice and agree to disagree and buy that person you just got done arguing with a beer, or mowing a neighbors lawn when they are out on vacation even though his dog craps in your yard. We are too quick to judge and not fast enough to forgive and forget. And I am just as guilty of that as the next person.
I personally think it's GWAR, NWA and Marilyn Manson. :coffee:

You said one of my most common talking points - One cannot legislate morality. This is why so many laws are toothless, regardless of enforcement. You cannot legislate someone into being a good, responsible, safe, accountable, honorable person. Our society as a whole has gotten rotten, less compassionate, less empathetic and less reasonable.

It's time for a constitutional convention where privacy, term limits, balanced budget, and more are on the table. Let us amend our Constitution for the 21st Century.
All of fucking this. Well said, Mark.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Winterborn »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:08 am
Winterborn wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:22 pm

It is not one thing but a combination of multitude of items. Decline of the two parent family's which bring stability to a child's upbringing, portions of the culture that glorify breaking rules and acting out against society, individuals can do no wrong as there is no rules, parts of society that encourages violence if you do not get your way or if you perceive a slight has been levied against you, glorification of violence through the 24 hour news cycle and certain video games being played by kids who are not old enough, etc..

And the above list is by no means exhaustive or correct, just what I have noticed over the years. And doing any one thing or multiple things on that list is no guarantee one will turn out "bad". There is no silver bullet regulation that is going to fix, what for all practical purposes is a "heart" problem in our society. Example is we are arguing, on this site, over what constitutes "life" and how that impacts a persons choice in life. One side wants to argue that it does not exist until it takes a breath of air and cries out, the other side says it is a human being and needs to be protected no matter what. The mere fact that this is up for a debate in its self is telling of a deeper condition in our society. Why not err on the side of caution after a certain point and support expectant mothers to carry to term and place it up for adoption? Blatant dis-regard for innocent life has always led to a societies downfall. Will this lead to ours? Not immediately I think but it is not a good sign and we as a society need to do some self-reflection in many, many areas, IMHO.

I realize that I fall pretty far onto one side of the above debate and that has very likely (almost certainly) colored my opinion on matters pertaining to the topic of were we are sociality speaking. One rule that I have always tried to keep in mind in separating my personal beliefs from my political beliefs is that: One cannot legislate morality". It did not work for Prohibition, drugs, prostitution, or a myriad of other things the government has tried to ban. Nor will it work for guns and shootings. I do not know the full answer but that the solution starts with individuals choosing to make a hard choice and agree to disagree and buy that person you just got done arguing with a beer, or mowing a neighbors lawn when they are out on vacation even though his dog craps in your yard. We are too quick to judge and not fast enough to forgive and forget. And I am just as guilty of that as the next person.
I personally think it's GWAR, NWA and Marilyn Manson. :coffee:

You said one of my most common talking points - One cannot legislate morality. This is why so many laws are toothless, regardless of enforcement. You cannot legislate someone into being a good, responsible, safe, accountable, honorable person. Our society as a whole has gotten rotten, less compassionate, less empathetic and less reasonable.

It's time for a constitutional convention where privacy, term limits, balanced budget, and more are on the table. Let us amend our Constitution for the 21st Century.
They are a good start. Could also add Elvis, (that hip shaking thing was scandalous). :ohno:

I am not as excited to open up a constitutional convention. Mainly due to the fact who is going to be representatives and the fact there will be massive pressure (i.e. bribes) offered to influence their votes/thoughts.

And who is going to go to said constituional
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Gil Dobie »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:38 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:30 am

It's a life. There are plenty of Pro-Life people ,(I think 89 is one of them) who are anti-abortion and anti-death penalty because they recognize that.


You know who else did nothing wrong - the victims of school shootings. Yet we treat 2A as if it's more important than innocent human lives. The fact that there's no room for gun reform coming from the Right proves that point. There's no room for debate. We'll have to settle for 21 more dead people and thoughtless comments like, " It could've been worse."

Gun reform doesn't have to infringe on your ability to legally acquire a gun or ammunition but It could be drafted to make sure someone with mental health issues, no training and/or a history with state and local police are given a second look. 2A doesn't have to change, although the circumstances surrounding it have certainly changed, but we can legislate in a way that preserves that right while at the same time reducing how many fall into the wrong hands. Instead of actually having a fruitful discussion the "debate" is always the following:

Republican - Repeal 2A or STFU
Democrat - Ban guns!

Neither position is helpful nor realistic. There's a middle ground there if only we'd get off our high horses and actually listen to one another and our concerns. Your concerns about gun reform aren't any more valid or invalid than mine.
No, those victims did nothing wrong either….but I don’t see anybody on the left wailing in the streets over the 600,000 children that are aborted every year. Because THAT is all about “choice”, somehow. THOSE kids didn’t get a choice either, much like the kids in Uvalde yesterday.

And “gun reform” (such a nice, polite way to put it) doesn’t solve THE PROBLEM. Y’all want to keep attacking the symptom and not the problem. Guns, and the 2A are NOT the enemy. They are not the issue. They are merely the mechanism by which the evil is delivered. Could be a car driven through a crowd, could be a dirty bomb, could be you lock them all inside and set the school on fire, could be a shitload of other ways…the evil STILL exists. Guns or no guns.

And there’s 10,000 laws already on the books that didn’t stop this shooting. Exactly what solution or “common sense gun reform” changes would you be advocating?
I'm glad someone else realizes it's a symptom.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Gil Dobie »

houndawg wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:27 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:51 am

Aren't high-capacity semi-auto weapons illegal in NY, yet some one illegally modified a legal weapon. I was close to joining up, still reflect back and think it would have been a good option. I took an exam and scored well, but was offered a good job, and chose that instead.
I don't live in NY, don't know. I'm sure we'll hear all the usual reasons why we can't stop this from happening in the only country where it happens regularly.

You know what I'd like to see? Pictures of the slaughter released to the public, in the spirit of Emmitt Till's mother. Let the public see what an AR can do to a child and why parents are having to give dna samples to identify their kid and then let the shit-eater Republicans explain why the status quo is the only way forward. :ohno:
I would like to see the name of the shooter with-held from the media, and not be publicized. You can keep blaming it on Republicans, but it's a societal issue. When I was a juror, they showed us pictures of the burned victim that was shot in the head. They didn't show us enough evidence to convict the person on trial. Shock and awe doesn't always work.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by AZGrizFan »

It’s pretty simple. Once again, you have a kid who wasn’t living with or raised by his parents. Absent parent households account for somewhere north of 90% of these shooters…..it ain’t rocket science.

But remember: promotion or celebration of the nuclear family concept is now considered “racist”.

The other primary issue? Access to massive amounts of information and the ability to envelope oneself in an information “bubble” that magnifies, confirms and justifies one’s “hatred”.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Winterborn »

In the Buffalo shooting the gun was purchased legally and NY also has a Red Flag law on the books. Several of the more recent shootings the individuals were prohibited from owning firearms and had them taken away but family gave them back before they committed the shootings.

The Assault Weapon ban of the mid 90's did nothing to changed the amount or nature of mass shootings. No amount of limiting magazines, types of stocks, etc. is going to cut down on what is clearly a mental health issue. In fact most school shootings have been done by individuals under 21 years old. If one wants to propose limiting the ability to purchase till after that age, good luck as the Supreme Court has already shot that one down as infringement of the 2A.

A national "Red Flag" law is also never going to pass due to many venues for abuse (nor would I support such a bill). If states want to pass one, they are free to do so, but it will not lessen the frequency of these events.


Reason has a good article highlighitng some of the problems with the most common "solutions" mentioned here and elsewhere for these types of issues.
Despite their practical limitations, expanded background checks are highly popular (although not quite as popular as Schumer suggested). A 2021 Morning Consult poll found that 84 percent of voters, including 91 percent of Democrats and 77 percent of Republicans, agreed that background checks should be required for all gun sales.

Schumer thinks the popularity of expanded background checks shows they are a "common sense" response to mass shootings. But this would not be the first time that "common sense" was wrong. "It's one thing to say that, regardless of the facts, you should just do something," Sen. Mike Rounds (R–S.D.) observed. "The question is whether something you would do would actually make a difference."

Even when it comes to the much larger category of gun homicides, there is little evidence that broad background-check laws "actually make a difference." A 2019 study found that California's 1991 expansion of background checks "was not associated with a net change in the firearm homicide rate over the ensuing 10 years."

...

In a 2017 column that The New York Times republished in response to the Uvalde massacre, Nicholas Kristof, who supports new restrictions on firearms (including expanded background checks), notes that "the 10-year ban on assault weapons accomplished little, partly because definitions were about cosmetic features like bayonet mounts (and partly because even before the ban, such guns were used in only 2 percent of crimes)." Mary McCord, executive director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection at Georgetown University Law Center, glides over those points in another Time opinion piece published today, conflating arbitrarily defined "assault weapons" with "semiautomatic weapons," a much broader category that encompasses most handguns and many rifles that would not be covered by the ban that Biden supports.
https://reason.com/2022/05/25/in-respon ... trol-laws/
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Winterborn »

Gil Dobie wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 7:14 am
houndawg wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:27 am

I don't live in NY, don't know. I'm sure we'll hear all the usual reasons why we can't stop this from happening in the only country where it happens regularly.

You know what I'd like to see? Pictures of the slaughter released to the public, in the spirit of Emmitt Till's mother. Let the public see what an AR can do to a child and why parents are having to give dna samples to identify their kid and then let the shit-eater Republicans explain why the status quo is the only way forward. :ohno:
I would like to see the name of the shooter with-held from the media, and not be publicized. You can keep blaming it on Republicans, but it's a societal issue. When I was a juror, they showed us pictures of the burned victim that was shot in the head. They didn't show us enough evidence to convict the person on trial. Shock and awe doesn't always work.
Agree. Would be fine with a media blackout on these types of things outside of what happened and where with the bare minimum of details.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Ibanez »

Winterborn wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:52 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:08 am

I personally think it's GWAR, NWA and Marilyn Manson. :coffee:

You said one of my most common talking points - One cannot legislate morality. This is why so many laws are toothless, regardless of enforcement. You cannot legislate someone into being a good, responsible, safe, accountable, honorable person. Our society as a whole has gotten rotten, less compassionate, less empathetic and less reasonable.

It's time for a constitutional convention where privacy, term limits, balanced budget, and more are on the table. Let us amend our Constitution for the 21st Century.
They are a good start. Could also add Elvis, (that hip shaking thing was scandalous). :ohno:

I am not as excited to open up a constitutional convention. Mainly due to the fact who is going to be representatives and the fact there will be massive pressure (i.e. bribes) offered to influence their votes/thoughts.

And who is going to go to said constituional
That's all fair and valid but on the flip said - we're happy being governed by a document written by people who have not had to face our modern challenges?

I think we chose delegates from out state (or the from the state legislature?) as to who goes.

And Elvis is certainly a problem. That hip shaking rock n roller. :evil:
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 7:23 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:52 am

They are a good start. Could also add Elvis, (that hip shaking thing was scandalous). :ohno:

I am not as excited to open up a constitutional convention. Mainly due to the fact who is going to be representatives and the fact there will be massive pressure (i.e. bribes) offered to influence their votes/thoughts.

And who is going to go to said constituional
That's all fair and valid but on the flip said - we're happy being governed by a document written by people who have not had to face our modern challenges?

And Elvis is certainly a problem. That hip shaking rock n roller. :evil:
That heathen started this whoooooole thing.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:38 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:30 am

It's a life. There are plenty of Pro-Life people ,(I think 89 is one of them) who are anti-abortion and anti-death penalty because they recognize that.


You know who else did nothing wrong - the victims of school shootings. Yet we treat 2A as if it's more important than innocent human lives. The fact that there's no room for gun reform coming from the Right proves that point. There's no room for debate. We'll have to settle for 21 more dead people and thoughtless comments like, " It could've been worse."

Gun reform doesn't have to infringe on your ability to legally acquire a gun or ammunition but It could be drafted to make sure someone with mental health issues, no training and/or a history with state and local police are given a second look. 2A doesn't have to change, although the circumstances surrounding it have certainly changed, but we can legislate in a way that preserves that right while at the same time reducing how many fall into the wrong hands. Instead of actually having a fruitful discussion the "debate" is always the following:

Republican - Repeal 2A or STFU
Democrat - Ban guns!

Neither position is helpful nor realistic. There's a middle ground there if only we'd get off our high horses and actually listen to one another and our concerns. Your concerns about gun reform aren't any more valid or invalid than mine.
No, those victims did nothing wrong either….but I don’t see anybody on the left wailing in the streets over the 600,000 children that are aborted every year. Because THAT is all about “choice”, somehow. THOSE kids didn’t get a choice either, much like the kids in Uvalde yesterday.

And “gun reform” (such a nice, polite way to put it) doesn’t solve THE PROBLEM. Y’all want to keep attacking the symptom and not the problem. Guns, and the 2A are NOT the enemy. They are not the issue. They are merely the mechanism by which the evil is delivered. Could be a car driven through a crowd, could be a dirty bomb, could be you lock them all inside and set the school on fire, could be a shitload of other ways…the evil STILL exists. Guns or no guns.

And there’s 10,000 laws already on the books that didn’t stop this shooting. Exactly what solution or “common sense gun reform” changes would you be advocating?
I don't see Republicans wailing over children being gunned down during 2nd period. Does the GOP not care if children are safe in school? Or people aren't safe doing their Sunday grocery shopping? They want to ban Harry Potter books and The DaVinci Code b/c they hurt their sensibilities but to make it more difficult for a mentally ill person to legally gain access to a lethal weapon is a bridge too far. Words hurt more than bullets.

I'm not sure who the "y'all" is b/c i've said many times here the symptom is societal. You're kidding yourself if you don't believe access to guns has any correlation to gun violence.

And nobody is saying evil still won't exist, that's a stupid line to make.
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Re: Common Sense Gun Control

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 7:27 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 7:23 am That's all fair and valid but on the flip said - we're happy being governed by a document written by people who have not had to face our modern challenges?

And Elvis is certainly a problem. That hip shaking rock n roller. :evil:
That heathen started this whoooooole thing.
Oh I think it goes further back but he certainly is a blame by popularizing black music and shaking his hips on stage...getting all those school girls hot and bothered.
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