Common Sense Gun Control

[BDKJMU]

Oh, I know what BDK was referring to, but clearly the right of the people peaceably to assemble (using the actual phrase in the Constitution) has always referred to people (i.e. more than just an individual) gathering together for a purpose. It's always been about more than one person standing on a street corner with a sign.

I can name another Constitutional Right that requires a permit and money- you have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon, as long as you get a permit and pay the fee.

Not required in the 25 states that allow for Constitutional Carry.

[93henfan]

I can name another Constitutional Right that requires a permit and money- you have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon, as long as you get a permit and pay the fee.

Not required in the 25 states that allow for Constitutional Carry.

Soon to be 50 when the Bruen decision comes down.

[Winterborn]

And the root cause is something within our society. Something is rotten. I don't know what it is but It's awful.

It is not one thing but a combination of multitude of items. Decline of the two parent family's which bring stability to a child's upbringing, portions of the culture that glorify breaking rules and acting out against society, individuals can do no wrong as there is no rules, parts of society that encourages violence if you do not get your way or if you perceive a slight has been levied against you, glorification of violence through the 24 hour news cycle and certain video games being played by kids who are not old enough, etc..

And the above list is by no means exhaustive or correct, just what I have noticed over the years. And doing any one thing or multiple things on that list is no guarantee one will turn out "bad". There is no silver bullet regulation that is going to fix, what for all practical purposes is a "heart" problem in our society. Example is we are arguing, on this site, over what constitutes "life" and how that impacts a persons choice in life. One side wants to argue that it does not exist until it takes a breath of air and cries out, the other side says it is a human being and needs to be protected no matter what. The mere fact that this is up for a debate in its self is telling of a deeper condition in our society. Why not err on the side of caution after a certain point and support expectant mothers to carry to term and place it up for adoption? Blatant dis-regard for innocent life has always led to a societies downfall. Will this lead to ours? Not immediately I think but it is not a good sign and we as a society need to do some self-reflection in many, many areas, IMHO.

I realize that I fall pretty far onto one side of the above debate and that has very likely (almost certainly) colored my opinion on matters pertaining to the topic of were we are sociality speaking. One rule that I have always tried to keep in mind in separating my personal beliefs from my political beliefs is that: One cannot legislate morality". It did not work for Prohibition, drugs, prostitution, or a myriad of other things the government has tried to ban. Nor will it work for guns and shootings. I do not know the full answer but that the solution starts with individuals choosing to make a hard choice and agree to disagree and buy that person you just got done arguing with a beer, or mowing a neighbors lawn when they are out on vacation even though his dog craps in your yard. We are too quick to judge and not fast enough to forgive and forget. And I am just as guilty of that as the next person.

[Col Hogan]

Oh, I know what BDK was referring to, but clearly the right of the people peaceably to assemble (using the actual phrase in the Constitution) has always referred to people (i.e. more than just an individual) gathering together for a purpose. It's always been about more than one person standing on a street corner with a sign.

I can name another Constitutional Right that requires a permit and money- you have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon, as long as you get a permit and pay the fee.

25 states no longer require a permit or license to carry open or concealed as long as you can legally possess a weapon

[houndawg]

I didn't suggest that BATF make the law.

You said

The death toll in these shootings can be reduced by ordering the BATF to put semi-auto weapons with removable magazines into the same category as machine guns

You said nothing about creating new law

Because I don't know if the Prez has the authority to tell the BATF to make it so, which he should do if he can. Its a reasonable compromise position.

[houndawg]

The death toll in these shootings can be reduced by ordering the BATF to put semi-auto weapons with removable magazines into the same category as machine guns - the owner must be bonded, insured, pass a proctological background check, and cough up for the permit. Mandatory 15 years if you're caught without.

Well, by your definition, the vast majority of guns in America today would meet that definition and fall under the conditions you propose. I don't necessarily have a problem with that but let's be clear that most guns, and most handguns, meet that definition.

Next, what you're proposing (bonding, insurance, and paying for a permit) would mean that gun ownership, legal gun ownership to be specific, would skew dramatically to the affluent. Poor people, or even just ordinary Americans, couldn't afford those costs. I don't necessarily have a problem with that but let's be clear, that path you advocate would mean guns are for the wealthy.

Finally, the mandatory 15 years if you get caught with a gun without the other criteria being met. As Gil pointed out, murderous, suicidal mass shooters aren't concerned with jail time. And you don't even need to be suicidal - the lunatic in Buffalo was like the other one in Charleston - they appear to be fine with life in prison. You would also have to be ready for the charges of racism as, like with the war on drugs, a war on guns would disproportionately impact young, male, Black people. You would have another generation of young Black men lost to the prison system as they get caught with guns as the vast majority of non-suicide-related gun deaths today are in the Black community and cities.

I'm good with universal background checks. I'm good with requiring insurance. And I'm good with requiring a permit. The latter two are going to be the controversial ones. And the first one isn't going to do very much to stop these tragedies from happening. Most mass shootings aren't by repeat offenders who would fail a background check.

That path already exists for full-auto weapons - I'm suggesting we add high-capacity semi-auto rifles and pistols to that existing category. Not revolvers, not bolt-action or lever-action rifles or autoloaders with with tube magazines or non-removable magazines. The government buys back a la cash for clunkers or you cough up for the special license. Parents having to give dna samples because their kid was blown apart beyond recognition is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me.

[houndawg]

Well, by your definition, the vast majority of guns in America today would meet that definition and fall under the conditions you propose. I don't necessarily have a problem with that but let's be clear that most guns, and most handguns, meet that definition.

Next, what you're proposing (bonding, insurance, and paying for a permit) would mean that gun ownership, legal gun ownership to be specific, would skew dramatically to the affluent. Poor people, or even just ordinary Americans, couldn't afford those costs. I don't necessarily have a problem with that but let's be clear, that path you advocate would mean guns are for the wealthy.

Finally, the mandatory 15 years if you get caught with a gun without the other criteria being met. As Gil pointed out, murderous, suicidal mass shooters aren't concerned with jail time. And you don't even need to be suicidal - the lunatic in Buffalo was like the other one in Charleston - they appear to be fine with life in prison. You would also have to be ready for the charges of racism as, like with the war on drugs, a war on guns would disproportionately impact young, male, Black people. You would have another generation of young Black men lost to the prison system as they get caught with guns as the vast majority of non-suicide-related gun deaths today are in the Black community and cities.

I'm good with universal background checks. I'm good with requiring insurance. And I'm good with requiring a permit. The latter two are going to be the controversial ones. And the first one isn't going to do very much to stop these tragedies from happening. Most mass shootings aren't by repeat offenders who would fail a background check.

What other rConstitutional right requires insurance, a permit to exercise it, etc…


Repeal the Second Amendment, or STFU!!!

You're barking up the wrong tree Colonel - moving weapons to a different BATF category that already exists is not about the 2nd amendment

[houndawg]

What other rConstitutional right requires insurance, a permit to exercise it, etc…


Repeal the Second Amendment, or STFU!!!

There are no Constitutional rights that are without restriction. Free speech isn't absolute. Neither is the right to assemble. And on and on. I know you enjoy your pithy "repeal or STFU" but I'd think you're better than that. The second amendment isn't absolute, we already have laws on the books that ban certain weapons (i.e. fully automatic weapons are banned without having to repeal the second amendment). There are already restrictions on all freedoms, the work comes in the nuance to determine what restrictions are needed and how the implementation of those restrictions work, especially with regard to the consequences of those restrictions.

They are not banned, they require a special license - exactly what I'm suggesting for high-capacity semi-auto weapons

[houndawg]

The death toll in these shootings can be reduced by ordering the BATF to put semi-auto weapons with removable magazines into the same category as machine guns - the owner must be bonded, insured, pass a proctological background check, and cough up for the permit. Mandatory 15 years if you're caught without.

And how about some recognition for the brave chidren out there who lay down their lives on a daily basis to protect second amendment rights of those unfit for militia service?

There’s this thing called the 2nd Amendment. Guess you haven’t heard of it. 80+ million gun owners/400-500 million privately owmed guns in the US. The majority of us who lost our guns in boating accidents would not comply with such an unconstituional meausre, and the majority of law enforcement wouldn’t attempt to enforce it.

Shut up, you stupid twat.

If my dog were a stupid as you I'd trade him for a cat and shoot the cat

[Col Hogan]

You said


You said nothing about creating new law

Because I don't know if the Prez has the authority to tell the BATF to make it so, which he should do if he can. Its a reasonable compromise position.

The National Firearms Act of 1934, usually just referred to as the NFA, is the law that created the various classifications of weapons. The NFA does NOT regulate semiautomatic weapons, or magazine size. So, the President can’t just order BATFE to add them to the list. Congress would have to amend the NFA or pass another law adding semiautomatic weapons to “the list”, and you’re smart enough to understand that that is not going to happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

[Skjellyfetti]

Conks just shit on any idea related to this topic. They have no ideas themselves at all. Much like healthcare. Zilch. Nada.

It's easy to criticize an idea on a complicated topic as imperfect (there is no perfect solution). Much harder to put forward your own ideas.

[Skjellyfetti]

These threads always remind me of the classic Onion headline.

'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

[Gil Dobie]

Conks just shit on any idea related to this topic. They have no ideas themselves at all. Much like healthcare. Zilch. Nada.

It's easy to criticize an idea on a complicated topic as imperfect (there is no perfect solution). Much harder to put forward your own ideas.

Why did obamacare mess up a lot of healthcare programs. It could have been written to help the people that needed help.

Conks shit on any idea that gives the government more control and tax avenues. How about any new gun owner needs to be trained and maybe sponsored by the trainer when purchasing a gun.

[AZGrizFan]

Conks just shit on any idea related to this topic. They have no ideas themselves at all. Much like healthcare. Zilch. Nada.

It's easy to criticize an idea on a complicated topic as imperfect (there is no perfect solution). Much harder to put forward your own ideas.

And donks insist on trying to solve a symptom instead of addressing the root causes. Much harder to address the root causes.

But remember: The nuclear family is now considered “racist”. THAT is the kind of shit that leads ultimately to events like this.

[SDHornet]

Repeal the 2nd Amendment, or shut the fuck up. That's my stance on "common sense gun control".

[SDHornet]

You didn't ask me that question. You usually have to pay a fee to peacefully assemble. You can just go and protest outside a school. But many places, for large scale protests or assemblies, require permits and payment. Due Process also isn't free - court fees at a minimum exist.

But that's a straw man argument, IMO. Your position is basically, we are stuck with an 18th Century law so deal with it. The right to own a firearm isn't above another's right to live.

Is the right to own, say, an automobile, not above the right of another to live…we jut had four people killed by a wrong-way driver in northern Texas…and my own 9 year old son was killed by a car…what about his rights?

And to be accurate, the 2nd Amendment is not a “law”…it is part of the basic foundation of all our laws…So, I’ll put it less blunt…

Repeal the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, or figure out how to cure this evil without attacking the legal ownership of an inanimate object that never commits evil acts…

Man that's awful. Sorry to hear that Col.

[SDHornet]

Is the right to own, say, an automobile, not above the right of another to live…we jut had four people killed by a wrong-way driver in northern Texas…and my own 9 year old son was killed by a car…what about his rights?

And to be accurate, the 2nd Amendment is not a “law”…it is part of the basic foundation of all our laws…So, I’ll put it less blunt…

Repeal the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, or figure out how to cure this evil without attacking the legal ownership of an inanimate object that never commits evil acts…

The right to own an automobile wasn't in the Bill of Rights. Regardless, nobody has the right to infringe the Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness of another individual. We should take care to adjust our laws and if need me amend our constitution, accordingly. Like I said before, it isn't a Appeal or STFU solution. The solution comes from all sides of the problem, the least of which is the tool.

I didn't say 2A was a law. It's a right but it's been constantly abused and has brought tragedy upon tragedy to families. You're so wrapped up in the usual argument that you're assuming you know my position (aside from me stating that I support the 2A).

But abortion is still cool though right?

[SDHornet]

Conks just shit on any idea related to this topic. They have no ideas themselves at all. Much like healthcare. Zilch. Nada.

It's easy to criticize an idea on a complicated topic as imperfect (there is no perfect solution). Much harder to put forward your own ideas.

Donks control every branch of government. Why have they not solved this problem yet?

[houndawg]

Because I don't know if the Prez has the authority to tell the BATF to make it so, which he should do if he can. Its a reasonable compromise position.

The National Firearms Act of 1934, usually just referred to as the NFA, is the law that created the various classifications of weapons. The NFA does NOT regulate semiautomatic weapons, or magazine size. So, the President can’t just order BATFE to add them to the list. Congress would have to amend the NFA or pass another law adding semiautomatic weapons to “the list”, and you’re smart enough to understand that that is not going to happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

Well I guess we'll just have to live with kids shot up beyond recognition so that those too weak or stupid to qualify for military service or their State militia can have their participation trophy AR. I think serious consideration should be given to showing the pictures of the aftermath - let the nation see what an AR does to a 10 year old.

[houndawg]

Conks just shit on any idea related to this topic. They have no ideas themselves at all. Much like healthcare. Zilch. Nada.

It's easy to criticize an idea on a complicated topic as imperfect (there is no perfect solution). Much harder to put forward your own ideas.

Donks control every branch of government. Why have they not solved this problem yet?

filibuster.

Is it Dumb Cunt's Day again already? Where did the time go?

[houndawg]

Conks just shit on any idea related to this topic. They have no ideas themselves at all. Much like healthcare. Zilch. Nada.

It's easy to criticize an idea on a complicated topic as imperfect (there is no perfect solution). Much harder to put forward your own ideas.

Why did obamacare mess up a lot of healthcare programs. It could have been written to help the people that needed help.

Conks shit on any idea that gives the government more control and tax avenues. How about any new gun owner needs to be trained and maybe sponsored by the trainer when purchasing a gun.

And maybe not having access to rapid-fire high-capacity semi-auto weapons. Man up and join up if you want to play Army with the real thing.

[houndawg]

Conks just shit on any idea related to this topic. They have no ideas themselves at all. Much like healthcare. Zilch. Nada.

It's easy to criticize an idea on a complicated topic as imperfect (there is no perfect solution). Much harder to put forward your own ideas.

And donks insist on trying to solve a symptom instead of addressing the root causes. Much harder to address the root causes.

But remember: The nuclear family is now considered “racist”. THAT is the kind of shit that leads ultimately to events like this.

You phony fuck.

Your crowd has zero interest in dealing with root causes in any way shape or form that does not involve tax breaks for robber barons or police executing suspects in broad daylight in the middle of the street.

[Ibanez]

I can name another Constitutional Right that requires a permit and money- you have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon, as long as you get a permit and pay the fee.

Not required in the 25 states that allow for Constitutional Carry.

https://www.sled.sc.gov/cwp.html You need it in SC, and 1 example is enough. It's not absolute.

[Ibanez]

The right to own an automobile wasn't in the Bill of Rights. Regardless, nobody has the right to infringe the Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness of another individual. We should take care to adjust our laws and if need me amend our constitution, accordingly. Like I said before, it isn't a Appeal or STFU solution. The solution comes from all sides of the problem, the least of which is the tool.

I didn't say 2A was a law. It's a right but it's been constantly abused and has brought tragedy upon tragedy to families. You're so wrapped up in the usual argument that you're assuming you know my position (aside from me stating that I support the 2A).

But abortion is still cool though right?

Abortion is an abomination but should be legal. What's your point?

[Ibanez]

Conks just shit on any idea related to this topic. They have no ideas themselves at all. Much like healthcare. Zilch. Nada.

It's easy to criticize an idea on a complicated topic as imperfect (there is no perfect solution). Much harder to put forward your own ideas.

Donks control every branch of government. Why have they not solved this problem yet?

B/c they don't and you know that. B/c Donks and Republicans take turns at either being the Party of No Ideas or the Party of Bad Ideas.

Perhaps we should listen to our founding father Jefferson and renew our constitution every generation. 2A might get reaffirmed....we might put term limits in for Congress...hell we could go crazy and take away Due Process.