Coronavirus COVID-19

[BDKJMU]

I’ve got campaign literature from Harris/Biden (I get it from both sides, but more from Trump) that they their plan includes enacting a national mask mandate (probably to go along with a national lockdown). If they tried that there would be even less mask comoliance than there is now.

[SDHornet]

I leave the house every day. Cautious so I'm not spreading this crap to a nursing home or a vulnerable person. Also cautious so the government and news media don't get excited an cause us to be part of a government lockdown or mandate, to make it appear they are doing something. Wait, no one else cared, so we are going to see this government, big brother crap.

Yes. And all the “rules” make soooo much sense. We wear masks from the front door to the restaurant table, but not AT the table—apparently there’s a protective COVID bubble that hovers invisibly over every occupied table. We wear them in the grocery store, despite the fact all the checkers are now in little plexiglass boxes. People wear them in their cars. ALONE! All bank tellers are in plexiglass boxes. No standing at bars. No alcohol after 10:00. DRINKING is more dangerous than eating, apparently. Groups of 9 are ok. Groups of 10 are verboten. Apparently the virus doesn’t spread among 9 people, but requires 10 or more. Riots are fine. Rallys are not. Riots are fine, funerals are not. Riots are fine, weddings are not. Masks don’t work. Then they do. Then they don’t. Then they do. Two weeks to Flatten the curve became lockdown until we eradicate the virus. Two weeks has become 8 months—and counting. Suicides up. spousal and child abuse, up. Sexual abuse, up. Murder rates, skyrocketing. Violent crime, rising in literally every major city. Lockdowns have proven NOT to work, yet we’re about to go back into them (and Europe is definitely going back into them).

Joe Biden claims he has a plan to contain and eradicate the virus. Yet he refuses to tell anyone unless he’s elected president, apparently. He only care about Americans if he’s elected president, i guess.

Yep. It all makes perfect sense.

You forgot "lockdown until a vaccine, unless a vaccine is developed under the Trump admin then stay locked down longer".

The whole thing is a farce. Open everything back up already.


BTW, draconian lockdown going into effect in Paris, mass exodus and riots then ensued.

[SDHornet]

If I give you a jar of 200 jelly beans and tell you that one is laced with potassium cyanide so that if you eat it you will drop dead

I'd feed them to you. What a stupid anaolgy.

A better analogy John is every time I pull out of my driveway, I know I could be killed in a car accident....

And you have greater risk of dying in a car accident then from the China Virus.

[AZGrizFan]

WSJ had an opinion piece yesterday with a Dr. from UCLA (guy's name is Ladapo) that said masks have been overhyped. They help a little (article cites a study that showed a 2% reduction in transmission with masks versus not wearing masks), but with this virus being so small that masks do very little to stop them from moving through the air. The issue being that non-fitted masks do little to prevent respiratory viral spread. Anecdotally, you do have to wonder. Other than the nations that could literally pull up their draw bridges and isolate completely from the world (New Zealand and Taiwan) every other country has seen the ebbs and flows of virus spread that seem to have no connection with mask wearing. We were told that Germany has almost perfect adherence to mask wearing, yet they have uncontrolled spread of the virus now, as do other European countries. And those countries can't blame the virus spread on Trump's mismanagement. I'm going to keep wearing a mask because it's better than nothing, IMO, but at the same time, baby oil as a sunscreen is still technically better than nothing, but we have years of skin cancers to say better than nothing doesn't always amount to something.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-are- ... 1603927026

There is definitely reason to question how well your typical mask worn by the public works. We also need to ask what are the alternatives? How many people get sick or die if we just open things back up (masks optional, no restrictions on restaurants or gatherings)?

AZ's points are also valid but there is logic behind some of the restrictions whether you agree with it or not ...

• Wearing a mask into the restaurant is odd but probably based on the assumption that the tables are spaced apart and that the people at the table already spend time together.
• Wearing masks at the grocery store provides some protection for the wearer and other shoppers and those plexiglass boxes the checkers are in are not completely sealed.
• The drinking vs. eating thing is hypocritical but alcohol reduces inhibitions including physical distancing.
• Groups of 9 vs. 10 is arbitrary but what is the alternative? No limits on the size of groups?

Up until 8 months ago, masks were deemed (by DHS, WHO, CDC, etc) to NOT be effective against airborne viruses such as Wuhan corona virus. If they WERE effective, why weren’t we wearing them all along and preventing the flu deaths of 45,000-75,000 people every year? But then the vocal minority (bunch of Karens) took over and shamed then entire fucking country into wearing them. There is literally ZERO empirical evidence that correlates masks/lockdowns with reduced spread of the virus. But here we are.

[Gil Dobie]

Mask have been part of the protocol suggested by the medical community for a long time now, used with the other protocol. Don't listen to social media, mainstream media and political quack Doctors. These quacks have made it worse by confusing the populace, hence rising case numbers. It may be too late now, as the Government is going to force a lot more of this crap down our throats because of the social media, mainstream media and political quack Doctors. If Biden is elected it's going to get worse.

WSJ had an opinion piece yesterday with a Dr. from UCLA (guy's name is Ladapo) that said masks have been overhyped. They help a little (article cites a study that showed a 2% reduction in transmission with masks versus not wearing masks), but with this virus being so small that masks do very little to stop them from moving through the air. The issue being that non-fitted masks do little to prevent respiratory viral spread. Anecdotally, you do have to wonder. Other than the nations that could literally pull up their draw bridges and isolate completely from the world (New Zealand and Taiwan) every other country has seen the ebbs and flows of virus spread that seem to have no connection with mask wearing. We were told that Germany has almost perfect adherence to mask wearing, yet they have uncontrolled spread of the virus now, as do other European countries. And those countries can't blame the virus spread on Trump's mismanagement. I'm going to keep wearing a mask because it's better than nothing, IMO, but at the same time, baby oil as a sunscreen is still technically better than nothing, but we have years of skin cancers to say better than nothing doesn't always amount to something.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-are- ... 1603927026

I don't deny mask do little by themselves, but when combined with distancing, washing and temp checks they work. If 2 people wearing a mask are 2 feet apart, there is a greater chance of spreading the virus vs the recommended 6 ft. People will still get the virus, but your chances are better if you include the distancing etc. The best analogy I can come up with is to try spitting with the mask on, how far can you spit? The bigger droplets are caught in the mask, leaving less smaller particles in the air, and a less chance of spread. Still a chance, but less.

[Gil Dobie]

There is definitely reason to question how well your typical mask worn by the public works. We also need to ask what are the alternatives? How many people get sick or die if we just open things back up (masks optional, no restrictions on restaurants or gatherings)?

AZ's points are also valid but there is logic behind some of the restrictions whether you agree with it or not ...

• Wearing a mask into the restaurant is odd but probably based on the assumption that the tables are spaced apart and that the people at the table already spend time together.
• Wearing masks at the grocery store provides some protection for the wearer and other shoppers and those plexiglass boxes the checkers are in are not completely sealed.
• The drinking vs. eating thing is hypocritical but alcohol reduces inhibitions including physical distancing.
• Groups of 9 vs. 10 is arbitrary but what is the alternative? No limits on the size of groups?

Up until 8 months ago, masks were deemed (by DHS, WHO, CDC, etc) to NOT be effective against airborne viruses such as Wuhan corona virus. If they WERE effective, why weren’t we wearing them all along and preventing the flu deaths of 45,000-75,000 people every year? But then the vocal minority (bunch of Karens) took over and shamed then entire fucking country into wearing them. There is literally ZERO empirical evidence that correlates masks/lockdowns with reduced spread of the virus. But here we are.

Masks, distancing, washing, temp checks do not equal lock down. People not following these protocol, lead to more infections and lockdowns. I see the Biden plan as mass lockdowns and mandated masks, and maybe even fines.

[UNI88]

Up until 8 months ago, masks were deemed (by DHS, WHO, CDC, etc) to NOT be effective against airborne viruses such as Wuhan corona virus. If they WERE effective, why weren’t we wearing them all along and preventing the flu deaths of 45,000-75,000 people every year? But then the vocal minority (bunch of Karens) took over and shamed then entire fucking country into wearing them. There is literally ZERO empirical evidence that correlates masks/lockdowns with reduced spread of the virus. But here we are.

Masks, distancing, washing, temp checks do not equal lock down. People not following these protocol, lead to more infections and lockdowns. I see the Biden plan as mass lockdowns and mandated masks, and maybe even fines.

Legal questions

• Does the federal government have the ability to use emergency powers to mandate lockdowns, masks and fine people that don't wear them?
• If they do, are they temporary unless confirmed by an Act of Congress?
• If temporary, for how long?

I get how a state or municipality has leverage over a business but federal involvement is a much more serious threat to individual rights and will cause a upswell of defiance.

[Gil Dobie]

Masks, distancing, washing, temp checks do not equal lock down. People not following these protocol, lead to more infections and lockdowns. I see the Biden plan as mass lockdowns and mandated masks, and maybe even fines.

Legal questions

• Does the federal government have the ability to use emergency powers to mandate lockdowns, masks and fine people that don't wear them?
• If they do, are they temporary unless confirmed by an Act of Congress?
• If temporary, for how long?

I get how a state or municipality has leverage over a business but federal involvement is a much more serious threat to individual rights and will cause a upswell of defiance.

Biden, I assume could pressure states if he has a Dem Congress and Senate, with government funds. I won't be pretty.

[UNI88]

Legal questions

• Does the federal government have the ability to use emergency powers to mandate lockdowns, masks and fine people that don't wear them?
• If they do, are they temporary unless confirmed by an Act of Congress?
• If temporary, for how long?

I get how a state or municipality has leverage over a business but federal involvement is a much more serious threat to individual rights and will cause a upswell of defiance.

Biden, I assume could pressure states if he has a Dem Congress and Senate, with government funds. I won't be pretty.

Regardless of who is POTUS, we will be better off if the other party remains in control of one house of Congress.

[Gil Dobie]

Biden, I assume could pressure states if he has a Dem Congress and Senate, with government funds. I won't be pretty.

Regardless of who is POTUS, we will be better off if the other party remains in control of one house of Congress.

I agree, balance of power is good.

[GannonFan]

WSJ had an opinion piece yesterday with a Dr. from UCLA (guy's name is Ladapo) that said masks have been overhyped. They help a little (article cites a study that showed a 2% reduction in transmission with masks versus not wearing masks), but with this virus being so small that masks do very little to stop them from moving through the air. The issue being that non-fitted masks do little to prevent respiratory viral spread. Anecdotally, you do have to wonder. Other than the nations that could literally pull up their draw bridges and isolate completely from the world (New Zealand and Taiwan) every other country has seen the ebbs and flows of virus spread that seem to have no connection with mask wearing. We were told that Germany has almost perfect adherence to mask wearing, yet they have uncontrolled spread of the virus now, as do other European countries. And those countries can't blame the virus spread on Trump's mismanagement. I'm going to keep wearing a mask because it's better than nothing, IMO, but at the same time, baby oil as a sunscreen is still technically better than nothing, but we have years of skin cancers to say better than nothing doesn't always amount to something.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-are- ... 1603927026

I don't deny mask do little by themselves, but when combined with distancing, washing and temp checks they work. If 2 people wearing a mask are 2 feet apart, there is a greater chance of spreading the virus vs the recommended 6 ft. People will still get the virus, but your chances are better if you include the distancing etc. The best analogy I can come up with is to try spitting with the mask on, how far can you spit? The bigger droplets are caught in the mask, leaving less smaller particles in the air, and a less chance of spread. Still a chance, but less.

Well, by that rationale, the things really doing the work and the largest benefit are the distancing and the hand washing (temperature checks are really just another feel good step - most people are asymptomatic, and even if they are displaying symptoms fevers are not always one of them, so why check for them? Because it makes people feel like they're doing something). Masks work to basically stop someone spitting or sneezing directly on to someone else. But the small droplets that are really spreading the virus are too small for masks to block, especially with all of the gaps around a mask.

We're doing a lot of things in response to the virus that are really placebos meant to make us think we are doing something constructive. In reality, there is little we can do, short of a full on lockdown for months or even a year or several years, to avoid spreading the virus. Even after a vaccine arrives, most experts say best case for it to be 50% or 60% effective. The point of the article is that we need to be focusing on how to live with this virus, because we're going to be living with this virus for decades to come.

[AZGrizFan]

WSJ had an opinion piece yesterday with a Dr. from UCLA (guy's name is Ladapo) that said masks have been overhyped. They help a little (article cites a study that showed a 2% reduction in transmission with masks versus not wearing masks), but with this virus being so small that masks do very little to stop them from moving through the air. The issue being that non-fitted masks do little to prevent respiratory viral spread. Anecdotally, you do have to wonder. Other than the nations that could literally pull up their draw bridges and isolate completely from the world (New Zealand and Taiwan) every other country has seen the ebbs and flows of virus spread that seem to have no connection with mask wearing. We were told that Germany has almost perfect adherence to mask wearing, yet they have uncontrolled spread of the virus now, as do other European countries. And those countries can't blame the virus spread on Trump's mismanagement. I'm going to keep wearing a mask because it's better than nothing, IMO, but at the same time, baby oil as a sunscreen is still technically better than nothing, but we have years of skin cancers to say better than nothing doesn't always amount to something.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-are- ... 1603927026

I don't deny mask do little by themselves, but when combined with distancing, washing and temp checks they work. If 2 people wearing a mask are 2 feet apart, there is a greater chance of spreading the virus vs the recommended 6 ft. People will still get the virus, but your chances are better if you include the distancing etc. The best analogy I can come up with is to try spitting with the mask on, how far can you spit? The bigger droplets are caught in the mask, leaving less smaller particles in the air, and a less chance of spread. Still a chance, but less.

I haven’t been within 6 feet of someone besides my wife, immediate family and a couple close friends in 8 months. We do not wear masks in each others’ company.

But that begs the question: if masks are effective in stopping corona virus, why weren’t we wearing it to save 50-75,000 people each year from the flu?

[AZGrizFan]

I don't deny mask do little by themselves, but when combined with distancing, washing and temp checks they work. If 2 people wearing a mask are 2 feet apart, there is a greater chance of spreading the virus vs the recommended 6 ft. People will still get the virus, but your chances are better if you include the distancing etc. The best analogy I can come up with is to try spitting with the mask on, how far can you spit? The bigger droplets are caught in the mask, leaving less smaller particles in the air, and a less chance of spread. Still a chance, but less.

Well, by that rationale, the things really doing the work and the largest benefit are the distancing and the hand washing (temperature checks are really just another feel good step - most people are asymptomatic, and even if they are displaying symptoms fevers are not always one of them, so why check for them? Because it makes people feel like they're doing something). Masks work to basically stop someone spitting or sneezing directly on to someone else. But the small droplets that are really spreading the virus are too small for masks to block, especially with all of the gaps around a mask.

We're doing a lot of things in response to the virus that are really placebos meant to make us think we are doing something constructive. In reality, there is little we can do, short of a full on lockdown for months or even a year or several years, to avoid spreading the virus. Even after a vaccine arrives, most experts say best case for it to be 50% or 60% effective. The point of the article is that we need to be focusing on how to live with this virus, because we're going to be living with this virus for decades to come.

My point exactly. Masks and social distancing are the covid equivalent of the TSA in airports. they give the ILLUSION of security, when in fact they provide little/none. But godforfuckingBID you don’t wear a mask...and the dirty looks if you get within 10 feet of somebody now? It’s sad, really.

[kalm]

Yikes.

13,200 Czech Republic medical workers infected, 6000 nurses, 2600 doctors. US National Guard is going in to help.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s- ... AT7EV7Npqw

[SDHornet]

[Gil Dobie]

I don't deny mask do little by themselves, but when combined with distancing, washing and temp checks they work. If 2 people wearing a mask are 2 feet apart, there is a greater chance of spreading the virus vs the recommended 6 ft. People will still get the virus, but your chances are better if you include the distancing etc. The best analogy I can come up with is to try spitting with the mask on, how far can you spit? The bigger droplets are caught in the mask, leaving less smaller particles in the air, and a less chance of spread. Still a chance, but less.

Well, by that rationale, the things really doing the work and the largest benefit are the distancing and the hand washing (temperature checks are really just another feel good step - most people are asymptomatic, and even if they are displaying symptoms fevers are not always one of them, so why check for them? Because it makes people feel like they're doing something). Masks work to basically stop someone spitting or sneezing directly on to someone else. But the small droplets that are really spreading the virus are too small for masks to block, especially with all of the gaps around a mask.

We're doing a lot of things in response to the virus that are really placebos meant to make us think we are doing something constructive. In reality, there is little we can do, short of a full on lockdown for months or even a year or several years, to avoid spreading the virus. Even after a vaccine arrives, most experts say best case for it to be 50% or 60% effective. The point of the article is that we need to be focusing on how to live with this virus, because we're going to be living with this virus for decades to come.

I agree with most of what you are saying. The protocol, as you said does lesson the chances of the virus spreading. We do not have a 100 percent solution and the only drug that has proven to reduce mortality, the Trump drug, reduces mortality by about 30- 35 percent. That shows there has been progress since this all started. I also doubt 50% of the population will get the vaccine, when I read that only 40% get the annual flu shot. That is one reason you still have people dying from the flu.

Where I disagree is that mask plus protocol, are a placebo. Many droplets that do get thru a mask will fall to the ground. Following protocol still doesn't prevent people from getting the virus, it reduces the odds and possibly the severity. Some medical professionals believe the size of the viral load a person takes in, can affect the severity of each case of Covid. I relate mask plus the additional protocol, to seat belts, they are affective, but not 100%.

If I have any questions about whether to wear a mask or not, I consult my Dr. I've had a good relationship with him, he even answers my emails.

[SeattleGriz]

I don't deny mask do little by themselves, but when combined with distancing, washing and temp checks they work. If 2 people wearing a mask are 2 feet apart, there is a greater chance of spreading the virus vs the recommended 6 ft. People will still get the virus, but your chances are better if you include the distancing etc. The best analogy I can come up with is to try spitting with the mask on, how far can you spit? The bigger droplets are caught in the mask, leaving less smaller particles in the air, and a less chance of spread. Still a chance, but less.

I haven’t been within 6 feet of someone besides my wife, immediate family and a couple close friends in 8 months. We do not wear masks in each others’ company.

But that begs the question: if masks are effective in stopping corona virus, why weren’t we wearing it to save 50-75,000 people each year from the flu?

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Let's add pneumonia as well, as it's grouped in with Flu and COVID. There will ALWAYS be someone who is susceptible. Why are we not protecting them all, forever?

[kalm]

Yeah...Sweden.

https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

[Gil Dobie]

I haven’t been within 6 feet of someone besides my wife, immediate family and a couple close friends in 8 months. We do not wear masks in each others’ company.

But that begs the question: if masks are effective in stopping corona virus, why weren’t we wearing it to save 50-75,000 people each year from the flu?

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Let's add pneumonia as well, as it's grouped in with Flu and COVID. There will ALWAYS be someone who is susceptible. Why are we not protecting them all, forever?

Do we have pneumonia and flu vaccines?

We are not really protecting people right now, we are reducing the chance of people getting Covid. By what percentage, I don't know, maybe it gives the people in nursing homes a better chance for a few more years.

[SeattleGriz]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Let's add pneumonia as well, as it's grouped in with Flu and COVID. There will ALWAYS be someone who is susceptible. Why are we not protecting them all, forever?

Do we have pneumonia and flu vaccines?

We are not really protecting people right now, we are reducing the chance of people getting Covid. By what percentage, I don't know, maybe it gives the people in nursing homes a better chance for a few more years.

We do have vaccines, but you are going to have to pick a number because even with vaccines, there were still around 60K that died due to Flu and Pneumonia last year. The effectiveness of the vaccines varies from year to year, so that number could go much higher. Right now we have no clue how effective a COVID vaccine will be in preventing deaths.

This is why I keep referring to this chart. It lumps all three of them together and shows an epidemic threshold. That threshold is an actual number.

[Skjellyfetti]

[SDHornet]

A coworker has asthma and went to the doctor as we had high winds last week that flared up an asthma attack. His doctor wanted to treat it as covid even though he had no symptoms other than difficulty breathing. He now has to isolate and stay away from work because of this. My guess is this will be counted as a new covid case. Nothing to see here, move along.

[BDKJMU]

Just ordered by Cuomo for travellers to NY State:

travelers must quarantine for three days and then retest on the fourth to ensure they are coronavirus-free, Cuomo added

.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/travel ... -announces

[AZGrizFan]

England goes into a hard lockdown for the next four weeks.

When the virus “peaked” in the summer, their 7-day moving averages were 4789 cases and 941 deaths.

This “peak” the 7-day moving average is 22,678 cases (over a 5x increase in cases) with deaths at 248.

A 5-fold increase in cases, a 4-fold DECREASE in deaths. And they go into lockdown.

Unreal.

[AZGrizFan]

Just ordered by Cuomo for travellers to NY State:

travelers must quarantine for three days and then retest on the fourth to ensure they are coronavirus-free, Cuomo added

.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/travel ... -announces

Similarly, when the virus peaked in NY this spring, they were seeing over 10,000 cases per DAY. Their new 7day moving average is 2000.

NY State was seeing 1,000 deaths per DAY at the peak. Their current 7-day moving average? A paltry FOURTEEN.

I swear, it’s like blue state governors are TRYING to destroy their state economies. For literally no reason.