German Soccer to Return

[Ivytalk]

Knowing that GannonFan can’t let anyone who disagrees with him have the last word, I look forward to JoltinJoe’s lawyerly response.

Should be good!

[JoltinJoe]

Knowing that GannonFan can’t let anyone who disagrees with him have the last word, I look forward to JoltinJoe’s lawyerly response.

Should be good!

I don't think that last parade of gibberish requires a response.

Note that I said I've been following Dortmund after Pulisic started playing for them. That was during the 2016-17 season. Yea, that's the statement of a guy claiming to be authority on the Bundesliga. I've been following one team for three years now.

And GrannyTool claims to have exposed my "profound lack of knowledge of German soccer."

The Dortmund side is the only team I watch in the Bundesliga. I watch Dortmund basically during cardio exercise. I do a cardio machine for the first half; shower at the half; and enjoy a nice cold Hint water during the second half. Yea, there is no authority in the world greater than me when it comes to the Bundesliga. Can't believe that he "exposed" me.

[JoltinJoe]

Here you go Ivy. Our boys from Dortmund travel to Wolfsburg for a match starting at 9:20 EDT on FS1.

Probable line-ups and a match preview is on the Bundesliga website:
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundeslig ... eyna-11166

US defender John Brooks plays for Wolfsburg. I know he's had a bit of an up-and-down season but I don't know the details. He had been demoted from the starting lineup earlier this year, but he's been starting again in recent matches.

[Ibanez]

The stuff you post when you can't answer a simple question.

Who among the 1998 Yankees was linked to PED use during or before the season?

Is there a reason you make the distinction "during or before" instead of after?

[Ivytalk]

Here you go Ivy. Our boys from Dortmund travel to Wolfsburg for a match starting at 9:20 EDT on FS1.

Probable line-ups and a match preview is on the Bundesliga website:
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundeslig ... eyna-11166

US defender John Brooks plays for Wolfsburg. I know he's had a bit of an up-and-down season but I don't know the details. He had been demoted from the starting lineup earlier this year, but he's been starting again in recent matches.

Thanks, Joe! That will brighten my Saturday, for sure!

[JoltinJoe]

Is there a reason you make the distinction "during or before" instead of after?

Because TWO (just two) members of that team were later named in The Mitchell Report as having used PEDs. However, in both cases, the Mitchell Report stated that they had first used PEDs at a period of time following the 1998 season.

The report stated that Chuck Knoblauch first used PEDs in 2002, as his career started to decline, in what proved to be an unsuccessful attempt to keep his starter's job.

The report found that Andy Pettitte used HGH twice (yes, all of TWO times), while rehabbing from an injury in 2002. [Note that some doctors say HGH SHOULD be approved for rehab purposes as it has a valid medical purpose].

In any event, lying sacks of shit like GrannyTool -- merely because they are poor sports who root for other teams -- have tried to use The Mitchell Report to disparage the accomplishments of what is likely the greatest baseball team of our lifetimes, by claiming that "many" Yankees were named in The Mitchell Report.

Obviously, PED use AFTER 1998 had no influence on the 1998 results.

This is why have repeatedly asked GrannyTool to name one member of the 1998 Yankees that was involved in PED use BEFORE or DURING the 1998 season.

GrannyTool has not been able to identify one. That's because there is no evidence that would support that any member of the 1998 Yankees used PEDs during that season, or any time before.

Note that the team leader in HRs, Tino Martinez, was 38th overall in MLB in homers with 28 -- a paltry sum for a team leader in HRs in 1998. No player on the team had a suspiciously productive season.

[JoltinJoe]

Here you go Ivy. Our boys from Dortmund travel to Wolfsburg for a match starting at 9:20 EDT on FS1.

Probable line-ups and a match preview is on the Bundesliga website:
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundeslig ... eyna-11166

US defender John Brooks plays for Wolfsburg. I know he's had a bit of an up-and-down season but I don't know the details. He had been demoted from the starting lineup earlier this year, but he's been starting again in recent matches.

Thanks, Joe! That will brighten my Saturday, for sure!

I find the German game, while technically excellent, to be unexciting. I really enjoy La Liga much more. The Spanish league is more open to individual play-making. I was planning a trip to Barcelona next August so they boys could see Messi play once at Camp Nous before Father Time soon closes the door on such a chance.

Messi will likely play at top form to an older age than most, just due to his skill level, but I honestly think he has perhaps two more years before he's finished at the top. Soccer is a young man's sport that requires young legs and young lungs -- even for Messi.

[Ibanez]

Is there a reason you make the distinction "during or before" instead of after?

Because TWO (just two) members of that team were later named in The Mitchell Report as having used PEDs. However, in both cases, the Mitchell Report stated that they had first used PEDs at a period of time following the 1998 season.

The report stated that Chuck Knoblauch first used PEDs in 2002, as his career started to decline, in what proved to be an unsuccessful attempt to keep his starter's job.

The report found that Andy Pettitte used HGH twice (yes, all of TWO times), while rehabbing from an injury in 2002. [Note that some doctors say HGH SHOULD be approved for rehab purposes as it has a valid medical purpose].

In any event, lying sacks of shit like GrannyTool -- merely because they are poor sports who root for other teams -- have tried to use The Mitchell Report to disparage the accomplishments of what is likely the greatest baseball team of our lifetimes, by claiming that "many" Yankees were named in The Mitchell Report.

Obviously, PED use AFTER 1998 had no influence on the 1998 results.

This is why have repeatedly asked GrannyTool to name one member of the 1998 Yankees that was involved in PED use BEFORE or DURING the 1998 season.

GrannyTool has not been able to identify one. That's because there is no evidence that would support that any member of the 1998 Yankees used PEDs during that season, or any time before.

Note that the team leader in HRs, Tino Martinez, was 38th overall in MLB in homers with 28 -- a paltry sum for a team leader in HRs in 1998. No player on the team had a suspiciously productive season.

I don't follow the Yanks or baseball as well as others. Thanks.

Ganny seems to have struck a nerve with you regarding the Yankees.

[UNI88]

Because TWO (just two) members of that team were later named in The Mitchell Report as having used PEDs. However, in both cases, the Mitchell Report stated that they had first used PEDs at a period of time following the 1998 season.

The report stated that Chuck Knoblauch first used PEDs in 2002, as his career started to decline, in what proved to be an unsuccessful attempt to keep his starter's job.

The report found that Andy Pettitte used HGH twice (yes, all of TWO times), while rehabbing from an injury in 2002. [Note that some doctors say HGH SHOULD be approved for rehab purposes as it has a valid medical purpose].

In any event, lying sacks of shit like GrannyTool -- merely because they are poor sports who root for other teams -- have tried to use The Mitchell Report to disparage the accomplishments of what is likely the greatest baseball team of our lifetimes, by claiming that "many" Yankees were named in The Mitchell Report.

Obviously, PED use AFTER 1998 had no influence on the 1998 results.

This is why have repeatedly asked GrannyTool to name one member of the 1998 Yankees that was involved in PED use BEFORE or DURING the 1998 season.

GrannyTool has not been able to identify one. That's because there is no evidence that would support that any member of the 1998 Yankees used PEDs during that season, or any time before.

Note that the team leader in HRs, Tino Martinez, was 38th overall in MLB in homers with 28 -- a paltry sum for a team leader in HRs in 1998. No player on the team had a suspiciously productive season.

I don't follow the Yanks or baseball as well as others. Thanks.

Ganny seems to have struck a nerve with you regarding the Yankees.

Joe isn't be completely forthright. He first asked Ganny to name any member of the 1998 Yankees that used PEDs, he added the "during that season or before" later. I believe there were at least three members of that team who were linked to PEDs later. We don't really know if they were using them in 1998 or earlier.

[Ibanez]

I don't follow the Yanks or baseball as well as others. Thanks.

Ganny seems to have struck a nerve with you regarding the Yankees.

Joe isn't be completely forthright. He first asked Ganny to name any member of the 1998 Yankees that used PEDs, he added the "during that season or before" later. I believe there were at least three members of that team who were linked to PEDs later. We don't really know if they were using them in 1998 or earlier.

I read through and gathered that. Also, it was over 20 yrs ago, who cares. There are more reasons than the 1998 season to hate the Yankees.

Also, if I were prosecuting someone for doing something in illegal in 2002, i'd try to paint a picture that the behavior could've began long before hand. But i'm not a lawyer....well technically i'm not.

[JoltinJoe]

Joe isn't be completely forthright. He first asked Ganny to name any member of the 1998 Yankees that used PEDs, he added the "during that season or before" later. I believe there were at least three members of that team who were linked to PEDs later. We don't really know if they were using them in 1998 or earlier.

That's not true. This discussion long pre-dates this thread and, whatever wording you're citing has to be taken in the context of all prior discussions.

My point HAS ALWAYS been that no member of that team was linked to PED in a way that would have influenced performance during that season, i.e., before or after.

If you actually read The Mitchell Report, it EXPLICITLY states that Knoblauch first experimented with PEDs in 2002, as his career was winding down; and that Pettitte HAD NEVER used PEDs before 2002, when he was rehabbing from injury, and stopped after two injections.

As for Darren Holmes, he pitched an inconsequential number of innings for the Yankees in 1998 (51), and did not play in the post-season. According to The Mitchell Report, Holmes' use of steroids could not be dated an earlier than 2003.

Here are some other places where this has been discussed and, as you can see, it is always about "before or during" the 1998 season.

Post from May 4:

Just for the record, I was called a very effective lawyer for my work in this thread.

And you still haven't credibly alleged a single member of the 1998 Yankees was using PEDs before or during that season.

But you're a Phillies fan. You're use to getting slaughtered like roadkill and claiming otherwise.

Post from May 5:

Stop the pyscho-babble, Phillies fans.

You've had numerous chances to identify a member of the 1998 Yankees implicated in steroid use during or before that season.

Number of credible responses: 0.

/thread.

[UNI88]

Joe isn't be completely forthright. He first asked Ganny to name any member of the 1998 Yankees that used PEDs, he added the "during that season or before" later. I believe there were at least three members of that team who were linked to PEDs later. We don't really know if they were using them in 1998 or earlier.

That's not true. This discussion long pre-dates this thread and, whatever wording you're citing has to be taken in the context of all prior discussions.

My point HAS ALWAYS been that no member of that team was linked to PED in a way that would have influenced performance during that season, i.e., before or after.

If you actually read The Mitchell Report, it EXPLICITLY states that Knoblauch first experimented with PEDs in 2002, as his career was winding down; and that Pettitte HAD NEVER used PEDs before 2002, when he was rehabbing from injury, and stopped after two injections.

As for Darren Holmes, he pitched an inconsequential number of innings for the Yankees in 1998 (51), and did not play in the post-season. According to The Mitchell Report, Holmes' use of steroids could not be dated an earlier than 2003.

Here are some other places where this has been discussed and, as you can see, it is always about "before or during" the 1998 season.

Post from May 4:

Just for the record, I was called a very effective lawyer for my work in this thread.

And you still haven't credibly alleged a single member of the 1998 Yankees was using PEDs before or during that season.

But you're a Phillies fan. You're use to getting slaughtered like roadkill and claiming otherwise.

Post from May 5:

Stop the pyscho-babble, Phillies fans.

You've had numerous chances to identify a member of the 1998 Yankees implicated in steroid use during or before that season.

Number of credible responses: 0.

/thread.

I must have joined the conversation later.

On May 7 at 9:39pm you posted ...

And yet still not one member of the 1998 Yankees credibly linked to PED use.

And on May 8 at 2:46pm you modified that position to include the "during that season or any time prior to that season" ...

Again, to be clear, no member of the 1998 Yankees has ever been implicated in PED use during that season or any time prior to that season.

Just because none were implicated for use during or before 1998 doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Cheaters will be cheaters.

[Gil Dobie]

There must not have been steroids in the Yankees clubhouse, because Strawberry said he have used them if he was offered them.

[JoltinJoe]

There must not have been steroids in the Yankees clubhouse, because Strawberry said he have used them if he was offered them.

Yes. There's an interesting story to why steroids never took a foothold in the Yankee clubhouse of that era. I've heard this from media figures who cover the Yankees that I know from college.

When Don Mattingly was rehabbing from his back injury without that much success in the early 1990s, many people suggested to Mattingly that he start HGH injections to help heal his back. HGH was already being used by MLB players in other clubhouses, and many players knew that others were using it. HGH's role in treating injuries was fairly common knowledge at the time.

Mattingly refused to use HGH or PEDs. He believed he could come back without HGH. And he thought it was cheating. And he was the Yankee captain and the de facto leader in the clubhouse. His position on PEDs set the rule in the clubhouse, and the core players followed his example. When Mattingly retired, the leadership role fell to Paul O'Neill. O'Neill considered Mattingly his baseball mentor. Mattingly had taught O'Neill a lot about plate discipline and how to hit to all fields. Even today, on YES broadcasts, Paul O'Neill calls Mattingly the "Captain." O'Neill held to the same no tolerance rule concerning PEDs and he fixed the rule in the clubhouse.

The entry point for steroids was in 1999, when the Yankees traded David Wells for Roger Clemens.

Torre thought Wells wasn't disciplined. Clemens, on the other hand, was said to be a fitness fiend. Little did we know what that actually meant at the time. Torre thought it was smart to deal an overweight partier for a fitness fiend.

Like most Yankee fans, I hated the Wells for Clemens deal. Clemens never became a fan favorite in New York. But in retrospect, the deal was even worse than we imagined. Without his steroid supplier (Brian McNamee) with him in New York, Clemens stunk up the joint in 1999. He sucked in 2000 too. Then, about halfway through the 2000 season, Clemens talked the Yankees into hiring McNamee, his "strength trainer" in Toronto. He pitched a lot better the second half of the 2000 season, after McNamee arrived and Clemens started using steroids again.

So the deal for Clemens was terrible, because he sucked most of the time he pitched in New York, and because it led to the hiring of McNamee. These events marked the entry point of steroids into the Yankee locker room -- very late, relatively speaking. But significant when McNamee became one of George Mitchell's two sources.

[Ivytalk]

Dortmund gets 2-0 win over Wolfsburg to maintain its hold on second place in the standings.

[JoltinJoe]

Dortmund gets 2-0 win over Wolfsburg to maintain its hold on second place in the standings.

Make or break game v. Bayern on Tuesday, 5/26 (12:30 p.m., FS1). A win draws the Yellow and Black to within a point of Bayern. A defeat will drop them to seven back, and will likely cause a slip from the current second place standing in the Table. Bayern had its way with Dortmund in Munich last November, a 4-0 thrashing, in the first of the "Der Klassiker" matches this season.

But at Dortmund, and with you having pledged your allegiance to the Yellow and Black, I am confident of a favorable outcome. Our boys have not conceded a goal since you cast your favor upon them!

[Ivytalk]

Well, crap. Dortmund loses to Bayern 1-0 in evenly matched game. Only goal scored late in the first half.

[JoltinJoe]

Well, crap. Dortmund loses to Bayern 1-0 in evenly matched game. Only goal scored late in the first half.

You are obviously a jinx.

[Ibanez]

Joe isn't be completely forthright. He first asked Ganny to name any member of the 1998 Yankees that used PEDs, he added the "during that season or before" later. I believe there were at least three members of that team who were linked to PEDs later. We don't really know if they were using them in 1998 or earlier.

That's not true. This discussion long pre-dates this thread and, whatever wording you're citing has to be taken in the context of all prior discussions.

My point HAS ALWAYS been that no member of that team was linked to PED in a way that would have influenced performance during that season, i.e., before or after.

If you actually read The Mitchell Report, it EXPLICITLY states that Knoblauch first experimented with PEDs in 2002, as his career was winding down; and that Pettitte HAD NEVER used PEDs before 2002, when he was rehabbing from injury, and stopped after two injections.

As for Darren Holmes, he pitched an inconsequential number of innings for the Yankees in 1998 (51), and did not play in the post-season. According to The Mitchell Report, Holmes' use of steroids could not be dated an earlier than 2003.

Here are some other places where this has been discussed and, as you can see, it is always about "before or during" the 1998 season.

Post from May 4:

Just for the record, I was called a very effective lawyer for my work in this thread.

And you still haven't credibly alleged a single member of the 1998 Yankees was using PEDs before or during that season.

But you're a Phillies fan. You're use to getting slaughtered like roadkill and claiming otherwise.

Post from May 5:

Stop the pyscho-babble, Phillies fans.

You've had numerous chances to identify a member of the 1998 Yankees implicated in steroid use during or before that season.

Number of credible responses: 0.

/thread.

I'm not going to read the Mitchell Report but isn't a MLB roster about 30 guys? Did the report investigate all 30?

[Ivytalk]

Well, crap. Dortmund loses to Bayern 1-0 in evenly matched game. Only goal scored late in the first half.

You are obviously a jinx.

I blame Yankee fans.

[JoltinJoe]

You are obviously a jinx.

I blame Yankee fans.

We are all a bit of a one trick pony around here, aren't we?

[Ivytalk]

Next up for Dortmund: cellar-dwelling Paderborn. Gotta have it!

[JoltinJoe]

Next up for Dortmund: cellar-dwelling Paderborn. Gotta have it!

MUCH better second half.

[Ivytalk]

Next up for Dortmund: cellar-dwelling Paderborn. Gotta have it!

MUCH better second half.

But the Bayern Steamroller keeps on crushing all that lie before it.

[JoltinJoe]

MUCH better second half.

But the Bayern Steamroller keeps on crushing all that lie before it.

They'll be hard-pressed to top Bayern. But they've got three teams on their trail -- and only the four top teams will get a Champions League berth for 2020-21.