Abortion Waiting Periods Are Illegal

[CID1990]

BTW the analogy is good- it doesn't matter if the waiting period is challenged on religious or health and safety reasons- the question is two fold- whether the religious claim is based on established doctrine (if wanton killing is established satanic doctrine then let's see them argue for that- but you can't just make up your doctrine) and second whether or not the plaintiff will suffer irreparable harm, vs society's interest in health and safety (in this case, that of the fetus)

1) Like it or not, abortion is legal. "Wanton killing" is not.

2) Isn't all religion pretty much "made up doctrine"? Or does emperor Cid get to decide which religions are legit?

3) Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like state mandated proselytizing might not jive with the intent of the 1st amendment.

Constitutional rights...super important as long as it affects me or I agree with what's being said!

1) Guns are legal too- they're even specifically mentioned in the Constitution. Waiting periods have still been found Constitutional.

2) I said ESTABLISHED religion before that. You don't get to make things up on the spot. Selective reading on your part. Disagree if you like, but that's the standard. Citizens United!!!!!!

3) More selective... pablum from you - a 72 hour waiting period is required for many things- especially those things with a level of gravity like killing a baby or buying a gun, or even renouncing your citizenship (which also requires a waiting period) - gives you time to think about what you're doing. None of these things are being denied.

If miss satanist was being denied an abortion then you'd have a point. But they aren't and you don't.

[kalm]

1) Like it or not, abortion is legal. "Wanton killing" is not.

2) Isn't all religion pretty much "made up doctrine"? Or does emperor Cid get to decide which religions are legit?

3) Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like state mandated proselytizing might not jive with the intent of the 1st amendment.

Constitutional rights...super important as long as it affects me or I agree with what's being said!

1) Guns are legal too- they're even specifically mentioned in the Constitution. Waiting periods have still been found Constitutional.

2) I said ESTABLISHED religion before that. You don't get to make things up on the spot. Selective reading on your part. Disagree if you like, but that's the standard. Citizens United!!!!!!

3) More selective... pablum from you - a 72 hour waiting period is required for many things- especially those things with a level of gravity like killing a baby or buying a gun, or even renouncing your citizenship (which also requires a waiting period) - gives you time to think about what you're doing. None of these things are being denied.

If miss satanist was being denied an abortion then you'd have a point. But they aren't and you don't.

1) Abortion is established doctrine just like guns

2) Define "established religion" and who gets to determine if/what is "established"? And what does CU have to do with this?

3) Nice dodge on the state ordered proselytizing. I'd stay away from that one too.

[CID1990]

1) Guns are legal too- they're even specifically mentioned in the Constitution. Waiting periods have still been found Constitutional.

2) I said ESTABLISHED religion before that. You don't get to make things up on the spot. Selective reading on your part. Disagree if you like, but that's the standard. Citizens United!!!!!!

3) More selective... pablum from you - a 72 hour waiting period is required for many things- especially those things with a level of gravity like killing a baby or buying a gun, or even renouncing your citizenship (which also requires a waiting period) - gives you time to think about what you're doing. None of these things are being denied.

If miss satanist was being denied an abortion then you'd have a point. But they aren't and you don't.

1) Abortion is established doctrine just like guns

2) Define "established religion" and who gets to determine if/what is "established"? And what does CU have to do with this?

3) Nice dodge on the state ordered proselytizing. I'd stay away from that one too.

Nobody is claiming abortion is somehow illegal - you're projecting or something- who knows what competing confusions are going on in there?

I'm not avoiding your absurd comment about proselytizing, I'm just ignoring it. Is the state saying "convert" by enforcing the 72 hour wait time? No.

Thus case has so little merit it is doubtful it even makes it to SCOTUS (where you can whine about the inevitable ruling.... CITIZENS UNITED!!!! ZOMFG)

[kalm]

1) Abortion is established doctrine just like guns

2) Define "established religion" and who gets to determine if/what is "established"? And what does CU have to do with this?

3) Nice dodge on the state ordered proselytizing. I'd stay away from that one too.

Nobody is claiming abortion is somehow illegal - you're projecting or something- who knows what competing confusions are going on in there?

I'm not avoiding your absurd comment about proselytizing, I'm just ignoring it. Is the state saying "convert" by enforcing the 72 hour wait time? No.

Thus case has so little merit it is doubtful it even makes it to SCOTUS (where you can whine about the inevitable ruling.... CITIZENS UNITED!!!! ZOMFG)

I didn't accuse anyone of claiming abortion is legal. Just trying to keep up with your various trips into the weeds. (See Citizens United)

We hear all the time about 1st amendment rights from religious folk which is apparently fine as long as it's the right kind of religious folk. Now, a clearly established religion - the Satanic Temple - is defending all of our rights against government sponsored religion, and you're all fine with it because...Satan?

For shame...

[LeadBolt]

She should have to obey the waiting period, even if it violates her religion, just as the clerk in KY should have to issue marriage licenses to gays, even if it violates her religion. There's not much difference.

[kalm]

She should have to obey the waiting period, even if it violates her religion, just as the clerk in KY should have to issue marriage licenses to gays, even if it violates her religion. There's not much difference.

Hmmm. Interesting.

[Baldy]

She should have to obey the waiting period, even if it violates her religion, just as the clerk in KY should have to issue marriage licenses to gays, even if it violates her religion. There's not much difference.

Hmmm. Interesting.

kalm be like...

[CID1990]

Nobody is claiming abortion is somehow illegal - you're projecting or something- who knows what competing confusions are going on in there?

I'm not avoiding your absurd comment about proselytizing, I'm just ignoring it. Is the state saying "convert" by enforcing the 72 hour wait time? No.

Thus case has so little merit it is doubtful it even makes it to SCOTUS (where you can whine about the inevitable ruling.... CITIZENS UNITED!!!! ZOMFG)

I didn't accuse anyone of claiming abortion is legal. Just trying to keep up with your various trips into the weeds. (See Citizens United)

We hear all the time about 1st amendment rights from religious folk which is apparently fine as long as it's the right kind of religious folk. Now, a clearly established religion - the Satanic Temple - is defending all of our rights against government sponsored religion, and you're all fine with it because...Satan?

For shame...

there you go thinking I give two sh1ts about any religion at all

Im just trying to explain to you how the case law is gonna go based on precedent and facts

the 72 hour waiting period is constitutional and will be upheld

you wanna whine about it when it happens (CITIZENS UFVCKINGNITED JESUS TITFVCKING CHRIST ZOMG!!!!)

or do you just want to make an avatar bet so you have a remote chance of getting something put of this useless thread you started?

[kalm]

I didn't accuse anyone of claiming abortion is legal. Just trying to keep up with your various trips into the weeds. (See Citizens United)

We hear all the time about 1st amendment rights from religious folk which is apparently fine as long as it's the right kind of religious folk. Now, a clearly established religion - the Satanic Temple - is defending all of our rights against government sponsored religion, and you're all fine with it because...Satan?

For shame...

there you go thinking I give two sh1ts about any religion at all

Im just trying to explain to you how the case law is gonna go based on precedent and facts

the 72 hour waiting period is constitutional and will be upheld

you wanna whine about it when it happens (CITIZENS UFVCKINGNITED JESUS TITFVCKING CHRIST ZOMG!!!!)

or do you just want to make an avatar bet so you have a remote chance of getting something put of this useless thread you started?

Oh believe me...I've got something out of this thread.

[Chizzang]

1) Guns are legal too- they're even specifically mentioned in the Constitution. Waiting periods have still been found Constitutional.

Guns are mentioned right after the phrase "well regulated"

See here:

reg·u·late
verb

control or maintain the rate or speed of - so that it operates properly.
"a hormone that regulates metabolism and organ function"
synonyms: control, adjust, manage
"the flow of the river has been regulated"

[Baldy]

1) Guns are legal too- they're even specifically mentioned in the Constitution. Waiting periods have still been found Constitutional.

Guns are mentioned right after the phrase "well regulated"

See here:

reg·u·late
verb

control or maintain the rate or speed of - so that it operates properly.
"a hormone that regulates metabolism and organ function"
synonyms: control, adjust, manage
"the flow of the river has been regulated"

Umm no. Militia is mentioned right after the phrase "well regulated". "Well regulated" in 1780's vernacular means well trained, prepared, and practiced.

[CID1990]

1) Guns are legal too- they're even specifically mentioned in the Constitution. Waiting periods have still been found Constitutional.

Guns are mentioned right after the phrase "well regulated"

See here:

reg·u·late
verb

control or maintain the rate or speed of - so that it operates properly.
"a hormone that regulates metabolism and organ function"
synonyms: control, adjust, manage
"the flow of the river has been regulated"

And regulated they are~ well done, Cleets.. Master of the Obvious

Didn't I say wait periods to buy guns are Constitutional?

Are you drinking from the same aquifer as Klam?

[kalm]

Guns are mentioned right after the phrase "well regulated"

See here:

reg·u·late
verb

control or maintain the rate or speed of - so that it operates properly.
"a hormone that regulates metabolism and organ function"
synonyms: control, adjust, manage
"the flow of the river has been regulated"

And regulated they are~ well done, Cleets.. Master of the Obvious

Didn't I say wait periods to buy guns are Constitutional?

Are you drinking from the same aquifer as Klam?

Have I, or the Satanic Temple argued about the constitutionality of waiting periods for guns? But you go ahead and keep on winning that battle! Congrats!

Since 1973’s Roe v. Wade ruling by the Supreme Court which safeguarded the legality of abortion, the conservative religious right has instigated anti-abortion initiatives. Many lawmakers have introduced “weasel bills” transparently designed to make the process of receiving an abortion more difficult, and emotionally and logistically harrowing. Those who define the issue in terms of personal choice typically find their views marginalized as being outside of the realm of religious protection. While religio-conservative views seek to undermine abortion rights, they have also steadily worked to define “religious liberty” to be understood in terms of reserving the right to deny contraceptives and oppose rational family planning practices. We intend to show that religious liberty can also protect and promote these legal practices.

*Please note that The Satanic Temple believes that religious organizations should not be tax exempt and for that reason contributions are not tax deductible

http://thesatanictemple.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the release, Greaves explains that the Temple is suing because informed consent materials are “nothing more than an obstacle acting upon a decision made with deference to deeply-held religious beliefs:”

“The Informed Consent materials explicitly communicate items of religious opinion that directly contradict the deeply-held beliefs of women within The Satanic Temple. Specifically, the state materials declare fetal tissue — in utero, not viable, and starting at conception — to constitute a ‘unique human being with a life of its own, separate and apart from the woman whose uterus it occupies.’ The question of when life begins is absolutely a religious opinion, and the state has no business proselytizing religious beliefs. Women of The Satanic Temple, deciding to terminate a pregnancy, and informed in their decision to do so by their adherence to Satanic tenets, are having their religious freedoms violated when subjected to state-mandated ‘informed consent’ propaganda. The mandatory abortion waiting-period is imposed with the rationale that women need that time in which to absorb and comprehend the informed consent materials. As we reject the informed consent materials entirely, the waiting period justification is moot, acting as nothing more than an obstacle against acting upon a decision made with deference to deeply-held religious beliefs. In this way, abortion waiting-periods, too, violate our rights to free exercise.”

http://jezebel.com/satanic-temple-will- ... 1713319365" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1st Amendment hater!

[Chizzang]

Guns are mentioned right after the phrase "well regulated"

See here:

reg·u·late
verb

control or maintain the rate or speed of - so that it operates properly.
"a hormone that regulates metabolism and organ function"
synonyms: control, adjust, manage
"the flow of the river has been regulated"

Umm no. Militia is mentioned right after the phrase "well regulated". "Well regulated" in 1780's vernacular means well trained, prepared, and practiced.

Oh... I see bald one so can you define Militia from that time period as well..?
Don''t stop there

[LeadBolt]

An abortion is guaranteed to take a life. A gun is not guaranteed to take a life.

Owning and bearing arms is mentioned in the Constitution, abortion is not.

Courts have ruled that abortions are legal, making them legal, but not necessarily Constitutional.

I'm with abiding by the law until it is changed. I have no problem with someone trying to change the law. It would appear that this case is about changing the law. I'm ok with that, but unless a judge issues an emergency order or the law is changed, it should be obeyed.

At least those who oppose abortions are not trying to throw this young lady in jail, as those who support gay marriage did with the clerk in KY, who should have lost her job but not been jailed, imho.

[LeadBolt]

Umm no. Militia is mentioned right after the phrase "well regulated". "Well regulated" in 1780's vernacular means well trained, prepared, and practiced.

Oh... I see bald one so can you define Militia from that time period as well..?
Don''t stop there

I'm wondering if Satanists would be defined as a religion in the 1780's...

[Chizzang]

Oh... I see bald one so can you define Militia from that time period as well..?
Don''t stop there

I'm wondering if Satanists would be defined as a religion in the 1780's...

Only Jesus knows fir sure...

[CID1990]

Oh... I see bald one so can you define Militia from that time period as well..?
Don''t stop there

I'm wondering if Satanists would be defined as a religion in the 1780's...

well if you torch and pitchfork someone out of town for being a satanist, isnt that sort of a recognition?

[Baldy]

Umm no. Militia is mentioned right after the phrase "well regulated". "Well regulated" in 1780's vernacular means well trained, prepared, and practiced.

Oh... I see bald one so can you define Militia from that time period as well..?
Don''t stop there

Why? Are you having that difficult of a time understanding?

[Chizzang]

Oh... I see bald one so can you define Militia from that time period as well..?
Don''t stop there

Why? Are you having that difficult of a time understanding?

I'm just curious
You seem really informed on what the phrase "well Regulated" meant at that time
Do you know what Militia meant too..?

Just checking

[Baldy]

Why? Are you having that difficult of a time understanding?

I'm just curious
You seem really informed on what the phrase "well Regulated" meant at that time
Do you know what Militia meant too..?

Yes.

[CID1990]

Why? Are you having that difficult of a time understanding?

I'm just curious
You seem really informed on what the phrase "well Regulated" meant at that time
Do you know what Militia meant too..?

Just checking

one thing about militias from the earliest colonial days up until about the civil war era was that anyone could found a militia. they typically took their orders from the local or state government, but they were largely privatized.

if you had the money to raise a militia you could do so if you wished, and call it what you wanted... like "Clitz's Clitorises"

[Pwns]

I'm still trying to figure out what the point they are making is ?

It seems like complete apples-to-oranges when trying to compare it to Hobby Lobby or any other Freedom of Religion provision that has held up in court. Maybe I've overlooked one that would actually make the comparison actually make sense?

[Chizzang]

I'm just curious
You seem really informed on what the phrase "well Regulated" meant at that time
Do you know what Militia meant too..?

Just checking

one thing about militias from the earliest colonial days up until about the civil war era was that anyone could found a militia. they typically took their orders from the local or state government, but they were largely privatized.

if you had the money to raise a militia you could do so if you wished, and call it what you wanted... like "Clitz's Clitorises"

I'm always curious when Constitutional-ists go out of their way to define one key element of some document
and then completely avoid another phrase sometimes even in the same sentence...

Like "Well regulated" must be defined as something esoteric from 200 years ago
but not REGULATED as defined in Websters dictionary (virtually as as old a document)

and Militia must mean anybody who wants a gun
its fun to watch otherwise intelligent people squirm under their own wild inconsistencies
(See: JohnStwrong daily)

Its like what millions (and MILLIONS) of Christians do every day
NOTE: our favorite county clerk

Divorced is mentioned in HER BOOK the book that RULES HER LIFE a half dozen times as a SIN
but she's more than happy to pick and choose to suit herself (see Baldy)

[JoltinJoe]

Because..............SATAN!!!

Abortion is legal. How can the state deny her religious rights?

Top Missouri officials are asking that a lawsuit brought by the Satanic Temple challenging the state’s mandated 72-hour waiting period for an abortion be thrown out — but the Satanists say that’s proof they have a strong case.

The lawsuit is on behalf of a Satanic Temple member and Missouri resident using the pseudonym “Mary.”

It states that Mary, who is pregnant, went in May to Planned Parenthood with the intention of getting an abortion. She was told she had to wait 72 hours, at which point she presented a waiver from the Satanic Temple saying the waiting period violated her religious beliefs. She was still denied, prompting the lawsuit, according to Patheos.

The state currently mandates abortion providers give pregnant patients anti-abortion propaganda material on the physical characteristics of fetuses and their ability to feel pain at 22 weeks of gestation. Women must then wait 72 hours, after being given the option to see an ultrasound and hear a fetal heart beat before receiving an abortion.

This is a clear violation of the Establishment Clause which prevents the government from favoring one religion over another, or lack thereof, according to the Satanic Temple’s lawsuit.

“Women whose decision to terminate a pregnancy is informed by her deeply-held belief in Satanic principles of bodily autonomy and scientific deference should not be made to endure State-sanctioned proselytization of a conflicting religious perspective,” Greaves wrote.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/satanic ... tion-laws/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dumbest thread ever.