Paris is burning...

[CAA Flagship]

Christianity is #2 at what? Not coming at you, just trying to corral this generalized discussion that Christianity is #2. Are we talking overall? Do we not count the hospitals, charity, bodies and all the other positive items that Christianity gives us on the daily basis, or are we just talking the bad stuff.

in a word?

intolerance

and like I said, there's a LOT of daylight between the two, but almost all religions have at their core an element of "my way is right and yours is wrong"

Even benign proselytizing is acting on this core religious tenet - since Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and others dont have a major evangelical mandate, Islam and Christianity will naturally be #1 and #2 in terms of intolerance to other religions

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on where you get your information.
My sons Catholic elementary school takes their 8th graders on a short walk down the street each year to visit a Mosque. There they are greeted and given a tour and a quick lesson about their religion. The Catholic school has always offered to host a tour for their kids, even if it means gathering on a weekend, but they have always declined.
On a somewhat different note, all students of Catholic elementary and high schools that I know best (in NJ, VA, and STL) have to perform a minimum number of hours of school/parish and community service. You can't drive around STL on a weekend and not see a group performing service somewhere. I can't say for sure how well the other religions' youth measure up in this regard, but I would be shocked if it was even close.

[mrklean]

That's a rational response.



Meanwhile, France's bombings are largely symbolic. Tell me, how do you propose defeating a religious ideology?

Spoiler: show

You can't. At best, you can suppress and/or contain it.

Kkklean proposes defeating a religious ideology by dating as many strippers as he can get his hands on.

[CID1990]

Martin O'Malley is using the Paris attack to call for more gun control.

That douchebag is running hard for VP.

If he had a brain he would know Julian Castro or whatever his name is has that locked down

[BDKJMU]

Watching the village idiots on here continue to try and explain away the actions of an entire religion by saying **** like "but but but Christianity!!!" is **** comical. We get it. You hate Christianity. But your hatred is so blind that you're willing to joke about and explain away act after act after act, death after death after death, attack after attack after attack and continue to blather on that "Christians would be just as bad if if if...." 200+ deaths yesterday in Paris alone, and your position is Christianity is just as bad. Remind me again of how many deaths there have been at the hands of Christian terrorists in the past 10 years? Y'all are a bunch of **** idiots--with densedawg and douche1bag leading your charge.

Muslims need to be exterminated. Like the rats that they are.

Islam is a shitty thing, just like every religion. We can all agree it's probably the absolute worst one, with Christianity taking runner-up. But you are literally advocating genocide?

And people have a hard time understanding why people born into shitty religions, in shitty countries, leading shitty lives, having their families bombed every other month or so go down the road of becoming extremist terrorists. Every single one of you hard-liners would of done the exact same thing under the circumstances.

BS- alot of these muslim terrorists come from backgrounds ranging from middle class to wealthy (examples 9/11 hijackers, underwear bomber, Boston bombers, etc)..

[CID1990]

in a word?

intolerance

and like I said, there's a LOT of daylight between the two, but almost all religions have at their core an element of "my way is right and yours is wrong"

Even benign proselytizing is acting on this core religious tenet - since Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and others dont have a major evangelical mandate, Islam and Christianity will naturally be #1 and #2 in terms of intolerance to other religions

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on where you get your information.
My sons Catholic elementary school takes their 8th graders on a short walk down the street each year to visit a Mosque. There they are greeted and given a tour and a quick lesson about their religion. The Catholic school has always offered to host a tour for their kids, even if it means gathering on a weekend, but they have always declined.
On a somewhat different note, all students of Catholic elementary and high schools that I know best (in NJ, VA, and STL) have to perform a minimum number of hours of school/parish and community service. You can't drive around STL on a weekend and not see a group performing service somewhere. I can't say for sure how well the other religions' youth measure up in this regard, but I would be shocked if it was even close.

There are mosques that do charitable work and outreach as well, but that's not the point I'm making- although I'm am sure Christian churches do more of it as you suggest.

There is a certain amount of underlying intolerance in any religion that claims "my way is the way" and that is the point I'm trying to make. That is the single common thread in most religions when it comes to how they get along with the rest of the world.

Would the priest at your son's school preach that Islam is also OK, and Muslims also go to heaven? Or would he say that they need to accept Jesus in order to get that golden ticket?

[Ivytalk]

That douchebag is running hard for VP.

If he had a brain he would know Julian Castro or whatever his name is has that locked down

I thought Hildabeast was courting Raul Castro.

So she thinks he's the anti-Rubio, huh?

[Ibanez]

in a word?

intolerance

and like I said, there's a LOT of daylight between the two, but almost all religions have at their core an element of "my way is right and yours is wrong"

Even benign proselytizing is acting on this core religious tenet - since Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and others dont have a major evangelical mandate, Islam and Christianity will naturally be #1 and #2 in terms of intolerance to other religions

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on where you get your information.
My sons Catholic elementary school takes their 8th graders on a short walk down the street each year to visit a Mosque. There they are greeted and given a tour and a quick lesson about their religion. The Catholic school has always offered to host a tour for their kids, even if it means gathering on a weekend, but they have always declined.
On a somewhat different note, all students of Catholic elementary and high schools that I know best (in NJ, VA, and STL) have to perform a minimum number of hours of school/parish and community service. You can't drive around STL on a weekend and not see a group performing service somewhere. I can't say for sure how well the other religions' youth measure up in this regard, but I would be shocked if it was even close.

That Catholic youth group I was part of in high school used to spend it's Saturdays protesting and yelling at young women going in and out of the local abortion clinic.

Spoiler: show

Anecdotal evidence aside, I get your point.

"OK people. This Saturday, we're going to harass, embarrass and cause more emotional pain on someone who is already making a very difficult decision. PRAISE BE TO GOD!"

[CAA Flagship]

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on where you get your information.
My sons Catholic elementary school takes their 8th graders on a short walk down the street each year to visit a Mosque. There they are greeted and given a tour and a quick lesson about their religion. The Catholic school has always offered to host a tour for their kids, even if it means gathering on a weekend, but they have always declined.
On a somewhat different note, all students of Catholic elementary and high schools that I know best (in NJ, VA, and STL) have to perform a minimum number of hours of school/parish and community service. You can't drive around STL on a weekend and not see a group performing service somewhere. I can't say for sure how well the other religions' youth measure up in this regard, but I would be shocked if it was even close.

There are mosques that do charitable work and outreach as well, but that's not the point I'm making- although I'm am sure Christian churches do more of it as you suggest.

There is a certain amount of underlying intolerance in any religion that claims "my way is the way" and that is the point I'm trying to make. That is the single common thread in most religions when it comes to how they get along with the rest of the world.

Would the priest at your son's school preach that Islam is also OK, and Muslims also go to heaven? Or would he say that they need to accept Jesus in order to get that golden ticket?

OK, I agree, but that is no different than non-religious stuff. Intolerance is not in the religion, it is in people which infiltrates everything else in the world. The college you choose will be defended to death. Same with your favorite sports teams, the town or neighborhood you live in, your political party, the company you work for, certain manufacturer's products, etc. It is a human trait.

[YoUDeeMan]

Intolerance is not in the religion, it is in people which infiltrates everything else in the world. It is a human trait.

Of course intolerance is a human trait, you stupid cunt.

But religions specifically engage people to believe that their way is better. "Better" to the tune of, "We're going to Heaven to live our lives out in peaceful harmony and bliss, while those other shits are living life badly enough for them to rot in Hell and suffer unimaginably forever and ever and ever."

That's a pretty weird baseline from which to operate...and it is certainly not the equivalent of someone telling their child to stay away from Johnny because he eats too many sweets.

When you deal with a moral baseline that involves someone believing in an unavoidable judgement day that will uncompromisingly pronounce their lifestyle as more fulfilling, and literally infinitely more worthy of everything that is righteous and good, than some other schmuck, who will not simply be poor or bored until death releases them from their suffering...but will never, ever stop being subjected to every possible horrific experience, loss, pain, etc., that usually isn't a recipe for long term peaceful integration of those different cultures...especially if you add in some sort of divine directive to cleanse the Earth of the infidel that don't agree with you.

[YoUDeeMan]

My sons Catholic elementary school takes their 8th graders on a short walk down the street each year to visit a Mosque. There they are greeted and given a tour and a quick lesson about their religion. The Catholic school has always offered to host a tour for their kids, even if it means gathering on a weekend, but they have always declined.

Very telling.

[CAA Flagship]

Intolerance is not in the religion, it is in people which infiltrates everything else in the world. It is a human trait.

Of course intolerance is a human trait, you stupid cunt.

But religions specifically engage people to believe that their way is better. "Better" to the tune of, "We're going to Heaven to live our lives out in peaceful harmony and bliss, while those other shits are living life badly enough for them to rot in Hell and suffer unimaginably forever and ever and ever."

That's a pretty weird baseline from which to operate...and it is certainly not the equivalent of someone telling their child to stay away from Johnny because he eats too many sweets.

When you deal with a moral baseline that involves someone believing in an unavoidable judgement day that will uncompromisingly pronounce their lifestyle as more fulfilling, and literally infinitely more worthy of everything that is righteous and good, than some other schmuck, who will not simply be poor or bored until death releases them from their suffering...but will never, ever stop being subjected to every possible horrific experience, loss, pain, etc., that usually isn't a recipe for long term peaceful integration of those different cultures...especially if you add in some sort of divine directive to cleanse the Earth of the infidel that don't agree with you.

My point is that this is not much different than just about everything else in society.
The same thought process is well documented by Microsoft vs. Apple, McDonalds vs. Burger King, Yale vs. Harvard, ABC subdivision vs. XYZ subdivision, Democrats vs. Republicans, Allstate vs. State Farm, etc.
I don't understand why religion is singled out here as if they are doing something different than everything else around us.

[CID1990]

Of course intolerance is a human trait, you stupid cunt.

But religions specifically engage people to believe that their way is better. "Better" to the tune of, "We're going to Heaven to live our lives out in peaceful harmony and bliss, while those other shits are living life badly enough for them to rot in Hell and suffer unimaginably forever and ever and ever."

That's a pretty weird baseline from which to operate...and it is certainly not the equivalent of someone telling their child to stay away from Johnny because he eats too many sweets.

When you deal with a moral baseline that involves someone believing in an unavoidable judgement day that will uncompromisingly pronounce their lifestyle as more fulfilling, and literally infinitely more worthy of everything that is righteous and good, than some other schmuck, who will not simply be poor or bored until death releases them from their suffering...but will never, ever stop being subjected to every possible horrific experience, loss, pain, etc., that usually isn't a recipe for long term peaceful integration of those different cultures...especially if you add in some sort of divine directive to cleanse the Earth of the infidel that don't agree with you.

My point is that this is not much different than just about everything else in society.
The same thought process is well documented by Microsoft vs. Apple, McDonalds vs. Burger King, Yale vs. Harvard, ABC subdivision vs. XYZ subdivision, Democrats vs. Republicans, Allstate vs. State Farm, etc.
I don't understand why religion is singled out here as if they are doing something different than everything else around us.

theyve been with us for all of known history, and people have been dying in their name (or for their name) for that entire time

sports fans are a little different

(except in Michigan.... fvck them)

[Ibanez]

Of course intolerance is a human trait, you stupid cunt.

But religions specifically engage people to believe that their way is better. "Better" to the tune of, "We're going to Heaven to live our lives out in peaceful harmony and bliss, while those other shits are living life badly enough for them to rot in Hell and suffer unimaginably forever and ever and ever."

That's a pretty weird baseline from which to operate...and it is certainly not the equivalent of someone telling their child to stay away from Johnny because he eats too many sweets.

When you deal with a moral baseline that involves someone believing in an unavoidable judgement day that will uncompromisingly pronounce their lifestyle as more fulfilling, and literally infinitely more worthy of everything that is righteous and good, than some other schmuck, who will not simply be poor or bored until death releases them from their suffering...but will never, ever stop being subjected to every possible horrific experience, loss, pain, etc., that usually isn't a recipe for long term peaceful integration of those different cultures...especially if you add in some sort of divine directive to cleanse the Earth of the infidel that don't agree with you.

My point is that this is not much different than just about everything else in society.
The same thought process is well documented by Microsoft vs. Apple, McDonalds vs. Burger King, Yale vs. Harvard, ABC subdivision vs. XYZ subdivision, Democrats vs. Republicans, Allstate vs. State Farm, etc.
I don't understand why religion is singled out here as if they are doing something different than everything else around us.

Microsoft isn't telling you you'll go to hell for using Apple. Apple isn't beheading people because they are loyal to Mircosoft.

Religion, on the other hand, is telling you that it's, "my way or the highway."

Microsoft, Apple, McDonalds, Burger King, Yale, Harvard, Democrats, Republicans, State Farm and Allstate want your money and business but won't kill you for it.

Religion, wants your money, loyalty and your SOUL. h

There's a huge difference.

[CAA Flagship]

My point is that this is not much different than just about everything else in society.
The same thought process is well documented by Microsoft vs. Apple, McDonalds vs. Burger King, Yale vs. Harvard, ABC subdivision vs. XYZ subdivision, Democrats vs. Republicans, Allstate vs. State Farm, etc.
I don't understand why religion is singled out here as if they are doing something different than everything else around us.

Microsoft isn't telling you you'll go to hell for using Apple. Apple isn't beheading people because they are loyal to Mircosoft.

Religion, on the other hand, is telling you that it's, "my way or the highway."

Microsoft, Apple, McDonalds, Burger King, Yale, Harvard, Democrats, Republicans, State Farm and Allstate want your money and business but won't kill you for it.

Religion, wants your money, loyalty and your SOUL. h

There's a huge difference.

People exploiting religion are doing this. I never hear this in church on Sundays.

[Ibanez]

Microsoft isn't telling you you'll go to hell for using Apple. Apple isn't beheading people because they are loyal to Mircosoft.

Religion, on the other hand, is telling you that it's, "my way or the highway."

Microsoft, Apple, McDonalds, Burger King, Yale, Harvard, Democrats, Republicans, State Farm and Allstate want your money and business but won't kill you for it.

Religion, wants your money, loyalty and your SOUL. h

There's a huge difference.

People exploiting religion are doing this. I never hear this in church on Sundays.

I'm not going to get into a religious debate, because it's futile. But you have heard it.

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

That sounds like loyalty and soul to me.

And....

[CAA Flagship]

Meh, here is where some of that money went:

[YoUDeeMan]

Religion, wants your money, loyalty and your SOUL. h

There's a huge difference.

People exploiting religion are doing this. I never hear this in church on Sundays.[/quote]



JFC that is an odd comment.

Seriously...when the very premise of your religion tells you that you will die and be judged, and that those who don't pass judgement are doomed to suffer, while those who pass judgement will live happily forever with others like them, you can't say, at least with a straight face, that you aren't being exploited.

You give time, money, loyalty, and your soul to your church...and you don't know one single thing about most of the people at the top of your organization...let alone what most people are doing in your church's other locations.

[CAA Flagship]

Religion, wants your money, loyalty and your SOUL. h

There's a huge difference.

People exploiting religion are doing this. I never hear this in church on Sundays.



JFC that is an odd comment.

Seriously...when the very premise of your religion tells you that you will die and be judged, and that those who don't pass judgement are doomed to suffer, while those who pass judgement will live happily forever with others like them, you can't say, at least with a straight face, that you aren't being exploited.

You give time, money, loyalty, and your soul to your church...and you don't know one single thing about most of the people at the top of your organization...let alone what most people are doing in your church's other locations.

Nice job of quoting ^^^.

The exploitation that I was referring to has to do with killing anyone who is not aligned with your ideology.
I am free to believe in what I want. And I don't have to believe everything my religion guides me to believe. There are changes all the time in the Catholic Church. That is proof right there that they may not have everything exactly right at any given time. But if I can garnish good values from my religion, and help others in the process, I'm OK with it. Not much different than associating with a particular political party. It doesn't mean that you agree with everything they do or want to do. Why is this so hard to understand?

[Ibanez]

Meh, here is where some of that money went:

And to pay for sex crimes committed by it's employees.

[YoUDeeMan]

The exploitation that I was referring to has to do with killing anyone who is not aligned with your ideology.
I am free to believe in what I want. And I don't have to believe everything my religion guides me to believe. There are changes all the time in the Catholic Church. That is proof right there that they may not have everything exactly right at any given time. But if I can garnish good values from my religion, and help others in the process, I'm OK with it. Not much different than associating with a particular political party. It doesn't mean that you agree with everything they do or want to do. Why is this so hard to understand?

Gawdammit...that quote screw up can be directly attributed to Obama.

Ask me how: http://www.youcanmake80dollarsperhourathome.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW, your idea about people identifying with sports teams, high schools, etc. is very similar to something I wrote a long time ago about "isms." Good stuff. But you'll be hearing from my attorney for copyright violations.

Back to your quote.

If you take only what you want out of religion, then why do you need religion?

Christianity gets a little blurry because they don't claim their book was written by God himself. But, people who claim they are Muslins, but don't follow the Koran, aren't Muslins. When Allah dictates the exact words of the book, you don't get to say, "Oh, Allah must have screwed up with the part that calls for the execution of people who leave Islam. He was probably just in a bad mood that day when he wrote the laws and said we'd die if we don't follow his book, so I am living a life that I think he actually meant me to lead."

Similarly, people seem to want their freedom from the definitions by which they define themselves. Gosh, I would say I am gay, except I really only like to have sex with women. But you people are wrong, because I think I can label myself as gay, and be taken seriously, because I think people messed up the definition of what it means to be gay.

You ignore the content that you don't like in your holy books. My bet is that you, as with most others, haven't bothered to read the whole Bible/Koran/Barilla box that guides a particular religion.

Oddly enough, in a true sense, you have a freedom from religion because you don't actually follow the tenants of any particular religion. Typical of any criminal or politician, the rules just don't apply to you. But you want the safety and acceptance of a group, so there you go...your a Christian.

[BDKJMU]

France to call for effective suspension of Schengen open borders
France will call for Europe to reinstate emergency internal border controls at a summit on Friday, the Telegraph can confirm

....At the same time Francois Hollande, France’s president, is to announce that he will extend draconian emergency powers for a further three months at a landmark speech in Paris this afternoon.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rders.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


These should be the 1st steps of many...

[CAA Flagship]

Gawdammit...that quote screw up can be directly attributed to Obama.

Ask me how: http://www.youcanmake80dollarsperhourathome.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you take only what you want out of religion, then why do you need religion?

Christianity gets a little blurry because they don't claim their book was written by God himself.

The Bible probably has less "clear messages" than it does "blurry messages" that are left for interpretation.
That is how we ended up with so many different "Christian religions". More than likely, one of them is better at the interpretation than the rest. Which one? I have no idea. But I like the ceremonial aspect to Catholicism. It is more "physical" (no Sandusky), versus being 100% mental, which makes it feel more satisfying. Kind of like how shopping at a store is more reassuring to many shoppers than shopping online as far as confidence in the product goes.

But you want the safety and acceptance of a group, so there you go...your a Christian.

*you're
So yeah. The group thing is a natural comfort to many people.

But let's not get too far from the crux of this topic. CID used intolerance as the measure of religions. I was just thinking of the different religions and which ones "keep to themselves" more than others regarding coming to the aid of mankind and the acceptance of other religions. While I agree that Christianity is far less intolerant than Islam, there very well could be a few others squeezed in between. But I am watching this game from only one spot in the stadium so I'm just calling it as I see it. But I am open to the fact that a different angle could produce a different view.

[CID1990]

France to call for effective suspension of Schengen open borders
France will call for Europe to reinstate emergency internal border controls at a summit on Friday, the Telegraph can confirm

....At the same time Francois Hollande, France’s president, is to announce that he will extend draconian emergency powers for a further three months at a landmark speech in Paris this afternoon.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rders.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


These should be the 1st steps of many...

looks like the kum ba yah period is officially over in the Schengen zone

[Chizzang]

I've got to admit I'm enjoying watching Cluck try to explain to a person - that is NOT Christian by definition
But identifies with Christianity - that he's not Christian...

Dude...
I've been down this road on this forum
Most Americans that say they're Christian don't even know what's in the Bible
and a HUGE percentage who identify themselves as Christian don't believe that Jesus is coming back
and don;t think that that excludes them from being Christian

Its Awesome..!!!

[SeattleGriz]

Christianity is #2 at what? Not coming at you, just trying to corral this generalized discussion that Christianity is #2. Are we talking overall? Do we not count the hospitals, charity, bodies and all the other positive items that Christianity gives us on the daily basis, or are we just talking the bad stuff.

in a word?

intolerance

and like I said, there's a LOT of daylight between the two, but almost all religions have at their core an element of "my way is right and yours is wrong"

Even benign proselytizing is acting on this core religious tenet - since Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and others dont have a major evangelical mandate, Islam and Christianity will naturally be #1 and #2 in terms of intolerance to other religions

I wanted to come back directly and address this since you answered directly.

Great answer. I agree with you 100% on that topic.