Liberals Lying about Guns Again

[Baldy]

Say what you will, but JSO is kicking ass in this thread.

He might not be Mr. Charisma, but what he does, he does well.

eunuchdawg quit the thread just in time. Right before JSO got arrested for elder abuse.
Chizz was the smartest and quit after missing on a desperation haymaker.
Maybe kalm will jump back in and take one for the team. It's been rather entertaining.

[Ibanez]

And on the other one look at the chart below. Imagine that there is no legend to tell you when the law went into effect. No red and blue. Let's say all the bars are grey. Suppose someone said that a grey graph like that where you couldn't see the different colors showed that "Gun Control Works," that the Graph shows an effect of a gun control law and you can see from the graph when the gun control law went into effect. Do you think you could tell when it went into effect without the colors? I don't think you could. All you could see without the colors and the legend is that the number was high on the left side and low on the right side and that, while there were some ups and downs from year to year, there was generally a declining trend throughout the period represented by the graph. There's nothing deceptive about just pointing out that the graph below doesn't really show anything.

Even in grayscale with no legend, I think someone could assume that around 1998, some sort of gun law went into effect. That's just me. There is a good enough decline that I think once can assume some sort of law has taken place.



And the use of Red and Blue is painfully obvious as a political gag.

[Ibanez]

I'm not trying to argue, I think the answer to any "gun control" question lies between enforcing laws we have, greater mental health support and gun education.

[93henfan]

If it was all gray, 91 would look like the year the law went into effect. Or even 88. JSO is correct about the downward trend before the ban.

[kalm]

Your ability to twist statistics to suit your ideology is truly exceptional!

Is that all you've got?

JSO is right, especially on the second graph…if you think gun control reduces gun crimes is a good conclusion from the second graph, I have a theory that the creation of DHS in 2002 also reduced gun crime. Look at the graph for yourself! Also, global temperatures are correlated with the number of abortions in the US.

Speaking of which, I thought Roe vs. Wade was the reason cited by liberals for the fall in crime in the 1990s?

Yep. His WaPo chart clearly demonstrates that we're well below the rates of

Columbia
Paraguay
Phillipines
Panama
Brazil
Honduras
Ecuador
Jamaica.....



Which has no influence whatsoever on:

Also, the correlation coefficient is negative. That means that to the extent that one should lean one way or the other one would lean towards thinking gun homicide rates tend to go DOWN as gun ownership goes UP. You could be about 70 percent confident that's the case.

And if you do some math and look at the TOTAL homicide rate you get a negative correlation that gives you about 84 percent confidence that homicides tend to go DOWN when gun ownership rates go UP.

I really don't care as guns aren't going away here and I DO believe in the 2nd amendment.

We are a semi-violent country, with the #1 gun ownership rate in the world, and one of, if not the highest rate of gun homicides for developed nations. Sometimes, it's helpful to skip past JSO's minutia and bullshit to see the basic point.

Lots of guns does ≠ less gun homicides.

[Pwns]

If there's any "turning point" on that graph it looks like it is from '92 to '93. That's the largest drop. Aside from that and maybe a couple of other points, it looks very much like a gradual decline.

[kalm]

Say what you will, but JSO is kicking ass in this thread.

He might not be Mr. Charisma, but what he does, he does well.

eunuchdawg quit the thread just in time. Right before JSO got arrested for elder abuse.
Chizz was the smartest and quit after missing on a desperation haymaker.
Maybe kalm will jump back in and take one for the team. It's been rather entertaining.

Argue one point I've made, sucker puncher.

[kalm]

I'm not trying to argue, I think the answer to any "gun control" question lies between enforcing laws we have, greater mental health support and gun education.

Can't we use the existing laws to prevent guns from getting into the wrong hands?

[Ibanez]

If it was all gray, 91 would look like the year the law went into effect. Or even 88. JSO is correct about the downward trend before the ban.

I can see that. So, now the thing to do is see what happened in either 88 or 91 that affected gun sales.

[houndawg]

there you go again bringing qualitative analysis to an emotional argument

quantitative

I saw that, but he tries so hard and we know what he really meant to say..

[houndawg]

eunuchdawg quit the thread just in time. Right before JSO got arrested for elder abuse.
Chizz was the smartest and quit after missing on a desperation haymaker.
Maybe kalm will jump back in and take one for the team. It's been rather entertaining.

Argue one point I've made, sucker puncher.

Baldy stays up in the grandstands and watches the real players in the game. Maybe throw some beer at one if they get close enough...

[houndawg]

If there's any "turning point" on that graph it looks like it is from '92 to '93. That's the largest drop. Aside from that and maybe a couple of other points, it looks very much like a gradual decline.

Wasn't that when Bill Clinton got elected?

[houndawg]

No, but I appreciate the effort to whitewash whatever horseshit you're trying to sell at the moment with a pseudo-scientific veneer of statistics.

Statistics are like bikinis John. What they reveal is interesting, what they don't reveal is vital. The person who said that was a real scientist John and it would do you well to brush up on his work if you're going to keep trying to pass yourself off as a real scientist too.

Dude, I provided a link to the data. Just look at it. There is no way there's evidence in those data to support the idea that there's an association among countries between higher gun ownership rates and higher gun homicide rates or higher overall homicide rates.

The obvious misuse of statistics was on the part of Rattner as he pulled out eight countries with numbers that fit the idea he wanted to promote and ignored all the other ones. Seriously. Are you really defending what he did? Can you REALLY not see how deceptive it is?

You seem a bit peevish today.

[93henfan]

If there's any "turning point" on that graph it looks like it is from '92 to '93. That's the largest drop. Aside from that and maybe a couple of other points, it looks very much like a gradual decline.

Wasn't that when Bill Clinton got elected?

How many Australian broads was he banging on the side to affect their gun sales?

I was trying to work a "down under" in there but I have to run to lunch.

[houndawg]

Wasn't that when Bill Clinton got elected?

How many Australian broads was he banging on the side to affect their gun sales?

I was trying to work a "down under" in there but I have to run to lunch.

I wonder how the breakdown would look by the weapons country of origin?

And ftr, I own guns and like it that way and agree with those who say that debating gun control is purely an academic exercise. The barn is open and that horse is long gone - you take every cop in the country out of his Krispy Kreme and put him to work collecting guns and you won't collect 10% of them. There is very little on the planet that is man made that you can collect 300,000,000 of - the trick now is to get them shooting the right people. Start with a $5 bounty on banker hides.

[houndawg]

Is that all you've got?

JSO is right, especially on the second graph…if you think gun control reduces gun crimes is a good conclusion from the second graph, I have a theory that the creation of DHS in 2002 also reduced gun crime. Look at the graph for yourself! Also, global temperatures are correlated with the number of abortions in the US.

Speaking of which, I thought Roe vs. Wade was the reason cited by liberals for the fall in crime in the 1990s?

Yep. His WaPo chart clearly demonstrates that we're well below the rates of

Columbia
Paraguay
Phillipines
Panama
Brazil
Honduras
Ecuador
Jamaica.....



Which has no influence whatsoever on:

Also, the correlation coefficient is negative. That means that to the extent that one should lean one way or the other one would lean towards thinking gun homicide rates tend to go DOWN as gun ownership goes UP. You could be about 70 percent confident that's the case.

And if you do some math and look at the TOTAL homicide rate you get a negative correlation that gives you about 84 percent confidence that homicides tend to go DOWN when gun ownership rates go UP.

I really don't care as guns aren't going away here and I DO believe in the 2nd amendment.

We are a semi-violent country, with the #1 gun ownership rate in the world, and one of, if not the highest rate of gun homicides for developed nations. Sometimes, it's helpful to skip past JSO's minutia and bullshit to see the basic point.

Lots of guns does ≠ less gun homicides.

Wonder who makes the weapons they're using?

[Baldy]

Argue one point I've made, sucker puncher.

Baldy stays up in the grandstands and watches the real players in the game. Maybe throw some beer at one if they get close enough...

Says the guy punching tickets at the gate.

[Baldy]

eunuchdawg quit the thread just in time. Right before JSO got arrested for elder abuse.
Chizz was the smartest and quit after missing on a desperation haymaker.
Maybe kalm will jump back in and take one for the team. It's been rather entertaining.

Argue one point I've made, sucker puncher.

That's the problem. You're not very good at making points. However, you do like to make nebulous comments that can morph into several different meanings depending on how the conversation goes.

[kalm]

Argue one point I've made, sucker puncher.

That's the problem. You're not very good at making points. However, you do like to make nebulous comments that can morph into several different meanings depending on how the conversation goes.

Stay with me, Baldy. At some point the game is bound to slow down for you!

[D1B]

I'm not trying to argue, I think the answer to any "gun control" question lies between enforcing laws we have, greater mental health support and gun education.

In other words, bigger government.

Gun education.

[D1B]

That's the problem. You're not very good at making points. However, you do like to make nebulous comments that can morph into several different meanings depending on how the conversation goes.

Stay with me, Baldy. At some point the game is bound to slow down for you!

Boldlie

[Baldy]

That's the problem. You're not very good at making points. However, you do like to make nebulous comments that can morph into several different meanings depending on how the conversation goes.

Stay with me, Baldy. At some point the game is bound to slow down for you!

Whatever you say, Agent Smith.

[CID1990]

quantitative

I saw that, but he tries so hard and we know what he really meant to say..

No you didn't.

[D1B]

The decline in violent and gun related crime has nothing to do with laws. It's solely the result of the advent of the social media era, specifically the proliferation of cell phones.

If you dicks need more help, PM me.

BTW, I have no place to go for the holidays and was wondering if one of you could take me in for a few months. I can help out with yard work and babysitting. PM me.

[JohnStOnge]

quote]I think someone could assume that around 1998, some sort of gun law went into effect. That's just me. There is a good enough decline that I think once can assume some sort of law has taken place.[/quote]

But there was a bigger decline between 1988 and 1989 then there was between 1997 and 1998. Why would you not think the law went into effect between 1988 and 1989?