Ok the Bowl thing is officially out of hand

[AshevilleApp]

Sounds a lot like UGA. A great running game, great defense, and no QB. Thanks to a muffed punt, and a missed 31 yd FG, they were able to defeat Georgia Southern in OT.

But you suck because Sagarin ranked you 61st.

[Baldy]

What he fails to grasp is that even though his Cowboys were a very good FCS playoff team, they would get their teeth kicked in by App, Ohio, GS, or BGSU. On a similar note, he doesn't understand that even though the Slum Belch is the "worst" (CUSA is actually the worst) FBS conference, the Belch went 9-1 versus FCS teams.

I looked at the Sun Belt performance against FCS opponents and I think it's consistent with what I wrote:

The Sun Belt is equivalent to one of the stronger FCS conferences in caliber. They did not play a set of FCS teams that was strong overall. If you go with current Sagarin ratings here are the ratings among FCS schools of the FCS teams the Sun Belt played:

17
21
41
42
67
72
94
98
99
115

The average rating is 66.6, so as a sample of FCS it's slightly below the average rating for the subdivision (62). As for the McNeese thing: We will never know, but I think you're both over estimating the FBS teams you listed and under estimating the talent level McNeese had this year. As I wrote earlier, though the sample size is small, McNeese as an FCS has a 4-1 record against teams from the Sun Belt and MAC. The most recent one, a win over then Sun Belt contender Middle Tennessee State, wasn't that long ago (2012). They were an athletic team that would not have been over matched in that area. They would've had a team speed advantage over either of the two MAC teams and would've been on an even footing with Georgia Southern in that area. I didn't see App State play this year but I'm assuming the speed thing would be essentially even there too.

As an aside: According to Sagarin McNeese was better than any of the FCS teams Sun Belt teams played this year. They're rated 13th.

Anyway, as I've said before, if it's McNeese playing in the regular season and they're playing a Sun Belt or MAC team I look at that as a winnable game. They might be the underdog depending on who they're playing. But it's a winnable game if they play well and minimize mistakes.

No, the Sun Belt far out distances every FCS conference except the MVFC. The MVFC is little more than 3 1/4 points ahead of the Slum Belch, but the #2 FCS conference is almost 7 points behind the Sun Belt.

JSO and fun with numbers.

[Baldy]

Sounds a lot like UGA. A great running game, great defense, and no QB. Thanks to a muffed punt, and a missed 31 yd FG, they were able to defeat Georgia Southern in OT.

But you suck because Sagarin ranked you 61st.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Too bad we can't be McNeese in at 108.

[JohnStOnge]

No, the Sun Belt far out distances every FCS conference except the MVFC. The MVFC is little more than 3 1/4 points ahead of the Slum Belch, but the #2 FCS conference is almost 7 points behind the Sun Belt.

I think that is completely consistent with saying the Sun Belt is equivalent in caliber to one of the stronger FCS conferences. It is much more like a strong FCS conference in terms of caliber than it is like one of the mainstream FBS conferences. I think the same is true of the MAC and CUSA. They are much closer in caliber to the the better conferences in FCS than they are to the mainstream conferences of FBS; which consists of the power 5.

[kalm]

No, the Sun Belt far out distances every FCS conference except the MVFC. The MVFC is little more than 3 1/4 points ahead of the Slum Belch, but the #2 FCS conference is almost 7 points behind the Sun Belt.

I think that is completely consistent with saying the Sun Belt is equivalent in caliber to one of the stronger FCS conferences. It is much more like a strong FCS conference in terms of caliber than it is like one of the mainstream FBS conferences. I think the same is true of the MAC and CUSA. They are much closer in caliber to the the better conferences in FCS than they are to the mainstream conferences of FBS; which consists of the power 5.

And if you gave the SoCon, CAA, BSC, and SLC 22 more schollies and home games the gap disappears almost completely.

[JohnStOnge]

But you suck because Sagarin ranked you 61st.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Too bad we can't be McNeese in at 108.

McNeese is a FCS team. And where do you think Georgia Southern ranks among FBS teams? Sagarin is one system. But I am confident that that's the general area they're going to be rated in regardless of which system one uses. The top teams in the Sun Belt are much closer to the top of FCS in caliber than they are to the top of FBS.

For example: Let's say Georgia Southern played McNeese. There would be a whole lot more doubt about the outcome of that game than there would be if Georgia Southern were playing Alabama or Clemson. And if Georgia Southern were playing North Dakota State they'd be the underdog. Same thing with App State or Arkansas State too. It'd be a WAY bigger upset for any of those teams to beat an Alabama or a Clemson than it would be for a McNeese State to beat any of them. And North Dakota State would be favored to beat any of them.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW I do understand the difference between the Power 5 and the other 5. The power 5 consists of programs that actually belong in FBS. The other 5 consists primarily of programs that don't really belong in FBS but insist on being there.

[Baldy]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Too bad we can't be McNeese in at 108.

McNeese is a FCS team. And where do you think Georgia Southern ranks among FBS teams? Sagarin is one system. But I am confident that that's the general area they're going to be rated in regardless of which system one uses. The top teams in the Sun Belt are much closer to the top of FCS in caliber than they are to the top of FBS.

For example: Let's say Georgia Southern played McNeese. There would be a whole lot more doubt about the outcome of that game than there would be if Georgia Southern were playing Alabama or Clemson. And if Georgia Southern were playing North Dakota State they'd be the underdog. Same thing with App State or Arkansas State too. It'd be a WAY bigger upset for any of those teams to beat an Alabama or a Clemson than it would be for a McNeese State to beat any of them. And North Dakota State would be favored to beat any of them.

We'll use your Sagarin ratings to refute your own argument.

Clemson is 59 spots higher in the Sagarin than GS. GS is 45 spots higher than McNeese. The difference there is 14 spots. That really doesn't mean much, especially when you take into consideration the team who is 7 spots ahead of GS lost to GS by 31 points (when we were an 8 pt underdog). Statistically speaking, a McNease upset of GS would be almost as monumental as a GS upset of Clemson.

The Sun Belt is a crappy FBS conference, but we are also 14-2 our first 2 years in that conference. Needless to say, we're better than the conference, but aside from the MVFC outlier, it is a much better conference than anything the FCS can put up against it.

Instead of whining about the Sun Belt or CUSA or the MAC, worry about fixing the FCS. Sagarin says the Sun Belt is about 24 points behind the #1 SEC, but the SWAC, MEAC, and NEC are all 25+ points behind the MVFC.

[Baldy]

BTW I do understand the difference between the Power 5 and the other 5. The power 5 consists of programs that actually belong in FBS. The other 5 consists primarily of programs that don't really belong in FBS but insist on being there.

According to Sagarin, Georgia Southern finished ahead of about 15-20 P5 teams. Do the teams ranked below GS not belong in the P5 now?

[Skjellyfetti]

And if you gave the SoCon, CAA, BSC, and SLC 22 more schollies and home games the gap disappears almost completely.

Most of the SoCon, CAA, BSC, and SLC can't afford 22 more schollies.

Should we build them better facilities, pay their coaching staff more, increase their recruiting budget, etc. for the sake of this hypothetical as well?

[BDKJMU]

7 NY Eve evening/NY day games. Not a single close game. Closest game was 16 points. 6 of the 7 were blowouts. Have to be the most lopsided NY Eve/NY Day games ever.
Semifinal Orange: Clemson 37, OK 17
Semifinal Cotton: Bama 38, Mich State 0

Fiesta: Ohio State 44, Notre Dame 28
Rose: Stanford 45, Iowa 16 (I see it was 35-0 at the half)
Sugar Ol Miss 48, Ok St 20
Outback: Tenn 45, Northwestern 6
Citrus: Michigan 41, Florida 7

Amazing how come they couldn't come up with any good matchups resulting in close games..

[kalm]

And if you gave the SoCon, CAA, BSC, and SLC 22 more schollies and home games the gap disappears almost completely.

Most of the SoCon, CAA, BSC, and SLC can't afford 22 more schollies.

Should we build them better facilities, pay their coaching staff more, increase their recruiting budget, etc. for the sake of this hypothetical as well?

How many of the Sun Belt schools can afford them?

So you think that if the playing field were leveled the mighty Sun Belt would have the same success?

[Baldy]

Most of the SoCon, CAA, BSC, and SLC can't afford 22 more schollies.

Should we build them better facilities, pay their coaching staff more, increase their recruiting budget, etc. for the sake of this hypothetical as well?

How many of the Sun Belt schools can afford them?

So you think that if the playing field were leveled the mighty Sun Belt would have the same success?

If the playing field were leveled, JSO would have a stroke.

[AshevilleApp]

7 NY Eve evening/NY day games. Not a single close game. Closest game was 16 points. 6 of the 7 were blowouts. Have to be the most lopsided NY Eve/NY Day games ever.
Semifinal Orange: Clemson 37, OK 17
Semifinal Cotton: Bama 38, Mich State 0

Fiesta: Ohio State 44, Notre Dame 28
Rose: Stanford 45, Iowa 16 (I see it was 35-0 at the half)
Sugar Ol Miss 48, Ok St 20
Outback: Tenn 45, Northwestern 6
Citrus: Michigan 41, Florida 7

Amazing how come they couldn't come up with any good matchups resulting in close games..

Yup D-1 is terrible. Take into consideration the results of the last two days, and the results of the FCS Semifinals, and the product should be banned.

[AshevilleApp]

Most of the SoCon, CAA, BSC, and SLC can't afford 22 more schollies.

Should we build them better facilities, pay their coaching staff more, increase their recruiting budget, etc. for the sake of this hypothetical as well?

How many of the Sun Belt schools can afford them?

So you think that if the playing field were leveled the mighty Sun Belt would have the same success?

Same success as what?

[kalm]

How many of the Sun Belt schools can afford them?

So you think that if the playing field were leveled the mighty Sun Belt would have the same success?

Same success as what?

Baldy and JSO were arguing how the top of FCS matched up with the SBC. So how would the SBC (or for that matter, MAC and CUSA) do against FCS power conferences if the schollies were the same and both sides had home games?

I think JSO's point that the SBC isn't really much ahead talent wise is legit.

[kalm]

Yikes! That answer above was a pile of shit.

Would the SBC have the same winning % against FCS teams if schollies were equal and home games were split?

[Baldy]

Yikes! That answer above was a pile of shit.

Would the SBC have the same winning % against FCS teams if schollies were equal and home games were split?

That would actually mean that those FCS teams were FBS.

[kalm]

Yikes! That answer above was a pile of shit.

Would the SBC have the same winning % against FCS teams if schollies were equal and home games were split?

That would actually mean that those FCS teams were FBS.

No shit?

[Baldy]

That would actually mean that those FCS teams were FBS.

No shit?

Yeah, its called a non sequitur.

[kalm]

No shit?

Yeah, its called a non sequitur.

Ok.

[AshevilleApp]

Yikes! That answer above was a pile of ****.

Would the SBC have the same winning % against FCS teams if schollies were equal and home games were split?

Likely not. But that would mean that the FCS teams invested in a move to FBS. In that event, they would certainly be competitive at the G5 level. At least that is my guess.

[JohnStOnge]

Clemson is 59 spots higher in the Sagarin than GS. GS is 45 spots higher than McNeese. The difference there is 14 spots.

I wasn't looking at the number of spots. I'm looking at what the spread would be based on the actual ratings. Clemson, by Sagarin as it is as I write this, is rated 24.39 points higher than Georgia Southern while Georgia Southern is rated 12.63 points higher than McNeese. That translates into the chances of Georgia Southern beating Clemson being about 1 chance in 16 and the chances of McNeese beating Georgia Southern being about 1 chance in 4. Thus the Statement that it would be a lot more of a shock to see something like Georgia Southern being Clemson than it would be to see something like McNeese beating Georgia Southern.

I mean, Georgia State beat Georgia Southern and Georgia State is rated a little below McNeese. So I don't see how it could be a shock to see something like McNeese beating Georgia Southern.

I also think that what McNeese had in terms of talent this year is just a lot closer to what Georgia Southern had in terms of talent than what Georgia Southern had in terms of talent was to what Clemson has in terms of talent. And I think what you'll see over the next few years in terms of players going to the NFL is going to be consistent with that. The numbers of players who end up in the NFL from the 2015 McNeese and Georgia Southern teams are going to be a lot more similar to each other than the numbers of players who end up in the NFL from the 2015 Georgia Southern and Clemson teams will be.

[Mvemjsunpx]

Yikes! That answer above was a pile of shit.

Would the SBC have the same winning % against FCS teams if schollies were equal and home games were split?

Who cares how good the Sun Belt is? It's irrelevant how good the teams in that conference are because they can't possibly win anything of worth no matter how well they play, anyway.

[JohnStOnge]

Who cares how good the Sun Belt is? It's irrelevant how good the teams in that conference are because they can't possibly win anything of worth no matter how well they play, anyway.

You know, that may be theoretically true. Like for instance a Sun Belt team could schedule Alabama as its Big 5 opponent, win that game, and go undefeated and still not win anything of worth. No shot at a national title anyway.

But as a practical matter that's moot because the Sun Belt has never had any team that even approached top 25 FBS in caliber. Without even looking my thought is the league has never had a team finish as high as 50th among I-A/FBS schools in the Sagarin ratings. And that's saying something because FCS North Dakota State finished rated 32nd among all D-I teams last year. And BTW the highest rated Sun Belt team at the end of last year was Georgia Southern at 63 among all D-! teams.