What is it with the Cruz "Theocracy" thing?

[JohnStOnge]

and in the users manual that is our Constitution the answer is - it is NOT aligned with any religion
but you wouldn't answer the question which doesn't surprise me

and sure:
a school can read the Koran or Satanic Verses if they want to...

The Constitution is not aligned with any religion nor does it express any hostility to any religion. And, importantly, the actual language of the Establishment Clause is very narrow. The only thing it prohibits is the United States Congress enacting legislation with respect to the establishment of religion. Plus there is a historical context in which the Congress appropriated funds to hire a chaplain then held Christian Church services in the House chamber shortly after the First Amendment was ratified. Given that, it's pretty ridiculous to interpret the First Amendment as prohibiting government from...for instance...favoring or appear to be favoring a given religion. Neither the language of the First Amendment or the documented behavior of the Congress of the time supports that view.

A public school teacher could start class each day by saying, "If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you will burn in Hell" and that would not be violating the First Amendment. Not unless you think her saying that constitutes legislation respecting the establishment of religion passed by, at the least, SOME legislative body.

I have to say that it amazes me that people who can read and speak English can read the Establishment clause and not see that it doesn't prohibit anything but a particular type of legislation by the United States Congress. It's right there in black and white. What's going on now is like the speed limit signs say 65 and you're driving 64 and you get a ticket because, "well, it SAYS 65 but it really means 53."

[JohnStOnge]

1954 and 1956 have significance to the USA in regards to the word GOD and our National image
prior to that - not so much...

I don't know what constitutes "much" but "In God We Trust" first appeared on US coins in 1864.

[JohnStOnge]

1). The Declaration also invoked "the laws of nature" which came before "nature's God" so we are clearly an animistic/pagan nation...if you subscribe to the constitution.

I really don't think the order makes a difference. In addition to a reference to "Natures God" it premises the existence of "unalienable rights" on the existence of a "Creator." No Creator, no unalienable rights.

2). That same constitution also guaranteed the rights of the Dearborn Michigan school district to begin the day with a bow to Mecca and call to Allah if they choose. You of course are fine with that...

I don't know why people even try that on me. Surely you virtually know me well enough by now to know I'm going to say, "Of course I am." But I'm also fine with the idea of non Muslim parents going to the school board and using the political process to make them stop. AND fine with them saying "we're going to have Christian prayers instead." The Constitution doesn't really prohibit any of that. It does not say government at any level can't favor a particular religion. Just says the national legislative body can't pass a certain type of law.

BTW, I am also fine with the idea of something like a Muslim restaurant owner refusing to serve non Muslims, serve women, etc. Someone asked me that question the other day and it kind of amazes me that people who know me don't know ahead of time that I'm going to say I'm fine with that. When I say I think people on both sides of the buy/sell transaction should be free to do business with or not do business with whoever they do or do not want to do business with that's what I mean as long as the "seller" isn't government.

[CID1990]

None.



The answer to that question could be a long one. For now, suffice to say that the religious beliefs of the people of the day certainly played a role in what they thought of as right and wrong. And the founding document of the nation, the Declaration of Independence, invoked a "Creator" as having "endowed" rights. The Constitution is not the founding document of the nation. It's the Standard Operating Procedures.



Zero.



Once.

5) and under what context?



Now, I have a question for you. Here is the Establishment Clause:



How do you parse that into saying that, for instance, a local public school system cannot as an informal practice read a Christian prayer over the intercom every morning?

If you're intellectually honest, you can't.

I like how you answered #2
By referencing The Declaration of Independence
and then admitting that the Constitution is THE OPERATING PROCEDURES

and in the users manual that is our Constitution the answer is - it is NOT aligned with any religion
but you wouldn't answer the question which doesn't surprise me

and sure:
a school can read the Koran or Satanic Verses if they want to...

i wish people would get as bent out of shape over the absence of the quadratic equation or the law of the conservation of matter in schools as they do over the absence (or presence) of ritual conversations with ghosts

[Ibanez]

1954 and 1956 have significance to the USA in regards to the word GOD and our National image
prior to that - not so much...

I don't know what constitutes "much" but "In God We Trust" first appeared on US coins in 1864.

Yeah and why is that? Another case of a religious leader pushing his agenda.

[Chizzang]

I don't know what constitutes "much" but "In God We Trust" first appeared on US coins in 1864.

Yeah and why is that? Another case of a religious leader pushing his agenda.

[kalm]

Yeah and why is that? Another case of a religious leader pushing his agenda.

[JohnStOnge]

I still haven't seen anything anybody posted to suggest that Cruz wants Theocracy. Just a "listen to his speeches" and a link to an article where the author thinks that him saying he's a Christian first and an American second means he wants Theocracy.

[houndawg]

1) What Church or Religion is mentioned in the constitution?

None.

2) How is the Constitution aligned with any religious texts or Religious beliefs?

The answer to that question could be a long one. For now, suffice to say that the religious beliefs of the people of the day certainly played a role in what they thought of as right and wrong. And the founding document of the nation, the Declaration of Independence, invoked a "Creator" as having "endowed" rights. The Constitution is not the founding document of the nation. It's the Standard Operating Procedures.

3) How many times is the word GOD used in the constitution?

Zero.

4) The word RELIGIOUS is used how many times in the original document?

Once.

5) and under what context?

no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Now, I have a question for you. Here is the Establishment Clause:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

How do you parse that into saying that, for instance, a local public school system cannot as an informal practice read a Christian prayer over the intercom every morning?

If you're intellectually honest, you can't.

Because the fact that its broadcast by the school makes it official, not informal.


They can pray at recess or lunch without inflicting their superstitious nonsense on those that don't want to hear it.

[houndawg]

I still haven't seen anything anybody posted to suggest that Cruz wants Theocracy. Just a "listen to his speeches" and a link to an article where the author thinks that him saying he's a Christian first and an American second means he wants Theocracy.

It means he puts his religion ahead of the constituents he is supposed to put first.

A bit surprised your still whimpering about this subject. Nobody wants to hear your evangelical nonsense, John.

[Ibanez]

I still haven't seen anything anybody posted to suggest that Cruz wants Theocracy. Just a "listen to his speeches" and a link to an article where the author thinks that him saying he's a Christian first and an American second means he wants Theocracy.

I'll say it a third time: Dominion-ism.

[kalm]

I still haven't seen anything anybody posted to suggest that Cruz wants Theocracy. Just a "listen to his speeches" and a link to an article where the author thinks that him saying he's a Christian first and an American second means he wants Theocracy.

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, who says he ties every move he makes, every breath he takes, to God, began his Iowa caucus victory speech on Feb.1 with “To God be the glory.”

http://www.religionnews.com/2016/01/31/ ... s-liberty/

[kalm]

‘Christian’ Ted Cruz celebrates Resurrection of Christ by calling for killing of innocent civilians

“But we need a president who will bring the full force and fury of the United States of America to defeating ISIS,” Cruz continued. “Shannon, I’ll tell you, if I’m president, we will utterly and completely destroy ISIS. We will carpet bomb them into oblivion, using overwhelming airpower. We will arm the Kurds on the ground. We will use our forces to defeat them and we won’t put our forces in combat with the rules of engagement that Obama is so fond of that tie their arms behind their back that make it impossible for them to fight and win. That is wrong and that is immoral.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/christi ... civilians/

[Ibanez]

JSO, another thing for you: Ted Cruz's father, alongside his vocal supporters have all said he's been "Anointed." Look it up. These people think God has anointed him to become POTUS and to...well you won't like it. Sounds like socialism.

[Ivytalk]

I will be the most theocratic poster on this board on November 9, 2016, as in "Thank God it's over!"

[JohnStOnge]

I still haven't seen anything anybody posted to suggest that Cruz wants Theocracy. Just a "listen to his speeches" and a link to an article where the author thinks that him saying he's a Christian first and an American second means he wants Theocracy.

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, who says he ties every move he makes, every breath he takes, to God, began his Iowa caucus victory speech on Feb.1 with “To God be the glory.”

http://www.religionnews.com/2016/01/31/ ... s-liberty/

None of that says he wants a Theocracy.

[dbackjon]

It's one of the left's bugaboos.

Mass gun confiscations are more likely to happen than theocracy. In other words, not going to happen.

Except we see theocracy in action every day. like the anti-gay measures in Georgia (thankfully veto'd) and in NC - all laws driven by Religion. that is theocracy in action.


So your analogy fails.

[dbackjon]

JSO, another thing for you: Ted Cruz's father, alongside his vocal supporters have all said he's been "Anointed." Look it up. These people think God has anointed him to become POTUS and to...well you won't like it. Sounds like socialism.

Who also advocates for the implementation of Levitical Law, which makes Sharia Law look progressive.

And yes, he hangs out with guys (like his dad) that want gays executed.

[BDKJMU]

JSO, another thing for you: Ted Cruz's father, alongside his vocal supporters have all said he's been "Anointed." Look it up. These people think God has anointed him to become POTUS and to...well you won't like it. Sounds like socialism.

Who also advocates for the implementation of Levitical Law, which makes Sharia Law look progressive.

And yes, he hangs out with guys (like his dad) that want gays executed.

Link?

[JohnStOnge]

I'll help you guys out. Here is an article on something Ted Cruz is reported to have said:

http://www.freewoodpost.com/2016/02/18/ ... stitution/

Here is the reported quote from Ted Cruz:

I’m sure you’ve heard the pundits say that we’re not a Christian nation. Oh, they’re mistaken, my friends. They are severely misguided. Our nation is a Christian nation and when I’m president I’ll make sure of it, because the Bible will be the Constitution. I know what the First Amendment says, and I DON’T CARE! We’ve strayed from Christian principles so far that now we have black presidents and homosexual marriages happening in every state of our dear union. It’s deplorable. It’s unAmerican. However, we can change all that, and it’s as simple as voting for me. Will you please do that, folks. Will you please vote for me. It’s what George Washington would want. In fact, it’s what Jesus would want.

I must admit that I'm a little skeptical about the quote if for no other reason it includes that "black presidents" comment and I've heard nothing about that. Kind of hard to believe Cruz could've said something like that and it wouldn't have made big news. But IF that's a true quote you've got me.

[dbackjon]

Who also advocates for the implementation of Levitical Law, which makes Sharia Law look progressive.

And yes, he hangs out with guys (like his dad) that want gays executed.

Link?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opini ... .html?_r=0

Ted Cruz, and his dad, are regulars at conventions hosted by Swanson.

[dbackjon]

Hypocrite Ted Cruz Attacks My Family While Declaring His Family Off-limits
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cyd-zeigl ... 48868.html

For most of his political career Sen. Ted Cruz has made my family a target of his attacks. Now he declares his family off-limits.


I’m shocked.


Cruz has met every advancement of the legal recognition of my marriage with bigotry and criticism. He has spent years attacking my husband. He has spent speech after speech demeaning who we are as a family and attacking our equality. He has called our marriage a “crisis” that afflicts the United States.


Now that he’s running for President, Cruz wants to claim his family is off-limits for scrutiny and attacks. He puts his children in advertisements and features his wife speaking on his behalf, yet somehow when scrutiny takes aim at the family members he has used as props, he cries foul.

[dbackjon]

Ted Cruz embraces apocalyptic preachers and anti-gay militants

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topofthe ... story.html

One prominent end times-believing preacher who is active in the Cruz campaign is Rafael Bienvenido Cruz, who just happens to be the candidate’s father. The Rev. Cruz subscribes to Dominionist theology, a school of thought that says Genesis gives true men of faith the right to seize control of government and run the country by biblical mandates.

[BDKJMU]

Link?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opini ... .html?_r=0

Ted Cruz, and his dad, are regulars at conventions hosted by Swanson.

Fail. You claimed Cruz's dad said he wants gays executed. But the link you gave doesn't have Cruz's dad as saying that, but only attending the same conference of someone who did say that...

[kalm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opini ... .html?_r=0

Ted Cruz, and his dad, are regulars at conventions hosted by Swanson.

Fail. You claimed Cruz's dad said he wants gays executed. But the link you gave doesn't have Cruz's dad as saying that, but only attending the same conference of someone who did say that...

Without looking into it, no sane person would attend a conference featuring someone like that.

Fail.